Touring - Personal safety while touring

A posting mentioned on another thread that 'FWIW I've traveled all over the US, Mexico, South America, SE Asia, and Eastern Europe, and have never once felt the need for a gun.'

What other ways or approaches have people used and found to be effective?

Women have to take extra precautions, of course. Here's what I did during a 2-month European tour.

-- Find a place to camp well before dark. Go do something else and return to set up camp just as the sun is setting. Leave at sunup.
-- Camp where you can't be seen, well hidden from the road.
-- Make sure no one sees you entering your campsite.
-- Or camp at an actual campground or stay at a hostel.
-- Look confident on the bike.
-- Always have your money, passport, return plane ticket, and IDs on your person.

But best of all, as a woman traveling alone, I very often asked people if I could camp in their backyard or their field. In Germany I was received most gratiously. Very often people would insist that I sleep IN their houses. They would give me supper, breakfast, and food for the day! They would introduce me to their family and friends and take me to parties. It was really quite amazing. One family kept me for a whole week and took me on several exercusions.

I have traveled all over the world by bike and as a backpacker without feeling threatened or scared. My experience has been that most people are friendly and helpful.

One thing I try to do that may or may not help in this regard is to always seem confident and sure of myself even when I am not feeling that way 100%. My theory [no way to test it really] is that the bad folks are looking for an easy target and as long as you aren't fitting that profile they'll leave you alone.

Niles:
The only weapon I have taken on bike tours around the world by myself is my positive attitude about people. Strangers have consistently responded to and reinforced this attitude by their kindness and thoughtfulness to a stranger in their midst. In many languages the word for enemy is the same as that for stranger historically. The benign and familiar nature of the bike is non-threatening to most people. The bike is my communication bridge. For example:

An Ecuadoran Qechua speaking elder offered me the shelter of her thatched mud hut high in the Altiplano during a severe thunder storm with torrential rain. The only phrase common to us was < Venga Aqui! > [Come Here] that she spoke to me as I cycled past in the rain. I waited out the storm drinking tea and sharing bread and photos with what seemed like five generations of her family in that hut. A most memorable shared experience all without words.

In case you think that I live in some fantasy world that is fact free I offer the following: I am a retired peace officer well versed in guns and weapons for my whole life. Guns only provide the illusion that one controls a situation and hides ones fear behind the gun. On tour I leave my car and my gun at home. It is unnecessary and actually detrimental to the best touring experiences in my opinion.

Hey Niles. I have been a silent observer of the last few threads about guns and personal safety and I feel it's time to comment. First of all, I have no problem with handguns. In fact, I am a licensed concealed carry holder in my state, and I've been an avid hiker/backpacker/cyclist for over 15 years. I used to carry a small pistol in the backcountry on backpacking trips, but I never had any use to use a gun (thankfully). Now as my knees are not what they used to be, I do more cycling/touring than hiking. I really just don't think you will find any use for a gun on tour. All the negatives have been posted (the extra weight, the laws between states etc.). Again, nothing against guns, I'm a big supporter of the 2nd Ammendment, but in all honesty, you would be more likely to have a confrontation at your local mall than you will on tour. People for the most part are very curious and gracious.

My advice is to enjoy your tour and leave the gun at home.

I'd have to say mainly common sense. If you're in an area, you can usually get a feeling whether you can linger a while, or whether you should just keep moving. I've passed up certain campgrounds because of a bad feeling.

If you can try to be with a group of other cyclists or tourists that helps. When I've had a few days to myself on a cycling tour, I'll pick boat cruises or bus tours or something so that I'm with a whole group of other tourists (usually families etc.) and I sort of hover near a nice looking family, and chat with people, etc.

When I've been on my own at night on a cycling tour, I will pick hostels rather than camping (my personal preference). I'll get a bed in a female dorm room, and get to know some of the ladies. But also keep to myself and keep out of anything controversial.

I don't carry much of anything valuable or expensive on a tour. Most of my stuff is pretty inexpensive and very well used. If stolen, it wouldn't get much at resale. Oh yes, I also pack my panniers so that my most "used" and smelly clothes are right on top just in case someone wants to take a peak at what's inside.

I always try to act like I know exactly where I'm going, and if I feel it is necessary, in conversation I'll mention meeting up with friends a bit later in the day and things like that. I do that cycling locally too when people I meet at gas stations seem just a teensy bit too interested in what I'm doing.

And around here I carry a small cannister of pepper spray. I wouldn't carry it into any other countries, or even other provinces, because I don't know the legality of it there, but there are a lot of loose farm dogs around here, especially at night, and I figure there's a faint possibility it might come in handy sometime.

Just stuff like that.


And I have to say that of all the touring and cycling I've done, I have rarely come across situations where I felt in danger. There have been maybe a handful of such situations that put me on guard, and some that were a little creepy, but nothing came of them. In fact, the most dangerous situations I've been in have occurred a few blocks from where I lived ... not halfway around the world.

Thanks to all for the helpful and informative replies.:)

(Others most welcomed as well.)

In case you think that I live in some fantasy world that is fact free I offer the following: I am a retired peace officer well versed in guns and weapons for my whole life. Guns only provide the illusion that one controls a situation and hides ones fear behind the gun. On tour I leave my car and my gun at home. It is unnecessary and actually detrimental to the best touring experiences in my opinion.

Well said!!!

I cringe when guns and bike touring are mentioned in the same breath. When our cycling friends outside the U.S. read about gun packing Americans, I wonder what they think? :)

When I go touring, I meet such nice people, I get warm and fuzzy and it always restores my faith in humanity...Kumbaya!

I agree about meeting great people. I have met some wonderful people while riding around on a bike. I think they somehow don't feel threatened and I also think that they really would like to join you.

As for personal safety I have never felt frightened riding in Canada and the US but I do tend to stay away from large cities. (this might not be a fair comparision because I'm a really big guy).

On the topic of guns, I think it might be important for those of you in the US to realize just how weird, strange and frightning it is, to most of the rest of the world, to even consider packing a gun. I'm 52 years old and I have never even held a hand gun. I don't mean to be insulting to my US friends, but it is not a common concept.

When I go touring, I meet such nice people, I get warm and fuzzy and it always restores my faith in humanity...Kumbaya!
+1
On a tour last year, I camped at a remote trailer park that had a small tent area. The trailers were falling apart, junk strewn everywhere, and most of the "residents" were wearing ragged clothes, dirty, many had long unkempt beards. I was very uneasy.

I quickly found everyone there I met to be gracious and kind. They were curious about my trip and wanted to make sure I had everything I needed. We had long conversation around a fire well into the night.
My initial bigoted reaction made me feel incredibly stupid.
Sometimes, touring restores my faith in myself.

On the one hand, if you start out with that list at the top of the page, you can't really carry handguns/weapons through most of the named areas anyway, so why worry about it. On the other hand happy stories of how "I met only nice people" are pretty much worthless. Even heavily traveled warriors, rarely have an opportunity for self-defense. Possibly the greatest name in 20th C handgun self-defense, Jeff Cooper, only used a handgun in self defense (or any other weapon) on 3 occasions. Of those, 2 were in wartime, and I simply can't recall the third, it may have been wartime also. He was literally looking for trouble. The probability of being attacked is pretty low, so the reason to go armed in most civilized places is not primarily the likelihood of being attacked, it's more a way of being in the world.

For some, self-defense is an absolute, they just can't accept the idea of ever being at the mercy of others. It's not about percentages for people like that, it's something between duty and self- respect. I think that people who operate in many dangerous outdoor sports have a different make-up. It's all percentages, perfect storms, avalanches, holds that break off, caves that flood etc... When things go wrong you can't just shoot your way out of it. Seems like a different mindset.

In addition to facing trouble frontally with guns, or whatever, one has to keep the tactics flexible. We can be like a commando, to use an antique term. Not looking for trouble, employing the element of surprise, cover of darkness, mobility, camouflage, discretion, etc... In fact if you want to meet Ted Bundy, or Gacy, just go looking for someone who needs help or is offering it. But tactically meeting people and leaving an impression on several people in a community isn't a bad thing either. Being armed is just one of the tactics you can employ.

"On the topic of guns, I think it might be important for those of you in the US to realize just how weird, strange and frightning it is, to most of the rest of the world, to even consider packing a gun. I'm 52 years old and I have never even held a hand gun. I don't mean to be insulting to my US friends, but it is not a common concept."

That is true, in fact imigration can tend to dilute gun rights, since often even if the immigrant comes from a nasty place they are conditioned not to like guns by condiitons of unequal access etc... My dad is from Northern Ireland, and is rabily anti-gun. But ironically NI had a very high proportion of Judicial Permits, what do you do when so many people are on death lists and many are/were in serious danger. Most semi civilized countries exist somewhere on a three point range of reaction: 1) everything is wonderful, no paranoia about their neighbours owning guns. That was the Toronto, Canada I grew up in. I had guns at all the urban schools I went to nobody called SWAT, I once got an award for marksmanship at school from the Lieutenant Governor; 2) we are paranoid about our neighbours, but they are pretty much harmless, kinda like Canada today. Pretty much the only way you are getting a handgun for self-defence is if your neighbours are bears; 3) Your neighbours are dangerous often enough everyone wants a gun.

"Saturday night just ain't that special
Freedom to be afraid is all you want
Yes if you don't want to be next
You've got a family to protect
9 out of 10, you've got a friend, you've got a gun."

Gil Scott Heron

IMO, one can't have an opinion on guns unless one has held and/or shot one. It's equatable to a fear of snakes. Almost always a "knee-jerk reaction. Or, like having an opinion on bike touring without ever having ridden a bike.
Yes I'm a gun owner. No.I don't carry one on Tour.

Richard

I think one of the safety advantages of bike touring is that we don't quite fit into societal concepts of what you can do on a bike. A lot of people just don't get it, and that makes you somewhat invisible to them. Or local. Also, you're likely fit, and they are likely not. The main danger point remains "them" in their cars (malicious or not), and you ridng that crumbling white line.



Guns on bikes discussions can be so charmingly egocentric. Aren't they always about protecting me, me, me?

But, even gun-carriers who are well-trained to distinguish true threats make tragic mistakes. The five year old pointing the toy gun. The guy offering a wrench. The mentally disturbed, but harmless. And that's not counting accidents.

Before you pack, ask yourself, who am I to decide who should live and die? What training do I have to know who means harm and who does not?

Maybe the gun would save your life, or even someone else's. There are mean people in the world. Maybe it would kill you, by accident or in someone else's hands. Maybe it would kill someone else, by accident or in your hands.

It seems a lot more productive to speculate on whether there is a 35 foot Coachmen's Aurora Full-Wall Slide-Out Recreational Vehicle with your name on the front right bumper.

Bang, bang.

IMO, one can't have an opinion on guns unless one has held and/or shot one.
Richard
And/or is at risk of being shot by one.

IMO, one can't have an opinion on guns unless one has held and/or shot one. It's equatable to a fear of snakes. Almost always a "knee-jerk reaction. Or, like having an opinion on bike touring without ever having ridden a bike.
Yes I'm a gun owner. No.I don't carry one on Tour.

Richard

Hmmm...I've never had an abortion, but I can have an opinion on it...(ducks and runs for cover) :D

A posting mentioned on another thread that 'FWIW I've traveled all over the US, Mexico, South America, SE Asia, and Eastern Europe, and have never once felt the need for a gun.'

What other ways or approaches have people used and found to be effective?

I ran into a 64 year old retired WOMAN touring across the USA last summer by HERSELF! I asked her what she did for personal protection and she said for humans none; but for animals she had pepper spray, though that could be used on a human but a lot of times it doesn't work well. And she also said she never once felt threatened by anyone; and she stayed in public parks, campgrounds, school and church yards, farmers fields, truck stops, motels etc.

And she also said the same thing that many of you said, most people were extremily friendly and kind to her, inviting her to stay at their places giving her either a spot on the lawn or a bed in the house along with meals and showers in exchange for nothing more then telling them of her adventure thus far.

The only place I've felt in need of protection is in my home city of Manchester. I would think twice about touring in certain areas, and would think about protection if I were to tour those areas, but more than likely it would be a pepper spray/course in martial arts type type prep.

About the only time I'd feel the desire to carry a gun with me would be if I was camping in bear/moose territory. How effective a handgun would be, I don;t know. I come from the UK, and except for some criminals, guns aren;t a big part of the scene.

"who am I to decide who should live and die?"

As you have probably heard, the conventional answer to that question is that when shooting for self-defense you are not trying to kill. What you are entitled to do is stop the life threatening behaviour, etc... Shooting as a means of doing that is never legitimately a mater of deciding whether the aggressor deserves to die. Of course, if shot, the aggressor may die, but that is beside the point. The victim's responsibility is to assess the personal danger they are in, and to choose the least escalating way of stopping the attack.

A firearm that shot a weak cartridge with poisoned bullets, the kind of thing that would not be able to stop an attack, but would very likely kill the aggressor at a latter time, that might well not be a legal response to the attack. In some jurisdictions, knives are treated that way. It is perceived that they are extremely lethal but not good for self defense. Whether that is correct or not, one can see the wheels tuning. Weak pistols may fall into the same category though I doubt anyone has been charged on that basis

Typically the victim is the expert because the law may be written so that the key issues are whether the victim perceived themselves to be in danger, and used the most sensible non-escalating means to stop the attack. What is called for is the victim's judgment relative to the situation, not the individual. Whether or not cliffs are a well meaning natural feature or not, could probably be argued at length by philosophers. Whether or not one has currently fallen from one is well within individual expertise.

Handguns are pretty reasonable tools for killing/hunting either bears or moose. For larger bears, or moose, a handgun is not powerful enough to be a stopping gun. It's more than worth the try, but if you are attacked, handguns are marginal in effect compared to rifles for stopping large and motivated animals.

Why would anyone need to kill a moose while camping?? First of all, if it is not moose season, you'd be going to jail for a very long time for hunting out of season. Secondly, you'd be killing the moose without a hunting licence which would land you in jail. Thirdly, I could be wrong, but I don't think handguns are considered hunting equipment. And fourthly, moose aren't dangerous!

Bears, on the other hand, if you can prove that one was attacking, might be a different story.

Why would anyone need to kill a moose while camping?? First of all, if it is not moose season, you'd be going to jail for a very long time for hunting out of season. Secondly, you'd be killing the moose without a hunting licence which would land you in jail. Thirdly, I could be wrong, but I don't think handguns are considered hunting equipment. And fourthly, moose aren't dangerous!

Bears, on the other hand, if you can prove that one was attacking, might be a different story.

Wasn't there a news story about a herd of moose that raided a small Alaskin town on a killing rampage eating all the town folk? The news story read: "The Moose Who Came to Dine".

Err...maybe that was a Japanese horror flick.

Wasn't there a news story about a herd of moose that raided a small Alaskin town on a killing rampage eating all the town folk? The news story read: "The Moose Who Came to Dine".

Err...maybe that was a Japanese horror flick.

:roflmao:

Ummmmm .... yeah. :D


Oh, but wait ..... a moose did kill someone near where I live a couple months ago. It came right in the front window of the vehicle ... when the vehicle hit it ... and squashed the driver.

:roflmao:

Ummmmm .... yeah. :D


Oh, but wait ..... a moose did kill someone near where I live a couple months ago. It came right in the front window of the vehicle ... when the vehicle hit it ... and squashed the driver.

I read about that in a newspaper report here in Fort Wayne; the weird thing about the report was that it showed the picture of the car with a completly smashed out windshield, and reported that the moose survived but gave no details about the driver or their condition!!! The news reporter was more concerned over the well being of the moose and didn't care at all about the person driving. Your report of it was the first I heard that the person died!!!!!!!

My friend in Jasper is a more affraid of moose than bears. He's been charged by moose more often than by bears.

Some personnal safety tips:

- Get a rear view mirror
- Be careful with high speed wobble
- Watch for soft shoulders (or dirt roads)
- Learn what to do in bear country and apply

Gotta laugh about attack moose, but in some areas wolves may be a problem? I carry pepper-spray all the time on the bike. 1 bad dog bite will do that to you. Next Tuesday I depart Pittsburgh Pa for Washington D.C. Amtrack brings me home. I am looking forward to it but with a little apprehension. Thanks for all the pointers, all of you. Machka, I like the idea of packing dirty smelly clothes on top.

I'm pretty sure he was killed, at least the news reports I heard seemed to indicate that. But I've been looking for the story and can't find it ... so perhaps he didn't.

My friend in Jasper is a more affraid of moose than bears. He's been charged by moose more often than by bears.

Some personnal safety tips:

- Get a rear view mirror
- Be careful with high speed wobble
- Watch for soft shoulders (or dirt roads)
- Learn what to do in bear country and apply


Moose or elk? Moose generally don't frequent areas of heavy population. They tend to be loners off in the wilderness. Although they will wander into populated areas sometime. I saw one this year next to a golf course at the edge of town, but the other one I saw was way out in the middle of nowhere.

Elk, however, are all over the place in Jasper and Banff, and they can be agressive, especially during rutting season or when they have calves.


And as for wolves, I guess the wolf population has increased to the point that they are becoming a nuisance. I've lived in, and have visited, wolf areas for most of my life, but this past winter was the first time I've ever laid eyes on a wolf ... actually a pair of them.

But don't forget about cougars! I saw one of those on a ride in 2005.

I'm not worried about moose, I think the period of concern is pretty much limited to the rut. But the big dumb animals can get you if they want to. Deer can easily, kill particularly the elk, red deer, sika clan who are particularly well armed, so don't bug them.

Driving through the great parks opens you up to a lot of incredible behaviour by tourists. I have seen a pile of people out of the car taking pictures of a family of Grizzlies just off the side of the road. That was on the drive from Calgary to Jasper. I rarely make these parks so I imagine the locals are pretty gobsmacked on a regular basis.

I kinda like discussing this stuff, and I am open to views on either side of my own. Overall though I am not much worried when I am out and about. As a reality check, I am always interested in how competent people are in first aid, whether they carry info on allergies, or blood type with them, airway devices and trauma kits, etc... If you're just not that concerned then maybe you aren't really as worried about an attack or generalized bad stuff happening as you think.

OK, I re-read part of that... Hitting moose while driving is a real problem for motorists. They are higher, darker, and much heavier than deer, and tend to enter the compartment. In my NB world we see quite a few of them. Many provincial roads are well designed and have good gavelwork to control swampy land, unfortunately this can result in suculent lillies right next to your lane. But that's a wildlife viewing oportunity for any cyclists who haven't been carried off by the province's dogs.

Moose or elk?

Moose. Not in town either. He got charged across a lake once during winter and made it behind a tree, saving his ass. He works for park Canada and last time I talked to him (a few years ago), he had seen maybe ten times as many bears than moose and got charged only once by a bear, about 10 times by moose.

And fourthly, moose aren't dangerous!While not as immediately dangerous as bears or wolves, moose should be regarded similar to bulls, they are generally docile but they are still 1000+ pound animals. Getting charged by either can lead to grave injury or death.


Moose generally don't frequent areas of heavy population.Here in Anchorage (pop 260k) about a hundred or so moose live year round. The number doubles or triples during winter time as they come down from the mountains.

And to me, a sidearm is a tool with considerations like any other (most any tool is dangerous in the hands of the skilled and determined). To me, it would be like considering carrying along a twenty foot lightning rod in case I get caught in an electrical storm or anti-venom serum in case I get bit by a rattler. If I were heading into cannibal country on a tour though . . .

A friend of mine was attacked while riding.

Someone hit her with his car, breaking her leg, and then attempted to drag her into the car with him. She managed to fight him off and he fled the scene.

Could she have employed a handgun in this situation? Possibly. I don't see it being a horrible idea to carry one, though, assuming it's carried properly.

When she rides alone now, she tucks all her hair up under her helmet and hopes that passing drivers don't notice that she's female.

It's awesome that she keeps riding, though.

Why would anyone need to kill a moose while camping?? First of all, if it is not moose season, you'd be going to jail for a very long time for hunting out of season. Secondly, you'd be killing the moose without a hunting licence which would land you in jail. Thirdly, I could be wrong, but I don't think handguns are considered hunting equipment. And fourthly, moose aren't dangerous!

Bears, on the other hand, if you can prove that one was attacking, might be a different story.


I'm only going off what Guy Grieve wrote in a book I recently read about his recent sojurn in Alaska.

Here's what he says:

"I remembered Dom (a native American friend) telling me that moose killed more men than bears in Alasks, and that if I ever found myself unlucky enough to be chased by a moose which I didn;t want to shoot I should run round a tree. The theory was the moose would get tired, bored and disorientated. It sounded easy but if you slipped or it caught up with you, it would kill you quickly by pummeling you into the ground with its great piston-like legs"

He also says it is legal to kill them if your life is endangered by one. I don;t know, I'm no expert on US animal welfare issues.

Here's the first thing I got about Moose on Google, though.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/living/moose.htm

Cut to "Moose and People"

Also, you seem to have kind of misunderstood my post. I was postulating that the only place I would consider taking a firearm was in an area where I was in danger of attack. I think the only time that would be a consideration was if I was camping in bear/moose areas in Canada or the US.
I had a friend from here in the UK who was doing just that in Canada a few years ago when, going a short distance from his camp to take a leak, walked right between a bear and its cubs. He had presence of mind, and walked slowly backwards towards his camp. Luckily for him, the bear collected up her cubs and ambled off into the bushes. It makes you realise, though, how vulnerable you can be.
And of course, a handgun, while not "hunting equipment", is portable and would at least give you some chance if charged by bear/moose.

Of course it's highly unlikely that I will be in that situation, so it's all pretty theorectical anyway. But you never know.

As a reality check, I am always interested in how competent people are in first aid, whether they carry info on allergies, or blood type with them, airway devices and trauma kits, etc... If you're just not that concerned then maybe you aren't really as worried about an attack or generalized bad stuff happening as you think.


Burns, broken bones, hypothermia, concussions...all must be way more likely than attacks by people and bears. Good point.

Though I suppose if you had a grizzly gnawing on your scalp you might be better off firing a few shots with your puny pistol as opposed to whacking it with a limp ace bandage.

Are there any weight wenies who can recommend a good titanium Glock with the power to drop a kodiak? Or does steel just feel more real and give a smoother ride? Does Rivendell make anything in this category? Maybe a Colt with lugs for that retro look?

Peter, your editing of my "who am I" misplaced it in a self-defense context. I don't necessarily disagree that killing an attacker may be legally justified. But, I was trying to make the point that anyone who carries a gun is a bigger threat than someone who does not. Even we holier-than-them bicylists. Something I've heard cops say is "I worry about shooting the wrong person." I've never heard any gun advocate on this list ever express even the slightest tiny doubt that they might shoot someone or something that they oughtn't.

It's like listening to Dick Cheney trying to talk you into having a few beers and then shooting some quail.

It's like listening to Dick Cheney trying to talk you into having a few beers and then shooting some quail.

Shooting some Quail? That's just toooo funny.

I'm pretty sure he was killed, at least the news reports I heard seemed to indicate that. But I've been looking for the story and can't find it ... so perhaps he didn't.

I thought the story was odd because there was no mention whatsoever about the driver or whether or not the person lived-NOTHING! The moose was so important that the person was forgotten entirely.

When I think of personal safety while touring I think of
- Helmet
- Safety vest and lights
- Safe riding, get off the road if conditions are unsafe
- Good hydration and sun protection
- Not camping under gum trees (they drop branches)
- Washing hands
- Camping in camp sites or in the bush, not in parking/rest areas
- Keeping brakes and chain and tyres in good nick
- Carrying water, 1st aid kit and mobile phone (even if coverage isn't great).

Just found this, on an older thread:

People who've not been in many places in the U.S., and who have formed their opinions of American crime exclusively from the movies or their European state-controlled media, tend to be ignorant of another fact about American crime: it is highly region-dependent. Outside of several urban areas, crime in the U.S. is very low. 80% of American counties, for example, have no murders at all in a given year. Rates of violent crime generally in these areas are among the lowest ever recorded in the developed world, year after year. Britain, by contrast, is much more urbanized than the U.S., and so urban crime problems tend to be much more prevalent national problems.


This seems like a very useful message. "The U.S." is a broad concept, and it can be misleading. It seems more useful, and more in the interests of safety, to narrow the concept. Some counties and other sub-areas in the U.S. are dangerous; others are way on the other side of the spectrum.

***
The thread touches on some other interesting points as well,

http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=28038

Also, you seem to have kind of misunderstood my post. I was postulating that the only place I would consider taking a firearm was in an area where I was in danger of attack. I think the only time that would be a consideration was if I was camping in bear/moose areas in Canada or the US.
I had a friend from here in the UK who was doing just that in Canada a few years ago when, going a short distance from his camp to take a leak, walked right between a bear and its cubs. He had presence of mind, and walked slowly backwards towards his camp. Luckily for him, the bear collected up her cubs and ambled off into the bushes. It makes you realise, though, how vulnerable you can be.
And of course, a handgun, while not "hunting equipment", is portable and would at least give you some chance if charged by bear/moose.

Of course it's highly unlikely that I will be in that situation, so it's all pretty theorectical anyway. But you never know.

The thing is, I highly doubt you could get into Canada with a handgun. You're not allowed to just carry them around here, and even if you did transport one, there are very strict regulations regarding that. If were walked between a bear and her cubs, or were being charged by a moose, you would not have the time to unlock the "secure locking device" load the gun, and fire.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/default_e.asp

Instead, your friend did exactly what he should have done in that situation. 9 times out of 10 wildlife will leave you alone if you respect the wildlife ... and get out of their way.

When I think of personal safety while touring I think of
- Helmet
- Safety vest and lights
- Safe riding, get off the road if conditions are unsafe
- Good hydration and sun protection
- Not camping under gum trees (they drop branches)
- Washing hands
- Camping in camp sites or in the bush, not in parking/rest areas
- Keeping brakes and chain and tyres in good nick
- Carrying water, 1st aid kit and mobile phone (even if coverage isn't great).


VERY good points!! I try to do all of that .... and in addition to the 1st aid kit, I maintain my First Aid Certification. I just got certified again with my Standard First Aid with Level B CPR a few weeks ago. I would strongly recommend ALL cycletourists get their First Aid certification.

Thankfully, so far, I have never had to use anything I know on another person ....... but I've used it on myself! When I crashed up in the middle of nowhere near Lake Eacham (Queensland) and had to cycle 100 miles to civilization with a badly torn up knee ... I used a lot of my First Aid knowledge and most of my first aid kit to do it.

The thing is, I highly doubt you could get into Canada with a handgun. You're not allowed to just carry them around here, and even if you did transport one, there are very strict regulations regarding that. If were walked between a bear and her cubs, or were being charged by a moose, you would not have the time to unlock the "secure locking device" load the gun, and fire.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/default_e.asp

Instead, your friend did exactly what he should have done in that situation. 9 times out of 10 wildlife will leave you alone if you respect the wildlife ... and get out of their way.


Fair enough.

As an asside, do I remember seeing in "Bowling for Columbine" that firearm ownership (I guess in the form of hunting rifles) is actually greater in Canada than in the US? I got the impression that hunting is a pretty popular thing over there. Is that right?

On the topic of guns, I think it might be important for those of you in the US to realize just how weird, strange and frightning it is, to most of the rest of the world, to even consider packing a gun. I'm 52 years old and I have never even held a hand gun. I don't mean to be insulting to my US friends, but it is not a common concept.

Hey, some of us in the US feel the same way. I've lived in New York City all my life, and carrying a gun there is just about totally illegal. There's no way you're getting a permit. So we don't carry guns. Those of us who are law-abiding citizens, anyway.

When I was in my late teens and just beginning to travel around the country, it took me quite a while to get over my reaction to the somewhat casual carrying and displaying of handguns I encountered, especially in the Western states. Your typical New Yorker's reaction to the sight of a handgun is to completely freak out and assume that something really screwed up is going on.

Frankly, the only reason I would carry a gun on tour is for shooting food if I was touring in a remote enough area and then it's be a .22 for small game only. It would likely be a backpackers single shot rifle at that.

I got the impression that hunting is a pretty popular thing over there. Is that right?

Well, yes ... how else do you get food to eat? But only in season, only with hunting rifles (and similar) or bows, and only with the necessary licences and registrations, or you could be fined or jailed.

VERY good points!! I try to do all of that .... and in addition to the 1st aid kit, I maintain my First Aid Certification. I just got certified again with my Standard First Aid with Level B CPR a few weeks ago. I would strongly recommend ALL cycletourists get their First Aid certification.

Thankfully, so far, I have never had to use anything I know on another person ....... but I've used it on myself! When I crashed up in the middle of nowhere near Lake Eacham (Queensland) and had to cycle 100 miles to civilization with a badly torn up knee ... I used a lot of my First Aid knowledge and most of my first aid kit to do it.

In addition to getting your first aid certification, I would also recommend taking a bicycle maintenance class (if you don't already know how to do lots of roadside repairs)

Taking care of your health and your bicycle will go a long way to ensuring your personal safety while touring.

[QUOTE=Krink] I've never heard any gun advocate on this list ever express even the slightest tiny doubt that they might shoot someone or something that they oughtn't.

QUOTE]

I did in the gun pro/con thread that got moved to P&R. IIRC I said you had to be careful it wasnt just loud kids trying to act tough or a real threat to your life.

Coy Boy

When I think of personal safety while touring I think of
- Helmet
- Safety vest and lights
- Safe riding, get off the road if conditions are unsafe
- Good hydration and sun protection
- Not camping under gum trees (they drop branches)
- Washing hands
- Camping in camp sites or in the bush, not in parking/rest areas
- Keeping brakes and chain and tyres in good nick
- Carrying water, 1st aid kit and mobile phone (even if coverage isn't great).

- Condoms
- Cuervo in those little tour-sized bottles
- An accordion. Scares away the evil-hearted.

When i embark on my tour i plan to carry 2 tools which would fend off any would be attackers that dont have a gun, hatchet (i can by the way throw hatchets, but thats not the point) and an 8 inch fixed blade knife. Being 6 foot 2 i would be fairly intimidating with a hatchet and a knife in hand. If i ever came across anyone who that wouldnt scare off, i would be SOL gun or not.

I ran into a 64 year old retired WOMAN touring across the USA last summer by HERSELF! I asked her what she did for personal protection and she said for humans none; but for animals she had pepper spray, though that could be used on a human but a lot of times it doesn't work well. And she also said she never once felt threatened by anyone; and she stayed in public parks, campgrounds, school and church yards, farmers fields, truck stops, motels etc.

And she also said the same thing that many of you said, most people were extremily friendly and kind to her, inviting her to stay at their places giving her either a spot on the lawn or a bed in the house along with meals and showers in exchange for nothing more then telling them of her adventure thus far.

not trying to descriminate against age but a 64 year old woman might be safer than say a 25 yr old one. Sounds like she had a lot of spunk though.

Well, yes ... how else do you get food to eat?


Grow it? ;)

Grow it? ;)

I'm slow...but not that slow...LOL of course one advantage of riding through the county side. see a nice garden. Stop and ask for a nice ripe mater. If they dont oblige, pull the hog leg on them...