Folding Bikes - Impressions: Bike Friday Tikit vs Brompton

Background:
I own a Brompton M3L (3 speed hub, all steel, traditional handlebars) which I purchased about a month ago, and typically ride a) from home on the Upper West side to work downtown on the Hudson River bikeway and b) on weeknds in Central Park. I'd say I've ridden it over 100 miles and am very happy with it.

Today I visited the Times Up! Folding Bike Festival in NYC. David from bfold.com was there with a couple Tikits, and I talked to him, rode it, and compared it folded and covered to my own Brompton.

The Tikit is a very nice ride. I like my Brompton ride; what seemed at first "twitchy" compared to a full size bike, I now think of as manuverable & responsive. But the Tikit feels smoother. More like a full size. It is just better.

I didn't really understand the comments about Brompton brakes until that ride. I think the Brompton brakes are satisfactory. But the ones on the Tikit are waaay better: more powerful and easier to modulate as well.

Weight seemed about the same. Folded size is definitely both smaller and more regular (i.e. "square" with no parts sticking out) on the Brompton, but it's not a huge difference. If I was on the subway, I'd rather have the Brompton. It's just a lot less likely to catch on people. But now that I have the bike, my subway ridership has fallen off a cliff...I've even purchased gear to ride in the rain, I like riding so much...

I don't think either is better; they're different.

If I was getting a folder mostly for taking up little space and throwing in my car, and I lived in a not-always-flat area, I'd probably go for the Tikit. It's not much bigger than a Brompton, and the ride is nicer, and there are 8 gears. It feels like they've put a lot of thought into the design, down to the details. An example of this that isn't immediately apparent is the integrated bell. It's brass and has a beautiful ring. They didn't have to do that. And yet, they must know (as any good cyclist does) that a bell is really a must have for a bike used in cities - so why not integrate it.

If simplicity, reliability and friendliness with multi-mode transportation were relatively more important - I think the Brompton still wins. The Brompton design has been around for years now. So though some of the bits seem less nice than they feel like they should be for the price, they work. With the Tikit, you're taking a bit of a risk that the design and componentry will hold up over time. For exampe, apparently Bike Friday's SatRDay folding recumbent was recalled a couple of times for problems. I don't mean in any way to smear Bike Friday; I certainly don't know the details. I'm just pointing out that with any new design, you give up some certainty reliability for the improvements.

One thing I expected to be a clear advantage for the Tikit, that I don't think is, was the ability to roll the bike folded. Rolling a Brompton folded isn't all that serviceable. I mean, good enough for pushing around at slow speeds - say in a store - but not for any appreciable distance. I expected the Tikit to excel in this regard, with its built in handle and ability to roll on the front wheel. However, as David pointed out, and I confirmed for myself, the bike's weight folded does not center over the wheel, so you need to exert arm strength to keep it balanced while rolling it around. Absolutely do-able...just not as nice as I'd hoped.

Your best bet is to try both. If NYC is not inconvenient for you, bfold.com would be a good place to do it. David (who I only met today) seemed like a great guy to spend $1K plus with. I bought my Brompton from a place that was ok, just, I think, a little less personal.

In any event, I think both are great bikes. I'd like to own both.

Thanks for the review. Were you able to fold it as quickly as is shown on the videos? How did the bike feel when folded, that is, any folded parts you think are susceptible to quick wearing (I'm particularly wondering about the internal cabling)? Was the seatpost firm, that is did it seem like it would collapse easily if you went over bumpy terrain?

More even-handed intelligent reviews like this please!
Nice one - a joy to read - thanks for taking the time to write it.

It's a quick fold, quicker than Brompton. As fast as the videos? No, but then I wasn't really trying to impress anyone.

Seatpost seemed firm.

Folded parts - that's a good question I don't have an answer to. It does seem like a less tidy package folded up, but I can't be more specific than that.

Great review. Thanks.

Good review. The Bike Friday recumbent was too expensive for what you bought.

The Tiket would stick out like a sore thumb on a crowded bus or train and that's what these bikes were built in the first place. Since the OP no longer uses transit, he would be better off with a larger size folder like the Tiket or Dahon.

Just bringing some visual effects to the thread. Very nice review by the way, thank you.

http://www.aewallis.co.uk/images/t6.jpg

http://www.cycle-heaven.co.uk/graphics/Bromlifestylembe.jpg


http://www.bikefriday.com/sites/default/files/images/blueblacktikit.preview.jpg

http://www.bikefriday.com/sites/default/files/images/2hanna_standing_folded_tikit,bus_station.preview.jpg

14R

They have the same wheel size, right?

Pictures, in this case, don't tell much of the story -- except that the Tikit looks like it was made in Frankenstein's laboratory. ;)

I prefer some simple stats, specifically folded size. A folded Tikit is barely smaller than a BF New World Tourist, actually folds bigger than some 20" bikes, and is almost 3 times larger than a folded Brommie:

Bike Friday NWT, 20" wheels = 12" x 33" x 34" (13,464 cu in)
Bike Friday Tikit, 16" wheels = 15" x 24" x 35" (12,600 cu in)
Dahon Speed P8, 20" wheels = 13" x 25" x 32" (10,400 cu in)
Downtube NS, 20" wheels = 12" x 23" x 33" (9,108 cu in)
Downtube Mini, 16" wheels = 10" x 20" x 29" (5,800 cu in)
Brompton = 9.8" x 21" x 22" (4,527 cu in)

I'm sure the Tikit rides great. Maybe if it fits under your desk at work you could use it for regular commuting -- but if you have less than 10 miles to ride, why not get a tour-worthy NWT, a 6-speed Brommie or even a $400 Dahon instead? You would have to be swilling some major Bike Friday Kool-Aide made from Eugene, OR tap water to think of it as a viable multi-mode commuter bike.

Pictures, in this case, don't tell much of the story -- except that the Tikit looks like it was made in Frankenstein's laboratory. ;)

I prefer some simple stats, specifically folded size. A folded Tikit is barely smaller than a BF New World Tourist, actually folds bigger than some 20" bikes, and is almost 3 times larger than a folded Brommie:

Bike Friday NWT, 20" wheels = 12" x 33" x 34" (13,464 cu in)
Bike Friday Tikit, 16" wheels = 15" x 24" x 35" (12,600 cu in)
Dahon Speed P8, 20" wheels = 13" x 25" x 32" (10,400 cu in)
Downtube NS, 20" wheels = 12" x 23" x 33" (9,108 cu in)
Downtube Mini, 16" wheels = 10" x 20" x 29" (5,800 cu in)
Brompton = 9.8" x 21" x 22" (4,527 cu in)

I'm sure the Tikit rides great. Maybe if it fits under your desk at work you could use it for regular commuting -- but if you have less than 10 miles to ride, why not get a tour-worthy NWT, a 6-speed Brommie or even a $400 Dahon instead? You would have to be swilling some major Bike Friday Kool-Aide made from Eugene, OR tap water to think of it as a viable multi-mode commuter bike.
As an NS owner, I can tell you that the fold is a *lot* bigger than 12X23X33, even with the stem turned to fold over the bike.

I was there, too, but didn't get to ride the Tikit. It has lower end components, is a bit on the heavy side but looked thoroughly eccentric (which I like). The bent rails give it the appearance of having been in a bad accident. But in a controlled way. David at bfold is a great guy, and will take care of you after you buy the bike from him, so if you are looking for one, he's your Tikit.

The only long distance commuter that folded as fast on demo that day was the Swift, which isn't in this list, but doesn't really fold; it mostly just changes from a horizontal bike to a vertical bike. It can really only be used as a car/closet bike/big suitcase travel bike. The Swift designer was there to demo it, and seemed super nice.

The Tikit looked big next to my folded Birdy (11X22X31), but sure folded faster. I can fold my Birdy in 10s if all goes well. (I was able to fold other people's Birdies faster because they had the huge and heavy chainguard on them that keeps the chain from falling off.)

The Brompton demo took a touch longer than 10s. So, there is another trade off among multi-mode commuters: speed of folding versus folded size.

I went with my wife to Bike Friday HQ in Eugene, OR and she took a Tikit (as well as a couple other models of BF) for a spin. She was very impressed with the Tikit. She said " I want one of these" when she finished her ride. I was impressed by the build quality and the personal touch every Bike Friday owner receives from the folks in Eugene. They are a very customer oriented bunch of people. I must admit I am a little biased as I own a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket.

I rode the BART train today which was packed because the A's and Warriors were playing at the Coliseum. As I entered the train with Brompton in hand, I thought "If the folded package were any bigger, I'd get death stares all around." I'll take folded size over speed any day for this type of commuting.

I went down to Eugene and drank the kool aid -- the ride and gearing on the Tikit were just amazing. As for the fold: after trying it 2 or 3 times, I could fold it as fast as the video. It really is a 5 second fold. I could unfold it in about :10, but I'm sure that gets faster with practice. No knobs, no quick releases. It just folds.

I did my best to bounce around as I was riding, and never felt like the seatpost release was going to come undone on its own. The only scenario I could see triggering an inadvertent fold is if you got rear-ended while stopped -- and if that happens, you have far bigger things to worry about than your bike folding.

I looked at how the cabling worked folded and unfolded -- it's very secure both ways. The only time anything dangles is while you're in the process of folding and unfolding.

I ordered one on the spot -- it should be in my hands by the end of the month. I'll be using it as my "buzz around town" bike.

To be fair: I've seen the Bromptons in person, but never got the chance to ride one. Looking at the gearing, the Tikit seemed better suited to Portland's hills, and when it came down to a smaller folded size vs. an easy speedy fold, I opted for the quick fold. (Our light rail trains have hooks for full-size bikes, so you certainly won't get any nasty looks bringing a folder of any size along.) And since BF is just down the road (well, 80 minutes down the road in a car), I can get the Tikit back to the factory for service, should it ever need it.

-Aaron Weiss
Portland, Oregon

Thanks for the detailed and specific responses, Aaron. As you may know, our light rail in the Bay Area is not as sophisticated when it comes to accommodating bikes, and I think it's a well established *fact* that Brompton gearing can be pretty tragic for anything other than flat terrain. Please continue to update us about the tikit when you get it and as you ride it more.

Interesting thread, and I appreciate reading more about the tikit from people who have tried it out.

One thing, though, which I think I've brought up before in other threads. It is of some interest to know what folder will fold up the fastest. For practical purposes, though, I don't see that an extra 5 to 10 seconds to fold a Brompton would be worth even mentioning. If you're cutting it that close, maybe you needed to leave the house a couple of minutes earlier. :)

Which is not a criticism of the tikit. Obviously, the fold is faster and easier than the older BF designs, and that's what's important.

For practical purposes, though, I don't see that an extra 5 to 10 seconds to fold a Brompton would be worth even mentioning. If you're cutting it that close, maybe you needed to leave the house a couple of minutes earlier. :)

And if you leave your house sufficiently early, you could just ride your bike all the way to work. And you won't even need a folder. :)

I agree, I don't think speed of fold is that important - or rather, it's really more a question of complexity. Tikit is faster, but Brompton is plenty fast. In fact, I kinda doubt any serious folder is really "slow". It's really more about how compact it gets.

Also agree that the Tikit is very likely better for hills. My Brompton is a 3 speed and I'd probably be ok with 2, I rarely use top gear. It's not the kind of bike I want to bomb around on. I tried a 6 speed but found it fiddly, with two levers required.

I would be curious to hear from a Brompton owner in a place like SF. Do you have a 6 speed? Reduced gearing?

Also agree that the Tikit looks like Frankenstein. The Brompton is really a quite pretty bike. I've attached a crappy cell picture of mine...

There's a picture of the Tikit on a bus but I doubt you'll be able to bring that inside the cabin of most city buses during rush hour. I'm sure you can but if the bus is crowded, I'm sure you'll get dirty looks. It woudn't surprise me if the driver gets upset or does not allow you to boad.

However, trains are a different story. You shouldn't have any trouble getting this bike on a train because there's more room and there should be a handicap spot you might be able to take advantage of. If a conductor makes a fuss about the bike, I'm sure a Brompton or any folder would have trouble too.

I agree, I don't think speed of fold is that important - or rather, it's really more a question of complexity. Tikit is faster, but Brompton is plenty fast. In fact, I kinda doubt any serious folder is really "slow". It's really more about how compact it gets.

Also agree that the Tikit is very likely better for hills. My Brompton is a 3 speed and I'd probably be ok with 2, I rarely use top gear. It's not the kind of bike I want to bomb around on. I tried a 6 speed but found it fiddly, with two levers required.

I would be curious to hear from a Brompton owner in a place like SF. Do you have a 6 speed? Reduced gearing?

Also agree that the Tikit looks like Frankenstein. The Brompton is really a quite pretty bike. I've attached a crappy cell picture of mine...
Even with a 6ML Brommie, I will not recommend hill climbing. Tacoma possesses some of the longest and steepest hills I have seen. Beat SF ones hands down. I climb those hills easily with my Birdy 9. Brommie is good for short flat commute.

I agree, I don't think speed of fold is that important - or rather, it's really more a question of complexity. Tikit is faster, but Brompton is plenty fast. In fact, I kinda doubt any serious folder is really "slow". It's really more about how compact it gets.

I don't know. I think the speed issue is really more an issue of ease than it is of speed. I mean, an extra 20 seconds usually isn't going to make you miss the bus/train, but it sure can get on your nerves after the 1000th time.


There's a picture of the Tikit on a bus but I doubt you'll be able to bring that inside the cabin of most city buses during rush hour. I'm sure you can but if the bus is crowded, I'm sure you'll get dirty looks. It woudn't surprise me if the driver gets upset or does not allow you to boad.

However, trains are a different story. You shouldn't have any trouble getting this bike on a train because there's more room and there should be a handicap spot you might be able to take advantage of. If a conductor makes a fuss about the bike, I'm sure a Brompton or any folder would have trouble too.
Well, you shouldn't have trouble getting any 20" wheeled bike on a train, folder or not. If you ask me, the fact that you need a folding bike to board some trains is more of a formality than anything else.

Well, you shouldn't have trouble getting any 20" wheeled bike on a train, folder or not. If you ask me, the fact that you need a folding bike to board some trains is more of a formality than anything else.
OK, someone obviously has never taken a busy subway to get to work in the morning....

OK, someone obviously has never taken a busy subway to get to work in the morning....
1. I commuted on the NYC subway for several years.
2. Regardless of whether or not you can convince people to make room for your bike, there's no rule that says you can't take a nonfolding bike on the subway.
3. The context of the conversation was commuter railroads (the kind with conductors). Commuter railroads are generally more spacious and have fewer stops than the subway, which would suggest that bike policies for commuter railroads should be at least as liberal as they are for the subway. However, for some reason most commuter railroads in the Northeast have bans on nonfolding bikes.

I take my Downtube on the LIRR a few times a month, usually folded. However, if there is another bike in my car I generally find that we can arrange our bikes more efficiently if I unfold mine than if I leave it folded.

It should go without saying that the actual folding feature of a folding bike doesn't actually make the bike smaller. It just changes the shape. In my opinion most commuter rails can more efficiently carry the unfolded shape than the folded shape. Nevertheless, the folded bike is still better than a full sized unfolded bike and, thus, the folding requirement imposed by many commuter rails is merely a formality whose real benefit is to encourage smaller bikes in general.

I mean, think about it, why should two 26" Dahon folding bikes placed unfolded side by side be any different than if they were folded in half and placed one in front of the other? It's the same thing. In fact in my experience the unfolded arrangement is better because you can point them up whereas putting one folded bike on top of the other is unstable. Of course, this requires the two bike owners to work together, which the commuter rail arrangement probably facilitates better than the subway.

In any case, this is the world that we live in, so it's good that the tikit folds, even if the folded size isn't that practical.

1. I commuted on the NYC subway for several years.
2. Regardless of whether or not you can convince people to make room for your bike, there's no rule that says you can't take a nonfolding bike on the subway.


New York City has one of the most liberal rules regarding bikes on board trains. These changes were made on behalf of Transportation Alternatives so you're lucky to have them. Try to bring your non-folder in Path, SEPTA or the Chicago El during rush hour and you'll get kicked off fast! There are many others that will not allow non-folders during rush hour so this is nothing new.

I used to commute regularly on the NJ Metro. While I didn't see tons of folding bikes, I saw tons of people that got on with ridiculous amounts of baggage that equaled more than 1 or 2 folding bikes. Of course someone is going to complain, but as long as there are people in the world, people are going to find something to complain about.. It's human nature. While I wouldn't bring a full size bike onto the train, which by the way is illegal during rush hour, I wouldn't hesitate to take a 20" folder. It's both legal and plenty small enough. And I have been on the train when there were wall to wall people, so I know what that is like.
You may all think I must be rude or something, but if someone wants to complain about my perfectly legal folding bike, that's their problem and I'm not going to worry about it. They are probably complaining because their boss treated them like #$*& or because they had a hard day. These are things I cannot control. These things are also not my fault and I am not going to let them effect how I choose to live my life.
Sorry for the rant,
Juan

I take the NY subway whenever the ride home from work is too long ( I work all over the city), my legs are too tired, or the weather is too bad. Whenever I have had to take the subway with my BF , I have folded it so that I don't take up too much real estate. A long bike, be it a folder or not, in the way of commuters is far more of an inconvenience than a folded one by my feet.
When I get out of the train, it takes me about 2 minutes to get the bike set up and ready to go, including putting the chain back on the front chain ring ( the greatest short fall of the BF). I don't fold it a lot, so I would imagine that if I did it often, the unfolding time would decrease by 50% or more.
Foldability combined with the fantastic ride of my Carusoe, makes me take the bike out far more than I would if I had either a crummy folder, or a full size non-folder.
Its going to rain today, probably pretty hard in the afternoon....... Think I'll ride to work.................

As an NS owner, I can tell you that the fold is a *lot* bigger than 12X23X33, even with the stem turned to fold over the bike.

I just measured my Downtube NS in my office. I got 13x24x33. BUT, the "fold" (and those specs) includes removing the handlebar, not just folding it down sideways.

Juan is right that there are individuals carrying a lot of stuff on commuter trains and buses. Although they typically tend to be people going to and from an airport or bus/train station for a long trip.

Regarding Makeinu's two 26" Dahon bikes end on end, while the total amount of volume might be close--I don't know what happens to their handlebars--their ability to fit in to particular spaces is different. That alone could be reason enough to apply different rules to the bikes.

In DC, the Metro requires that the folding bike be in a bag during rush hour. Do other cities have similar rules? Off hours one can bring in a full sized bike uncovered. Buses have bike racks but a folded bike in a bag can be brought on board. I do not know about commuter lines such as the VRE or MARC.

Recently I corresponded with Green Gear cycling (who make Bike Fridays) about some folding pedals they sell (I'm going to replace my Brompton pedals because I often ride in leather soled shoes and the Brompton pedals are in my opinion too slippery - I want something with rubber grip). I happened to share my review with Ruthy Kanagy there and she responded with the below. She did not ask me to post it here, I'm doing so because I'd said apparently there'd been some SatRDay "recalls" and that seems not to have been true in a literal sense, and I while I still stand behind the idea that any new bike model is hypothetically more likely to have problems, I don't want to amplify that idea with incorrect information.

"I wanted to clarify what you wrote about 'recall of the SatRDay'.
We've never had a recall of the SatRDay or any BF model. We do have
safety upgrades and occasional manufacturer's recall (e.g. a quick
release). We occasionally discontinue a model to streamline offerings or
devote resources to a new model like the tikit."

When I intially heard about the BF Tikit, I was very excited. Once I finally saw it, it was so ugly I couldn't believe it. While I am not the world's biggest Brompton fan (see my previous posts) I still have to give credit where it is due. For all around, compact folded size, the Brommie has the best fold (same applies to the Merc of course). I still like my Swift the best of all the folding bikes I've ridden and the DT Mini is surprisingly a good all around bike.

I had a chance to ride my bosses Ti Brompton about a month ago and it still is a nice bike. I compared it with my DT Mini in a previous post. I honestly thought BF would have turned out something better than the Tikit. With all the hype and build-up, it was quite a let down when I saw one in person. There is something about the Brompton that is elegant where as the Tikit looks like a the "form follows function guy" and the "I want it to look nice guy" had an argument and nobody really won. To me the Tikit sort of looks cheap and unfinished at the same time. This seems to stem (no pun intended) from the seat and stem area. I'd have to say that the DT Mini looks far better in person than the Tikit and at a much lower price. Maybe in time BF will refine the design but for now I'll pass. I'd buy a M6R Brompton before the Tikit if I wanted to throw a wad of cash at another bike. The fold is truly compact and the accessories are VERY WELL thought out. Nobody does it better at this point. The Brompton luggage is really well designed. The option of an internal hub dynamo, luggage and the Ti bits just add to what you can really create with a Brompton. Still don't like the brakes that much as they border on adequate but overall I've grown to appreciate the bike more.

Still don't like the brakes that much as they border on adequate but overall I've grown to appreciate the bike more.

Waveshreder, I currently ride a Brompton with the new upgraded dual brakes. I added Salmon pads and as fat as I can tell, I can block my tires at any speed without having the X-Men super grip squeeze. I can feel it is not as good as the Merc brakes ( it requires more strentgh to squeeze on the Brompton) but it is significantly better than what I had before.

Once again i agree with you. Tikit is far from being up to the Bike Friday standard.

When I intially heard about the BF Tikit, I was very excited. Once I finally saw it, it was so ugly I couldn't believe it. While I am not the world's biggest Brompton fan (see my previous posts) I still have to give credit where it is due. For all around, compact folded size, the Brommie has the best fold (same applies to the Merc of course). I still like my Swift the best of all the folding bikes I've ridden and the DT Mini is surprisingly a good all around bike.

I had a chance to ride my bosses Ti Brompton about a month ago and it still is a nice bike. I compared it with my DT Mini in a previous post. I honestly thought BF would have turned out something better than the Tikit. With all the hype and build-up, it was quite a let down when I saw one in person. There is something about the Brompton that is elegant where as the Tikit looks like a the "form follows function guy" and the "I want it to look nice guy" had an argument and nobody really won. To me the Tikit sort of looks cheap and unfinished at the same time. This seems to stem (no pun intended) from the seat and stem area. I'd have to say that the DT Mini looks far better in person than the Tikit and at a much lower price. Maybe in time BF will refine the design but for now I'll pass. I'd buy a M6R Brompton before the Tikit if I wanted to throw a wad of cash at another bike. The fold is truly compact and the accessories are VERY WELL thought out. Nobody does it better at this point. The Brompton luggage is really well designed. The option of an internal hub dynamo, luggage and the Ti bits just add to what you can really create with a Brompton. Still don't like the brakes that much as they border on adequate but overall I've grown to appreciate the bike more.

Can't argue with your points WAV. But a big minus, in my opinion, to the Brompton is the lack of a wider--i.e., eight speed--internal hub and a height adjustable handlebar. I also think that their choice of brakes is something to be desired. Instead of going with something as ubiquitous as a v-brake, they went with a proprietary dual pivot brake. But I have tried the new brakes, they are much better than the old ones.

I will have a better assessment of the Mini in a week or so.

The Tikit is overpriced by about $400.00 USD. Other than that, is a nice bike. If they lowered the price to about $600.00 USD, it would sell like hotcakes.

It's one thing to argue looks, but for many people, the ride is just as important. I haven't heard anyone extensively criticize the ride so far, other than to say "it rides like my other bike," which is a meaningless statement anyway if not qualified (posted as a review in another thread).

I tend to agree that the folded package looks ungainly, but I haven't seen one in person either.

The Tikit is overpriced by about $400.00 USD. Other than that, is a nice bike. If they lowered the price to about $600.00 USD, it would sell like hotcakes.
Hopefully this IS their plan to use the tikit as the new entry level model at the entry level price, but their former entry level price hovered around $700.

In any case, I know the high price is to deflect production and R&D costs, but I also see they won't drop the price by much if at all; all those people who bought 'em for $1200 would complain of devaluation, and BFs NEVER devalue...much.

No, they won't chop prices, but they will eliminate or re-name models or bundle new value-added extras into a purchase price. (The full-suspensioned Gnu was re-named as an up-optioned Pocket Llama) Or there is the a la carte mechanism of allowing lower-priced components than the original spec for a lower entry price while keeping a higher-speced original model at the same price.

Can't argue with your points WAV. But a big minus, in my opinion, to the Brompton is the lack of a wider--i.e., eight speed--internal hub and a height adjustable handlebar. I also think that their choice of brakes is something to be desired. Instead of going with something as ubiquitous as a v-brake, they went with a proprietary dual pivot brake. But I have tried the new brakes, they are much better than the old ones.

I will have a better assessment of the Mini in a week or so.

I wish more bikes had the 8spd internal hub. As many of you know I am a big fan of them as I went with the 8R25 Shimano on my Swift. I have to admit though that the 6spd. setup on my boss' bike works pretty well though I'd like a wider range.

For his intended purpose it is likely ideal. He went with the optional lower drive ratios for climbing hills while loaded. I can spin it out pretty easy on flat ground unloaded. He bought it to ride it loaded in the hills and in town. For that it is ideal. He just coasts down the hills so not having a taller high gear isn't that important.

I still admire the fold of the Brompton and Merc every time I see it, nobody touches it yet but the Mini does come close and I like the ride of the Mini better even though I wouldn't mind it to be a bit longer. The Mini is a great value and in retrospect the entry Brompton isn't too bad either if you can live with the limited gear range. I tend to agree with most here that the BF over priced the Tikit by about $300-400 dollars. Bottom line for me is a 10 second fold or 30 second fold isn't a huge difference in the real world. If I am that tight to catch a train I screwed up pretty badly in the first place.

I have two Bike Fridays. One is an almost, but not quite, bottom of the line 8 speed Pocket Tourist, the other an 18 speed Capreo equipped Crusoe. Three other folders, including a Dahon Curve D3. I use the Pocket Tourist to commute, the Crusoe to go for longer rides, and the Curve to tool around town and go shopping.

I'd agree that the tikit seems a little overpriced for what you get. Never mind BF making their development costs back. Still, with a quicker and more convenient fold than the classic BFs, I could see using one for both my Pocket Tourist rides, and the Curve rides.

The ugliness comment makes no sense to me at all, although I've seen the bike only in pictures. Like beauty, it must be in the eye of the beholder.

At this point, I have no intention of spending any money on new bicycles. However, if the tikit had been available in 2005, when I bought the Pocket Tourist, for even $300 less than they want for it this year, it might have been a real possibility.

I really don't think you are going to get a mass-produced bike price (Dahon) from a custom builder (BF).

BF puts far more "personal customer service" and customization ability into their product offering than Dahon, and the price reflects it. Dahon makes a very nice product, but customization and personal customer service are left up to the selling dealers. Just different business plans.

I have ridden a tikit in Eugene, and stated in an earlier post that it rides like our Boardwalk D7's which have 20" wheels - and I think the Boardwalks ride really nice - they are very easy to do 20 miles on on a relatively flat ride such as in the city or on Portland or Vancouver's bike paths.

We have tried riding to downtown Vancouver, WA and back (about a 22 miles round trip) and have found it really takes more than 7-speeds to handle geting back up on the plateau that East Vancouver is on. Something like a Bike Friday NWT with an 8-speed cassette and an SRAM 3-speed hub would be ideal. Otherwise, riding the aforementioned bike paths or going to the store, or riding around campgrounds as we have done on our current trip, can be done easily on my Boardwalk single-speed.

(Will post an updated pic of my S-1 when I get home - it now has bar-ends and a Thud-Buster seat post! Very comfortable ride!!!)

Bottomline: The Tikit would make a very nice commuter or "go-to-the-store" bike in my opinion, but it would be an expensive one. HOWEVER, price is not an object to many people - witness BF's success to date.

The Tikit looks impressive with the quick fold, but I am new to folders having just picked up a Dahon MU SL and I can fold this really, really fast and at 19 lbs I can pick it up and run with it to the platform to catch the train.

Not sure what the Tikits are selling for in the USA, but here in Canada the price is $1500 CAD.
Got my '06 MU SL for just over $1100. Found the better value in the Dahon.

Dale

Hey, just a short note on Brompton v. Tikit. I had the pleasure to try both pretty recently, unsure which brompton I got on tho. I didn't immediately love the Brompton because it jangled a bit while riding, was that the suspension? Anyhow, quiet bikes are better in my mind. Also, Tikit impressed me because I could ride it hands free, which didn't work on the Brompton -- so it felt more solid.

All that said, I might still get a Brompton because I need the small fold for many quick airline trips.

... the Brompton because it jangled a bit while riding, was that the suspension? Anyhow, quiet bikes are better in my mind...

Yeah, the brompton rattles and jangles. Some of it is the suspenion (I guess more with the new secure clip as there is metal on metal) and a lot comes from the roler wheels - luckily this can be fixed by mounting skate-wheels with proper axlebearing

You can fix brompton bounce by putting two hose clamps over the elastomer and tighten accordingly

As a new Tikit owner, I'll chime in here. I just picked up my Tikit in the US while on vacation after pining for a Brompton for a long time. I wanted the Brompton for the reason that it has the most compact fold. My reasoning is that a folding bike has to do what it does best, fold. A compact package would be the best to take in a train or a bus...

but... the fast fold does make a difference. With little practice, the tikit folds faster than 5 seconds. I already was confronted with the situation of a waiting bus, and the bike was folded before the driver was able to get impatient. Unfolding too is super quick and there isn't any saddle adjustment...its already done. If I want to quickly hop over to the store which isn't too far away, the unfold-fold, shop, unfold-fold goes by without thinking.

The folded size isn't as compact, but the Tikit fits into most train luggage racks, and when rush hour is at hand, you can stand it vertically and it doesn't take much floor space.

The ride is good, it is actually smoother than my Cannondale mountain bike and absorbs shock pretty well. I got the large size since I am taller than average (190cm). I like the gearing too.

As for the price, I am pretty satisfied. At $1298, that came out to about 800 euros, which is the starting price for a Brompton in these parts. You can trick out a Brompton to more than 2000 euros with Ti bits and other options. Seeing the engineering complexity of both bikes, and where they are made, in USA or in London, the price is right.

So to sum up, the fast fold is actually more useful than it would apear, and the bike is comfortable and rides very well. I'd recommend it, and the Brommie too.

I have both the tikit and the Brompton - both nice bikes. I'm surprised no one posted this youtube of David Lam of bFold (he sells both bikes) explaining the virtues of these 2 marvellous bikes. To sum up, he says that the tikit rides better, has better gearing, more adjustability for better rider fit (esp handle bar and choice) and uses std bike parts (unlike the Brompton), so easier to fix/mod. Where the Brompton pips the tikit is in its unbeatable compact folded size and this may or may not be crucial for your needs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW5ALx_XjyM&feature=related

I largely agree with David esp with the ride bit and may I add the handling too. The tikit feels like a go-cart that can turn on a dime. Also, the tikit will roll better than the Brompton in folded state - a very essential feature for me. If you travel a lot, I like the fact that the tikit packs into a regular Samsonite F'lite (which has a trailer option). My Brompton needs a huge suitcase (costs me only US$40 but does the job) that can be quite cumbersome to travel with.

But the Brompton seems more reliable and robust with its traditional, more tested technology. Its also oozes quality. Like I said, both very good bikes.

One last plus point for the tikit is Bike Friday's exceptional personal after sales service. They are a joy to deal with!

If you must know, my tikit gets used more often. My 2 cents for what its worth...

New York City has one of the most liberal rules regarding bikes on board trains. These changes were made on behalf of Transportation Alternatives so you're lucky to have them. Try to bring your non-folder in Path, SEPTA or the Chicago El during rush hour and you'll get kicked off fast! There are many others that will not allow non-folders during rush hour so this is nothing new.

Bingo was his name-o. All light rail I've encountered lately explicitely says, "No bicycles permited on train during peak hours." Peak hours are usually 6:00am to 10:00am and 3:00pm to 7:00pm. Enjoy your bike over lunch... Most will overlook a folder, especially if its in a bag. Strida seems best suited for this application.

This is only a minor item, but regarding the bells on these, I thought there was a large difference. The bell on the Tikit was pretty loud, like a bell at a busy diner telling the waitress that an order was ready for pickup. The bell on the Brompton sounded like champagne glasses clinking. Or perhaps a little bell telling you your tea was ready. :)

Oh no. It's already happening. I'm turning into a Brompton snob. :)

I actually prefer the brass bell of the tikit. It's ingenious and sounds real classy :) Its double action sound makes it sound like no other.

I prefer some simple stats, specifically folded size. A folded Tikit is barely smaller than a BF New World Tourist, actually folds bigger than some 20" bikes, and is almost 3 times larger than a folded Brommie:

Bike Friday NWT, 20" wheels = 12" x 33" x 34" (13,464 cu in)
Bike Friday Tikit, 16" wheels = 15" x 24" x 35" (12,600 cu in)
Dahon Speed P8, 20" wheels = 13" x 25" x 32" (10,400 cu in)
Downtube NS, 20" wheels = 12" x 23" x 33" (9,108 cu in)
Downtube Mini, 16" wheels = 10" x 20" x 29" (5,800 cu in)
Brompton = 9.8" x 21" x 22" (4,527 cu in)

I'm sure the Tikit rides great. Maybe if it fits under your desk at work you could use it for regular commuting -- but if you have less than 10 miles to ride, why not get a tour-worthy NWT, a 6-speed Brommie or even a $400 Dahon instead? You would have to be swilling some major Bike Friday Kool-Aide made from Eugene, OR tap water to think of it as a viable multi-mode commuter bike.

I guess I don't get the nasty Kool-Aide crack.

I own a NWT and a Tikit. The numbers show them within 1000 cu in, but the difference in ease of folding is HUGE. I rarely fold my NWT; I think of it as packable vice foldable.

I've ridden a Brompton extensively. If I needed a folder for multi-mode commuting it would be the hands down choice. That being said, it has a lot of downsides. I'm 6'3" and a bit over 200 pounds. The only way the Brompton fit me was with the extension seatpost. The extension seat post kept slipping down. No amount of cleaning and tightening seemed to stop the slippage. It was pretty annoying. There wasn't much of an adjustment for the handlebar postition, so the rider position for a tall rider was pretty bad. Very uncomfortable. For a smaller rider this probably isn't a problem.

Downtube Mini, and Downtube NS won't work for someone with my long legs. Just plain out of the question without some surgery, or an add on. One size fits all is the anathema of the 3 sigma size set.

I haven't tried a Dahon P8. By the numbers I should just be able to get the seatpost extension I need. But then, it's still a one size fits all bike, I doubt the fit would be very good. I have tried out several other Dahon models. None fit me very comfortably.

Tikit comes in three sizes. The large size fit without any adjustment going even close to the limit. Handlebar post adjusts too.

I use the Tikit for commuting. The fold gets the bike into my office, and into stores and shops. I don't need to take a bus or train. It's way easier to fold than the NWT, and the since it fits well, the ride is comfortable.

I'm not dissing these other folders. They have their place, and if they're a good fit, they can be a great value. If you are having trouble getting a good fit, the Tikit can be a good solution.

Pass the Kool-Aide please...

Speedo

I guess I don't get the nasty Kool-Aide crack.

I own a NWT and a Tikit. The numbers show them within 1000 cu in, but the difference in ease of folding is HUGE. I rarely fold my NWT; I think of it as packable vice foldable.

The problem with those numbers (and I've said this before) is that they assume that all folded bikes make a nice rectangular shape. That isn't true of most. The Tikit fold is more of a wedge which makes it smaller than the rectangular dimensions would have you believe.

The Brompton is smaller. I personally prefer the ride and standard parts (which allows for easier customization) on my Tikit. I also like that the Tikit still folds well with drop bars, which isn't true for almost any other "compact" folder on the market.

The problem with those numbers (and I've said this before) is that they assume any other "compact" folder on the market.

Tikit will also get into a F'lite 31 without significant disassembly.