ay 12 - KGO - The outspoken bicycling group that holds a monthly event called Critical Mass has had another run-in with a driver, this time in Berkeley, where an elderly couple tangled with angry cyclists.
It happened in front of a firestation where the firefighters were so worried they had to call the police.
Even on a good day, navigating the intersection of Alameda and Monterey in North Berkeley is challenging.
On Friday night a couple came through the intersection at the same time as dozens of Berkeley's Critical Mass riders.
Jason Meggs, Critical Mass Rider: "He keeps driving and then he drives some more and he drives some more."
Bicycle advocate Jason Meggs shot video tape and provided an edited version to ABC7. He claims the driver attacked the riders.
Jason Meggs, Critical Mass Rider: "There was one bike that got trapped. Another person came to help get her out of the way and his bike got trapped. So they were basically tangled and couldn't get out."
Berkeley Police Sgt. Mary Kusmiss says independent witnesses told police the driver was trying to escape an angry crowd. Police declined to release the driver's name.
Sgt. Mary Kusmiss, Berkeley Police: "What we understand is that the crowd had surrounded the minivan. There were some participants of Critical Mass who were pounding on the van and shaking the van enough for it to be moving and reaching into the van and trying to get the keys out of the ignition."
You can see from the tape that the 77-year-old driver is moving forward slowly while a bike rider appears to be snagged beneath the advancing fender. The van stops. The driver's disabled wife exits the van. She tells the crowd she has Cerebral Palsy.
Gabe Schnake-Mahl, Witness: "I started hearing a bunch of noises and I realized that it was someone kind of on the hood of the van breaking the windshield. They started kind of jostling with the driver."
No one was arrested and there have been no fines in conjunction with what happened here but Berkeley Police say if they can find out who broke the van's windshield they will prosecute.
Jason Meggs, Critical Mass Rider: "They're considering complaints against individual police officers."
Jason Meggs says the riders are considering suits against the driver and the city. Meggs has sued Berkeley four times in the past, and lost.
Last March in San Francisco, Critical Mass made headlines after a driver allegedly knocked down a cyclist. A mother and her five children had the back window of their minivan smashed out by the group of bikers after, they say, she tried to drive away.
pj7
05-12-07, 11:27 PM
Well, I saw no attack in that edited video. However I did see a predictable outcome to a situation.
Take one elderly confused driver, add a mob of cyclist, mix in with a little teenage angst, simmer and serve.
o-dog
05-13-07, 12:49 AM
an elderly couple! real classy, guys.
once again, people wonder why I don't back CM...
mike
05-13-07, 01:51 AM
Critical Mass is similar to the PETA in that both have terrorist tendencies; preaching their messages with a steel pipe in their fists.
I don't see how Critical Mass does the cycling world any good at all. How does frustrating drivers and clogging up traffic provide any kind of positive message or promote the idea of sharing the roadways? The only message it sends is that bicyclists on roads cause trouble and inconvenience and don't belong.
Most of the high-and-mighty Critical Mass riders transport their bikes to the ride scene with their automobiles anyway and commute to work daily with their cars, so who are they trying to impress?
Critical Mass has turned ugly and needs to go bye-bye ASAP. CM doesn't promote good bicycling ambassadorship, safety, or good-will. It is just a group of obnoxious people taking an opportunity to make a scene.
cal_gundert05
05-13-07, 01:58 AM
The driver's disabled wife exits the van. She tells the crowd she has Cerebral Palsy.
I'm sorry, but...
:roflmao:
bikemoner2k
05-13-07, 03:24 AM
Well, I saw no attack in that edited video. However I did see a predictable outcome to a situation.
Take one elderly confused driver, add a mob of cyclist, mix in with a little teenage angst, simmer and serve.
When there is a person standing in front of your car, and you drive into them purposely, that is vehicular assault. Whether or not it was in self defense is whats up to debate in this situation.
Most of the high-and-mighty Critical Mass riders transport their bikes to the ride scene with their automobiles anyway and commute to work daily with their cars, so who are they trying to impress?
Maybe thats true in the snowy midwest (doubtful), but anybody showing up at a mass with a car will get laughed right back into their vehicle.
mike
05-13-07, 04:28 AM
Maybe thats true in the snowy midwest (doubtful), but anybody showing up at a mass with a car will get laughed right back into their vehicle.
Get real. If you haven't seen people unloading and loading their bikes onto cars before and after Critical Mass rides, then you haven't been to a Critical Mass ride.
Critical Mass is just a temporary gang of hypocrits and Wednesday-lunch-only vegans. I have absoluletly no respect for the vast majority of the people I have seen at Critical Mass events. The whole thing is bad for bicycling. The world would be better off if they just dressed as clowns and walked in the streets rather than ride bicycles.
bellweatherman
05-13-07, 05:12 AM
Get real. If you haven't seen people unloading and loading their bikes onto cars before and after Critical Mass rides, then you haven't been to a Critical Mass ride.
Critical Mass is just a temporary gang of hypocrits and Wednesday-lunch-only vegans. I have absoluletly no respect for the vast majority of the people I have seen at Critical Mass events. The whole thing is bad for bicycling. The world would be better off if they just dressed as clowns and walked in the streets rather than ride bicycles.
You're just biased and definitely have the wrong idea about Critical Mass. Maybe you've seen a couple bad instances and now you want to generalize about it. Whatever the case may be, Critical Mass is not about terrorism, or vegans gone wild. Critical Mass is about bringing to the forefront cyclist's rights and issues with road and traffic safety. My message to you is stop generalizing based on some preconceived notion of what you think Critical Mass is. Share the road or get off it.
mike
05-13-07, 05:17 AM
You're just biased and definitely have the wrong idea about Critical Mass. Maybe you've seen a couple bad instances and now you want to generalize about it. Whatever the case may be, Critical Mass is not about terrorism, or vegans gone wild. Critical Mass is about bringing to the forefront cyclist's rights and issues with road and traffic safety. My message to you is stop generalizing based on some preconceived notion of what you think Critical Mass is. Share the road or get off it.
blah blah. Critical Mass is no longer about "bringing to the forefront cyclists rights and road safety issues" and it hasn't been for at least over a decade.
The only statement made by Critical Mass tangling up traffic and harassing motorists is that bicyclist are a pain-in-the-@ss.
I have been a sincere bicycle enthusiast before Critical Mass started and the only result I have seen Critical Mass bring about is that the "Mass" of citizens become "Critical" of bicyclists. Even motorists who are on the fence tilt away from supporting cyclists after they experience some of the obnoxious behavior they see at Critical Mass events.
Sure, not all Critical Mass participants are bad eggs, but the events are so poorly organized and so badly managed that a large number of schlumps show up and the worst of cycling is demonstrated.
sgtsmile
05-13-07, 05:18 AM
When there is a person standing in front of your car, and you drive into them purposely, that is vehicular assault. Whether or not it was in self defense is whats up to debate in this situation.
(I am using what you say here as a starting point for some thoughts only :D )
When a person threatens or indimidates another person, whether that person be on a bike or in a car, that is assault or at least harassment. The CM riders in this situation are guilty of that the second they started to behave in a threatening manner towards the people in that van - once they start making physical contact, it is assault.
Imagine "you" (the gentle reader :rolleyes: ) are in your car at an intersection and you are surrounded by about 15 to 20 people NOT on bikes who are preventing you from moving, and they look angry, and they are a lot younger and stronger than you, and in fear you inch forward to try and escape from what you fear is who knows what, and they start pounding on the vehicle and making threatening gestures and screaming at you. You would call that a swarming right?
So how does the fact that these people swarming drivers at intersections are on bikes make it magically ok?
If cyclists want respect from other road users, they MUST show that respect in turn. The jerks will be jerks no matter what (be they in a car or on a bike or on a moose or whatever), but I for one do not wish to be represented by the jerks of the bike world (and lets face it, for those not interested in bikes who see the kind of crap that was in that story, it gives a pretty piss poor representation of the cycling public and MAY be the representation they remember.)
sgtsmile
05-13-07, 05:23 AM
You're just biased and definitely have the wrong idea about Critical Mass. Maybe you've seen a couple bad instances and now you want to generalize about it. Whatever the case may be, Critical Mass is not about terrorism, or vegans gone wild. Critical Mass is about bringing to the forefront cyclist's rights and issues with road and traffic safety. My message to you is stop generalizing based on some preconceived notion of what you think Critical Mass is. Share the road or get off it.
Interesting point.
People who are not bike riders see the bad events and generalize about cycling.
Good one:)
And then, thanks to those stalwart ambassadors of the bike world creating a mess at CM, we get more motorists with no use for bikes, especially when the media broadcasts it. (Even if the majority of CM rides are ok, that is irrelevant when the court of public opinion meets...)
"Share the road or get off it" is a great message that those who participate in CM and WONT share the road need to get.
How about a CM ride where people take one lane of two, share the road, stop at lights, and obey the rules?
mike
05-13-07, 05:46 AM
Interesting point.
How about a CM ride where people take one lane of two, share the road, stop at lights, and obey the rules?
That is a great suggestion, sgtsmile. I am all for that.
JustBrowsing
05-13-07, 06:27 AM
How about a CM ride where people take one lane of two, share the road, stop at lights, and obey the rules?
That's just crazytalk...
Dchiefransom
05-13-07, 07:47 AM
Share the road or get off it.
That would cancel the Critical Mass ride, since they don't do that.
maddyfish
05-13-07, 07:59 AM
It is just a matter of time , before one of these CM guys gets himself killed.
unkchunk
05-13-07, 08:31 AM
Critical Mass has turned ugly and needs to go bye-bye ASAP. CM doesn't promote good bicycling ambassadorship, safety, or good-will. It is just a group of obnoxious people taking an opportunity to get make a scene.
I agree. CM is pretty much an open source protest, which is only as good as it's worst protester. With time and arbitrage, bad protesters will drive out good protesters. Any type of group gets feedback (both positive and negative), but CM has no mechanisms to deal with it; so it will keep spiraling downwards. Now it seems they are even losing Bay Area press sympathy.
rando
05-13-07, 09:31 AM
critical masssholes
karmical
05-13-07, 09:55 AM
why doesn't any of this cm bs happen when they ride through oakland?
now they've stooped so low as to picking on old people in minivans...
whats next bullying kids and trying to take their lunch money, i'd better not give these punks any ideas.
Shiznaz
05-13-07, 09:58 AM
*Yawn*
You guys sure like beating a dead horse. If you don't like CM, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Write letters and start protests. Whining about it on the internet is just a waste of your time.
karmical
05-13-07, 10:05 AM
its not beating a dead horse with me, its more like laughing at people who have no idea that to me and mostly everyone else, how big a joke they are, and how pathetic their meaningless actions truly are...
Bikepacker67
05-13-07, 10:08 AM
You're just biased and definitely have the wrong idea about Critical Mass. Maybe you've seen a couple bad instances and now you want to generalize about it. Whatever the case may be, Critical Mass is not about terrorism, or vegans gone wild. Critical Mass is about bringing to the forefront cyclist's rights and issues with road and traffic safety.
By stomping all over the rights of everyone else using the road...
Great thinking. :rolleyes:
Bikepacker67
05-13-07, 10:11 AM
If you can't even be tolerant of other riders, then you should just get off the bike and get in the car like the rest of the prejudiced, impatient, jerks out there.
Ohh you really are a self-righteous lil' *&^#, eh?
-=Łem in Pa=-
05-13-07, 10:18 AM
I see a mass of bicycle riders....
Let me just drive my 2 ton van into them.....They'll understand
:rolleyes:
Are mini-van drivers the new "I got anal probed by an alien on backroad in WV" people ??
JustBrowsing
05-13-07, 10:19 AM
You guys sure like beating a dead horse. If you don't like CM, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Write letters and start protests. Whining about it on the internet is just a waste of your time.
Yeah, write a letter to the organizers of the Critical Mass events in your area. Oh wait, you can't...It's almost as if they purposefully don't have organizers so they don't have to take responsibility for their actions. Y'know, something tells me that people in these parts would gain a bit of respect for CM if there were some accountability behind it...
JustBrowsing
05-13-07, 10:21 AM
I see a mass of bicycle riders....
Let me just drive my 2 ton van into them.....They'll understand
And you're absolutely positive that it wasn't a situation of someone driving a minivan down the road or waiting at a stoplight and finding themselves being surrounded by bicyclists? Yeah, cos that could never happen...
-=Łem in Pa=-
05-13-07, 10:24 AM
And you're absolutely positive that it wasn't a situation of someone driving a minivan down the road or waiting at a stoplight and finding themselves being surrounded by bicyclists? Yeah, cos that could never happen...
The same as you're absolutely positive the event happened as in the article.
If its printed, it must be true, right ?
wheel
05-13-07, 10:26 AM
I think CM needs to grow up.
Install a group ride where people will abide by the group's misison so you have one united message.
Have leaders that deal with the problems that arise instead of a mob with emotions.
Is it really that hard to get a parade permit????? If so then rules need to be changed so it is easier.
We have not heard or seen the whole story here.
Unless he feels his life is in danger, (which he rolls down the window). Why is he moving foward? I think he needs a driving class.
Nice example of how a crowd with emotions can appear to be hostile at first. Happens all the time with the riot police or so they say.
darksiderising
05-13-07, 10:52 AM
I think the most appropriate statement at time is a clarifying one: Cyclists like those that this thread is a subject of give Critical Mass a bad name.
Let's not jump all over the place when some idiots do something that is not supported by the group as a whole.
wheel
05-13-07, 11:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUoUF1JrS98&NR=1
Here is more of the video,,,
They smash his windshield.
There is a red light at the start of the tape.
Driver is in Intersection.
Crowd doesn't appear to be hostile from what I can tell at first.
Runs over bicycles
Passenger gets out of car.
Burrito Eater
05-13-07, 01:30 PM
Interesting point.
How about a CM ride where people take one lane of two, share the road, stop at lights, and obey the rules?
Last Friday of the month. Long Beach California. Does what you ask.
Critical Mass is similar to the PETA in that both have terrorist tendencies; preaching their messages with a steel pipe in their fists.
The internet is not big enough for the rolling eyes smilie that I would like to use here. Do you write for the local news in Topeka or something? Most over-dramatic statement ever. :rolleyes:
The FBI's most dangerous terrorist groups:
1. Al-Queda
2. Critical Mass
3. PETA
4. Everyone else
:roflmao:
dobber
05-13-07, 01:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUoUF1JrS98&NR=1
Here is more of the video,,,
I like how they brought the kids into the melee. Nothing like pandering to the camera.
sgtsmile
05-13-07, 02:40 PM
Last Friday of the month. Long Beach California. Does what you ask.
Sweet, great to hear that. :D
rando
05-13-07, 03:02 PM
my favorite hysterical CM quote : "THERE'S SOMEONE UNDER THERE!" :rolleyes:
it appears the ****ers did everything in their power to escalate the situation and incite the crowd. LOVED the crying kids. Dick Cheney did a fine job as the pissed off motorist. I give it four out of five stars.
tehdely
05-13-07, 03:47 PM
That video made me laugh. It was just so perfect; quick shot of the bikers plowing through downtown traffic, then a bunch of hippies on a hill, then the confrontation, starting off with the most Cheney-esque picture of the guy and concluding with crying children.
I can't even decipher what actually happened from it, but that's a beautifully put together piece of propaganda.
CommuterRun
05-13-07, 04:09 PM
CM is the cyclist's anti-advocacy.
UmneyDurak
05-13-07, 04:49 PM
Old people shouldn't drive. The dude was using his car as a freaken battering ramp! Motorist isn't a blameless vicitm as some people tried to portray him. I mean what a hell was going through his head? "Gee there are bikers everywhere, including right infront of me. What to do, what to do... Oh I know I will drive over them! Yes thats a great idea. I'll do that." :rolleyes:
darksiderising
05-13-07, 06:50 PM
Brainwashed idiots that ride bikes. Its not Critical Mass. It's the few morons on this thread that generalize about the goodwill of Critical Mass riders while spouting the same old stereotypes. So hypocritical. And you wonder why impatient rush hour drivers are squeezing you off the road and telling you to get on the sidewalk.
I love it when people justify assault with a deadly weapon, when, at the same time, challenging other people's morality.
dobber
05-13-07, 08:01 PM
I love it when people justify assault with a deadly weapon, when, at the same time, challenging other people's morality.
I didn't see any assault with any deadly weapon. What I did see was a bunch of irresponsible dolts playing the victim and trying to make a mountains out of molehills.
All those hipster got pwn'd by an old coot in a mini-van.
unkchunk
05-13-07, 08:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUoUF1JrS98&NR=1
Here is more of the video,,,
They smash his windshield.
There is a red light at the start of the tape.
Driver is in Intersection.
Crowd doesn't appear to be hostile from what I can tell at first.
Runs over bicycles
Passenger gets out of car.
Well that's it then. CM should be banned simply for playing "Eye of the Tiger" during the ride. You should warn people before hand of things like that.
UmneyDurak
05-13-07, 10:47 PM
I didn't see any assault with any deadly weapon. What I did see was a bunch of irresponsible dolts playing the victim and trying to make a mountains out of molehills.
All those hipster got pwn'd by an old coot in a mini-van.
I guess you don't consider some old fart plowing in to cyclists just standing there as assault with a deadly weapon. He didn't pawn anyone, he almost killed someone, and from the video it looks like he almost crushed someones leg.
-=Łem in Pa=-
05-13-07, 10:54 PM
Its always ironic that a lot of the posters of the zillions of threads that
permeate A&S deriding car drivers, JAMS etc; all are on the JAMS side
whenever CM is mentioned. And they rip Forester for being a turncoat....
:roflmao:
Placid Casual
05-14-07, 12:34 AM
I like how they brought the kids into the melee. Nothing like pandering to the camera.
Personal cameras are such a common sight at public events these days that nobody even notices them anymore, much less panders to them.
Personally, unlike all of you infinitely wise sages and psychic remote viewers who have fully-formed opinions on an event that you didn't witness and have only seen a badly-edited videotape of, I would like to see some unedited footage of the whole incident before forming an opinion. From what I have seen so far, it looks like it was the mini-van driver's fault...but the people who posted the film could very well have edited out some kind of provocation from the crowd that could have legitimately scared the driver. More video would be really helpful here.
bellweatherman
05-14-07, 12:47 AM
Exactly! And I'm not even talking about the intolerance that many drivers have for cyclists in general. I'm talking about the intolerance that other people on this thread have for the Critical Mass riders based on their generalizations that all Critical Mass riders are terrorists, vegans, riders that punch car mirrors out, etc. Intolerance is intolerance. Critical Mass is about bringing the issues that ALL cyclists have about traffic safety, road improvements that need to be made, about adding bike lanes, cyclist's rights, etc. Critical Mass is a good thing. False generalizations and intolerance, now that's was bad.
dobber
05-14-07, 03:36 AM
Critical Mass is about bringing the issues that ALL cyclists have about traffic safety, road improvements that need to be made, about adding bike lanes, cyclist's rights, etc.
OK, I'll bite. How exactly are they accomplishing this. Let's refer to the two videos, the timeframes before the incidents. Can you point to the specific acts of advocacy.
I'll get the popcorn.
AGGRO
05-14-07, 03:48 AM
Exactly! And I'm not even talking about the intolerance that many drivers have for cyclists in general. I'm talking about the intolerance that other people on this thread have for the Critical Mass riders based on their generalizations that all Critical Mass riders are terrorists, vegans, riders that punch car mirrors out, etc. Intolerance is intolerance. Critical Mass is about bringing the issues that ALL cyclists have about traffic safety, road improvements that need to be made, about adding bike lanes, cyclist's rights, etc. Critical Mass is a good thing. False generalizations and intolerance, now that's was bad.
Well, if a bunch of other riders think this way imagine what a few million cagers think about it. CM should start policing themselves and clean it up as they are doing nothing for riding in general. Every time we see a video of CM it's starting crap.
dobber
05-14-07, 05:24 AM
Well, if a bunch of other riders think this way imagine what a few million cagers think
Hey, bringing logic into the thread isn't gonna help things. Let's keep it emotional and pointless, ok?
maddyfish
05-14-07, 06:04 AM
I didn't see any assault with any deadly weapon. What I did see was a bunch of irresponsible dolts playing the victim and trying to make a mountains out of molehills.
All those hipster got pwn'd by an old coot in a mini-van.
That's what I saw, too
Shiznaz
05-14-07, 06:31 AM
Well, if a bunch of other riders think this way imagine what a few million cagers think about it. CM should start policing themselves and clean it up as they are doing nothing for riding in general. Every time we see a video of CM it's starting crap.
We should start posting videos of all the great and successful CMs we have had. We have hours of footage and thousands of pictures and they are pretty fun to look at and watch. Or we could just post one of two videos of violent crazy people and assume all CMers act that way. Because that would be smart :rolleyes:
Laika
05-14-07, 07:15 AM
critical masssholes
lol did you think of that yourself? seriously, you should write in to reader's digest w/that. :rolleyes:
AGGRO
05-14-07, 07:47 AM
Hey, bringing logic into the thread isn't gonna help things. Let's keep it emotional and pointless, ok?
My bad :D
Oh...what's a "Successful" CM event? Please define.