Electric Bikes - Electric Commuters - love or hate?

Hi All,

I'm usure about how to feel about the proliferation of electric powered/assisted bikes that are showing up on local bike paths/bike lanes. I'm hoping to get a few points of view from both the "love 'em" crowd and the "hate 'em" folks.

Here's how my thoughts go:

Pros:

1) Better for the environment than driving a ICE scooter/motorcycle/car
2) The more advocates for quality bikes lanes and bike paths the better
3) Health benefits from a less stressful commute

Cons:

1) They have motors! Shouldn't bike paths/lanes be reservered for human powered traffic.
2) People are locking them up in bike racks. This takes space away from regular cyclists and may prevent some people from riding (ie. they can't find a place to lock up their bike).
3) Electric power/assist offers very few exercise benefits.

Full disclosure: I've tried to see both sides for this post but I personally hate 'em. When I see an electric scooter busting around in the bike lane my blood starts to boil. There's a very clear like between bicycle and motor vehicle, if it has a motor it belongs to the latter and therefore should stay off the bike paths and out of bike lanes.

Though I have no use for one, I don't mind them.

I go to a school where it is actually up-hill both ways, though never snowing. The people I see riding e-bikes need them to climb the 2 mile hill home.

A good friend and prof. here at the school has a disability, one leg is 2-3inches shorter than the other. He wants to ride for joy, less stress, health, and environmental protection/preservation, but he lives up a two mile 10-15% grade hill. I can't climb it w/o having a heat stroke, he is in his 60's

W/o the e-bike, he would be driving. For this reason alone I don't despise them. I don't really have any issues with them, but they aren't for me personally.

I am just glad to see other ppl riding!

There was another thread on here about motor scooters (the low-horsepower, step-through kind), and I discovered that in California, you HAVE to drive them in a bike lane if one is present. That changed my perspective. Less blood boiling.

I guess you have to figure out what benefits of the bike path or bike lane are being compromised when these types of vehicles use them. Such as noise from a motor disrupting the relative nature-ish peace of a multi-use path, or someone going too fast on an MUP, or riding annoyingly aggressively around peds*. With other aspects -- like if they keep to a speed limit of 15mph on the MUP, or whatever -- I've no objections.




* Um, cuz, you know, cyclists never do that.

I see very few so I can't really say I love or hate them. I will say it's fun when you can pass 'em without a motor!

They're welcome in my book. I think.

They're still quite rare and I'd rather see them than cars. I'll probably get one when I get older. Heck, sometimes I'd like one for those difficult mornings.

They're still quite rare and I'd rather see them than cars. I'll probably get one when I get older. Heck, sometimes I'd like one for those difficult mornings.

Agreed. I hope I see more of them. I'm worried that electric cars will replace gas-powered cars and we'll all still be in a car-centric world. My hope is that before e-cars become viable, most (many? some?) people will have tried something totally different and the face of transportation (commuting, at least) may have changed for the better.

maybe if you ran climate controlled tubes through the city that have no steep elevation climbs with security and waste management crews to keep the area clean and secure on staff 24/7 then I think people would ride a bike. Why do most people drive car it is "safe" nobody "attack" me it is comfortable it doesn't require work with e-bike xtra cycles and and 31'st century "tubes" more people will ride bike

when I was a student at the U of MN, there were folks riding on the bike path across the Washington Ave bridge, going the wrong way, and they wouldn't move! This usually isn't a problem...just move over and let the fool pass (with some kind words :) )...but when it is nice outside, and the bridge is full of people walking across, it becomes a problem. http://www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/pics/2955.jpg

Motorized bikes aren't allowed on the MUPs here in Atlanta thankfully.

On the street, I think it's a fine compromise

I don't have a problem with them, but I strongly question whether they're really as environmentally friendly as people assume. The electricity has to come from some place and frequently it's from burning coal, sometimes even oil.

Coal-fired electricity is arguably cleaner than gasoline power: the fed mandates and regulates and checks up on every coal plants emissions much more regularly than most people check the emissions on their cars. (hell, you can chop your catalytic converter out of your car within 24 hours of buying it here and as long as the car isn't too loud, no one would be the wiser or ever find out)

The bigger concern I have with e-bikes is the pollution involved in the production,disposal/recycling of the batteries. that said, I'd rather see e-bikes than cars any day.

The gas-powered scooters/motorcycles otoh, I'm not so happy with because unless you're in California, there's NO environmental regs on them, and with the resurgence of chopper-mania, truly efficient motorcycles are becoming less and less popular.

I personally don't have any problem with anyone using one as a bike. I don't like them myself, because even the moped ones are more scooter than bike. If you use it like a bike without the motor, it just feels heavy.

Ok, I'm qualified to speak to this. I have a Giant Lite/Twist electric assist bicycle (uber fred in my sig). First, not all electric bikes are created equal, they come in two basic verities mopeds, and electric assist bicycles, there is a difference. Mopeds, even though they may have pedals, like the old vespas, and early motorcycles, are too heavy and impractical to pedal. An electric assist bicycle you impart more energy to moving you forward than does the motor. True some have throttles, and you can run on the motor alone, but you will neither go very far or very fast.
The law (generally) describes an electric bike as one that has a top assisted speed of around 20 mph, most cut out around 16-18 mph, anything more is a moped and must be licensed and tagged. My bike conforms to Japanese standards which are more rigorous than either North American, or European standards. Mine has no throttle, you must pedal to make it go, and a range of anywhere from 18-35 miles depending on your load and terrain. It's mopeds that are not allowed on the MUPs in Atl, btw, my bike is legally a bicycle in the state of Georgia, and not banned from bike lanes or paths.
I did originally purchase mine because I had to do strength training after breaking my neck, but have since come to the conclusion that trauma, age, extreme weight, etc. are not requisites for purchasing one. I've over 3,000 miles on my bike, and it's the greatest town bike I could imagine. Fantastic for hauling loads, I can get on it through an intersection, even with 200 lbs. of groceries. This summer, although hellish, was doable every day, and sometimes it's just nice to take it easy.
A common reaction to electric assist bikes is as if they carry the plague, and usually from those who have never ridden one, or if so only in a parking lot. They are bicycles. Going up a 12% grade, you are going to have to work some to get up the hill, push it hard, and you are going to work hard. Relax, just keep the pedals moving, and let the motor do the work, you will get up the hill, but slowly (often nice to do when you are carrying a full trailer).
They have a Fred factor of epic proportions. Damn right I have a basket on mine, front and back. But I use it as a town bike, one needs baskets. What I'm getting to in a long tooth fashion is bicycles are highly specialized tools. One would not use a BMX in the Tour de France, nor would a time trial bike be of much use touring the cobblestone streets of Ireland. The assist bike, either as a commuter or fitness machine, is extremely capable.

--A

I think power assist bikes have a place. Like here, for instance. That's a lot of cargo to take up a hill.

http://todd.cleverchimp.com/blog/images/P1000150-01.jpg

They are better than a car.

Just about anything is.

I love to pass them going up hills :)

But seriously.. I cannot complain. Fewer cars on the road. Some folks may have physical limitations that would prevent them from any sort of hill climbing and this is a solution that gets them riding. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

About bike racks: Well, so what? They're the same size as bicycles, no?

I'm in favour of them, too. Much better than cars in general, and much better for urban air quality than crummy gas-powered mopeds. Unfortunately, there has been talk of regulation in China to ban them in the run-up to the Olympics because they're seen as a "backwards" mode of transportation, and not one becoming of the world-class city that is Beijing (cough!).

The ones here top out at 20-30 km/h, and they're nice to draft when you're riding into a nasty headwind. None of the guilt associated with drafting off a cyclist, and none of the exhaust of a moped/motor scooter.

I don't object to electric bikes at the bike rack any more than I object to the fair weather cyclists who steal my favourite bike-rack spot at the beginning of spring. I get a bit annoyed that there's less space for me, but I'm glad to see people out of cars and using more efficient transportation options.

Edit: And the Stokemonkey electric-assist gadget on that Xtracycle in the photo is the coolest thing ever. It's worth reading about the design principles behind it, and how it's meant to *supplement* rather than *replace* human power on a bike. I have a lot of respect for Todd (http://todd.cleverchimp.com/blog/), the guy behind it -- I just wish the word would get out more!

I like them.

Funny finding this thread. On yesterdays morning half of the commute I saw four of these going the other direction on the MUP.

All were going slower than your average road bike and were, to tell the truth, probably slower than the 15 mph limit. Only one had a helmet.

I'm ambivalent towards them:

1. The ranking in my mind goes suv << devil's bus << standard auto << compact car << motorcycle <<
scooter << electric assist bicycle << god's rickshaw << bicycle

2. So long as they are as quite as a bicycle (and these four were; each one was different and I couldn't figure out until they were past me what it was that made them creepy) I'm okay with them on the path. Heck they were quiter than the college kids with the rust encased drivetrain I see everyday.

3. The speed is the real issue. If they are using the path their speed should not be much faster than the road bikes, the path is only 5 feet wide in parts, and has many blind corners.

4. On the other hand i do find the idea of going up a hill without pedalling is somehow very creepy.

Here is the link to Public Law No: 107-319 concerning electric bicycles.
http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr03/low.html
This law is subject to local and state regulations so if your state outlaws motors on bicycles then your not going to be able use your electric bicycle in that state. A notable example is New Jersey. Other states may mandate additional equipment like lights and a helmet. Alabama considers any bicycle with an attached motor, gas or electric, to be classified as a motor-driven cycle and requires a brake light, illuminated headlight, and a motorcycle type approved helmet be worn. In actual operation the police in Alabama don’t enforce the motorcycle helmet requirement and a bicycle type helmet is acceptable but you must have a brake light and an illuminated headlight anytime the motor-driven cycle is moving even if the motor is not being used.

I have some experience with electric bicycles having installed a few electric bicycle kits for the neighbors.
Electric bicycle operators find out quickly that high-speed equals reduced range so typical operating speeds are around 10 miles per hour, which extends the range 4 times that of full throttle operation. Pedaling with the electric motor extends the range even more.
I have no problem with electric bicycles on the bike paths as there slower than the Roadies blasting down the path in excess of 20 MPH.

I love to pass them going up hills :)

But seriously.. I cannot complain. Fewer cars on the road. Some folks may have physical limitations that would prevent them from any sort of hill climbing and this is a solution that gets them riding. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

About bike racks: Well, so what? They're the same size as bicycles, no?

That pretty much sums up my feelings on them.

I have no objection to the electric bicycles in the lanes. I wish there were more of them around. I considered one for myself, but couldn't see the use of it vs. my other bikes. If I had one, it would be the trike, for major cargo haulage. Bionx sells a kit where you can just exchange the rear wheel of your bike for the power assist, and you get regenerative braking - or you can even charge the batteries by pedaling if you choose the correct setting.

For some reason, I don't like to see scooters or vespas in the MUP's, on the streets fine, but they are too wide for the paths. This is hypocritical, since I don't resent the trikes and trailers in the same place...

I'm cool w/ them as long as it's an assist motor, not a motorbike w/ pedals.

I personally wouldn't use one, but the more slow moving two wheeled vehicles there are on the road, the more acceptable bicycling becomes to car drivers.

One less car when I'm riding.
One more parking space when I'm driving.

Paul

Electric bikes that are assisting (not just replacing pedals) may not be the best exercise, but will maybe get someone used to the idea of doing it - until they decide that the electric is too slow or range limited. Then they can buy a normal bike... and a road bike, and a commuting bike...

It's a gateway drug! Uh, bike!

I REALLY wanted a electric motor-assisted bike after I had a major multiple sclerosis attack which just about killed me. I was too weak for YEARS to ride bike without some extra help. I begged my significant other for one, never go one. I think I would have done wonders for me just to be able to get outside and get some activity without having to rely on totally my own limited strength. They have their place and getting people on a bike is better than wasteing away on a couch or in a car.

It's all good. The electric assist bikes that are legal on MUPs in Washington state require pedaling so they provide exercise, they're pretty quiet, and they are speed limited to about 18 mph. It's a good option for people who aren't able or aren't confident enough to use a non-powered bike.

?I more so hate em', mostly due to my experiences with them. First experience was going over the manhattan bridge, a rather dark at night, and tight two lane path, i was climbing up the bridge, and up ahead i saw a bue headlight of another bike, as he was coming from the opposite direction, heading into manhattan. Just as im about to get side by side, and pass, out of no where some dude buzzing down the hill at id say 40 plus, goes around the oncoming cyclist, in doing so, cuts in front of me, crossing into my lane, and cuts back into the proper lane. This act of haste/stupidity nearly caused an accident. Worst of al, not a single light on the bike. Something going that fast, should be deemed a fullfledged auto, requiring lights and should be on the road, not bike path. The other occasion was when i was walking on the sidewalk, just reading the storefront signs looking for a nice place to have lunch, and then i hear a bzzzzz, and a lond MEEEEPPP MMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!, bzzzzzz, excuse, excuse.bzzzz, WATCH!!!!!. I now have an idot riding some pedaled bike thing on the sidewalk, yelling at me to get out of the way so he continue on his merry way!? So ridiculous....but i moved, and after he passed i told him to get on the streets and off the sidewalk, and his reply was waving his middle finger at me.

I offically have hated them ever since.

Although I don't currently have a use for an electric bicycle I'm all for them. The more cyclists on the road the better. I agree they don't normally provide much of a benefit to a fit cyclists but most people do not fit that category. If an individual can use an electric bicycle to feel comfortable riding 5, 10, or more miles to commute to work or run and errand thats great. Its much better than them using a car to do the same.
However I do not want to see more ICE powered bicycles or scooters. These are too noisy and poluting.
Craig

I have no objection to them, but I don't quite get them either. It seems to me that when you are not using the assist, the weight of the engine and battery pack would make riding more uncomfortable. This may be a misplaced fear, as I have never been on one though.

More and more of my friends are seriously considering selling their cars and buying mopeds, scooters and bicycles. That is a good thing, to my way of thinking, and I will happily share the road/path with them.

The MUP I have to ride for part of my commute has plenty of signage stating "No Motor Vehicles" allowed. But I still see one fellow riding his moped "thing" every day at 1600hrs and 0630hrs. I have no problems with it. In fact, it's nice to not be the only person out there day in and day out and I make a point to wave big at him every day/night. At least there's one person to find my lifeless body should the unthinkable happen. By the way, his bike uses petrol, hence no "motor", thus it is "technically" not a "motor vehicle". :)

By the way, his bike uses petrol, hence no "motor", thus it is "technically" not a "motor vehicle". :)

Umm, what?

So no-one in England have motor vehicles? And petrol and gas are the same thing...

Still love it, but I just sold my Twist. My brother is not the proud owner of the worlds most fred bike, so I still have visitation privileges.

--A

The MUP I have to ride for part of my commute has plenty of signage stating "No Motor Vehicles" allowed. But I still see one fellow riding his moped "thing" every day at 1600hrs and 0630hrs. I have no problems with it. In fact, it's nice to not be the only person out there day in and day out and I make a point to wave big at him every day/night. At least there's one person to find my lifeless body should the unthinkable happen. By the way, his bike uses petrol, hence no "motor", thus it is "technically" not a "motor vehicle". :)
The local rails to trails bike path also have "No Motor Vehicles" signs at road crossings. There mostly for decoration as no specific laws have been passed actually outlawing motor vehicles on the path. Same goes for horses, 4-wheelers, and motorized farm equipment. There are signs with rules posted but in reality mean nothing. A Deputy Sheriff told me these were nice rules for nice people and people that are not nice may ignore them at their will as no real laws back them. I consequently have no problem with people using electric or ICE motors on bicycles as most of them are designed with a limit of 20 MPH, which is slower than most of the Roadies blasting down the trail with no consideration shown for others. As a matter of fact I have reserved a RevoPower motor-wheel for use on a bicycle, as the design is just so slick I simply must have one! www.revopower.com

I don't have a problem with them, but I strongly question whether they're really as environmentally friendly as people assume. The electricity has to come from some place and frequently it's from burning coal, sometimes even oil. Everything needs energy to move. However an electric bicycle is much lighter than a car so a lot less energy is required to move it the same distance. So they are much friendlier environmentally than a car. Plus they are probably more efficient (i.e., more energy produced by burninig oil/coal in plants goes into work than by burning oil in internal combustion engine - I think...)

In terms of environmental friendly... electric vehicles are far more friendly for one factor that I've heard pointed out elsewhere... its a centralized source rather than a point source of energy production. So if there's some new Magic Free Energy Gizmo, you just replace your coal fired powerplant with MagicCo's Clean Air Thingie and bingo, every single electric vehicle is running on clean energy. In more realistic terms, its easier to make one big smokestack belch out cleaner air than 10,000 tailpipes.

That aside, I'm fine with them and yes, I do get a cheep thrill speeding by them. If it allows people with physical issues to get on a bike, I'm all for it.

There's a guy who commutes into DC on a three-wheeled recumbent that has a big, plastic, home-made looking fairing on the back. The whole thing looks home-made, like a go cart or something. The vehicle is wide enough that it's tough to pass by him on the 14th street bridge (I commute the other way). He cruises along at 15mph and is always smiling, never breathing hard.

One day it occured to me that he could easily have a motor under that fairing. I'm not sure, though. It kind of ticks me off. Three wheels and a motor is pushing it on the crowded NoVa trails.

By the way, his bike uses petrol, hence no "motor", thus it is "technically" not a "motor vehicle". :)

umm...no

Motor:
1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion.
2. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power.

hmm, if we are to accept "a device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy" then I am a motor any time I move--perhaps I should stay off the bike paths? The laws really need to have much more specific definitions.

I own them. I bought second one and got my SO to ride a bike with me. I am also now able to transport my dogs around with it. I ride it 99% of the time now. I would sell my car but its vintage and quite collectible. It has horrible mileage(being a 1960's steel muscle car) so the electric bike is a brazillian times better. I also tell people that there is no excuse for not riding a bike anymore in hilly central San Diego unless you're just really lazy.

Chica,
That's a beauty bike. Way to go.

--A

Don't care one way or the other. I do love blowing pass them like they are standing still on my road bike, then hear them trying to keep up. Silly peole. :D