Electric Bikes - What's up with all the sarcasm for electric bicylists?

My commuting bicycle is a road bike with the Bionx system added. It helps me get around 20% faster and it's a little less sweat and wear on the body. I think it's ideal for commuting. And it's safer on the roads because cars have a little more time to see me from behind.

But I still get the snide remarks when I answer people's question, "what's that thing on your bike" (it's a battery):

"Isn't that cheating?"
"Wooow" (sarcastically by a road who cruised by me.. I was just taking it slow that time)
"That takes all the work out"
"that's cheating man"
"that's being lazy"

If I'm cheating, isn't driving a car to work the ultimate way to cheat? I'm not racing anyone, so I don't get why I still get these remarks. Do other electric bicyclists get these remarks as much as I do?

Are the snide remarks from other cyclists, or people driving hummers?



Just curious.

road cyclists, moms driving SUVs, 300 lb fat asses smoking by the bike racks, etc..

On average people have a tendency to react to different or unusual things with a lack of positivitity.

al

Looking for sympathy in here may not be a positive experience either.

It's like a scooter rider expecting a wave from a motorcyclist. Aint gonna happen.

The roadies are probably threatened that they spent 5000 bucks on carbon fibre, spandex and clif bars to improve their performance, but all you had to do was get an electric motor.

The bottom line is: most people are stupid and they are reluctant to use whatever little brain they do possess.

Once you figure that out, you need not puzzle over their illogical words and actions any longer.

I'll chime in. I think they are silly, ok? My 10y/o son who saw a guy on a bicycle with a 2 stroke motor on the rear buzzing by us at a stoplight said "That's desperate". My wife also says I'm an elitist. I do admit that I am a bit of a purist. But then again I have thought that mopeds were kind of dumb even when I was young. To me, if you're going to go to all that trouble, then just make it 100% electric and call it a scooter. I personally hope to build something like that someday. But I won't call it a bicycle. It'll be a scooter.

But then again, to each his own. I've learned to just say to myself "Hey, at least they're on a bicycle." That is except for the guy with the noisy 2 stroke. Those put out more polution than my V8 Suburban probably does.

The roadies are probably threatened that they spent 5000 bucks on carbon fibre, spandex and clif bars to improve their performance, but all you had to do was get an electric motor.

Yeah, they're really missing out! :rolleyes:

People bike for different reasons. A commuter and a recreational roadie are going to have very different ideals and goals. Leave it at that.

Hi Guys,

Where can you buy batteries used for electric bikes?

I don't get it.
I've got a hardtail commuter, CX, full boat CF roadie, soon to be old skool steal SS, a motor scooter, and a big motorcycle. Still, an electric bike makes no damn sense to me. If it works for you, great. Expect neither sympathy nor judgement from me.

I do not get it either. I can see a place for scooters or motorcycles but do not understand the point of an electric bike. However, I am non judgmental and do not particularly care if someone is "cheating". :rolleyes:
They are just not for me.

I'm intrigued by the concept of regenerative braking on downhills.

I'm intrigued by the concept of regenerative braking on downhills.
I does sound interesting.
http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx_motor_bike_kit.htm

adamtki - can you share more info about your experiences with it, a mini-review type thing?

edit: I did a forum search, perhaps such info has been shared allready. I need to check:
http://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?searchid=3222364

Al

road cyclists, moms driving SUVs, 300 lb fat asses smoking by the bike racks, etc..


try not to worry about it. the roadie making fun of you will also encounter plenty of jabs for wearing spandex or just being on the road. the mom in the SUV will be seen as a monster toward the environment and the 300 lbs person will endure a lifetime of snide comments from people.

we all get our share of it from time to time.

I know many are not familiar with e-bikes. Here are a few things to help people understand how they are different from an electric scooter:

- e-bikes are allowed on trails and sidewalks and anywhere else regular bikes go.
- e-bikes are also lighter (mine's 45 lbs) so I can carry it around like a regular bike.
- e-bikes lets you add your own pedal power, thereby going further on less electricity.

And regarding those gas powered bikes, I don't understand them myself. They pollute and make a lot of noise. I think they're also a little too powerful to be safely allowed on the trails.

I'm intrigued by the concept of regenerative braking on downhills.

That's one of the reasons why I picked bionx. When you brake, the energy from your momentum is all wasted. It'd be great to somehow capture some of that. The regen in Bionx extends the battery by about 10-20% I believe, depending on how much braking you do.

The regen braking also helps reduce the wear on the brakes and improves it during wet days. One situation that's really great is going down long downhills. If I want to control my speed, I can engage the regen brakes and my brake pads never end up getting toasted.

i think it's kinda cool actually. sure as hell beats having another car on the road, that's for sure.

Here's my gig. I hammer my tri-bike on the weekends and as often as possible weekday. My 4 oclock sweat bikes are all mt bikes BUT I am considering one of these to ride on the days I need to go to the office across the valley. The only routes are steep @zz ones and I don't feel like sweat dripping off my body twice in one day. I can't just leave early as the wife runs after I get back at 5 am. An electric assist bike would allow me to get to work on time without grinding the hills. For me it would make sense. If I had to do the whole shower thing again it would really delay my day. The rest of the commute is flat but coming out the valley sucks plain and simple.

If it keeps cagers on 2 wheels all the better.

also, it may just be enough assist to allow someone with an injury (bad knees or joint problem) to enjoy cycling whereas they couldn't before. my dad, with his bad knees, might be interested in a bike like this.

Hi Guys,

My room mate got one of those bikes a few months ago. The house is 3 miles from work location through dense residential streets with uphill all the way back. The motor and battery really do save him some sweating and he's been pretty happy with it (until recently, when he left the power on and accidentally drained the lead-acid pack). I suggested batteryspace.com for getting a new one. Any of you guy's have a suggestion about the best place to pick sealed batteries or if it's worth $200 for upgrading to NiCD or $350 for lithium to save weight?

Depends on the battery. Cheapest reliable vendor seems to be allcorp.com if they have what you're looking for; otherwise, I like all-batteries.com

Bionix is a pretty sophisticated system, and has a huge gadget fator. To me, no different than a StokeMonkey on an Xtracycle if put to good use.

Before I was commuting regularly, I used to dream up full blown velomobiles (recumbent trikes with full fairing) with electric assist, which is how I learned about the Bionix. As I started riding daily, I stopped thinking about them. I chalk that up to the difference between attraction to the machine vs. the spirit of cycling. Motorcycles started out this way, too, and evolved into something very different.

I am told by my Chines co-worker that electric bikes are used to get relatively heavy bikes with few gears up steep grades in China. Otherwise they push the bike up the hill. Seems to make sense.

In china I saw a freight bike with a big load of bricks and an extra guy on the back. The guy gets off and helps push the bike up the hill, then jumps back on for the downhill. I didn't see any electric motors in this application. :)

from the stokemonkey site:

"Most electric bike products are designed for people who don’t, won’t, or can’t ride regular bicycles. Stokemonkey is different. We don’t believe in replacing human power with electricity; we believe in replacing cars for tasks that even the strongest cyclists seldom if ever choose to handle without a car. Developed in a car-free household, Stokemonkey is for fellow riders who want to become more completely independent of cars in their daily lives."

more here--> http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/

I think there are some very good reasons for electric assist.

I think they are pretty novel and a cool idea.
I'd never own one... well, I say that now, but who knows.
Still, it's a cool funky little thing to have.

To each his own. If you like it, and it doesn't take up the huge footprint of an enormous car, why the hell not. A kid on my commute I see sometimes goes to school and back on an electric moped. At relaxed speed I still go faster, and so could he on a bike. Plus their whiny mini-weedwacker engines are obnoxious. Ok so I judge, but I voice my opinion sparingly :)

I suggested batteryspace.com (http://batteryspace.com) for getting a new one. Any of you guy's have a suggestion about the best place to pick sealed batteriesCheapest reliable vendor seems to be allcorp.com (http://allcorp.com) if they have what you're looking for; otherwise, I like all-batteries.com (http://all-batteries.com)
Not that it matters, but batteryspace.com and all-batteries.com are both DBAs of AA Portable Power Corp., 2700 Rydin Road, Unit C, Richmond, CA 94804. I have purchased headlight bulbs and a water bottle battery through batteryspace.com and was mostly satisfied with the goods.

from the stokemonkey site:

"Most electric bike products are designed for people who don’t, won’t, or can’t ride regular bicycles. Stokemonkey is different. We don’t believe in replacing human power with electricity; we believe in replacing cars for tasks that even the strongest cyclists seldom if ever choose to handle without a car. Developed in a car-free household, Stokemonkey is for fellow riders who want to become more completely independent of cars in their daily lives."

more here--> http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/

I think there are some very good reasons for electric assist.
There's this woman I see in my neighborhood on an Xtracycle with one of those Stokemonkeys on it. She's got 2 kids on the back and is usually carrying bags of groceries or some other big load. We've got some hills around here. She does this without using a car, and I think that's great.

To the OP...we just don't see 'em around here. Not sure why.

That's one of the reasons why I picked bionx. When you brake, the energy from your momentum is all wasted. It'd be great to somehow capture some of that. The regen in Bionx extends the battery by about 10-20% I believe, depending on how much braking you do.

The regen braking also helps reduce the wear on the brakes and improves it during wet days. One situation that's really great is going down long downhills. If I want to control my speed, I can engage the regen brakes and my brake pads never end up getting toasted.
10-20% sounds awfully high except under certain conditions -- when you use your brakes to generate electricity, you're going to lose most of the energy in the conversion process. Unless you brake a lot and tend to pedal to accelerate, I can't see those types of gains even though the regen would be handy for speed control and wet braking.

I've thought about electric assist for years, but there's not enough cruising range and by law in the places I've lived, an electric powered bike can only go 20mph with assist. Also, I'm not yet willing to sacrifice part of my ride since any work I don't do won't improve my endurance or strength.

Other products like stokemonkey might technically not be legal in many parts because of the speeds they allow you to attain.

Looking for sympathy in here may not be a positive experience either.

It's like a scooter rider expecting a wave from a motorcyclist. Aint gonna happen.

WRONG. I've been riding and restoring old Vespas and Lambrettas since 1984 and get tons of unprompted waves from tons of motorcyclists from v-twin riders to sport bikers. Why? B/c they've actually been riding for a while and realize it's a big wide, two-wheeled world. My favorite thing to do is pull up to a supposed biker bar on a scooter and see who's game to talk. The interested folks? Veteran riders. The dorks who try and talk sh1t? THe wannabes. (Which is especially funny when their girlfriends get interested in the scooter.)

It's especially funny considering that I ride M/Cs as well, nearly all the guys in my club ride and restore M/Cs, I used to work for the MIC and MSF, and I still assist a club of retired motorcycle racers who are always curious to hear what I'm wrenching on. Meanwhile, what are the Joe Cool RUBs doing? Posing at their local bike night. Yawn...

Anyway, from an OG scooterist and daily bike commuter who's dealt with on-the-road prejudice for longer than he cares to remember, I'd say this to the original poster: Ride what you want. Let your freak flag fly.

10-20% sounds awfully high except under certain conditions -- when you use your brakes to generate electricity, you're going to lose most of the energy in the conversion process. Unless you brake a lot and tend to pedal to accelerate, I can't see those types of gains even though the regen would be handy for speed control and wet braking.

I've thought about electric assist for years, but there's not enough cruising range and by law in the places I've lived, an electric powered bike can only go 20mph with assist. Also, I'm not yet willing to sacrifice part of my ride since any work I don't do won't improve my endurance or strength.

Other products like stokemonkey might technically not be legal in many parts because of the speeds they allow you to attain.


10-20% is just my rough estimate based on experience. I should test it out one day. However, you can read about one guy's report on his velomobile here, http://www.waw-bionx.blogspot.com/. He reports a 43% increase. I just stayed conservative considering mine's not a velomobile.

by law in the places I've lived, an electric powered bike can only go 20mph with assist.

20mph! You're lucky. In the UK they are restricted to 15mph.

20mph! You're lucky. In the UK they are restricted to 15mph.
I'd heard that. Unfortunately for my electric bike aspirations (but fortunately for me), I can still hold 20mph cruising speeds for long periods of time with pedals alone, so the assist would be useless for me unless I'm dealing with wind, hills, or hauling gear. Weight of the batteries and short range is also an issue. However, I imagine I would probably get bionx for my velomobile if I did a lot of shorter hauls in a city with steep roads.

I never could understand why velomobiles are so rare because they are quite practical if they're designed so you can haul a modest amount of cargo and can get in and out easily enough. I get stares wherever I go and people overwhelmingly think it's cool. My neighbors tell me they just love to watch me ride.

BTW, in addition to stokemonkey, you can simply install an electric motor that powers your drivetrain directly. This can give as much power and speed as you want while still letting you provide pedal power. However, adding too big a motor and too much battery weight could cause handling issues.

I've put electric motor kits on bikes for some of the neighbors and they love them. Instead of cranking up a 2-ton vehicle for Wal-Mart 3 miles away they just jump on the e-bike and don’t pedal at all. One of them commutes to work 8 miles to a job dealing with the public requiring a suit and tie. Needless to say arriving sweaty is not going to allow commuting on a regular bike. Several years ago a law was enacted to promote e-bike use so electric bicycles complying with the terms of the law are to be treated the same as any other bicycle. For most states this means you can use the MUP and you don’t need a license, tag, title, insurance, or anything else the state can come up with to suck more money out of you.
http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr03/low.html
E-bikes have their place and are great for the people that have a need for this product.

I personally have an antique Raleigh Beach Cruiser with a Chinese bicycle engine of the 2-stroke Varity. It's fun to get out and cruise around town on it. Everyone that sees it thinks it's an original motorbike from the early 1900's due to the way I have it built. I am always invited to parades and dress the part of an early 1900's motor biker. I use synthetic 2-stroke oil and there is no smoke and dripping oil from the exhaust pipe so I very much doubt it's polluting more than your typical Hummer or other large SUV. I have different bicycles for differing types of riding. A road bike for running with the other roadies. A time trial bike for the Saturday 19-mile time trial loop. A café bike for breakfast runs. And a touring bike with racks and bags. The motorbike is just another bike for a purpose as is an electric bike for its intended purpose.

Last year, at the age of 63, my father, who has been an educator all his life, no manual labour, decided he's going to bike commute until his retirement. And get this, he does it year round, in Calgary. I give him the biggest praise for getting out there and doing it. He's dropped 25 pounds to boot. I'm ultra proud of him, and no amount of ignorant anti-electric sentiments are going to slow him down.

For what I use bikes for (transportation, fun, and exercise [and maybe helping the environment as a by-product]) I don't like electric bikes. You shouldn't care. The best arguments I've read here for them is if they replace a possible car on the road.

Because the reason I ride IS to sweat. And feel the burn through my lungs, heart and throat. To be going at 30MPH, beating cars and knowing that YOU just did that.

For me, it's a lot more fun than sitting on a machine pootling along at a steady 10mph...

Then again, I wouldn't give anyone grief for having an electric bike - different reasons!

Electric assist on bikes,especially with regen braking, sounds like a great idea to me. How much weight does the electric system add-20 lbs maybe??Once you are up to speed on a level surface the added weight hardly matters.
What did it cost? How tought was it to add to the bike.
I have a couple of old mtb frames coming in; maybe one of them would be a good starting point for an electric bike?
Thanks,
Charlie
PS I like everything with wheels-bikes,MCs,cars,trucks,scooters,mopeds,hybrid cars- I had a couple of Puch mopeds during the gas crunch in 1979-80.They got an honest 100 mpg in pure city riding.!!!Wish I still had one!!

If it gets you where you need to go, you enjoy it, and it keeps another cage off the road, then I have nothing against it.

Walmart is now selling these electric assist bicycles.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5391437

http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/69/40/27/61/0069402761463_215X215.jpg

$279.46 plus shipping.

Real transportation for pennies per charge! This Comfort Series electric bicycle has a unisex low-standover-height design with suspension fork and removable battery box. It reaches a top speed of 15 MPH with a range of 18 to 25 miles with normal pedaling. For young adult to adult up to 240 lbs.

* 450W of power from a DC earth magnet Motor
* Plug and Play battery box design with easy-access charger port
* UL-listed Currie Smart Charger with 1-color LED status display
* Top speed: 15 mph (rider weight and terrain contingent)
* Range: up to 25 miles with normal pedaling
* Alloy linear pull brakes
* 26-inch alloy rims
* High-rise handlebars with adjustable rise stem and Krayton grips
*
* Shimano 7-speed gearing with twist throttle
* Comfort design saddle with alloy Post
* Aluminum comfort frame, unisex
* Alloy cotterless crankset and custom chainring with dual sided pedals
* Total weight: 90 lbs

My commuting bicycle is a road bike with the Bionx system added. It helps me get around 20% faster and it's a little less sweat and wear on the body. I think it's ideal for commuting. And it's safer on the roads because cars have a little more time to see me from behind.

But I still get the snide remarks when I answer people's question, "what's that thing on your bike" (it's a battery):

"Isn't that cheating?"
"Wooow" (sarcastically by a road who cruised by me.. I was just taking it slow that time)
"That takes all the work out"
"that's cheating man"
"that's being lazy"

If I'm cheating, isn't driving a car to work the ultimate way to cheat? I'm not racing anyone, so I don't get why I still get these remarks. Do other electric bicyclists get these remarks as much as I do?

A bicycle with a motor on it regardless of how big or small the motor is. Is a MOTORBIKE. When I see someone with a motor on a bicycle one word comes to mind LAZY..LAZY, just LAZY.

Electric assist on bikes,especially with regen braking, sounds like a great idea to me. How much weight does the electric system add-20 lbs maybe??Once you are up to speed on a level surface the added weight hardly matters.
What did it cost? How tought was it to add to the bike.
I have a couple of old mtb frames coming in; maybe one of them would be a good starting point for an electric bike?
This (http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx_motor_bike_kit.htm) seems pretty informative on the BionX. Looks pretty easy to add: build a wheel around the motorized hub, hang the battery on the frame, and run the wiring to the handlebar controller. The advantage of the motorized hub is no structural changes to the bike - move the wheel to whatever bike you happen to be riding today (so long as they share the same rear wheel size).

I like the idea of using power assist to overcome the weight of a fairing or full enclosure, up hills and accelerating to speeds where the aerodynamic advantage kicks in, then cruise under pure pedal power or with only tiny assistance.

A bicycle with a motor on it regardless of how big or small the motor is. Is a MOTORBIKE. When I see someone with a motor on a bicycle one word comes to mind LAZY..LAZY, just LAZY.

Remember, this is the commuting forum. Nothing wrong with going to work or the local Safeway a little faster, a little safer, and a little less sweaty and still not clog the roads and spew out all that planet killing CO2.

Electric assist on bikes,especially with regen braking, sounds like a great idea to me. How much weight does the electric system add-20 lbs maybe??Once you are up to speed on a level surface the added weight hardly matters.
What did it cost? How tought was it to add to the bike.
I have a couple of old mtb frames coming in; maybe one of them would be a good starting point for an electric bike?
Thanks,
Charlie
PS I like everything with wheels-bikes,MCs,cars,trucks,scooters,mopeds,hybrid cars- I had a couple of Puch mopeds during the gas crunch in 1979-80.They got an honest 100 mpg in pure city riding.!!!Wish I still had one!!

Mine added 16 lbs. It cost an arm and a leg, but it was worth it for me. It was easy to install -- it was about as tough as changing a flat.

Sorry, I don't think you're going to win this one. If you wanna wuss out, you have to grow a thicker skin :)

. . . To me, if you're going to go to all that trouble, then just make it 100% electric and call it a scooter. I personally hope to build something like that someday. But I won't call it a bicycle. It'll be a scooter.

But then again, to each his own. . . .


I don't get it. . . . Still, an electric bike makes no damn sense to me. If it works for you, great. Expect neither sympathy nor judgment from me.
I mostly agree with these points. If an electric bike works for you, fine. I'm happy you found a useful form of transportation. I won't sneer at you on the roads or in these forums. But once you put a non-human motor on a two-wheeled vehicle, it is a scooter, a moped or a motorcycle--not a bicycle.

Anything that involves a motor will always be an oddity in a forum devoted to cycling. Oddities are fine (heck, I commute to work by bike!), but I think I would get a similar reaction if I started a discussion on bicycle commuting in a forum devoted to scooters or motorcycles.

I don't own, or want, an electric bike, but I can't imagine caring that somebody else does. If the choice is between them driving their energy consuming, polluting car, or a much lighter, smaller, lower consuming bike, then I'm thrilled that they're on the bike. As far as "why put pedals on it at all", well, it seems to me that sometimes you might flatten the battery? Surely being able to get the thing home in those circumstance is a bonus? Plus, some people probably use the electric power just to climb hills or whatever. These aren't people who have thrown over their cycle commute to use electric, they're people who would otherwise be driving cars, and for my money an electric bike is WAY better than a car.

I simply don't see what all the fuss is about. Electric assist makes a lot of sense. I don't want it on any of my bikes, for a number of personal reasons. Other folks may have personal reasons for deciding that they do want it - more power to them. If electric assist gets more people riding a bike who otherwise would not choose to cycle, it sounds like an excellent idea to me. I believe that it does do this! That sounds like a win for bicycling and for reducing the environmental impact of how we recreate and/or get to work everyday.

And for what it's worth, if I purchased an Xtracycle or other cargo-hauling bicycle and was using it to haul a couple of children and a few bags of groceries around town on a regular basis, you can bet your butt that I would be throwing some kind of electric assist on there. Living car-free and performing many of the tasks for which we would usually choose a car is difficult to do on human power alone. What's more, calling the use of electric assist "cheating," is discouraging to people of smaller size and strength or reduced physical fitness due to injury, handicaps or illness. Changing the world can't happen unless we make alternatives accessible to everyone without making them feel as if they are lesser human beings for choosing electric assist. It's a big part of what makes car-free or car-lite living possible for many people, and that's not something to sneer about. It you're concerned about people "cheating" by not making the push on physical effort, you're in the wrong forum - that kind of sentiment might be appropriate in the Road Cycling forum. But we're in Commuting, here. It's not about a race, it's not about best times, it's not about getting a good workout. It's about getting to work and back on a bicycle and how to make that possible for as many people as possible.