Commuting - Help me! I need an all-arounder!

Yes, another "which bike should I get" thread... :)

So, my trusty beater seems to be on its last legs, and I think at this point it would be unwise to pour more money into it. So I have finally decided to (yay!) get me a new bike. And, of course, I'm quite overwhelmed with the options. Of course I'm doing research (the huge number of possibilities out there is both delightful and frustrating :)) and of course I'll be doing a lot of test rides, but I thought I'd ask for some advice on the BF as well since there is an enormous wealth of collective knowledge on here. I wonder if you, guys, can throw around some names and/or give some pointers if I describe what kind of bike I want.

MISSION: Everything. :) Commuting (one of primary functions, hence posting here), light to mid-loaded touring, long recreational rides - you name it. Mostly pavement, but occasional curb-jumping or slight off-roading as well (nothing too technical). I intend to put a lot of miles on that bike.

PRICE RANGE: I can stretch it to about $2000, but I'd be happier to get away with something under $1500.

REQUIREMENTS:

1) The bike should FUN to ride. It should want and beg to go FAST. :) I guess I want something as close to a light zippy road bike as I can get as long as it meets the rest of the requirements below.

2) The bike should be tough. It should handle an occasional curb hop or some rough roads. For this reason I'd like to steer clear of carbon since I just don't trust it. Steel is good, but I'm willing to consider aluminum if that helps the bike meet requirement #1. I'd prefer to have something with good stock wheels as well (if such a thing exists, of course). At 120 pounds I'm not the heaviest of riders, but sometimes I do put stuff in the panniers...

3) There should be a way to attach a rear rack. A set of eyelets for fenders would be nice as well, but it is possible to mount fenders in other ways (as I did before), so that's not a deal-breaker. But there should be enough clearance for fenders and wider tires if I want them. The possibility to mount a front rack is a nice option, but not crucial. I do intend to do some loaded touring on that bike, but I try to keep my loads light, so rear panniers should probably be ok on their own.

4) Reliable and easy to service. I'd like to keep it simple, so no disc brakes. Bar-end shifters rather than STI. No exotic componentry (although it may be ok in some cases since I might be able to arrange it to be swapped for something more common).

5) The bike should be comfortable. I do want some speed on unloaded weekend rides, but since I want to tour with that bike as well, it can't really have a tri-like geometry. A little bit of slack would be nice. But then I am young and flexible, so can probably get away with something slightly more aggressive than traditional touring bike geometry if that makes the handling more fun and responsive as per requirement #1. :)

Right now I'm considering touring and cyclocross bikes. I've been lusting after some dedicated road bikes, but I wouldn't want to put them through the stress of daily commutes and potholy roads. I've been leaning more towards cyclocross since they're closer to road bikes, but perhaps there are some bikes built for lighter touring that fit the bill as well. Any ideas? Suggestions? Caveats?

rocky mountain sherpa 30. Reynolds 853 frame for lightness and comfort. Normally reynolds 853 is found on racing bikes. It's a full touring bike so it has all the racks attachments. It has STI, but you can change this out for about $100-$150 or you could use the STI until it dies and then just go with the bar end shifters later.

Luckly you, Rocky Mountain is a Canadian company. I'd love to get my hands on a Sherpa 30 : there's no rocky mountain dealers nearby.

I'm going to be boring here and give the standard answer of a Surly Cross-Check. I haven't ridden one myself, but everything I've read on here (and have heard from others talking about it) suggests it's right up your alley.


MISSION: Everything. Commuting (one of primary functions, hence posting here), light to mid-loaded touring, long recreational rides - you name it. Mostly pavement, but occasional curb-jumping or slight off-roading as well (nothing too technical). I intend to put a lot of miles on that bike.
Pretty much what it was designed to do.


PRICE RANGE: I can stretch it to about $2000, but I'd be happier to get away with something under $1500.
Are you talking Canadian dollars, or US dollars? Either way, $1,500 should get you a nicely equipped bike. The basic built-up model, the Cross-Check complete, goes for about US$1,000. If you build it yourself, you could get something seriously nice for $1,500


1) The bike should FUN to ride. It should want and beg to go FAST.
OK, perhaps not super-fast, but I've heard many stories about it just being a fun bike


2) The bike should be tough. It should handle an occasional curb hop or some rough roads.
It's a cyclocross frame, and can handle real day-to-day use. It won't fear curbs or trails. Steel, like you say, is good.


3) There should be a way to attach a rear rack. A set of eyelets for fenders would be nice as well, but it is possible to mount fenders in other ways (as I did before), so that's not a deal-breaker. But there should be enough clearance for fenders and wider tires if I want them. The possibility to mount a front rack is a nice option, but not crucial.
Plenty of clearance for fenders, even with fat tires. Has rear rack bosses.


4) Reliable and easy to service. I'd like to keep it simple, so no disc brakes. Bar-end shifters rather than STI. No exotic componentry (although it may be ok in some cases since I might be able to arrange it to be swapped for something more common).
Yup, yup, yup, and yup.


5) The bike should be comfortable. I do want some speed on unloaded weekend rides, but since I want to tour with that bike as well, it can't really have a tri-like geometry.
Everything I've read and heard about this bike says it is comfortable to ride. Again, steel is good! And, if you want, you can easily strip it down for an unloaded weekend ride.

I'm still planning to get one for myself when time, space, and money allow. Good luck with your search!

+1 on the Surly Cross Check.

a Rans V-Rex recumbent (great multi purpose recumbent) or
+1 on the Surly Cross Check- get a frame, build the level of components
you want/need. if you want to carry a lot of stuff, swap out the CC fork
with a LHT fork to get the front rack mounts.
i ride a recumbent during "good weather" and the Cross Check the other
times. IMO if one has to ride an upwrong bike it is a pretty satisfactory ride;
with a good balance of comfort, speed, durability and affordability.

rocky mountain sherpa 30. Reynolds 853 frame for lightness and comfort. Normally reynolds 853 is found on racing bikes. It's a full touring bike so it has all the racks attachments. It has STI, but you can change this out for about $100-$150 or you could use the STI until it dies and then just go with the bar end shifters later. Interesting suggestion. There are several Rocky Mountain dealers in Toronto (there have to be SOME perks to living here :D). Interestingly they are not the stores I normally go to, so it's probably not a bike I would've noticed otherwise. Thanks, I'll check it out. :)


I'm going to be boring here and give the standard answer of a Surly Cross-Check. :) Yep, Cross-Check is definitely one of the bikes I'm considering. I wish I could find one to test-ride (I do know of at least one dealer around here... but I don't know if they have complete bikes... will check it out.)


upwrong :)

Recumbents are neat, but I probably would stick with upwrong for a few reasons.


Are you talking Canadian dollars, or US dollars? Yes, I should've clarified this. Let's say U.S. (although the exchange rate right now is something like 1.1 Canadian per 1 U.S., so it's close to the same thing).

:) Yep, Cross-Check is definitely one of the bikes I'm considering. I wish I could find one to test-ride (I do know of at least one dealer around here... but I don't know if they have complete bikes... will check it out.)


I'm almost positive that they have some at Urbane... but that's probably the place you were thinking of :). I think Curbside also carries some. At least, they do on their Web site.

Man, I miss Toronto bike shops! I'll be visiting this summer and will likely leave significantly poorer :D

Chephy's either getting a CrossCheck or a JTS and swapping out the brifters...

Choice #1: Jamis Nova (the bike I ride). It's listed as a cyclocross bike.
Choice #2: Jamis Aurora. It's listed as a light touring bike.

There is a reason the Surly Cross Check is the standard answer to this question.

It'll do all the things you have requested. It's my all purpose bike. If it got stolen I'd buy the exact same bike the next day. Not at specialty bike it's an all around bike.

Build a Cross Check

You could build a Salsa Casseroll (salsacycles.com/casseroll.html) for that kind of money, it's steel and fits your other requirements. I love my La Raza.
Hang a Nexus 8 on it and use a chain tensioner (I think one called a Doofer (http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=123) works very well).

Consider a MTB frame-rigid of front suspended-.
You aren't price limited, but for those who are you can buy-delivered-a DB Chrome Moly(true temper or tange) 21 SPEED ~1995 mtb for about $90-150.It will arrive weighing 26+ lbs with roughly older LX or maybe a notch below components.The ft wheel/tire will weigh 2100 grams-rear about 2500-depends on tires/tubes of course.
You can easily-and cheaply($150 used) by the $1500 price limit-get a ft=1400 rear = 1800 tire/tube/wheelset.This will drop it to 23lbs.
Used XTR crankset-lose another 1lb-and $150-other components another lb and $200.Voile' 21lb bike for $650.
You can go a bit upstream and start with a 853 frame-1lb less maybe(add $250). Or go to high end aluminum-1.5lbs less(add $150).Titanium-about 1lb less than 853-maybe $400 extra $$.CF-about like Titanium.
You can't match the 16-17 lbs of a highend road bike-maybe get as low as 20 lbs for a rigid MTB.
You can come close to the low rolling resistance with 1.25" mtb slicks at 80 psi.
The bike will take a heck of a beating(especially if steel),and will be trail capable, or grass capable(certainly curb jumping/ramming capable(better brakes also).
Just a thought.DB steel MTBs-used-are a bargain now.There is zero "vintage" interest in them.They just aren't as pretty or elegant as older Brit.Japanese/Italian/French road bikes.
Luck,
Charlie

You could build a Salsa Casseroll (salsacycles.com/casseroll.html) for that kind of money, it's steel and fits your other requirements. Cool. Sounds interesting.

Consider a MTB frame-rigid of front suspended-. That's exactly what my ailing beater is: a steel rigid mtb from the 90's with narrow slicks. For a beater, that's my favourite style of bike: cheap, versatile, sturdy. I like it so much in fact that I have another partially disassembled bike like that lying around that I bought used for rather little cash. But for my new bike I want something... new... and different. :) But as you do say, it's not a bad route for the budget-conscious.

Cool. Sounds interesting.
The Cassaroll is in the about $550, and the La Raza is just shy of $700. The real big difference is the La Raza has a carbon fork. Both have fender/rack eyelets, the Cassaroll has more though. The La Raza's geometry is more compact, and the Cassaroll can handle a larger tire. I can run 25mm and maybe 28 without fenders, but with my fenders I am running 23mm tires.

Uh, yeah, proud Crosscheck owner here too.

The cassaroll looks pretty neat. You won't be able to go as big with the tires on it as you would with the crosscheck. What type of brake mounts does it have? Only being able to use calipers may limit tire size/choices. Anyways, I've run 28 slicks on pretty rough gravel and you have to pick your line carefully, but it's quite doable.

As far as complete bikes go, literally the only ones I know of with bar ends instead of brifters are the crosscheck and 520. Actually the Rocky Mountain touring model might as well, but for your uses, the 520 is probably too much of a loaded tourer (though it is a great bike, with components thoughtfully selected, instead of the standard formula of one group for everything with the rear derailler one step up for the bling factor).

Of course, you can just change the shifters and brake levers on any bike pretty easily and not be out very much money, as even the highest quality barcons are not going to be over 120 bucks or so. If you get the Dura-Ace ones, you even get that small thrill of being able to say you have D-A components on your bike:D (well, I get a kick out of it anyways).

Another tricky part of your request is your aversion to carbon. Not that I don't understand your sentiment, it's just that most bikes in that range are going to have a carbon fork. the Lemond Poprad used to have either an Al or steel fork, but now I believe it is carbon. The trek XO-1 might be a good fit. It's one of their two cross models, and it's aluminum framed with a steel fork. Other models that used to have steel forks like the Jake The Snake have since been moved to carbon.

Because of our requirements, you may end up wanting to do your own build. Of course, then the whole package costs more in total. Good luck though.

Just to have the devil's advocate.

If you like the bike, its time to just swap the components, heck with the cost. Make it your bike.

I've done it a couple of times, about the same cost as a new bike, but when you are done, its yours and no compromises.

Another tricky part of your request is your aversion to carbon. Not that I don't understand your sentiment, it's just that most bikes in that range are going to have a carbon fork. the Lemond Poprad used to have either an Al or steel fork, but now I believe it is carbon. The trek XO-1 might be a good fit. It's one of their two cross models, and it's aluminum framed with a steel fork. Other models that used to have steel forks like the Jake The Snake have since been moved to carbon. Yes, this seems to be a bit of a stumbling block (unless, of course, one goes Cross-Check :)). I looked up XO-1, and it seems that the fork is actually aluminum. Weird, I don't know of that many bikes with an aluminum fork, really. If I can get my hands on it, I'd definitely test-ride it... I mean, there is no harm in test-riding. ... Anyway, perhaps I should open myself up to a possibility of a carbon fork. It's not as though I'm going to mount a front rack and stick 50 pounds of gear on it. And I the many advantages of carbon are quite appealing....


Because of our requirements, you may end up wanting to do your own build. Of course, then the whole package costs more in total. Good luck though. Thanks. I am sure it's going to be an exciting quest. :)

If you like the bike, its time to just swap the components, heck with the cost. Make it your bike. By "the bike" you mean some new bike that doesn't quite fit all my component requirements or my beater? The beater frame is too bit heavy and sluggish to merit an upscale conversion. But if I do find a bike that I just love the feel of, I definitely would be willing to swap components even if it means spending a bit of extra cash.

You could build a Salsa Casseroll (salsacycles.com/casseroll.html) for that kind of money, it's steel and fits your other requirements. I love my La Raza.
Hang a Nexus 8 on it and use a chain tensioner (I think one called a Doofer (http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=123) works very well).

That Casseroll is nice! It seems that a chain tensioner isn't needed, though -- specs say it has horizontal dropouts. Anyone here have personal experience with one of these?

That Casseroll is nice! It seems that a chain tensioner isn't needed, though -- specs say it has horizontal dropouts. Anyone here have personal experience with one of these?
The small view looks like vertical dropouts, the larger vew (http://salsacycles.com/images/zoom_casseroll.jpg) however shows them to be horizontal.

Absolutely the Casseroll then.

+1 on the Cross-Check. As I've said before. If I could have only one bike... The Cross-Check would be the one. I like mine so much I rode a century on it this weekend.

it sounds like you want a touring or cyclocross type of bike - but make sure that you are comfortable taking streetcar tracks at a shallow angle with those wheels before you leap into that type of arrangement.

Second, are you going to be parking this bike anywhere? I've had three bikes stolen so far, and there is no way I would park a $1500 bike anywhere on the street in TO (krypto NY be damned!). If you are planning to ride this set of wheels to watch spider-man3 at the Paramount, you may want to reconsider.

I used to frequently lock my Bad Boy outside the Paramount with a Bic-able Evo 2000 (didn't know about the Bic thing at the time, of course...). Never had any problems, but it does kind of give me the willies to think about it now.

Second, are you going to be parking this bike anywhere? I've had three bikes stolen so far, and there is no way I would park a $1500 bike anywhere on the street in TO (krypto NY be damned!). If you are planning to ride this set of wheels to watch spider-man3 at the Paramount, you may want to reconsider. Exactly! I totally agree and that's the reason I haven't even bothered to have a good bike for so long... No, if I'm not walking or taking the subway to the Paramount, it's going to be the beater for sure - as well as for other shorter trips. The new bike would be more for weekend riding, touring remote places where bikes don't get stolen (:rolleyes:) and commuting to places where I can keep it indoors or in a somewhat secure parking area. Well, I might lock it outside sometimes (especially if I can see it from where I am indoors), but I'm quite paranoid about theft, so I'd avoid doing that at night, or around neighbourhoods known for bike theft, or regularly at the same place at the same time. It's gonna be my bike and I sure as hell will try to keep it that way.

I've been looking for this type of bike myself. I settled on the Volpe, but that was mainly due to finding one at a good price than anything else. I'd be interested in what you finally settle on. From what I've read about these types of bikes, they don't do anything outstanding, but do just about everything pretty well. That's good enough for me. I think you can't go wrong with the Surly or any of the others mentioned here. Biggest thing is fit.

You could visit Urbane again and take a look at their Urbanites, you basically custom build it from the frame up, if you choose - and they're great tourer/commuters from what I've gathered (this is one of my considerations for a tourer).

Have fun with your new ride, whichever bike it is. I suggest you go and test ride all of the 'contenders' and choose the one that feels the best.

<envy>

What's it take to make a bike go fast? I am totally high on my lht complete, 600 miles (and ~3.5 wks) along, which probably means the cross check would go faster, but I have topography and loads that make the double on the CC-complete not really feasible. I guess my bike wants and begs to GO, period, and a lot of that does wind up being fast...

I love my Crosscheck too but if that Salsa Casseroll had been available last year I might have changed my mind. It's like a pound lighter and it's handmade in the USA; hmmm, I might have to trade up.

What's it take to make a bike go fast? Mostly the rider, actually... :)


I guess my bike wants and begs to GO, period, and a lot of that does wind up being fast... That must be a good feeling. I know I'm describing things in strange terms, but I think lots of people know the feeling of a bike that wants to GO vs. a bike that just kinda doesn't mind going. :)


You could visit Urbane again and take a look at their Urbanites, you basically custom build it from the frame up, if you choose - and they're great tourer/commuters from what I've gathered Yes, that was one of the bikes I was considering. Maybe they're a tad too much on the loaded touring side... but one does have a lot of options in outfitting the bike. I'll probably test-ride a lot of bikes from Urbane: Surlys if they have them assembled, Volpe, Urbanite... Looking forward to it. As soon as I get over this damn cold! I've been lying in bed sick for the last few days fantasizing about my new bike. :)


I love my Crosscheck too but if that Salsa Casseroll had been available last year I might have changed my mind. It's like a pound lighter and it's handmade in the USA It does look just like the kind of bike I'm looking for. More of a road bike than Cross-Check, and I will stay mostly on-road. But I wouldn't buy it without test-riding it and I don't know if I can find a built-up bike nearby to test-ride.

Specialized Tricross Comp. STIs, no bar ends, but you can switch out easily. I also think STIs are very tough and very reliable. Eyelets for racks front and rear. 32c tires that are very durable and no flats as of yet. You can switch to skinnys for fast riding. Carbon fork, but beefy and I don't even worry about it.

Not to derail this thread, but does Rocky Mountain sell the Sherpa frame only?

Interesting suggestion. There are several Rocky Mountain dealers in Toronto (there have to be SOME perks to living here :D). Interestingly they are not the stores I normally go to, so it's probably not a bike I would've noticed otherwise. Thanks, I'll check it out. :)

:) Yep, Cross-Check is definitely one of the bikes I'm considering. I wish I could find one to test-ride (I do know of at least one dealer around here... but I don't know if they have complete bikes... will check it out.)

:)

Recumbents are neat, but I probably would stick with upwrong for a few reasons.

Yes, I should've clarified this. Let's say U.S. (although the exchange rate right now is something like 1.1 Canadian per 1 U.S., so it's close to the same thing).

I own a Rocky Mountain Sherpa 30. I love my bike. I tend to use it more as a commuter and recreational ride bike so I switched out the wheels (to Mavic Open Pro's) and tires (to Continental GP 4 seasons.) It's a tough bike, yet fairly light for a touring bike (It's the Reynolds 853 steel) and rocky mountain's specialty is there mountain bike frames. I prefer the STI shifters to bar-ends... but like people say, that's easy to swap.

The other suggestions in the forum are also great bikes. For your purposes the Surly Cross Check sounds like a pretty nice bike. If you want fast - road fast... then I also really like the Specialized Tri Cross. Someone suggested the Bianchi Volpe.. it's nice, but I found that the chainstays were a little too short for when I wanted to use my panniers (also, the '07 model doesn't have the option for front panniers if you ever wanted them for touring.)

I feel really confident in the research that I did prior to buying my bike. I too, was looking for a great all around bike. I'll recommend the Rocky Mountain Sherpa 30 as my number one pick to anyone that wants something in this category of cycles.

I have a Cross-Check & absolutely love it. It does everything, but does it very well. It handles better than the Litespeed Classic that it replaced. I tow a trailer with it, commute, & train with the fastest road racers in the area. I wouldn't hesitate to road race on it, but I'm not racing at the moment. Since, I assembled it, I have not ridden & have not wanted to ride anything else. If you want something that does everything well, I would avoid a frame that will not accept a tire width of 35 or so.

Yes, this seems to be a bit of a stumbling block (unless, of course, one goes Cross-Check :)). I looked up XO-1, and it seems that the fork is actually aluminum. Weird, I don't know of that many bikes with an aluminum fork, really. Wow, you're right. Either they changed it or I was just super wrong. I could have sworn the 05 model I was looking at buying used had a steel fork...hm. The only serious bikes still being made with Al forks are cross bikes, and even those are rather rare. I'd be kind of nervous of an aluminum fork--you'd think a cross bike would want to dampen the vibrations? Maybe because cross races are so short it's about being light and strong and comfort is less a factor? odd. Maybe someone who rides cross can explain this. Er, without hijaking the thread like me.

If you decide to build a bike, you could also mix and match frames and forks instead of buying a frameset. For example if you're doing mostly a road riding but want a steel fork you could use the surly pacer fork. with the LHT or crosscheck frame. I think they're compatible?

For what it's worth though, I think Salsa is cooler than Surly. Just my overvalued 2 cents.

A few comments on the very good suggestions you had above.

I'm with you regarding steel. Aluminium frames are good, especially if you get one with a steel fork, but many (most?) aluminium frames tend to be welded with big fatty TIG welds. The welds done on steel look much nicer. As for carbon, it may be as good if well done, but I find there is too much pampering needed for my taste.

I have a 520 (albeit with a mountain crankset), and it's everything you want, except it's not "begging to go fast" but rather "begging to keep you on all day". Not sporty enough for your taste. I presume the Surly LHT would feel the same, is cheaper (at least in U.S.) and accepts 700x37 tires front and rear with fenders. The Crosscheck is sportier, but is also a bit shorter, so if would feel better on aggressive or sporty rides, but not as good for loaded touring (or loaded groceries...). Anyway, I think the behavioural differences would be relatively minor in all cases.


Finally, if you buy a bike that uses STI, you should get a credit if you ask the bike shop to swap them for regular brake levers and bar-end shifters.

I have a Cross Check and I find it a little too slack to be a "fun" bike but it's a GREAT commuter bike. It will also take huge tires for your off-road enjoyment.

I had similar requirements but I weigh 220 instead of 120 so durability and toughness are more important than bike weight. My new Cross Check built to my specs should be ready this weekend. There are so many good reviews on the bike and it is one of the few road frames that can fit 40+mm tires with fenders and a fixed gear drive train. You have a little more flexibility because you want a geared bike. In addition you should have no problem with frame durability on any bike. Still I think the Cross Check has to be a top contender. The LHT and Trek 520 are probably going to be too sedate for your tastes.

Craig

So here, if anybody cares, is an update. I finally managed to get out today and test-ride some bikes. Makes choosing more difficult than ever since most of them felt darn good...

Urbanite Touring

Toronto's Urbane Cyclist's very own touring bicycle built up to your specs. Comes in dark green (handy for stealth camping). Feels good. Nice solid bike, not too sluggish.

Bianchi Volpe

Another bike that feels damn good. Comes with a very wallet-friendly price tag. It was a little difficult to get a good idea of how it rides since it came with clipless pedals and I didn't have clipless shoes on. But there is definitely nothing wrong with it.

Devinci Caribou

A touring bike by a Canadian company. Unforunately the geometry didn't work for me at all. My back was too upright and the arms are too stretched out. And if I lean further, the arms are ok, but the butt slides off the saddle. This happened with both the Medium and the Large frame. Swapping stems and such would probably do something, but I don't know if it's worth bothering with.

Devinci Tosca SL 2

This bike I really loved! Just really enjoyed the way it rides and handles. Also the secondary brake levers on the tops are really handy. The only thing is that the bike seemed slower than other bikes when accelerating, but maybe that's because of the tires - it had thicker and much knobbier tires than any other bike I rode today. Unfortunately the store I went to only had it in Large. The geometry actually works very well for me, but the standover height is a bit of an issue - I have maybe an inch of clearance. Makes me a little nervous. Also it is an aluminum bike with a carbon fork - something I was going to stay away from. :) And I'd have to modify the gearing some to be able to tour on it. And it is closer to the upper end of my price range... It costs half again as much as the Volpe, and I doubt it's half again as much performance-wise. Actually components seem a bit on the low end for the price tag. But the bike rides niiiiiice.....


Unfortunately I couldn't test-ride any Cross-checks. Some shops had some in stock, but not in my size.

I got a Volpe for an all purpose bike. It serves me well . That was only my second bike and I am not up on what other bikes my offer. The Volpe does not have a flashy paint job which may help with security.

I got a Volpe for an all purpose bike. It serves me well . That was only my second bike and I am not up on what other bikes my offer. The Volpe does not have a flashy paint job which may help with security. Yes, I like the low-key paintjob on Volpe. Also the Volpe I test-rode has one little paint chip. That could actually be good 'cause I won't be paranoid about scratching the bike (already scratched! :)) and because I might negotiate a little discount for this cosmetic defect.

Thanks for the update. Urbanites are solid bikes, as you know. Did you consider one of their road frames? They can do fenders and racks, and might be a bit sportier than the touring model. Just a thought.

I have a Cross Check and I find it a little too slack to be a "fun" bike but it's a GREAT commuter bike. It will also take huge tires for your off-road enjoyment.

+1, my cross check is a great ride but no speed demon. With a 48t 36t crank there is a limit to the speed, anyway. The 48t 36t is a good fit for riding with cargo.

Here is a fine bike made in Canada. (http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/EN/Bikes/Touring/Turismo.htm)

Yes, I like the low-key paintjob on Volpe. Also the Volpe I test-rode has one little paint chip. That could actually be good 'cause I won't be paranoid about scratching the bike (already scratched! :)) and because I might negotiate a little discount for this cosmetic defect.

I'm a little worried about that myself. I got my 2006 Volpe yesterday. Taking it out for it's maiden voyage today. Got it off Craigslist for $650. I swear it looks like it hasn't been ridden at all. Not one mark on it. If you find one you like, you might look around at what you can get used like this.

Here is a fine bike made in Canada. (http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/EN/Bikes/Touring/Turismo.htm)

I think the Marinoni Fango might be more what the OP is looking for, but that is a fine bike. And I've tracked down a Toronto shop carrying them, too! http://www.bikespecialties.com/. (Edit: don't know anything about these guys, though)

I think the Marinoni Fango might be more what the OP is looking for That's the weirdest and neatest lacing pattern I've ever seen in my life! :D (I know, I haven't seen that many :)).


And I've tracked down a Toronto shop carrying them, too! http://www.bikespecialties.com/. (Edit: don't know anything about these guys, though) Cool! From the description it would appear though that these people don't really have much stock; they just place orders with manufacturers. And as I said before I am very hesitant to order something I couldn't test-ride, especially after finding out yesterday how poorly some bikes in "my" size can fit.