Foo - Martial Arts

Lately, I've been thinking about taking some form of MA.
I would like to learn more about self defense, but my primary goals would be increased flexibility, strength and speed.
What are the advantages of different forms?
Thanks in advance for any information.

ps. Asking here since I know several practitioners frequent foo.

My best advise, from 7 years total of various practice, is to avoid ANY form of traditional martial arts. Anything bound to silly traditions will waste time. If you lived in michigan I could refer you to some very good people, but I know nothing of Georgia.

I found a very good self defense school with teachers with violent pasts who really know their stuff. Thing is, the way a street fight goes down and the way martial arts sparring goes down are fundamentaly different, and thats why I now avoid common martial arts.

On the other hand, if you don't want to learn unarmed combat so much as flexibility and speed, my favorite thing for that category is fencing. As for strength, most martial arts schools will get you some strength, but the key to gaining muscle is lifting weights.

I know this sounds girly but try Pilates or Yoga. If your wanting to get more flexable this is a GREAT way to do this and strengthen your core :)

Find an MMA school.

I know this sounds girly but try Pilates or Yoga. If your wanting to get more flexable this is a GREAT way to do this and strengthen your core :)

Or Tai Chi.

I took Jeet Kune Do for a few years when I was younger and really enjoyed it - non-traditional, improved my body and mind, and gave me some peace of mind. Strength increased, especially in my hands, abs, and forearms. Speed increased greatly. Flexibility increased only modestly, mostly b/c of my body. We did some pretty intense stretching.

I also did a couple of Krav Maga classes a few years ago and had my rotator cuff screwed up by an over-enthusiastic martial arts newbie. I can see strength and speed increasing from KM, but I don't know about flexibility as I wasn't around long enough to know if it's emphasized.

I'm trying to find a MA here in Austin as well, but wondering if mid 30s is too late in life to start one. :( If anyone has any suggestions of an Austin school, PM me.

Isn't Jeet Kune Do Bruce Lee's style?

I forgot about that one. I have no experice with that style, but I agree with its principals for sure.

Isn't Jeet Kune Do Bruce Lee's style?



Yep.

Find an MMA school.

+ a billion.

I studied for about 6 years (Tang Soo Do - like a Korean Tae Kwon Do) - and damned if 1/3rd of it will help in a real-world scrap.

MMA (Mixed-martial arts) will teach you karate, kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, jiu jitsu, whatever, and the defense of each...much more akin to a real-life situation where you don't know what or who you might face.

Core strength and flexibility will be included, by default.

ps. In a good MMA school, you WILL get kicked, punched, knocked out, and submitted. You will feel real pain, and one of the benefits of that is that if you ever do get into a scrap, you won't be panicked by the pain.

In my years of training, I was kicked or punched with force only a handful of times, and always with padded boots and gloves. Maybe it was the school I chose, or the regimented style of instruction, but I think the instructor kept contact to a minimum to preserve his client base and keep his insurance down.

I studied for about 6 years (Tang Soo Do - like a Korean Tae Kwon Do) - and damned if 1/3rd of it will help in a real-world scrap.

Precisely. The only remotely good experience from any form of karate I've seen is sparring, and again, that doesn't have a hell of a lot to do with a real fight.

Siu would also agree with you on the MMA thing, but I think its overly complicated. Although I haven't had time to practice this past school year, the place I studied at most recently teaches directly from Kill Or Get Killed, the Military combat manual. It keeps everything really simple, and very effective. Best of all, they do everything the book covers, unarmed, pepper spray, clubs, knives, and guns. Before his death, many of the teachers studied under the author Rex Applegate. Unfortunately, schools of that quality are extremely difficult to find.

In my years of training, I was kicked or punched with force only a handful of times, and always with padded boots and gloves.

Padding is always a good idea. I got kicked real hard in the upper chest by a guy once, breaking a couple ribs. He was wearing padded boots, and I was wearing a vest. Had we not been wearing padding, I can say with confidence that kick would have killed me.

I've found marital arts to be far more humane and satisfying. ;)

Isn't Jeet Kune Do Bruce Lee's style?

I forgot about that one. I have no experice with that style, but I agree with its principals for sure.


He would not consider it a style. That's the antithesis of Jeet Kune Do principles.

I would reccomend reading his book.

If you want it all...seriously consider Aikido.

What book is that?

My mom is a librarian, and I can get any book I want for wholesale.

First post here, I should introduce myself, but too lazy. I do have some strong opinions though, because I wasted my time in a school that taught zero self defense abilities, other than doing kata, pumping push-ups, and bowing to the instructor.

Most MAs out there tend to be just there for sports. TKD, karate, etc.

You can't defend you or your loved ones by doing kata, so a martial art that forces people to do kata by rote is just an aerobic regimen, and is screwing its students when a situation comes that needs actual combat skills.

Its hard to find a MA that is actually worth its salt when its needed.

Its hard to find a MA that is actually worth its salt when its needed.

Again, I humbly suggest Aikido.

What book is that?


Tao of Jeet Kune Do by Bruce Lee.

I would suggest a JKD school, but authentic ones are really rare.

The basic principles of JKD and Aikido are the same, however the approaches are very different.

JKD evolved from Wing Chung, and is very explosive with a lot of kicks. Aikido evolved from Bushido/Akijitsu, and is more of a military Samurai-style of martial art with little kicking and a lot of fencing technique.

You know, I've studied many different styles and trained with people from Rolier Gracie to Ali Elias, and many other well known individuals. Every style (even those with "no-style") have their own strengths and weaknesses, but only one will feel like "home." For me, that is Aikido, but it may well be different for you. Go sit in a bunch of different dojos or gyms and take notes - take an introductory class if you like - My co-Sensei and I never charge anyone for their first month, but we're fairly generous on that score. Then make up your mind.

You know, I've studied many different styles and trained with people from Rolier Gracie to Ali Elias, and many other well known individuals. Every style (even those with "no-style") have their own strengths and weaknesses, but only one will feel like "home." For me, that is Aikido, but it may well be different for you.


Did you train with Gracie in Miami? That's where I'm from, and met him during Brasil Carnival at the International many years ago.

As I recall, he didn't seem to blink.

+ a billion.

(Tang Soo Do - like a Korean Tae Kwon Do) - and damned if 1/3rd of it will help in a real-world scrap.



Tae Kwon Do is Korean...and if you avoid the pitiful Joe Corley style American gyms (calling them dojos is a stretch), then you would be surprised how effective it is in a "real world scrap".

Good luck finding real martial arts training in the states. Avoid any "master" with less than thirty years experience.


To become a master takes ten years to master the motions, ten years to master your mind, and ten years to forget everything you thought you mastered and return to the basics. That's the only way to be qualified to teach another person the basics, to return to white belt.

Wow, lots of misconceptions regarding MMA here. I would recommend staying away from any MMA school, as most of them are geared towards winning sparring matches and only 1v1 combat. The reason many people who have devoted lots of time to a Karate or TKD program of study feel like they are learning quite a lot when they go to MMA is that most of those previous programs were what is affectionatly known as McDojos.

I always recommend that people try a traditional school as their first school so taht they learn more of an appreciation for their art, and treat it as an art, instead of seeing it as merely a way to kick someone's ass.

Having trained in Okinawan Karate and Budo, some TKD, and 8 years of Aikido (with a three seminars on Krav Maga thrown in) I can definitly say that Aikido is the perfect art to study as a modern self defense mechanism. One of the best parts about Aikido, as opposed to many MMA schools, is that you are not always rushing yourself to the ground - an action that can easily have fatal consequenses if you are fighting more than 1 opponent. Also if done correctly, you can submit your opponent/s with a minimal amount of damage to their person, reducing the chance that you will get in trouble with the law (contrary to popular belief, if someone takes a swing at you and you break their arm and give them a concussion, you arent given a get-out-of-jail-free-card no matter how much you might deserve one).

Tae Kwon Do is Korean...and if you avoid the pitiful Joe Corley style American gyms (calling them dojos is a stretch), then you would be surprised how effective it is in a "real world scrap".

Good luck finding real martial arts training in the states. Avoid any "master" with less than thirty years experience.


To become a master takes ten years to master the motions, ten years to master your mind, and ten years to forget everything you thought you mastered and return to the basics. That's the only way to be qualified to teach another person the basics, to return to white belt.

I can counter pretty much all of this...but let's just say, I disagree.

*edit*, sorry, I thought Tae Kwon Do was something other than Korean. My bad.

No problem. :)





You have all just witnessed Aikido in action.

My best advise, from 7 years total of various practice, is to avoid ANY form of traditional martial arts. Anything bound to silly traditions will waste time. If you lived in michigan I could refer you to some very good people, but I know nothing of Georgia.

I found a very good self defense school with teachers with violent pasts who really know their stuff. Thing is, the way a street fight goes down and the way martial arts sparring goes down are fundamentaly different, and thats why I now avoid common martial arts.

+1

I'm working right now in a small group with a street fighter - the psychology that he presents is invaluable in talking down situations, looking for outs, using what's available to you. Makes you much more aware of your surroundings. We're looking to bring in some adrenaline based techniques with his brother who has a school with different sets (like a bedroom, someone bursts in and how do you fight your way out).

Somehow I keep getting to be the one the girls have to try to take down...not that I complain much ;)

Tao of Jeet Kune Do by Bruce Lee.

I would suggest a JKD school, but authentic ones are really rare.

The basic principles of JKD and Aikido are the same, however the approaches are very different.

JKD evolved from Wing Chung, and is very explosive with a lot of kicks. Aikido evolved from Bushido/Akijitsu, and is more of a military Samurai-style of martial art with little kicking and a lot of fencing technique.

I would just like to point out that Dan Inosanto said a few times of Bruce Lee that he would rarely use kicks unless he was "messing with the guy". Small point, but it does illustrate that there was a difference between the kung fu Bruce Lee taught and the kung fu he used in movies. I always wanted to check out some sort of kung fu, just could never find a good school where I was.

No problem. :)





You have all just witnessed Aikido in action.

hah, nice :beer:

I would like to learn more about self defense, but my primary goals would be increased flexibility, strength and speed.


Good points, Air.


However, it doesn't seem the OP is looking for street defense (which I think is an entirely different thing from martial arts).

Proper martial training will keep you away from situations where you would need to bring out your streetfighter skills. It will also help you in other, non-physical conflicts.

+1

I'm working right now in a small group with a street fighter - the psychology that he presents is invaluable in talking down situations, looking for outs, using what's available to you. Makes you much more aware of your surroundings. We're looking to bring in some adrenaline based techniques with his brother who has a school with different sets (like a bedroom, someone bursts in and how do you fight your way out).

Somehow I keep getting to be the one the girls have to try to take down...not that I complain much ;)


One of the things I think a lot of "street fighter" types have a problem with is developing sufficient mental distance from situations. And using way more than neccessary force.

My philosophy is...when push comes to shove, knock em on their a$$ and run like hell!

Good points, Air.


However, it doesn't seem the OP is looking for street defense (which I think is an entirely different thing from martial arts).

Proper martial training will keep you away from situations where you would need to bring out your streetfighter skills. It will also help you in other, non-physical conflicts.

+100,000

A good martial art will give you the ability to detect situations and defuse them, or just get out of there before you have to resort to brawling. However, there are times that one has to defend oneself, and some martial arts allow for a "volume control", from just dodging a dumb drunk trying to flail at you, on upwards. Other martial arts just only give punching and kicking as an option, and to bystanders, it may look like the guy doing the punches/kicks is the aggressor, which sucks in criminal/civil court.

Good points, Air.


However, it doesn't seem the OP is looking for street defense (which I think is an entirely different thing from martial arts).


I would like to learn more about self defense,

Well, he said self defense, street defense would be close enough. Most of the people that will come at you in a crowded bar or on the street aren't going to be your school trained black belt in _____ .

The teacher I'm working with has taken a lot in almost every kind of martial arts there is, can switch styles and then show the weakness of each in the case of a bar brawl or one on the street. And in the case of women especially being attacked in their bedroom or going to their car it can take a lot longer to master the skills of a specific MA to the point of being able to defend oneself vs some good basic street fighting/MMA training. We focus on speed, but not flexibility as much.

For flexibility take yoga or just stretch every day when you get up, before you go to bed, during the day when you have a minute here or there.


One of the things I think a lot of "street fighter" types have a problem with is developing sufficient mental distance from situations. And using way more than neccessary force.

Depends on the teacher - we're still taught that force is the last resort but not to be afraid if we need to use it. Also to keep the distance away and again how to defuse and talk down a situation. Most street fights are over in under 15-30 seconds on the street, so a well placed heel palm to the nose, broken collarbone, etc... can end the fight.

+100,000

Other martial arts just only give punching and kicking as an option, and to bystanders, it may look like the guy doing the punches/kicks is the aggressor, which sucks in criminal/civil court.

Not sure of the laws in every state, but in New York it is the same as an assault w/ a deadly weapon.

Most street fights are over in under 15-30 seconds on the street, so a well placed heel palm to the nose, broken collarbone, etc... can end the fight.


The thing that bothers me with the streetfighting methods is the lack of discipline and dedication from the students. Buying a gun without going to the range/getting your eyes checked/cleaning your weapon at least once every couple of months does as much harm as good, potentially.

My first ever sensei told me at ten years old that a wapon in unprepared hands can and will be used against you.

The worst outcome is getting cocky and allowing yourself to do great harm.


"With great power comes great responsibility."

-Benjamin Parker

Absolutely - great point!

Absolutely - great point!


I would love to sit in with your class one day.

Personally, I like FMA: Arnis, Kali, Eskrima (Filipino Martial Arts) there are a lot of variations around. A lot of the movies have been pushing FMA empty hand use lately (The Hunted - using Sayoc Kali; The Bourne Identity/Supremecy - I want to say it was Inosanto-Lacoste blend; 300 - beyond the phalanx, the majority of the spear work was FMA based by one of Guro Dan Inosanto's senior students.

FMA starts out with weapons first and usually included double weaponry for increased coordination of the weaker side. While a majority of weapons are impact based (stick) it really has the foundation in the blade (edged weapons). Transitions from short to long weapons should be similar (NOT identical, similar). Empty hand techniques are taught for when you DON'T have a weapon available.

Having said that, anything can be used as a weapon...pen, stick, etc.

I study/teach Estalilla Kabaroan Eskrima (www.kabaraon.com and www.estalillakabaroan.com). Here are some other styles:
Modern Arnis
Cabales Serrada
Bahala Na Eskrima
JKD-Kali (Dan Inosanto and Bruce Lee were training partner, Dan taught Bruce FMA.)
Doce-Pares
Balintawak
DBMA (Dog Brothers Martial Arts) is FMA/MMA based; lots of stick work and grappling
Sikaran is an kicking art.
Panandata
Atienza Kali

There are so many others....check out youtube for some pretty good vid clips.

Hey has anyone found a Krav Maga school in the states that is legit?


Personally, I like FMA: Arnis, Kali, Eskrima (Filipino Martial Arts) there are a lot of variations around. A lot of the movies have been pushing FMA empty hand use lately (The Hunted - using Sayoc Kali; The Bourne Identity/Supremecy - I want to say it was Inosanto-Lacoste blend; 300 - beyond the phalanx, the majority of the spear work was FMA based by one of Guro Dan Inosanto's senior students.

FMA starts out with weapons first and usually included double weaponry for increased coordination of the weaker side. While a majority of weapons are impact based (stick) it really has the foundation in the blade (edged weapons). Transitions from short to long weapons should be similar (NOT identical, similar). Empty hand techniques are taught for when you DON'T have a weapon available.

Having said that, anything can be used as a weapon...pen, stick, etc.

I study/teach Estalilla Kabaroan Eskrima (www.kabaraon.com (http://www.kabaraon.com) and www.estalillakabaroan.com) (http://www.estalillakabaroan.com%29). Here are some other styles:
Modern Arnis
Cabales Serrada
Bahala Na Eskrima
JKD-Kali (Dan Inosanto and Bruce Lee were training partner, Dan taught Bruce FMA.)
Doce-Pares
Balintawak
DBMA (Dog Brothers Martial Arts) is FMA/MMA based; lots of stick work and grappling
Sikaran is an kicking art.
Panandata
Atienza Kali

There are so many others....check out youtube for some pretty good vid clips.

Oh man you have no idea how much I have always wanted to try my hand at escrima. I remember watching a VHS a long time ago about kali showcasing the Doce-Pares (I believe it was part of a series entitled Way of the Warrior). I thought it was totally awesome. The curse of living in rural NE is that there is little to choose from in the way of martial arts.\

edit- spelling

Hey has anyone found a Krav Maga school in the states that is legit?


I believe there is one in New York founded by an ex-Isreali officer.

Want to see something crazy? Check out the Russian Systema. I don't see how they survive basic training!

Did you train with Gracie in Miami? That's where I'm from, and met him during Brasil Carnival at the International many years ago.

As I recall, he didn't seem to blink.


Scary MFer, ain't he? I've never trained directly at his facility, only at seminars, and only a few times. It's been good for my Aiki to bring some good ground techniques into the mix. I've trained with a couple of the Machados since moving to DFW as well. Very well spoken folks.

Scary MFer, ain't he?

None more scary. It was his calm demeanor that got to me. And that stare.

By the way, I also practice the Scottish art of Fuk Yu. :) It's mostly a lot of shouting and kicking them in the crotch when they're distracted.

By the way, I also practice the Scottish art of Fuk Yu. :) It's mostly a lot of shouting and kicking them in the crotch when they're distracted.


:lol:


Sounds a lot like "Drunken Irish" style. :) 40 oz of Mickey's Malt and brass knuckles.

Personally, I like FMA: Arnis, Kali, Eskrima (Filipino Martial Arts) there are a lot of variations around. A lot of the movies have been pushing FMA empty hand use lately (The Hunted - using Sayoc Kali; The Bourne Identity/Supremecy - I want to say it was Inosanto-Lacoste blend; 300 - beyond the phalanx, the majority of the spear work was FMA based by one of Guro Dan Inosanto's senior students.

FMA starts out with weapons first and usually included double weaponry for increased coordination of the weaker side. While a majority of weapons are impact based (stick) it really has the foundation in the blade (edged weapons). Transitions from short to long weapons should be similar (NOT identical, similar). Empty hand techniques are taught for when you DON'T have a weapon available.

Having said that, anything can be used as a weapon...pen, stick, etc.

I study/teach Estalilla Kabaroan Eskrima (www.kabaraon.com and www.estalillakabaroan.com). Here are some other styles:
Modern Arnis
Cabales Serrada
Bahala Na Eskrima
JKD-Kali (Dan Inosanto and Bruce Lee were training partner, Dan taught Bruce FMA.)
Doce-Pares
Balintawak
DBMA (Dog Brothers Martial Arts) is FMA/MMA based; lots of stick work and grappling
Sikaran is an kicking art.
Panandata
Atienza Kali

There are so many others....check out youtube for some pretty good vid clips.
You'd think w/ all these styles, we could've kept the Spaniards from colonizing the place. Oh wellz...

By the way, I also practice the Scottish art of Fuk Yu. :) It's mostly a lot of shouting and kicking them in the crotch when they're distracted.
Don't forget the headbutts.

You'd think w/ all these styles, we could've kept the Spaniards from colonizing the place. Oh wellz...


Your revenge was taking over Nike. Stupid conquistidors and their lack of sneaker style.

He would not consider it a style. That's the antithesis of Jeet Kune Do principles.

I would reccomend reading his book.

If you want it all...seriously consider Aikido.
+1,000,000

My 17 yr old brother takes Aikido and he absolutely loves it. I've seen him take his tests and I can tell that he has changed. He's definitely more disciplined than before, stronger, mature. It's a great self defense. From what I have learned from my brother, in Aikido you learn your opponents power against them. Of all martial arts, Aikido is the one that I'm most willing to learn.