Hello! I'm obviously a brand new member here. I joined because of a thread on a horseback riding forum regarding bicyclists, and how oblivious we are to each others' safety needs. Many people tend to get angry and just "hate" bicyclists, but I think we have a lot in common- basically, we all just want to enjoy the outdoors, get a little exercise, and get home in one piece.
So why is this an issue?
Basically, many horses are terrified of bicycles. Even horses that are well trained, and have experienced bicycles in other situations, may have a tizzy when one comes up behind them, especially at speed. Despite the fact that they've been domesticated for thousands upon thousands of years, they still have a pretty sensitive instinct to danger, and bicycles are quiet, and fast, and move smoothly in an odd way, which tends to trigger their fear of predators. They don't look at a bicyclist and think "oh, it's a person on a machine." and move on. They tend to react in a more "OMIGOD what is that really fast thing that snuck up behind me and is it going to get me?" sort of way.
If you pass too close to a horse, and it spooks, most of the time, it will jump away from you. This tends to mostly be dangerous for the rider, and only becomes a big issue for you if the rider falls, and the horse gets loose in traffic or on the road (horse + car = somebody's dead). But sometimes, a horse will whirl around to FACE whatever it perceives as dangerous, which can put a 1000+ pound animal right on top of you in a nanosecond. Horses can see you coming up behind before you've actually started to pass, so this can mean the horse whirls around right as you get to the hindquarters. Believe me, NONE of us want that!
The best way to avoid these kinds of things?
1- when coming up behind a horse, even if it is not on the road, but beside the road (even if they're not right in your way, bicycles can still surprise the horse, which puts the rider in danger), make your presence known well before you pass. Don't ring bells or make a big clamor (this will make any spooking or jumping MUCH worse), but do consider shouting out "behind you!" or "bicycle, passing!" or something when you're still far enough away to not be hurt should the horse suddenly jump. In addition to warning the animal of something behind them, this alerts the rider so (s)he can be prepared to deal with any horsey shenanigans or warn you if there are likely to be issues.
2- slow down. Slower speeds allow the animal to get a better look at you. If you've announced your presence with a little shout or talked to the rider, the animal knows you're some kind of person, which should hopefully make them less alarmed about this bizarre thing that seems to run without legs. I know that if you're out training, slowing down isn't what you want to do, but it is the safest thing for everybody (this goes for if you are driving a car, as well- pass wide, and slowly. do not honk the horn, LOL)
3- If the horse starts jumping around, ask the rider how you should proceed. They may simply need a second to get out of the way and stopped so you can pass safely.
4- if you are on trails or mountain biking, not road biking, and you need to pass the horse, after announcing your presence, let the rider stop the animal, and if the trail is narrow, walk the bike past the horse on the low side of the trail. If there's a slope, and you go by on the high side, it again triggers that predator/prey thing in the horse (they're always looking at things above them as threats- so be mindful)
5- this isn't so much an "in the situation" safety issue, but if there is a stable nearby, and you have encountered horses on roads/trails near there and have some free time, consider stopping by and offering your services to help "despook" horses to bicycles. This can be fun, and it will make you friends (some of us might even be willing to pay for this, or at least buy you lunch). All it really involves is letting the beasties get a good look at you, first at a standstill, and then with them following you at a slow speed, until they start to get the idea that you're not a threat, at which point you can practice riding behind the horse, and around the horse, etc.
6- lastly, a word about horse trailers- as you probably know, these are heavy rigs. They cannot accelerate and brake quickly in a safe way- so if you're riding as a group and a horse trailer needs to pass (especially on a windy/hilly road without a lot of shoulder), it would be very much appreciated if the bicycles slowed/stopped, and got WAY over to the side. I realize that road bicyclists often ride in packs to protect themselves against motorists who try to pass too close (we riders don't particularly like these folks either), but a narrow curvy road, plus group of bicyclists, plus horse trailer (or any large truck, really) is a major recipe for disaster. The live, shifting weight in a horse trailer (plus the high center of gravity) makes these rigs more dangerous than a truck pulling, say, a boat. While I think cars should be expected to slow down and pass safely when they can, if a horse trailer comes up behind you without much warning, they may not be ABLE to slow safely and effectively.
I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, but I have noticed a lot of animosity for bicyclists among horseback riders and those trying to ship horses from point A to point B. I don't think this is fair, and I think most of the "those ^&%#^ bicyclists! (http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=97465) They're so rude and inconsiderate!" conversations I've heard have simply been the result of a lack of education (If a cyclist doesn't KNOW that these things are issues, you can't blame them. Same goes for people in cars or on horseback). I posted the link so you can get an idea of some of the misunderstandings/lack of communication going on...
Again, in the end, we all just want to get home in one piece after enjoying our sport/hobby of choice.
On the flip side, is there anything that we riders can do around bicycles that will make YOUR experience more safe and more pleasant? I don't want this to be a one sided "lecture" from a noob, so if there's something WE can do so that we can share roads and trails safely, please let me know!
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
If there's a group that is more self righteous, more sanctimonious than cyclists, it has to be horse owners...
I ride in an area with quite a few horses and I encounter them frequently, both on the road and on the trail and I take issue with a few things you suggest:
1&2) If you're riding your horse on the road or next to the road and it spooks when a cyclist rides by, maybe you should reconsider where you ride. If I'm on the road, I'm probably doing 20-25mph and I'm not going to slow down for a horse on the side of the road because the rider might not be able to control it. Maybe it's just the horses and riders in my area but I have yet to run into any problems with horses on the road.
4) Trails are a completely different situation. I assume all horses and riders are newbies and they will probably be spooked by a passing cyclist. In most situations, I'll establish contact with the rider to figure out how to proceed.
6) If you can't drive your horse trailer safely (e.g. passing on a curvy road, coming up on cyclists too fast) maybe you should keep your horse trailer in the driveway. You expect bicyclists to pull over for you and your trailer but I very rarely see a horse trailer pull over for the line of cars they're holding up.
caffeinated
I'm sorry you feel that way.
Some riders must ride on or near roads in order to get to the wooded trails, etc.
I suggested these things because I don't want anyone to get hurt- you, me, or the animal underneath me with a brain the size of a peanut.
Horse riders encounter many of the same issues with traffic/cars that bike riders do, and share many of the same gripes.
Pulling horse trailers, like driving large trucks, is inherently dangerous, and having to brake quickly, while often do-able, is dangerous.
I'm sorry that I tried to make some suggestions so that we could share roads and trails with some more mutual respect. Even the most well trained and seasoned animal may occasionally do something irrational, and I don't want to see someone get hurt because they didn't give enough passing space.
maddyfish
My experience with horses, both on the bike and off the bike is bad. To me they are 1000 pound fat slow bicycles with a totally irrational peanut sized mind of their own. Usually the person riding it, is at best marginally in control. My plan when I come upon one is to pass it absolutely as fast as possible, exposing me to the danger for as short a time as possible, giving it the most distance possible.
If the rider can't control it, then he shouldn't be riding it. Can you imagine if one of our bikes suddenly developed a mind of it's own, and decided to take off into traffic?
maddyfish
I'm perfectly fine sharing the road, but I'm going to take the action that exposes me to the least danger possible, if a person can't control his horse too bad.
doctore
caffeinated,
This thread perfectly illustrates my first point...
In response:
How far off the road do you have to be before I don't have to annouce my presence and slow down; 3ft, 10 ft, 50 ft, 100 ft, etc?
Driving a horse trailer (or a semi) IS NOT inherently dangerous - driving it TOO FAST is!
Denny Koll
Here's another question.
Horse riders on the MUP near me have their own trail that runs along the side of the paved bike/pedestrain trail. They frequently ride on the bike path, I guess if it's too muddy or whatever on their own trail.
Why is it that dog owners generally clean up after their animals but horse owners think it's OK to leave behind huge steaming piles of horse manure for someone else to clean up? Is this just a horse thing? Do any horse owners clean up their messes? Or is it OK to let someone's kid step in it or ride over it on their bike?
And if they want to share the path I am assuming that thay have control of their animal...just like dog owners do. If not..please find some private property to ride on. If you are out in public it's your responsibility to get along with others.
crtreedude
It isn't the horses fault - it is the fault of the owner. How do I know? Look where I live. We have horses everywhere, we use them all the time, I personally own 6 horses. You know how they react to bikes, motorcycles, cars, etc? Boredom. It is fiction that well trained horses are afraid of bikes. Sorry if that offends but it is true. We have horses and bikes and motorcycles and cars and trucks and tractors all mixing in town. No issues at all.
The core issue is horses stuck inside a stable all week until some spoiled rich kid can maybe ride them on Saturday, if they don't have something else to do. These animals are almost mad with boredom and know very little other than the inside of a stable. Then you put on top of them a person who has no experience. Cruel to the animal - dangerous for the kid and anyone around it.
As far as a animal getting into their head to bolt into traffic - if you animal is that badly trained - keep it inside a fence - for your sake as well as the animals. In my opinion, no horse should be allowed around others on public trails until it and its owner have passed a test showing that the owner can control the horse around bikes and hikers. After all, the dangerous beast is the horse, not the hiker or cyclist.
And remember, I own horses - lots of them.
Keith99
It isn't the horses fault - it is the fault of the owner. How do I know? Look where I live. We have horses everywhere, we use them all the time, I personally own 6 horses. You know how they react to bikes, motorcycles, cars, etc? Boredom. It is fiction that well trained horses are afraid of bikes. Sorry if that offends but it is true. We have horses and bikes and motorcycles and cars and trucks and tractors all mixing in town. No issues at all.
The core issue is horses stuck inside a stable all week until some spoiled rich kid can maybe ride them on Saturday, if they don't have something else to do. These animals are almost mad with boredom and know very little other than the inside of a stable. Then you put on top of them a person who has no experience. Cruel to the animal - dangerous for the kid and anyone around it.
As far as a animal getting into their head to bolt into traffic - if you animal is that badly trained - keep it inside a fence - for your sake as well as the animals. In my opinion, no horse should be allowed around others on public trails until it and its owner have passed a test showing that the owner can control the horse around bikes and hikers. After all, the dangerous beast is the horse, not the hiker or cyclist.
And remember, I own horses - lots of them.
Agree 100%. I don't own horses, but they do seem to be in the family. My sister has been gaga over horses for over 40 years. Of course her kids ride and show also. My brothers daughter is a high level 3 day event rider.
This gives the one exception to what crtreedude said. Race and show horses often are a bit skitish, but their owners would never ride them on the street.
crtreedude
Race and show horses often are a bit skitish, but their owners would never ride them on the street.
Yeah, inbred animals get that way. Some of the meanest tempered dogs in the world are purebreds if my experiences are any indication.
bongo_x
as a bike rider and horse owner it seems to me that the problem is a lack of understanding on both sides.
ignorance is the word that comes to mind.
horses are flight animals. they do not defend themselves, they run in any frightening situation. to a horse it's "run first, ask questions later". they can be trained to get used to things, but they don't come that way. part of the training involves exposing them to things. a parent can't fully teach their child to behave in public without taking them out in public.
I think the problem with many horse owners is that they are so used to knowing that that they assume you know that. it's the most basic thing you can know about horses, kind of like bikes need to be pedaled, duh! therefore they think you're just being an 4$$h013, not that you're ignorant.
bike riders, and others who don't know horses, seem to think that they are just large dogs that come trained from the factory. they don't understand what they've done wrong and why the horse owner is angry. he/she is angry because because you've done something stupid, that to them is obvious, and have maybe caused a dangerous situation for everyone. to them it's like when you're passing a weaving family of cruiser bikes and you say "on your left" and inevitably one of them will turn left into you.
whether you think the horses should be there or not hardly seems like a reason to put someone's life in jeopardy. slowing down, or god forbid even stopping, for a second just to keep things safe just doesn't seem like that big of a sacrifice to me. it even seems like it might just be polite.
it's funny to me how a lot of the hateful arguments that bike riders have about horses sound just like the comments from drivers and hikers about bike riders. there's way to many "serves them right" kind of comments.
being on a horse when someone flies by on a bike and spooks it is a lot like being on a bike when some jack4$$ in a car buzzes you.
all you really have to remember about horses is "don't act like a predator". announce your self early on, try to stay where they can see you, talk, be casual. predators sneak up slowly, and attack fast. non-predators just go about their business, without being particularly loud or quiet, fast or slow etc.
in years past I've taken a horse out into a situation where I realized I was in over my head and it was potentially dangerous. I still had to get back home in one piece. I'm sure some people here have gone a bike ride that was over their skill level, maybe even dangerous. you still have to get back home, and it's better if the people around you aren't trying to make it worse.
bb
bongo_x
...Horse riders on the MUP near me have their own trail that runs along the side of the paved bike/pedestrain trail. They frequently ride on the bike path, I guess if it's too muddy or whatever on their own trail.
Why is it that dog owners generally clean up after their animals but horse owners think it's OK to leave behind huge steaming piles of horse manure for someone else to clean up? Is this just a horse thing?...
those people are called jerks.
bb
caffeinated
Interesting thoughts.
In any case, those of us who want to train our horses to be road-safe have to start somewhere. We can't get a road safe horse without first taking an inexperienced one out on roads.
I'm not asking for the world to change for my safety, or saying all bikes will make horses insane, and I can't control my animal. All I was trying to say was that it would be nice, and would increase safety for both bicyclists and horse riders if some basic courtesies were followed. Making a horseback rider aware of your presence in advance, and slowing down and giving a little extra space, doesn't seem like a huge sacrifice.
Passing as fast as you can may seem to minimize your danger, but it doesn't. It actually makes it worse, because again, a horse can see almost directly behind (but not quite). So it sees you when you suddenly appear in the area of the horse's hindquarters, which, no matter how fast you're going, puts you directly in the danger zone should the horse react in an unpredictable manner. A spook happens fast- so even capable riders who can control their animals may not be able to stop it from leaping 10-15 feet sideways in a millisecond.
I do agree that horseback riders also need to be more courteous, and also need to prepare their animals as best they can for anything they might encounter.
I'm surprised to find that we're not "allies"- we have many of the same issues dealing with inconsiderate drivers, and people with a seeming lack of common sense. We have common interests when it comes not only to road safety but preservation of green spaces and trails. From my side, I find it sad that many riders actively dislike bicyclists, and vice versa.
Just thought maybe we could do each other a favor, didn't realize I was starting some kind of flamefest.
joejack951
A couple of thoughts/comments:
1. For those who ride horses in the street, consider a mirror to allow yourself to see traffic coming from behind so that you can issue any hand signals (such as slow down, or don't pass) long before the passee makes any attempts. If you are seriously concerned about your horse being spooked, address the cyclist coming up behind you before they have any chance of making a mistake. Take responsibility for the fact that you are operating a potentially dangerous animal.
2. I personally will pass any slower traffic the same way I expect to be passed when I am slower traffic, at a reasonable speed, with as much clearance as possible, and announcing my presence when necessary. I've only encountered a few horses on the road but the riders seemed grateful that I was patient when passing.
3. As to the horse trailer comments, cry me a river. Slow down. If you can't see around a turn or over a hill, the horses aren't going to die if you take the turn/hill at a few mph less in order to keep control of your rig. Slow moving traffic should be expected on ANY road where it is not specifically prohibited (usually any road but freeways). If you are not able to stop in time, it's your fault and no one else's. With that said, if you've been following me for a while with no safe oppurtunities to pass, I have no problems pulling over at a safe spot to let you pass. If you honk annoyingly (a simple toot to let me know you are there is plenty), expect me to get really picky about what I consider safe :)
bongo_x
Interesting thoughts....Just thought maybe we could do each other a favor, didn't realize I was starting some kind of flamefest.
I don't think it's all negative, I think it just needs to be discussed. like I said, I think it's mostly just a lack of knowledge all around.
and there will always be jerks.
bb
caffeinated
joejack, thanks for the reminder about hand signals.
Just realized that I know many riders who use the right-turn signal when they mean "slow down/stop" and that's a problem (we use that one out on trail a lot just because it's more visible to the others behind us, it's a way we make sure someone 2 or 3 horses behind us can actually SEE the signal.)
Sorry I brought up horse trailering, that's really a whole other set of problems. I only meant they can't get out and pass the same way a car can, though apparently I suffer diarrhea of the mouth and probably shouldn't have mentioned it as an issue.
crtreedude
A tried a true method of training your horse is to take it with an more mature horse - one that it respects as a leader. If that horse doesn't bolt - neither will yours normally. This is using the instinct of the animal to help the situation instead of just assuming that you are at the mercy of the instinct.
There is a leader anytime the horse is with you. Unfortunately, often it is the horse if you don't take control. We get lots of visitors who say they have horses and understand them. So far, out of more than a 100, only one has known how to stop a runaway horse safely.
You might be able to jump with a horse and even race a horse, it doesn't say you understand horses. A good horse that is trained doesn't immediately react like a prey animal - just like a dog that is trained doesn't immediately react like a predator. But we sure see enough of both, don't we? It just means they are not trained.
Denny Koll
joejack, thanks for the reminder about hand signals.
Just realized that I know many riders who use the right-turn signal when they mean "slow down/stop" and that's a problem (we use that one out on trail a lot just because it's more visible to the others behind us, it's a way we make sure someone 2 or 3 horses behind us can actually SEE the signal.)
Sorry I brought up horse trailering, that's really a whole other set of problems. I only meant they can't get out and pass the same way a car can, though apparently I suffer diarrhea of the mouth and probably shouldn't have mentioned it as an issue.
No...it's a great topic to discuss. Hang in there. Do you clean up after your horse BTW?
sauerwald
All users of the roads need to follow the same set of rules - pass safely, giving appropriate amounts of space , and if you are unable to control your vehicle, be that a motor vehicle, a bicycle or a horse, then you do not belong on the road.
I asked a simple question a few weeks back on this forum regarding the rules of the road for horses and got a ton of obnoxious replies from horse people. I will ask it again - what side of the road should a horse be on? I came across a situation a few weeks back with a horse on either side of the road, both travelling in the same direction. I rode my bike down the middle of the road, and got yelled at by both riders that I was going too fast for their horses, despite my travelling at approx half the speed limit.
I am happy to share the road with anybody who is following the same rules as the rest of us.
maddyfish
I would assume that a horse should ride with traffic, on the right side.
scottmorrison99
I have shared trails with horses, and I just slow and let them know I am going to pass on a bicycle. It keeps the horse and rider from being startled. It only takes a second, and I shouldn't be going too fast to do that on a multiuse path anyway if I cannot see my fellow trailusers, bike, horse or pedestrian, and pass safely. If on the road I come up on a horse, I call out to let them know I am coming, without slowing down. It is a road, with motor vehicles going by after all. If a horse is too skittish to be passed on the road, maybe it (or the rider)needs more training. As for horse trailers, just wait for a safe place to pass, like everyone else...Share the Road. If you can't safely pass, don't.
seeker333
To the OP, thanks for sharing your views. It takes some courage to post a thread in a forum where you know the majority of readers are not going to share your opinion.
My experience with horses is limited to hiking/backpacking trails in National Forests/Parks. I have not seen them on trails often.
I immediately know whenever I am hiking on a trail with horse privileges, because the trail is usually beat to pieces. Horses riders are bad about widening trails around standing water. I believe horses accelerate trail erosion an order of magnitude above that of hikers. I've never read a single notice of trail maintenance parties by horse riders - which they oughta be doing constantly to make up for the damage they cause. I think horses should pay a trail user fee, with funds going to dedicated trail maintenance employees. The situation is analogous to the damage an average passenger car does to roads, versus that caused by tractor-trailer rigs.
Obviously wading thru the horse apples does nothing to endear horses to hikers. Really, if you wanna upset someone, just go crap at their front door and observe reaction.
When I pass horses, I stand way to the side, off the trail, waiting for them to pass. I figure the horse could at any moment go berserk and trample me, and the rider has little to no riding experience. The horse riders rarely speak to me in passing, so they don't come off as friendly or appreciative of my minor safety gesture. The horse owners I've known spent very little time with their animals, depending on a husband or father for daily maintainance, then took them out for a ride once a month, 6 months out of year. I have always viewed it as a tremendous waste of money. Like a boat that eats, craps, and has to be waxed every day. Why not stick to cats and dogs? I don't get it.
Lastly, regarding the horse trailers, and trailers in general - those things are extremely hazardous to a bicyclist. If you're driving one and you have to wait a bit for an opportunity to pass a bicycle SAFELY, then tough noogies. You chose that inconvenience when you bought the horse. You should pass a bicycle just like a car - all the way over in the other lane, when there's plenty of time to execute the passing manuever. Bicycles often ride further left of the fog line than necessary specifically for two reasons:
1. to be more visible to motorists, so that often-distracted drivers don't mistake the bicycle for a mailbox, and
2. to force motorists to drive in a safe, lawful manner, that is to use the other lane for passing, and not try to squeeze thru the single lane while passing. It's hard to judge distance to the side. People's lives should not be so highly dependent upon your visual acuity, motor vehicle operating skill and ability to make decisons while simultaneously driving a car, quieting the kids, talking on the cellphone and listenting to dvd soundtracks.
The inconvenience and danger put upon horse riders by bicyclists is simply trivial compared to the crap bicyclists take from motorists every single ride. Don't believe me? I dare you to hop on a bike and head down the road...oh, wait, you're not gonna do that cause you're afraid you'll get killed...talk about beating a dead horse (oooh wait, a freudian slip).
JLauren
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=185677
Amchara
Hey, another Equestrian here thinking she can answer some questions.
To which side of the road-it is really debatable, around here at least. Some or our roads have no shoulders on a side, so it changes to which on has the wider shoulder, this is about the only constant. Opposed to right and left shoulders, it's personal preference. Some equestrians like the right so the horse can see oncoming traffic, some like the left so traffic isn't coming up directly behind them. Something ALL equestrians should do though, no ifs and or buts, is ride on the same should when in groups.
Manure? In most areas of the US (actually, all I think) horses are legally considered livestock. Livestock owners don't have to clean up after their livestock, but pet owners have to clean up after their pets. I generally try to move my horse sideways off the trail in to the grass to keep the road and shoulder clean.
People can be startled by things suddenly as well, such as a person jumping around a corner and yelling "OOOGABOOGABOO!" :eek: . Well trained horses can even react to things in similar situations. The distance to announce yourself to a horse and rider can change with your speed, generally enough time to say a sentence to the horse/rider and still have a berth between you and it for problems if there are any.
Happy riding, what ever sort of saddle you have!
Denny Koll
Manure? In most areas of the US (actually, all I think) horses are legally considered livestock. Livestock owners don't have to clean up after their livestock, but pet owners have to clean up after their pets. I generally try to move my horse sideways off the trail in to the grass to keep the road and shoulder clean.
So who does clean up after a horse after it takes a giant crap on the trail? Or isn't that a concern for horse owners? Can't you carry a bag with you and take the doo doo home with you?
crtreedude
I think the key to politeness is to consider the others using a resource. I notice the horseback riders think nothing of their beast dropping manure in a public place and yet wish everyone to tip-toe around their horse. Seems to me to be a double standard. If you don't think manure is a safety issue, hit a patch on turn sometime (yes - I have done so - very few things are slicker if you know what I mean)
Like I said before, I own horses but most horse owners act like they own the trails where in fact, they are supposed to share.
crtreedude
One other thing about not coming up suddenly on a horse. There are riders on trails like this that are not adults - kids who don't know better. It seems to me to be incredibly irresponsible (and a great way to get sued) to have an animal that can maim or kill a child in a public area. If horses are really so unstable, they don't belong in public places. (I think they are very trainable)
Just to give you an idea of what a horse should be able to do. Yesterday I road one of our horses down to a construction site - there was a cement mixer going and a backhoe. I moved near the backhoe with the horse and talked to the operator - backhoe still running. Then I crossed over and talked to the construction boss about the bridge we are building - with the cement mixer (small one) was running.
The horse that I was riding had never seen a backhoe or a cement mixer before - the backhoe had to look like some huge horse eating monster to it - and yes the horse was a bit nervous. But I reasured the horse and it was okay.
By point is this - a well trained horse, contrary to what people are led to believe, is not as spooky as you would think. It has been exposed to many strange stimuli in its life - another one isn't anything to get worked up about.
bongo_x
I think we all understand that some horses are very well trained, some people are experienced riders, and agree that it would be great if others were too.
my point is that sometimes things are not ideal. sometimes people do things they shouldn't or find themselves in over their heads even if they have good intentions. I don't think that is a reason to risk someone's life anymore than I think it's ok for a car to buzz a bike rider on the road because he's on the wrong side of the street or isn't wearing a helmet.
yeah, I know, it's their fault. but that doesn't make it ok to endanger someone.
I agree that many horse riders expect the world to revolve around them and it's annoying. it's like people with kids who think everyone should put up with their bull5h17 because they decided to reproduce. some people are just selfish and dumb, doesn't mean we should try and kill them, as much as we'd like to.
bb
Denny Koll
I think we all understand that some horses are very well trained, some people are experienced riders, and agree that it would be great if others were too.
my point is that sometimes things are not ideal. sometimes people do things they shouldn't or find themselves in over their heads even if they have good intentions. I don't think that is a reason to risk someone's life anymore than I think it's ok for a car to buzz a bike rider on the road because he's on the wrong side of the street or isn't wearing a helmet.
yeah, I know, it's their fault. but that doesn't make it ok to endanger someone.
I agree that many horse riders expect the world to revolve around them and it's annoying. it's like people with kids who think everyone should put up with their bull5h17 because they decided to reproduce. some people are just selfish and dumb, doesn't mean we should try and kill them, as much as we'd like to.
bb
I'd just like to hear one horse owner say that they won't make someone else clean up their horse crap. Just one!
Keith99
By point is this - a well trained horse, contrary to what people are led to believe, is not as spooky as you would think. It has been exposed to many strange stimuli in its life - another one isn't anything to get worked up about.
If I remember my history right there were a couple of hundred years where horses and guns were used in battle. If they can be trained to deal with that then they can also deal with most every day situations.
However training is not foolproof. The only horse who ever liked me almost got me once. She got stung by a wasp or hornet and bolted. I was in the wrong place where she had no where to go besides through me. Which ended up proving a big guy can go between the rails of a fence rather quickly. (I don't count the time she kicked out and almost got me while giving birth, she was rather uncomfortable at the time and was not aiming for me).
crtreedude
If you want a fun dance sometime, help shoe a horse who has never had it done before. :eek:
Riding a mare when a stallion desides it is time for a little afternoon delight can get pretty interesting too...
We had one horse, wonderful in so many ways, but because of abuse from a previous owner, had one quirk - pick up ANYTHING, even a blade of grass - and she would take off and not stop until you put it down. It was a bit of a surprise when it first happened.
The issue to me is pretty simple - unless you have a very well trained horse with a very well trained rider, they don't belong in public. PERIOD. Far, far too dangerous for the horse, the rider and anyone around them.
East Hill
Perhaps I have just been spoiled where I live? I encounter horses almost daily on my MUP. I always slow down, and ask if the horses are all right with bicycles. The riders invariably reply that the horses are good, but ALWAYS thank me for asking. I've never encountered a horse on the street, though, and I am not certain that they are permitted to be ridden on streets where I am located.
East Hill
Denny Koll
Perhaps I have just been spoiled where I live? I encounter horses almost daily on my MUP. I always slow down, and ask if the horses are all right with bicycles. The riders invariably reply that the horses are good, but ALWAYS thank me for asking. I've never encountered a horse on the street, though, and I am not certain that they are permitted to be ridden on streets where I am located.
East Hill
Yeah..but have you ever met one that cleaned up after his horse?
jwc
Yeah..but have you ever met one that cleaned up after his horse?
Maybe diapers on a horse should be required, by law.:)
Pass that law and I bet horse riders will start carrying folding camp shovels to clean up that mess.
Denny Koll
Maybe diapers on a horse should be required, by law.:)
Pass that law and I bet horse riders will start carrying folding camp shovels to clean up that mess.
I like it! They would probably want changing tables installed along the trails.
tcs
Marching bands, fire truck sirens, small children darting about & horses?
A spook happens fast- so even capable riders who can control their animals may not be able to stop it from leaping 10-15 feet sideways in a millisecond.
I've been collecting comments like this for our local town parade organizers to get them to ban equestrian groups before someone gets hurt. Thanks for the quote.
TCS
donnamb
I've been collecting comments like this for our local town parade organizers to get them to ban equestrian groups before someone gets hurt. Thanks for the quote.
Well, they've banned everything else to keep children "safe", why not horses? :rolleyes:
maddyfish
I live in Kentucky. I see horses onthe road a couple times a week. I've seen them go nuts and take off kicking and biting. Minimize your exposure, if you come up quiet on their six o'clock position, then quickly move as far away as possible, while moving very fast, they don't appear to have time to react. I've never seen one go nuts after I pass it this way, but I've seen them freak out over strollers, slow moving bikes, dogs, scooters, tall people, kids, groundhogs, and motorcycles.
Dogbait
Maybe diapers on a horse should be required, by law.:)
Pass that law and I bet horse riders will start carrying folding camp shovels to clean up that mess.
Not as far fetched as one might think. A few years ago, some logging had to be done in an environmentally sensitive area east of Portland. Horses were used to skid the logs out and they were required to be equipped with diapers.
Charleston, South Carolina and Vienna, Austria require horse drawn carraiges to use diapers in the city center.
Horse Diapers (http://www.bunbag.com/)
Denny Koll
Not as far fetched as one might think. A few years ago, some logging had to be done in an environmentally sensitive area east of Portland. Horses were used to skid the logs out and they were required to be equipped with diapers.
Charleston, South Carolina and Vienna, Austria require horse drawn carraiges to use diapers in the city center.
Horse Diapers (http://www.bunbag.com/)
The Bun-Bag! Who would have thought.
bongo_x
I'd just like to hear one horse owner say that they won't make someone else clean up their horse crap. Just one!
I think it's pretty clear that people do not clean up after their horses. they don't make someone else do it either, no one does it, it just sits there. it breaks down rather quickly and is mostly grass and hay anyways. most people do not find horse poop to be nearly as offensive as dog, people, cat poop, etc. it's not always pleasant on a trail, but I've never had a problem with it. I don't see that sort of thing in city parks, or really busy multi use areas though, that might be different. if I'm riding out in the woods I am not offended by animal poop. I do see a lot of litter from people though, and I am offended by that.
when you're riding a horse you often don't know it's pooping.
this is my experience only, based on the places I ride, CA, AZ, GA.
bb
powerhouse
It's good you started this thread, Caffeinated.
As someone who grew up around horses and learned to ride them before I rode a bicycle, I'm inclined to agree with your advice.
In the present day, I usually have encountered people riding horses out on MUP's or in the countryside of Central Maine. When approaching horse and rider, I first slow down to their pace within talking distance to a safe distance behind them but is close enough talking distance so that I can let the rider know I'm there and that I plan to pass. Then, at a slightly faster rate of speed, I pass them at a rate of speed that is slightly faster than that of the horse. I even talk to the horse while doing this to make sure it doesn't get spooked. While this may seem strange, it actually works.
So I agree that we cyclists must take extra care when we find ourselves riding up behind or in front of horses. If we don't, we just might end up behaving like a horse's whoopsey-daisey.
kaiju-velo
I agree that many horse riders expect the world to revolve around them and it's annoying. it's like people with kids who think everyone should put up with their bull5h17 because they decided to reproduce. some people are just selfish and dumb, doesn't mean we should try and kill them, as much as we'd like to.
bb
I totally agree with this and the other post about how horse people are even more uppity
than bike people. I can also weigh in with a little personal experience--I worked around and
rode horses for years--on ranches and as a guide in the Sierra Nevada. I rode all kinds of
horses--I have to say I like bikes better (but I like some horses).
Changing a tire is easier than shoeing a horse--
I concur that horses are twitchy creatures--most at least--so the "don't act like a predator"
concept makes sense--let them know you are coming well in advance. Stay out of kicking
range. You would be surprised how fast an equine can lash out with a rear leg.
Don't take any attitude off of horse people. Or other cyclists for that matter.
Bikepacker67
but a narrow curvy road, plus group of bicyclists, plus horse trailer (or any large truck, really) is a major recipe for disaster.
Only if the driver of the horse trailer is being an impatient d1ck.
maxine
Manure? In most areas of the US (actually, all I think) horses are legally considered livestock. Livestock owners don't have to clean up after their livestock, but pet owners have to clean up after their pets.
And in most areas of the U.S., is it legal to herd livestock on a public multi-use path?
I don't have any issue with slowing down for horses on paths, and being very mindful as I pass them (I've never encountered a horse on a road), but this comment was just . . . let's say disingenuous. In this context, you are using the animal in a pet-like fashion, in a public place. You should clean up its poop, or have it wear a diaper (since a rider probably doesn't always even know when his/her horse has pooped.)
Pat
Yeah..but have you ever met one that cleaned up after his horse?
I have ridden and taken care of horses. But that was a long time ago.
I have been wondering. Just how is the rider supposed to clean up after the horse? Are they supposed to dismount, tether the horse, collect the road apples and stick them in their pockets for later disposal?
Horse droppings are not hard to dispose of in most areas. They are great fertilizer and are good things to put under the shrubbery or in amongst your rose bushes. As has been pointed out, they degrade rapidly.
On a multiple use path, they are a mess especially for cyclists. But I have seen multiple use paths with a grassy bridal trail paralleling the paved section and a few droppings on that are no big deal.
Denny Koll
I have ridden and taken care of horses. But that was a long time ago.
I have been wondering. Just how is the rider supposed to clean up after the horse? Are they supposed to dismount, tether the horse, collect the road apples and stick them in their pockets for later disposal?
Horse droppings are not hard to dispose of in most areas. They are great fertilizer and are good things to put under the shrubbery or in amongst your rose bushes. As has been pointed out, they degrade rapidly.
On a multiple use path, they are a mess especially for cyclists. But I have seen multiple use paths with a grassy bridal trail paralleling the paved section and a few droppings on that are no big deal.
I would say cleaning up the mess is your problem...not mine. You figure out a way to do it before you take your horse out to crap on my MUP. I would hope that this would at least be treated as seriously as a littering offense. The offender should be issued a ticket and a tresspass warning..in effect banning them from the trail for a period of time. If you can't figure a way to clean up after your animal...just ride on your own land and stay away from public paths.
crtreedude
Yes, cleaning up your mess should be your problem. Also, making sure your pet (yes, pet) is safe around others is your problem too.
It is much easier to ensure one horse is well trained than to ensure everyone who uses a MUP knows how not to spoke one. For that matter, if your horses are that spokable, what about if a trash bag blows in behind them and some poor sucker is in front? If an animal is prone to being jittery, it isn't just cyclist that will set it off. Truly an accident waiting to happen.
Bikepacker67
Does anyone else find it ironic that the OP wants us to take exceptional care when we're passing her while she's on her horse, yet at the same time, expects us to move the F out of her way when she's hauling her horse?
JLauren
It is much easier to ensure one horse is well trained than to ensure everyone who uses a MUP knows how not to spoke one.
If you have a tendency to spoke horses, I suggest you get better wheels.