Training & Nutrition - What do you think of soy?

What do you guys think of the soy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean. At the bottom of the page you will see links for "Advocacy and general information" and "Critical". I am playing it safe and consuming soy in moderation. Both camps, pro and vs. soy, are big industries with much at stake, so its hard to know what is misinformation.

Nothing wrong with soy, unless you eat it a LOT. Same can be said for many other things.

Me, I like soy products.:)

Soy is fine in moderation (see my note re Endurox shake). But, I've read recently that low fat chocolate milk may be a better recovery drink than chocolate soy.

Well I'm involved with the Weston A Price Foundation which lobies against the widespread use of soy, paticuarly in infant formula which the Foundation belives should be banned. See, http://westonaprice.org/

Now the WAPF is a traditionalist group so it considers that moderate consumption of traditionaly fremented soy foods is OK but not neccesarily ideal.

Highly proccessed western soy foods are a different story all together and they have no redeeming qualities. We are told that soy foods are healthy and safe because lots of asians consume soy foods and are healthy however traditional asian soy foods and modern western soy foods are 2 totaly different things.

Regards, Anthony

My wife and daughter love Natto which are fermented soy beans. They are light brown in color, a little like miniature pinto beans, but they are covered with a stringy, slimy goo. It looks and smells absolutely disgusting, but they said it's healthy and they eat it in moderation.

I eat it onlywhen going to sushi restaurants. Otherwise, I avoid it completely.

Soy can interfere with Thyroid function. It is not a very strong interference, but if you already have a thyroid issue, I would at least discuss it with your doctor.

Well I'm involved with the Weston A Price Foundation which lobies against the widespread use of soy, paticuarly in infant formula which the Foundation belives should be banned. See, http://westonaprice.org/

Now the WAPF is a traditionalist group so it considers that moderate consumption of traditionaly fremented soy foods is OK but not neccesarily ideal.

Highly proccessed western soy foods are a different story all together and they have no redeeming qualities. We are told that soy foods are healthy and safe because lots of asians consume soy foods and are healthy however traditional asian soy foods and modern western soy foods are 2 totaly different things.

Regards, Anthony

Thought it would be some bogus front for whatever, but looks sincere from a quick review (answers.com). Thanks

Others here (and other places) know much more than me . . . but there is emerging research that really says much more than a little soy is not so good. A few years ago you would have been very hard pressed to find anyone near mainstream that would say anything against soy products. Aikigreg first turned me on to some research on its downsides years ago on a different internet forum. When he first said stay away from it (especially if you are a guy) I thought he was nuts . . . that is how much the conventional wisdom was saying that soy is a wonder food. Then I read it. In the years since, much more has come out backing it up. In the past year the national tide has started to turn some.

Do a search for soy and estrogen and you will find plenty that will at least make you think. Whey protien based stuff seems to be preferable, unless you are a vegan.

Like all things, research on your own and see what you think.

Do a search for soy and estrogen and you will find plenty that will at least make you think. Whey protien based stuff seems to be preferable, unless you are a vegan.
Absolutely correct. There is a reason the entire fitness industry (i.e., male bodybuilders) avoids soy like the plague. Stick with whey, chicken, fish, turkey, egg, and micellar casein.

Lots of soy makes you girly man. Seriously, if I were a man, I would avoid large amounts of soy. In moderation it is fine, but don't drink gallons of soy every week. You might as well get put in estrogen replacement therapy for your hot flashes.

Lots of soy makes you girly man.

Really? Who do you know that this has happened to?:eek:

I hear people say this all the time, but no one has ever been able tell me they have any experience with anyone who has had this problem.:rolleyes:

Curious.

Really? Who do you know that this has happened to?:eek:

I hear people say this all the time, but no one has ever been able tell me they have any experience with anyone who has had this problem.:rolleyes:

Curious.


I had this problem, actually, and that's why I steer people away from both soy and vegetarianism. I went vegetarian for 6 years, and the majority of my protein intake, if not all, came from soy. I didn't know HOW to be a vegetarian and didn't eat quinoa or much in the way of beans and such.

Zoom out to 6 years later and I started having a host of health problems. At 28 years old I started to have to undergo hormone replacement, and it was directly attributed to my poor protein habits and overuse of soy.

It's unfrotunately why I've become so knowledgeable about steroids. I wasn't given a choice.

I had this problem, actually, and that's why I steer people away from both soy and vegetarianism. I went vegetarian for 6 years, and the majority of my protein intake, if not all, came from soy. I didn't know HOW to be a vegetarian and didn't eat quinoa or much in the way of beans and such.

Zoom out to 6 years later and I started having a host of health problems. At 28 years old I started to have to undergo hormone replacement, and it was directly attributed to my poor protein habits and overuse of soy.

It's unfrotunately why I've become so knowledgeable about steroids. I wasn't given a choice.


Greg, Sorry to hear about your problem.

I would be interested in understanding just how much soy protein you were eating. Not to be antagonistic, just to get an idea of your problem.

I have the opposite experience. I have been a vegan for 6 years, and while I eat a decent amount of soy, I don't eat an overabundance of it or at every meal, but I eat my share.

In these 6 years, I have had no negative health issues. On the contrary, my health has increased significantly.

So to have an understanding of your intake will help me substantiate my beliefs or not.

Based on your response, it sounds like you may have "overdone" it with soy consumption. I'm not saying that to be mean, that's just what it sounds like.

In either case, it is certainly not an indicator that vegetarianism/veganism is a bad thing. It has to be done "correctly" just like any dietary lifestyle.

For example, is eating meat bad? No. Not generally. Is eating bacon at every meal bad? Yes

I'm a vegetarian, and eat a lot of "fake" meats, that tend to be highly processed Soy, Textured Vegetable Protein, or Mycoprotein (Morningstar Farms, Boca, Quorn, etc). My wife and I love this stuff, but I suspect it isn't good for us so try not to get too crazy with it. We also eat plenty of dairy and beans, so I'm not that worried about too much of my protein coming from soy.

As regards the risks of soy, is it as dangerous in these highly processed foods as it is in more raw varieties?

Lots of soy makes you girly man. Seriously, if I were a man, I would avoid large amounts of soy. In moderation it is fine, but don't drink gallons of soy every week. You might as well get put in estrogen replacement therapy for your hot flashes.

Your body quickly learns to ignore hormones in food. When my wife tried various plant hormones for her menopausal symptoms, she got at most a day or two of relief. Your body adapts...

Soy in moderation is fine. The one poster who had problems consumed large amounts over a long period of time. To be honest, I wonder why he did that. Vegetarians eat beans. Lots of beans. Lots and lots of beans...

Oh, another poster said weightlifters avoided soy. This is not true. Soy used to be very popular; these things change with time, now whey is popular. In a year or two something else will be popular. So it goes... But you can easily find protein blends that contain soy. You see, the hormones are mostly in the fat, not the protein.
I know of one bodybuilder who believes that used carefully that soy protein can increase testosterone.
I have my doubts about that; but without thorough research this sort of speculation seems inevitable.

Yet another poster mentioned casein. I am a fan of casein because it digest slowly. I am not sure if the type he likes digests slowly, I think maybe not. To make a very long story short... protein is protein is protein.... An Amerian eating a varied diet will get plenty of high quality protein.

If you want to supplement with protein powder, which I do, I use and suggest good old fashioned milk protein. It's cheap, it works.

I strongly suggest avoiding goofy products. There are a lot of them and almost all of them are bought by people who should know better. Your body was not designed to absorb large amounts of predigested protein, megadoses of vitamins, bizarre mixtures of unresearched herbs, etc. These things will slow your progress down, not speed it up.

You may now return to your scheduled programming...

Your body quickly learns to ignore hormones in food. When my wife tried various plant hormones for her menopausal symptoms, she got at most a day or two of relief. Your body adapts...

Soy in moderation is fine. The one poster who had problems consumed large amounts over a long period of time. To be honest, I wonder why he did that. Vegetarians eat beans. Lots of beans. Lots and lots of beans...

Oh, another poster said weightlifters avoided soy. This is not true. Soy used to be very popular; these things change with time, now whey is popular. In a year or two something else will be popular. So it goes... But you can easily find protein blends that contain soy. You see, the hormones are mostly in the fat, not the protein.
I know of one bodybuilder who believes that used carefully that soy protein can increase testosterone.
I have my doubts about that; but without thorough research this sort of speculation seems inevitable.

Yet another poster mentioned casein. I am a fan of casein because it digest slowly. I am not sure if the type he likes digests slowly, I think maybe not. To make a very long story short... protein is protein is protein.... An Amerian eating a varied diet will get plenty of high quality protein.

If you want to supplement with protein powder, which I do, I use and suggest good old fashioned milk protein. It's cheap, it works.

I strongly suggest avoiding goofy products. There are a lot of them and almost all of them are bought by people who should know better. Your body was not designed to absorb large amounts of predigested protein, megadoses of vitamins, bizarre mixtures of unresearched herbs, etc. These things will slow your progress down, not speed it up.

You may now return to your scheduled programming...


I am telling you as a scientist I wouldn't eat large amounts of soy as a man(or even as a woman). Your body does not ignore hormones. You may become tolerant to a point, but moderation is the key. And your n=1 anecdotal evidence is hardly convincing. There is nothing wrong with drinking soy milk. But you had better not be drinking soy milk every day, and eating tofu, and having soy beans, and ...... You get my point. Eating soy as a whole natural product is not the same as eating processed soy. Also processed soy in the US is not the same as in asian countries.

Like others have said, meat isn't bad, but bacon at every meal is bad. Just eat it in moderation and you should be fine.

Go ahead and do a search in www.pubmed.com

I know of one bodybuilder who believes that used carefully that soy protein can increase testosterone.
Well that clearly will never be the case. If the guy wants more T then just up the depot T injections, LOL.

Apparently, both whey and soy isolate rate a perfect 1.0 on the PDCAAS scale, so they're both very good products. The thing to remember is that there are several extraction methods used to derive both soy & whey protein which likely explains some of the different experiences. If I would use soy protein, I'd just make sure it was the isolate type. Personally, I prefer to derive my daily protein from as many different sources as possible because each source has a very unique amino acid profile.

Greg, Sorry to hear about your problem.

I would be interested in understanding just how much soy protein you were eating. Not to be antagonistic, just to get an idea of your problem.

I have the opposite experience. I have been a vegan for 6 years, and while I eat a decent amount of soy, I don't eat an overabundance of it or at every meal, but I eat my share.

In these 6 years, I have had no negative health issues. On the contrary, my health has increased significantly.

So to have an understanding of your intake will help me substantiate my beliefs or not.

Based on your response, it sounds like you may have "overdone" it with soy consumption. I'm not saying that to be mean, that's just what it sounds like.

In either case, it is certainly not an indicator that vegetarianism/veganism is a bad thing. It has to be done "correctly" just like any dietary lifestyle.

For example, is eating meat bad? No. Not generally. Is eating bacon at every meal bad? Yes
+1

Add me to the list of Vegatarians/Vegans who eats a moderate amount of soy "food" I tend towards the real deal though, edamame, tempe, miso, shoyu sauce, some soy milk, etc.. and not so much the "processed" boca burger, fake meat style stuff (although occasionaly when strapped for meal ideas I do go to the freezer for something like that). I do eat a lot of other veggy/vegan protein stuff too, like seitan, beans, lentils etc... In both cases I try and buy organic when pratical. I also eat fish three or four times a month even though techically that is not veggy - this is something I may give up at some point. I do use soy-based protein shakes though, I may look at the label a little closer...

I'm not sure I buy into the anti-soy hoo-hah, most of it seems based on somewhat fuzzy research and questionable sample populations and dosages/amounts consumed etc... Secondly at age 46 some of the concerns don't really apply even if the dire warnings prove even remotely true.

I'm a vegetarian, and eat a lot of "fake" meats, that tend to be highly processed Soy, Textured Vegetable Protein, or Mycoprotein (Morningstar Farms, Boca, Quorn, etc). My wife and I love this stuff, but I suspect it isn't good for us so try not to get too crazy with it. We also eat plenty of dairy and beans, so I'm not that worried about too much of my protein coming from soy.

As regards the risks of soy, is it as dangerous in these highly processed foods as it is in more raw varieties?

See that was my problem. The majority of my protein intake came from soy, and it was a fairly low amount of protein anyway - maybe 15% of calories per day at most.

Obviously you can be vegetarian and be healthy - look at India for goodness sakes - but you'll never be muscular - you'll be tired a lot, and have other side effects as well. Just not smart, after having done the research myself over the years and having had enough anecdotal evidence.

Obviously you can be vegetarian and be healthy - look at India for goodness sakes - but you'll never be muscular - you'll be tired a lot, and have other side effects as well.


Shenanigans!

See that was my problem. The majority of my protein intake came from soy, and it was a fairly low amount of protein anyway - maybe 15% of calories per day at most.

Obviously you can be vegetarian and be healthy - look at India for goodness sakes - but you'll never be muscular - you'll be tired a lot, and have other side effects as well. Just not smart, after having done the research myself over the years and having had enough anecdotal evidence.

WRONG!

You can indeed be muscular, I'm living proof. I added a net of ~10-15 lbs of muscle since I started working out over 4 months ago. I am a vegetarian although I do eat some fish. However, with closer attention to diet I could have substituted my fish protein gram count with other sources. I don't really drink milk, but eggs and some cheese were in my diet too (I'm not vegan). I also used protein shakes (mainly soy based) during my active training period to get me to ~110-140 grams/day of protein.

Doing any of this without soy (processed or in whole form) as a protein source would be hard, not impossible, but hard. There are some folks who question if that much protein is needed to increase muscle strength - as opposed to pure mass - not sure I agree, but regardless and personal anecdotes aside, it is not true that you cannot be muscular and a vegetarian at the same time - it does require some close attention to diet though

As a coach, it is my opinion that people who think they have added 15 pounds of muscle have added about 4-6. Sorry, but I've trained a whole lot of people. You're not going to convince me otherwise.

As a coach, it is my opinion that people who think they have added 15 pounds of muscle have added about 4-6. Sorry, but I've trained a whole lot of people. You're not going to convince me otherwise.


aikigreg,

I don't think that was his point more than the fact that you cannot generalize your situation with that of the general population.

You yourself admitted that you screwed up you hormones by consuming an ill-conceived vegetarian diet.

Just because you had a bad experience does not make your statements valid for everyone else.

As a coach, it is my opinion that people who think they have added 15 pounds of muscle have added about 4-6. Sorry, but I've trained a whole lot of people. You're not going to convince me otherwise.

Well, we'll split the difference and call it 8 lbs. The increase in muscle was noticed by myself and my family, my love handles disappeared and most of my belly too, pant sizes by 2" but I only lost a few lbs of actual body weight. My trainer was checking my progress and indicated this was fairly normal for a medium intensive workout program 3 x week +biking +yoga

But you'll forgive me if I worry about your opinions about vegetarians with such ideas like:

"but you'll never be muscular - you'll be tired a lot, and have other side effects as well"

"it was a fairly low amount of protein anyway - maybe 15% of calories per day at most"

Most people's thinking about vegetarians is kooky at best, relying on "anecdotal evidence" and the such...

There are a lot of words in this thread, but as far as I can tell, not many facts, if any. A quick search brought this up:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060115154340.htm

This study showed no difference between soy and beef for weight training, except that beef raised chol (duh):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15931612&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

This study showed a drop in testosterone levels with the addition of soy protein, but there were no controls, nor were any strength or health effects of this drop assayed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17416779&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

I searched pubmed and didn't find a single human double blind study that showed any problem whatsoever with the intake of soy isoflavones. Where's the science? I also didn't find any such study which confirmed any special health benefits for soy, other than adding protein and fiber to the diet.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm a ovo/lacto/pisco vegetarian :) who eats a little soy, but not much. I get most of my protein from other plant sources and from dairy sources. A very little from fish.

Can we see some facts here?

All of these have references . . . this just is not my field of knowledge, so I cannot speak of controls or DB studies.
http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/food/soy_story.html
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/4/733
http://advance.uconn.edu/2007/070226/07022609.htm
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/02hotoffthepress.htm




This place is clearly anti-soy, but they do reference some studies, doctors, etc. I cannot speak to their validity.
http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm


This is like many things . . . I could link 50 more places and you could link 50 more that say soy is great.

I too have no dog in this race, except I do try to inform SOME people (I will explain in a moment) that soy MIGHT have some real negative sides to it. By SOME I only mean the people who just think soy is a wonder food that is perfect. People on a board like this are not likely to be that way, but they are not hard to find. I am not even saying it is not, rather just that people should read both sides.

When Aiki told me of some of this years ago (on a golf forum) I just kind of took it with some salt and did not think much . . . I did not eat much soy anyway. One connection a few years later at least made me think. My wife gets very bad migraines before her period. This is largely mitigated when on some types of birth control that control hormones at that time of the month. She does not get migraines at any other time that we know of. However, if she eats small bag (like a single serving lunch type bag) of soy chips she will get a migraine in a few hours. That is NOT a controlled study, that is not a double blind. It just made her and I read more about soy.

I personally believe we all need to make our own choices, but most should be informed. Nutrition is one of the many areas that one can find page after page of conflicting information, which is frustrating

WRONG!

You can indeed be muscular

You are correct, brocoli breath. A long time ago soy was 'In' and lots
of bodybuilders used it. The amount of hormones in pure protein of any sort is
microscopic... It's loaded with BCAAs and will pump you up about as good as any
of them.

You are correct, brocoli breath. A long time ago soy was 'In' and lots
of bodybuilders used it. The amount of hormones in pure protein of any sort is
microscopic... It's loaded with BCAAs and will pump you up about as good as any
of them.

HEY!! Broccoli Breath is MY nickname:D

A long time ago soy was 'In' and lots of bodybuilders used it. The amount of hormones in pure protein of any sort is microscopic... It's loaded with BCAAs and will pump you up about as good as any of them.
That is likely because whey was not available until recently (relatively speaking vis-a-vis soy, which has been around since the 1930's). Since whey protein was isolated, it has been the dominant source of protein supplementation for the fitness industry. Now there is a lot at stake for a lot of people in that industry, so clearly the self-advocating propoganda should be acknowledged for what it is. And along those lines, based upon some of the stuff that I've read, soy protein ISOLATE may have been given a bad rap. And with the recent sticker shock you're about to experience with whey, it might be a good time to consider using soy protein ISOLATE.

As far as BCAA's, just do what I did - buy 20 pounds of the stuff from distribution, LOL.

My sister had a total hysterectomy due to bad endometriosis and ovarian cysts. She was having problems getting her hormones balanced after the fact and they discovered that it was her soy consumption. Scary thing is that she wasn’t eating that much soy…

I’m not paranoid about eating a little now and then but as for eating it as a key protein source… no thanks.

Do you prefer the name Manziere or the Bro?

I have learned a long time ago you will never convince anyone over the internet posts like this. You guys want to eat soy, enjoy. With this much controversy about soy and the fact that there are so many other great protein sources, I choose to avoid it.

Soy is good for me, I like it.

Absolutely correct. There is a reason the entire fitness industry (i.e., male bodybuilders) avoids soy like the plague. Stick with whey, chicken, fish, turkey, egg, and micellar casein.
+1, Soy is evil!

My daughter is allergic to soy. They put it in nearly every processed, packaged food product. Why? I have no idea. They put it in places it's got no business being, as far as I'm concerned. It must be cheap.

My daughter is allergic to soy. They put it in nearly every processed, packaged food product. Why? I have no idea. They put it in places it's got no business being, as far as I'm concerned. It must be cheap.


Soy lecithin is a good, cheap emulsifier which is what it would be used for in the majority of proccessed foods. Rightly or wrongly a tiny bit of soy lecithin doesn't worry me but then again I hardly consume any proccessed foods anyway for a vast range of reasons.

Its the soy milk, soy protein isolate, soy oil and TVP that I realy avoid. Actualy soy oil is going to be a undisclosed ingredient in many proccessed foods (the packaging will just say "vegetable oil") which is a major reason why I avoid proccessed foods.

Regards, Anthony

I've had a vegan diet for about 7 years and I am extremely active. I go on rides or hikes for several hours, play indoor soccer games, and have good musculature (especially in my legs). To date, I have not grown tits, my dick hasn't fallen off, nor have I developed a vagina. I eat a metric f-ckton of soy and am alive and very well.
Not really sure what's behind the anti-soy campaign, but it's pretty silly.

I've had a vegan diet for about 7 years and I am extremely active. I go on rides or hikes for several hours, play indoor soccer games, and have good musculature (especially in my legs). To date, I have not grown tits, my dick hasn't fallen off, nor have I developed a vagina. I eat a metric f-ckton of soy and am alive and very well.
Not really sure what's behind the anti-soy campaign, but it's pretty silly.

Ratfish,

I am right there with you but. I don't eat a f-ckton of soy:D, but I eat my share and have ZERO problems.

My sister had a total hysterectomy due to bad endometriosis and ovarian cysts. She was having problems getting her hormones balanced after the fact and they discovered that it was her soy consumption. Scary thing is that she wasn’t eating that much soy…

I’m not paranoid about eating a little now and then but as for eating it as a key protein source… no thanks.
I was eating tofu dishes about 2x a week, and soy milk in my cereal and coffee/tea almost daily. The cessasion of that has greatly improved my endometriosis symptoms and stabilized my thyroid hormone levels. (I don't have a thyroid anymore.) I have heard of some men experiencing whacked-out hormones from moderate amounts of soy and other men not having any from lots. Some women seem to respond wonderfully to soy for perimenopausal symptoms and it makes things worse for others. Many people with peanut allergies are also allergic to soy and vice versa, and I find that alarming considering the number of kids who are allergic to peanuts these days.

I suspect that over time it will come out that some people are more susceptible to soy than others and it will be better understood why that is. Meantime, experiment at your own risk.

I've had a vegan diet for about 7 years and I am extremely active. I go on rides or hikes for several hours, play indoor soccer games, and have good musculature (especially in my legs). To date, I have not grown tits, my dick hasn't fallen off, nor have I developed a vagina. I eat a metric f-ckton of soy and am alive and very well.
Not really sure what's behind the anti-soy campaign, but it's pretty silly.

I'll testify to that. If anything decreases the size of your manhood it's fat. I've experienced this first hand (pun intended). I used to weigh 245lbs, had tits (no joke), and a smaller shaft than before putting weight on. Switching to a vegetarian diet (among other things) got me down to 170lbs, loss of the excess blubber made me "more of a man" so to say. the past 6 months, I've gone vegan and lost another 10lbs. Processed soy is by far my main protein source, I'm stronger than ever, and my resting heart rate has gone down to 42bpm (depending on stress, sleep quality).

Of course I can understand not giving soy to infants, but only a damned fool would do anything but breastfeed a baby. Unless there is some medical reason that it cannot occur, every mother should do it. You think pouches filled with milk with nozzles on your chest when you've had a kid are for decoration?

The real threat of hormones in the diet comes from meat and dairy, with all of the **** they put in it. Spend the extra money and get the organic products, the difference in price is worth every penny.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020105/bob13.asp

Of course I can understand not giving soy to infants, but only a damned fool would do anything but breastfeed a baby. Unless there is some medical reason that it cannot occur, every mother should do it. You think pouches filled with milk with nozzles on your chest when you've had a kid are for decoration?



You've somehow managed to give breastfeeding - one of the most positive things on the planet - bad associations. Yes, it has numerous benefits to both child and mother, and is a positive experience for the vast majority of mothers that do it.

HOWEVER, telling women what to do with their bodies and presuming to prioritize the concerns in their lives is way out of bounds. The "decoration" comment is just ridiculous and way over the top. Mothers have lives to live, and many concerns (many of which relate to their children) to balance...have some respect.

Breasts are decorative, like it or not; heck whole industries are run around that fact.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u164/Enthalpic/feeding_-_3and4.jpg

Some vegan bodybuilders/athletes for any doubters:

Bodybuilders:
Alexander Dargatz:
http://a131.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00481/03/10/481430130_l.jpg
Kris Flannery:
http://a393.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00481/29/31/481431392_l.jpg
Bob Cheeke:
http://a220.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00481/91/26/481346219_l.jpg
Mike Mahler (rocks!!):
http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/mike-milpress.jpg
Big Ben Schosha:
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/imgs/albums/BigBen/b16.jpg

and some other athletes:
Brendan Brazier - Ironman triathlete/ultramarathoner:
http://www.brendanbrazier.com/images/sidepic_bio.png
Scott Jurek - One of the world's top ultramarathoners:
http://www.scottjurek.com/pho/career.jpg

Wow, Big Ben is a monster!

Mike Mahler is big too. The kettlebells in his hand are the "small" 44# ones I believe, and he can sling around the 88# bells like they are nothing.:eek:

Mike Mahler is big too. The kettlebells in his hand are the "small" 44# ones I believe, and he can sling around the 88# bells like they are nothing.:eek:

Oh yeah, that photo kind of escaped my notice the first time. Pretty darn big!

Not the type of physique I am aiming for, but a good demonstration that vegans are getting there in terms of muscle mass.

I don't think bodybuilders even PRETEND to be drug free these day's do they. Isn't there a drug FREE class for those who are into such things.

Regards, Anthony

I don't think bodybuilders even PRETEND to be drug free these day's do they. Isn't there a drug FREE class for those who are into such things.

Regards, Anthony

Yes, as a matter of fact.

And the people whose pictures I posted are all natural thank you very much, so show some respect.

I just don't see the point in eating something so bland. Even the texture of it repulsive. Which is why soy products are always engineered to taste and feel like something else. There are so many other foods which are enjoyable to eat and have more substantive nutritional benefits, so why not eat those instead?


Some vegan bodybuilders/athletes for any doubters:
Sorry man, but a lot of these guys look like freaks. When your head no longer matches your body its time to lay off the roids. The tri-guys look okay.