IRD cassettes ?

[Fenlason]

Hi:

Does anyone have any experience with IRD cassettes? I have just done some upgrades to my Santanna Beyound, and am having some troubles. I have done handle bars, stems, and brakes, which are all fine. I also switched over to Dura Ace 10 speed [double] shifters, DA deraileurs, and a tighter 11-28 IRD cassette.

The bikes shifts horribly in the rear. After a bit of exploring it seems, as if the culprit is the cass. Oh I do have a new connex chain... I forget the number but it is the nickle plated one. [1058?].

It shifts very slowly in both directions. [the hanger also is very straight] I have checked and rechecked all the casings... the cable, and ferules very carefully.. to make sure there is nothing slowing it down. [and have done several replacements just to be sure]

I put on an 11-23 105 that we had on hand... and that shifts well. [on the stand... it was pouring out today]

I have not yet double checked the cassette by putting it on my older Soveriegn [where I put the Ultegra parts from the beyound][ it had been set up with bar ends.], but I should do that.

any thoughts?

thanks in advance
glenn

[KRhea]

Glenn, can't comment on any problems with IRD cassttes but I currently have them on 3 different road bikes and one on our Santana and they've worked extremely well.
I'm using a 3 that are Campy compatible and one Shimano DA 9speed.

KRhea

[TandemGeek]

...any thoughts?

Ask for a replacement to see if yours just happens to be hosed up. The reports on the IRDs seem to vary from love to hate, with very similar stories to yours coming from the "never again" crowd.

If the replacement is as bad as the first one... what are the odds?

[Fenlason]

I did forget to add... We did have a another one of these cassettes at the shop. an exact match to the one I have... and that did not work either. I do not know if they are of the same "batch", or not.

I also, at around the same time I ordered this cassette, had ordered a spare 11-34 from Santana. [they had the first wide range 10 speed cassettes that I knew of].

This new spare... is different than the one my Beyond came stock with. The odd thing is ... except for the lockring... it looks identical to the one from IRD.

I was worried how that one would work. I of course had to put the longer caged XTR deraileur back on... but that one seems to work fine. So anyways at least now the new bike is rideable... until I can get something of a fix. I really really do not like the jumps on these stock cassettes. 11-13-15.
I belive Santana has a tighter range cassette available now also. Although I do not recall the size.

glenn

[Hermes]

I really really do not like the jumps on these stock cassettes. 11-13-15.
I belive Santana has a tighter range cassette available now also. Although I do not recall the size.



I wanted to change my 11/34 for a 11/23 shimano for two upcoming flat TTs to have 11-12-13-14 etc. I assume any 10sp shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace cassette will fit the Santana. Is that correct?

[TandemGeek]

I wanted to change my 11/34 for a 11/23 shimano for two upcoming flat TTs to have 11-12-13-14 etc. I assume any 10sp shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace cassette will fit the Santana. Is that correct?

If you have Shimano 10 on your Santana, any Shimano 10 spd cassette will work. Just remember to use a shorter chain with the smaller cassette and to adjust your B-screw to tighten-up the rear derailleur movement to match the size of the cassette.

Speaking of which.... Back to Her Fenlason's issue: did you adjust the B-screw to bring the idler wheel in closer to the cassette? It's a stretch, but it's worth a try given the change from a 34t to a 28t out back.

[BloomingCyclist]

...This new spare... is different than the one my Beyond came stock with. The odd thing is ... except for the lockring... it looks identical to the one from IRD. ...glenn

I replaced our original Santana 11-34 10 speed cassette with a new one I bought from Santana in the fall. I actually talked to Bill about their new lighter cassette (large cogs are on a spider instead of being a solid disc like my older one) and that IRD had also begun selling wide-range 10 speed cassettes in 11-34 and 11-32. He said the Santana cassettes were made by an Asian company GIANG (as it says on the lockring) and he said it was likely that GIANG also made the IRD cassettes. Since you've seen them both and they look identical, I imagine that Bill's conjecture is right.

It turned out that my single biggest problem in deteriorating shifting was a shift cable that was fraying inside my lever and I also had a kink in the housing by the rear derailleur.

You said that your shifting was slow in both directions. With the chain on the smallest cog, if you shift to a lower gear by grabbing the cable by the chainstay with your hand and pull it out to shift over a few cogs and then release, does the it shift back to the high gear easily? If it does, I think you have friction somewhere ahead of that or the spring in your rear derailleur isn't strong enough to pull the chain over and make the shift.

Another question I have (and one I was thinking about posting about) is the chain widths and the effect on shifting. My Santana 10 speed (in Jan 2006) came with a KMC DX10 chain that measured about 6.05 mm. The shifting was excellent. When I changed cassettes and put on new chains, I put on an Ultegra 6600 (narrow chain). I had some trouble getting the shifting as good as I thought it used to be. That chain measures around 5.89 to 5.90 mm. I know that the inside distance hasn't changed but I still wonder if the fact that the chain is so much narrower makes it harder for the chain to be picked up by the next cog. I need to get a wider chain and just try it out. However I believe the newer DX10 is narrower than the older one - so it's not trivial. When I look at websites selling chains, some list the chain width and some don't and I don't get a feeling of confidence that the websites really know.

I do know that I get some occasional "skating" of the chain when I shift from the large chain ring to the middle one and I never had that with my original chains. I think my front FSA triple crank is one that tries it be both 9 and 10 speed compatible and I think it may be on the edge or over the edge of being compatible with the newest narrow 10 speed chains.

My shifting is near perfect for me now except for the occasional skating and that seldom occurs so I am optimistic that you will get yours figured out.

Good luck with your trouble shooting.

Bloomington, IN

[Fenlason]

This bike seems to shift better on the stand than it does outside with any load. Hopefully tonight the rain will let up enough to see if this new cassette from Santana works.

My new Santana cassette is stamped as being made by GIANG. The one from IRD..appears identical except for what is stamped on the lock ring. Even the plastic pieces that hold it together until installation, is indentical. So I would say that they are the same.

I have wondered about chain issues here also. So I will have to try that.

I will also try the cassette in question on the Sovereign. That currently has all the 10 sp parts that came on the Beyound... that worked well.

Each bike has FSA chain rings. although not the same. One of the guys at the shop is going to let me try his Sram 11-26 cass. and we will try this IRD cass. on his bike also.

I have freinds with a 10sp set up on a new Paketa. We used Miche seperate cass. parts to make up their cassete. It seems to work well. I did not like the idea of individual cassettes.. vs a set up using a spider. Until i realized my original cass. from Santana was build in the same way. I still prefer the spider route, but it does give me an option.

yes the B screw has been looked at. [I am definately open to hearing about any little thing i might have over looked] . When we had the 34 on ..... we had an XTR deraileur, When we went to the 28.. we put on a short cage DA.

All the parts were changed at once. Everything in the drivetrain was switch over... except for the crank and bb, and the rear wheel.

thanks
glenn

[Fenlason]

updates:

first bloomingcyclist: I had tried shifting at the derailer itself. I shift the bike into 8tj fpr example... then either shift with the cable on the chain stay... or physically move the deraileur itself. It still did not shift properly. The deraileur was a brand new DA and the spring tension was very strong... and there did not seem to be any friction. I had also tried other deraileurs... with no change in performance.

I have since put on the new 11-34 Giang cass. from Santana. I did of course have to put the XTR rear deraileur back on. This works great. I was concerned that both cass. being made by Giang might have the same problem.

I have yet to hear from IRD yet. [they don't answer the phone... and they say an email answer may take 5 days. ]

We have seperate spacer kits at the shop, I may try chaning those out, to see if that helps.

glenn

[Hermes]

Just had a new 11/23 Shimano Ultegra 10 speed cassette installed on my Santana. Shifts perfectly without any adjustment needed. However, we do have a relatively new Ultegra chain. Now we just need the power to turn it.:rolleyes: