Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - MY rant: guys who make it hard for the rest of us

So I'm riding yesterday in downtown Eugene, supposedly officially one of the most bike-friendly towns in the country, heading north in the bike lane of a one-way and entering an intersection with the green, when flying in from my right, going the wrong way in the bike lane of an eastbound one-way, against the light (and with no helmet, but that's another rant for another day) is another singlespeed guy. I have to take some serious evasive action to prevent bike-on-bike spattering of gore.

Me: (firmly, but not really p*ssed) "Hey, guy ... watch the lights!"
Him: "I'm on a BIKE! I don't HAVE to watch the lights!!"

This is why the car people hate us.
This is why the government bodies who pass the laws won't protect us.
This is why cops always assume that the accident was our fault.
This is why we die far more often than we should.

There. I feel better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4

Sprint him down. Beat his ass. You live in America. Strong arm ****!

Ehh he was just another of the many dipsh|ts that walk this earth. Be glad he was riding a bike and not driving a car.

When it's safe I run reds. Only when it's safe.

When it's safe I run reds. Only when it's safe.

Do you understand why cars hate bikers? Even when it's safe, a driver looks at you as "Oh, just another biker that runs lights." If you're in a hurry to get to point B, just drive.

If you're in a hurry to sit at stoplights, just drive.

If you're in a hurry to be an elitist *******, ride a bike.

So I'm riding yesterday in downtown Eugene, supposedly officially one of the most bike-friendly towns in the country, heading north in the bike lane of a one-way and entering an intersection with the green, when flying in from my right, going the wrong way in the bike lane of an eastbound one-way, against the light (and with no helmet, but that's another rant for another day) is another singlespeed guy. I have to take some serious evasive action to prevent bike-on-bike spattering of gore.

Me: (firmly, but not really p*ssed) "Hey, guy ... watch the lights!"
Him: "I'm on a BIKE! I don't HAVE to watch the lights!!"

This is why the car people hate us.
This is why the government bodies who pass the laws won't protect us.
This is why cops always assume that the accident was our fault.
This is why we die far more often than we should.

There. I feel better.
this is why i ride with a basket on my beater

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4this is awesome

^^i 2nd that.. funny as well

god I hate crappy animation, if you have a computer you can definately do way better than some crappy grey scale body blob.

If you're in a hurry to get to point B, just drive.
?

You do realize that driving is slower than riding on most urban routes during the day, right?

Yeah, blowing reds makes us (me) seem irresponsible. Do I care? No.
If that guy in the car gets pissed that I can blow the red and he can't because the cops will nail him, let that guy get his ass on a bike and follow suit.

don't worry about it, darwin will get him...
or karma...

?

You do realize that driving is slower than riding on most urban routes during the day, right?

Yeah, blowing reds makes us (me) seem irresponsible. Do I care? No.
If that guy in the car gets pissed that I can blow the red and he can't because the cops will nail him, let that guy get his ass on a bike and follow suit.

Man that's totally what I'm saying... who cares what that dude thinks of me... or any other cyclist. If he's all like "I'm so pissed off, I'm gonna hit that cyclist with my car!!!" and then he can't get me cause I'm all like "ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!"... then I'll be all 'LULZ'.

But later on, when someone has a negative attitude towards cyclists, I'm gonna whip out my double standards and be all up in their face tellin' them to "**** a duck".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4



I LOL'd.

Some here want to be treated as a vehicle, but only when it suits them. Double standards it sounds like to me

biodegradable :D

Some here want to be treated as a vehicle, but only when it suits them. Double standards it sounds like to me

yeah, that's pretty much me. i take the lane when it's unsafe for cars to pass or when i'm moving at the speed of traffic, and i even occasionally hop onto the sidewalk when it's safer than the street.

i ride with enough caution and awareness to avoid endangering others and i don't inconvenience drivers unless it's necessary for my safety. i feel that entitles me to do pretty much whatever i want within those parameters.

when they put a bike lane on every street and actually ticket drivers for entering it illegally, i'll consider playing the "vehicular cycling" game.

I think it boils down to the attitude. the guy in the OP's thread will pay for his one day, hopefully another cyclist or motorist wont. Believing your bike makes you immune to any consequence of traffic laws is pretty lame.

i second that

yeah, that's pretty much me. i take the lane when it's unsafe for cars to pass or when i'm moving at the speed of traffic, and i even occasionally hop onto the sidewalk when it's safer than the street.

i ride with enough caution and awareness to avoid endangering others and i don't inconvenience drivers unless it's necessary for my safety. i feel that entitles me to do pretty much whatever i want within those parameters.

when they put a bike lane on every street and actually ticket drivers for entering it illegally, i'll consider playing the "vehicular cycling" game.

Im not so sure.

I consider myself to be a pretty good cyclist, in that I am alert, quickwitted, good reactions etc. But am I 100% sure that if I ride on the pavement/run a red then I'm not going to cause an accident that may kill or injure someone. No. And its not even about being held accountable by the law/other people.

i think what's obnoxious is not that the biker ran the red, but that he did so unsafely while another biker had the right of way.

that said, ever biker in the damn world could be the most law abiding rider ever, and the automobilists would still say, "you should spend your time making sure you all follow the law instead of lobbying for more safe infrastructure" and dumb **** like that. because that line always makes an appearance. always, always, always.

which means that it's not that rider who's making it hard for the rest of us. it is the skewed prioritization toward car culture.

I think critical mass does worse for biking's image to everyone else than a guy running reds.

But that's just me, and I'm pretty RAAR.

Honestly, I don't give a crap about "bike rights" beyond "Killing me is a really bad idea." I don't care for bike lanes (More like death traps and double parking zones) at all, I lock up to parking meters, I deal with *******s in my own way.

And its not even about being held accountable by the law/other people.

exactly. it sounds cliche to say that i obey a more fundamental set of rules than traffic laws, but it's sort of true. what's really important is that we all get where we're going safely.

and you're right, even the most skilled cyclist can not be 100 percent certain that they won't endanger someone when breaking a traffic law. but you can't be certain of that even when you're obeying the law.

it can be argued ad nauseum whether or not obeying the law is always the safest thing to do, and it depends on the situation, but i'm obviously in the "not" camp.

Honestly, I don't give a crap about "bike rights" beyond "Killing me is a really bad idea." I don't care for bike lanes (More like death traps and double parking zones)

that may be, but the Liveable Streets movement has a lot, lot, lot to offer bikers. Killing you is a bad idea; logic would follow that good ideas would include getting more cars off the street, traffic calming measures to make existing auto traffic safer, trying to reduce air pollution so neither you nor the entire populations of whole ****ing neighborhoods have chronic asthma...

So I'm riding yesterday in downtown Eugene, supposedly officially one of the most bike-friendly towns in the country, heading north in the bike lane of a one-way and entering an intersection with the green, when flying in from my right, going the wrong way in the bike lane of an eastbound one-way, against the light (and with no helmet, but that's another rant for another day) is another singlespeed guy. I have to take some serious evasive action to prevent bike-on-bike spattering of gore.

Me: (firmly, but not really p*ssed) "Hey, guy ... watch the lights!"
Him: "I'm on a BIKE! I don't HAVE to watch the lights!!"

This is why the car people hate us.
This is why the government bodies who pass the laws won't protect us.
This is why cops always assume that the accident was our fault.
This is why we die far more often than we should.

There. I feel better.

Sometimes, being the law-abiding citizen that I am, as I wait at a red light, see a cyclist cross the street at the red light, passing me by. That infuriates me (here I completely agree with your feelings about guys who make it hard for the rest of us). So when it gets green, the adrenaline produced by the rage propels me forward and I always overtake the ****er, and yell at him (sometimes her) "So, was it really worth crossing at the red light, huh? Are you any further in your life, for it, huh?" and then I fly forward and leave him/her behind in their cloud of shame and inadequacy. That always makes my day.

and you're right, even the most skilled cyclist can not be 100 percent certain that they won't endanger someone when breaking a traffic law. but you can't be certain of that even when you're obeying the law.

it can be argued ad nauseum whether or not obeying the law is always the safest thing to do, and it depends on the situation, but i'm obviously in the "not" camp.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, and my post is directed at giving my rationale for how I cycle rather than being prescriptive, but Im not sure you caught my point.

To use an analogy, suppose I drove. I might feel 100% sure that I could drive 10mph over the speed limit safely on a given stretch of road. Now one day, I kill a child. At least, had I been obeying the law, it would be some consolation to think that I had been doing everything right.

The same idea strikes me as compelling when I am cycling. Suppose I run a red, causing a car to swerve and kill a child. Im going to feel a lot worse then if I was doing everything right and obeying the law.

Granted, I'm not sure this is going to happen to many cyclists. But I will bet that a large proportion of traffic accidents are caused by people being 100% sure it was safe for them to break the rules (because according to some, being able to drive/cycle fast/recklessly and get away with it makes them a good driver). I dont want that guy to be me.

Sometimes, being the law-abiding citizen that I am, as I wait at a red light, see a cyclist cross the street at the red light, passing me by. That infuriates me (here I completely agree with your feelings about guys who make it hard for the rest of us). So when it gets green, the adrenaline produced by the rage propels me forward and I always overtake the ****er, and yell at him (sometimes her) "So, was it really worth crossing at the red light, huh? Are you any further in your life, for it, huh?" and then I fly forward and leave him/her behind in their cloud of shame and inadequacy. That always makes my day.

Wow, you're pretty pathetic. First, because you get angry when someone doesn't agree with you on something like what to do at a red light while riding a bike and second because riding your bicycle faster than someone else makes you feel better about yourself.

And yes, it is worth it. I have to stop at approximately 15 lights on my 20 mile commute and I always proceed with caution when the traffic flow permits it. If I waited 30 seconds more at each light it would cost me 7 1/2 minutes. Running reds on my ride means I get to hit the snooze button one more time. I cherish my 7 1/2 minutes laying it bed, don't try to take that away form me.

But I will bet that a large proportion of traffic accidents are caused by people being 100% sure it was safe for them to break the rules (because according to some, being able to drive/cycle fast/recklessly and get away with it makes them a good driver). I dont want that guy to be me.

yeah, i think we agree in principle and only differ slightly in practice. i agree that i would be completely destroyed if in doing something illegal, i was the cause of someone getting hurt.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, and my post is directed at giving my rationale for how I cycle rather than being prescriptive, but Im not sure you caught my point.

To use an analogy, suppose I drove. I might feel 100% sure that I could drive 10mph over the speed limit safely on a given stretch of road. Now one day, I kill a child. At least, had I been obeying the law, it would be some consolation to think that I had been doing everything right.

The same idea strikes me as compelling when I am cycling. Suppose I run a red, causing a car to swerve and kill a child. Im going to feel a lot worse then if I was doing everything right and obeying the law.

Granted, I'm not sure this is going to happen to many cyclists. But I will bet that a large proportion of traffic accidents are caused by people being 100% sure it was safe for them to break the rules (because according to some, being able to drive/cycle fast/recklessly and get away with it makes them a good driver). I don't want that guy to be me.

I see what you're saying and I think it's true to some degree but I don't think that a very many accidents are caused by people breaking the rules thinking it's safe to do so. The number one cause of accidents is inattentiveness, not rule breaking. Besides, I'm thinking that most accidents caused by people breaking the rules happen when people know that what they are doing is dangerous but they don't care.

EDIT- OP: post this crap in A&S next time.

Man that's totally what I'm saying... who cares what that dude thinks of me... or any other cyclist. If he's all like "I'm so pissed off, I'm gonna hit that cyclist with my car!!!" and then he can't get me cause I'm all like "ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!"... then I'll be all 'LULZ'.

But later on, when someone has a negative attitude towards cyclists, I'm gonna whip out my double standards and be all up in their face tellin' them to "**** a duck".
Ya see, that's not me being all up in their face.
All I ask is that people do not endanger me intentionally, and I never endanger others intentionally or block their path on purpose for that matter. Live and let live, without being too deeply interested in what the rulebook says, that's my philosophy.
Yeah, I split lanes... WTF should any driver care that I got in front of them, I don't take the lane and they're gonna go past me without much drama if they catch up with me again.

If you're in a hurry to sit at stoplights, just drive.

in cities like Boston driving is rarely faster than cycling... and a parking spot costs $1000 a month where I live... so there are numerous reason why when in a hurry you can't "just drive".

I commonly break traffic laws because they aren't really designed for our safety and because cars often times don't realize or respect our right to the road and therefore there are cases when it is safest to use your own judgment... of instance at some intersections here it is safest and the most beneficial for both cars, cyclist, and peds for me to go when the lights is at a four way Red for Pedestrians to cross, this gives be a chance to get through the intersection and then get over to the right before the next pack of cars catches up with me...

The problem with irresponsible bike riding is that it is more fuel for the legislature/city council to pass laws that specifically make it harder for us as bikers. In the end, all bikers pay for the irresponsible riding of the shortsighted few. How do I know? I participated at the state assembly meetings all the time as both an intern and observer, and it's amazing how people's ignorance of the biking community is based purely on personal anecdotes and urban myths.

+1, that's exactly what I thought when reading the first post in this thread "this is why critical mass doesn't work!"


I think critical mass does worse for biking's image to everyone else than a guy running reds.

But that's just me, and I'm pretty RAAR.

Honestly, I don't give a crap about "bike rights" beyond "Killing me is a really bad idea." I don't care for bike lanes (More like death traps and double parking zones) at all, I lock up to parking meters, I deal with *******s in my own way.

cry more noob.

I see what you're saying and I think it's true to some degree but I don't think that a very many accidents are caused by people breaking the rules thinking it's safe to do so. The number one cause of accidents is inattentiveness, not rule breaking. Besides, I'm thinking that most accidents caused by people breaking the rules happen when people know that what they are doing is dangerous but they don't care.

Do you have any reference to support any of these statements, or did you just pull them all from your butt, to support your sistematic breaking of the law?

i think what's obnoxious is not that the biker ran the red, but that he did so unsafely while another biker had the right of way.

that said, ever biker in the damn world could be the most law abiding rider ever, and the automobilists would still say, "you should spend your time making sure you all follow the law instead of lobbying for more safe infrastructure" and dumb **** like that. because that line always makes an appearance. always, always, always.

which means that it's not that rider who's making it hard for the rest of us. it is the skewed prioritization toward car culture.

Yes, yes, and yes. No dis to other posters here, but this can of worms is opened every fifteen minutes. QP, yr getting me to finally get around to writing up the "right" way to be a good, safe and law-abiding biker while respecting other bikers, and drivers, and how to blow lights/stops/ride on the left side of the road etc. I wanted to do this in particular in Montreal, where they're doing all of this "bike friendly" stuff again now that it's spring, that they told me all about in a flyer (not in the language of the majority of the population) printed by the city that was given to me by a city employee standing in the middle of the bike lane on a narrow street, keeping bicycle traffic from passing.

I see what you're saying and I think it's true to some degree but I don't think that a very many accidents are caused by people breaking the rules thinking it's safe to do so. The number one cause of accidents is inattentiveness, not rule breaking. Besides, I'm thinking that most accidents caused by people breaking the rules happen when people know that what they are doing is dangerous but they don't care.

EDIT- OP: post this crap in A&S next time.


Seriously, if anything, I'm way more attentive when I'm doing something illegal,like running a red light. I'm simultaneously checking for cops, other cyclists, pedestrians,and most importantly, cars that could kill me. If it looks super busy at an interesection, I stop, and wait to proceed until I have a break in traffic I can safely make.

A lot of my riding is done at hours when few cars are on the road. Take the last 24 hours for instance. I rode half an hour to uptown minneapolis, through downtown at around 6:30, and istopped at almost all the roadlights whilst in downtown because there were cars and cops everywhere. When I came home at 12:30am, there were almost no cars, so I ran most of the lights, and I also rode no handed most of the ride, a mixture of it being comfortable, and I think it's helpful for improving my balance.

This morning, I woke up at 6am to ride to work, which is always at 4 or 6am for me, and then I had the same situation. Few to no cars on most roads, no handed relaxed pace riding when i felt like it, cranking and mashing when i felt like it. My commute home? Back to the more cautious red light approach.

The other day, I made a move at a red light in which I put 0 people in danger, and was through the intersection without so much as causing a need for any driver anywhere to have to think about braking. Some fat ******* I was waiting next to at the light for a moment(i HAD come to a stop to check things out, as it was a hard intersection to read from where i was coming from) in a suburban felt he needed to catch up to me on the street i turned onto, pace me, roll his window down, and stutter out "Maybe you should follow the laws of the road" to which I laughed at him and said "maybe..." (though in retrospect, I wish i would have made fun of him for being fat). Was he driving safely by concerning himself with pacing and talking to a cyclist while he drove? No. Did I put him in harms way? No. He was just pissed off that he couldn't turn at the intersection and I did.

Trust me, as a driver and a cyclist, most drivers are ****ing horrible and don't follow traffic laws. Why should cyclists be expected to be so much holier than drivers, especially considering that we have, in most cases, much more time to make a snap judgement than a motorist does.

Why should cyclists be expected to be so much holier than drivers, especially considering that we have, in most cases, much more time to make a snap judgement than a motorist does.

Because people who invent all sorts of excuses why laws don't apply to them, are twats.

the laws still apply, I wont fight any ticket I am given.

But the laws are changing, they arnt going to stay this way for bikes forever, having one set that applies equally to cars and bikes just doesn't make sense.

Look at Iowa, where bicycles dont need to stop at stop signs if there is no traffic, these laws will spread.

Some here want to be treated as a vehicle, but only when it suits them. Double standards it sounds like to me

bicycles are not cars and its silly to try and treat them that way. in the eyes of the law, it's the best solution (that doesn't require thought or any work) that they have come up with, bud it's not adequate. the general rule of cars is "follow all the laws correctly and you wont get into an accident". the general rule for cyclists is "watch the **** out, because you are entirely responsible for your own welfare whether you follow the laws or not". sometimes these ideologies intersect, often they do not.

the short version: it would be a double standard if it weren't apples and oranges.

Because people who invent all sorts of excuses why laws don't apply to them, are twats.

not any more than people who dogmatically believe in a system of laws that doesn't support their safety or welfare, for no other reason than "its the law".

Because people who invent all sorts of excuses why laws don't apply to them, are twats.

i'm sorry your that world is this black and white. or maybe i'm happy for you, i'm not sure.

i'm sorry your that world is this black and white. or maybe i'm happy for you, i'm not sure.


not any more than people who dogmatically believe in a system of laws that doesn't support their safety or welfare, for no other reason than "its the law".


Look, break the law if you have to, but don't hide behind some half-assed excuses. Own it, say it as it is, it's breaking the law. Maybe you don't like that law, maybe you think it's unfair, but don't ****ing kid yourself that it doesn't apply to you. It does.

Dirtyphotons do you think it should be legal for cyclists to run red lights when it is safe to do so?

Do you have any reference to support any of these statements, or did you just pull them all from your butt, to support your sistematic breaking of the law?

There is plenty of evidence to support my theory, but determining the cause of accidents can be difficult since there are many things that are factors in a collision and these factors are not always know or reported. For example, the cause of many collisions may be listed as "failure to yield right of way" when really the problem was that one or more of the drivers was not paying attention. In this study (http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments/nrd-12/809-779/pages/ExecSumm.htm) it was found that a the three major factors in fatal accidents where somebody either failed to yield or failed to obey at a traffic control devices were alcohol, speeding, and inattention for these kinds of crashes. Alcohol was the leading cause in single vehicle accidents followed by speed and inattention. Inattention was the second leading cause of multi vehicle fatal crashes at intersections after racing. I would consider racing (the #1 cause) to be something people know is dangerous, not something people consider 100% safe. Inattention comes in at #2. So no, I'm not pulling this out of my butt.

Do you have any facts to support your fury toward scofflaw cyclists, or just a vague suspicion that we give you a bad name?

There is plenty of evidence to support my theory, but determining the cause of accidents can be difficult since there are many things that are factors in a collsion and these factors are not always know or reported. For example, the cause of many collisions may be listed as "failure to yeild right of way" when really the problem was that one or more of the drivers was not paying attention. In this study (http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments/nrd-12/809-779/pages/ExecSumm.htm) it was found that a the three major factors in fatal accidents where somebody either failed to yeild or failed to obey at a traffic control devices were alcohol, speeding, and inattention for these kinds of crashes. Alcohol was the leading cause in single vehicle accidents followed by speed and inattention. Inattention was the second leading cause of multi vehicle fatal crashes at intersections after racing. I would consider racing (the #1 cause) to be something people know is dangerous, not something people consider 100% safe. Inattention comes in at #2. So no, I'm not pulling this out of my butt.

Allright - taken into consideration, thanks.

Do you have any facts to support your fury toward scofflaw cyclists, or just a vague suspicion that we give you a bad name.

(For the record, I did not edit that out from your post in my previous reply, but it was you who edited it in afterwards.)

I don't have facts, just a strongly-founded suspicion, based on comments from non-cyclists about cyclists.

Look, break the law if you have to, but don't hide behind some half-assed excuses. Own it, say it as it is, it's breaking the law. Maybe you don't like that law, maybe you think it's unfair, but don't ****ing kid yourself that it doesn't apply to you. It does.

fair enough. the law does indeed apply to me and when i break the law i do so knowingly and intentionally. if i am punished for it i'll know i had it coming. if i feel i'm being safer by doing so then in my mind it's justified, consequences and all.