Professional Cycling For the Fans - Floyd wants Lemonds weenie

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12271.0.html

I wish I were joking.

This case is starting to get a little creepy.

If the essence of what Greg Lemond said is true, not only am I off the Floyd bandwagon, I'm rabidly hoping he goes down.

What's weird is that the hearing is being held about 20 minutes from where I live, and I almost went there today to hear Lemond's testimony.

If the essence of what Greg Lemond said is true, not only am I off the Floyd bandwagon, I'm rabidly hoping he goes down.

What's weird is that the hearing is being held about 20 minutes from where I live, and I almost went there today to hear Lemond's testimony.
saved yourself from having nightmares tonight

Somebody's whacko. I'm not sure who yet though.

LeMond seems to always end up in the thick of things. After a while you have to start asking yourself if he isn't out to get back into the spotlight with some outrageous claim? I mean the story that has been reported doesn't really add up. Floyd's team seems pretty switched on and what LeMond claims happened screams fantasy or uber amateur.

At least it isn't boring!

If the essence of what Greg Lemond said is true, not only am I off the Floyd bandwagon, I'm rabidly hoping he goes down.

Absolutely, well said!

The only thing I can't understand is why would Lemond tell Landis something he considered so private when they were no friends at all. I don't know, I don't like Landis anyways, but Lemond's story sounds a little too far, I don't doubt it happened to him I just don't know what's the relevance here. It's going to be interesting to see the outcome. :)

Absolutely, well said!

The only thing I can't understand is why would Lemond tell Landis something he considered so private when they were no friends at all. I don't know, I don't like Landis anyways, but Lemond's story sounds a little too far, I don't doubt it happened to him I just don't know what's the relevance here. It's going to be interesting to see the outcome. :)


FWIW, I am a retired investigator for the State of CT and have done many investigations of sexual abuse. A common scenario is the victim who has hidden the abuse for years and suffered the emotional trauma silently. This has a terrible effect on his/her life. When the victim finally "divulges" it has the effect of setting them free. Often they come to see that admission of the fact (rather than the denial and hidden secret) has "cleansed" them. Consequently, they want to help other victims find that freedom. So, it does not surprise me that Lemond told Landis. They share a bond very few people do in that they both "won" the TdF. That is an elite club. Lemond, in his later years, may want to save a sport he loves. He may think that the sport's dirty little secret of widespread doping is equivalent to the secret he once hid. So, he told Landis of his personal secret as a way of "helping" him see that the truth "will set you free." The relevance to the case is that Lemond alleges that, during his phone conversation, Landis admitted to doping. He also says he told Landis of his own "secret." Quite frankly, this has the ring of truth to it, IMHO. Why? Because Landis' friend, Geoghegan, then threatened Lemond with public exposure if he testified about the phone conversation. Geoghegan has admitted to this and now faces felony witness tampering charges in CA. Wonder who told Geoghegan about Lemond's admission of his personal trauma? Hmm. Why would Geoghegan threaten him? Maybe, it's because they knew what Lemond was going to say. How? Because Landis knew what he had told Lemond. Remember, according to Landis, he had never met nor spoken to Lemond prior to that phone call. So, they have no history. There is more, I'm sure, but so far, Lemond's story seems more credible.

Obviously Lemond is telling the truth. Landis fired his manager for making the phone call to Lemond, and to top it off the manager admited to having made the threat. How could Landis' manager possibly know about Lemond's **** when he was six years old? Obviously, Landis, who did know, must have told his manager with the idea that this would silence Lemond. This shows quite a lack of integrity on the part of Landis: One, for telling a secret like this to his manager and Two, for not having the courage to admit that his sport is troubled by drugs, lies and threats. Bravo Lemond. Make that four great victories! Three tours and one triumph over mendacity!

I don't trust anybody, not Landis, not Lemond, not Armstrong.

Is Armstrong and Lemond in the middle of some lawsuit? what's that all about? If Lemond knows of doping in cycling, why not just tell all? unless Lemond is involved himself, but in his own conscience, isn't it better to let it out for the long run?

I just ride, maybe that's better for the long run.

Absolutely, well said!

The only thing I can't understand is why would Lemond tell Landis something he considered so private when they were no friends at all. I don't know, I don't like Landis anyways, but Lemond's story sounds a little too far, I don't doubt it happened to him I just don't know what's the relevance here. It's going to be interesting to see the outcome. :)


that's the way lemond is...he has a big mouth.

lemond still wants to be the champ and while he's won fewer TDFs than lance he's on a crusade to prove that unlike lance he was a "clean" rider so in a sense he is still the best.

i probably like lemond a little more since this happened but it still ain't much but i think landis is a lying punk and i'll be glad to see him stripped of his tdf win.

don't get me wrong: i think they all doped...lance, landis and yes lemond and i could not care less.

ed rader

that's the way lemond is...he has a big mouth.

lemond still wants to be the champ and while he's won fewer TDFs than lance he's on a crusade to prove that unlike lance he was a "clean" rider so in a sense he is still the best.

i probably like lemond a little more since this happened but it still ain't much but i think landis is a lying punk and i'll be glad to see him stripped of his tdf win.

don't get me wrong: i think they all doped...lance, landis and yes lemond and i could not care less.

ed rader


Lemond has always been a whiner and a talker. I am not sure he ever doped, however. If he had, his career would have been much better during the early to mid 90's.

Greg Lemond's credibility has always been pretty good, but his behavior has been suspect in regard to Lance and Landis.

Anyone who doubts Lemond's dedication to cycling has been looking in the wrong direction. He seems a little insecure at times and does seem to miss the limelight.

Landis will get what he deserves, and Lance will skate on the doping issues. Lemond will continue to demand changes to doping rules and maybe cycling will become better for the fans in the future. Lance Armstrong is Barry Bonds--- history will not treat him as kindly as his records warrant.

Absolutely, well said!

The only thing I can't understand is why would Lemond tell Landis something he considered so private when they were no friends at all. I don't know, I don't like Landis anyways, but Lemond's story sounds a little too far, I don't doubt it happened to him I just don't know what's the relevance here. It's going to be interesting to see the outcome. :)


Maybe Lemond was talking one cyclist to another or TDF champ to another...I think Lemond seems to be a critic and always looking like he wants the spot light because he truely cares about cycling...after all he does not have anything to gain, he is putting his business on the line when he speaks out.

I'm glad the Lemond critics finally have to shut up on this one. :D

It obvious that the harassing phone call came from Landi's manager, since the phone call log shows this. So, the Lance and Floyd club can't say that Lemond is making up this story.
Second, they fired the manager after they heard of the call logs and police report in court.
Landis has shown himself as a 1st class jerk by writing that dehumanizing post about Greg on this webblog and then removing it news of this story broke out. Problem for him, is that Sports Illustrated archived it and it is in one of their last articles on this story.
Landis wearing a yellow tie the 1st 3 days of testimony, but then dressing in funeral attire (all black, black shirt, black tie) for Lemond's testimony, shows that he and his manager threatened Lemond and told him that he'd be dead if he were to abide by the prosecutor's request for testimony.


The Lemond haters will always be haters, new to the sport and in love with all things Lance and Floyd. They are so prejudiced that if they saw Lance or Floyd do EPO themselves, they would still deny it and say that Lemond was a whiner. No folks, it's winner. Something that Floyd is not.

It obvious that the harassing phone call came from Landi's manager, since the phone call log shows this. So, the Lance and Floyd club can't say that Lemond is making up this story.

And, let's not forget how Geoghegan came to know about Lemond's sexual abuse. It's pretty clear to me that Landis "outed" him and I wouldn't be surprised if he had something to do with the threatening call. I started out being a Lemond fan and a Landis supporter. Landis has lost a lot of credibility with me.

Tour de Fowl. See:
http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10187593

I was reading an article search on Google and I came across information that Landis supposedly is part of some on line forum about cycling. He also aledgedly posted something to affect that "... if the word Floyd so much as comes out of his mouth (LeMond), than the whole world is going to find out something very embarrassing about him.." This is a paraphrase from what I remember reading early this morning.

What forum would this be on? Where can I find it? If this is true, and I remember it was reported on a fairly reliable news source, than it means that Landis not only sent his attack dog manager out to threaten LeMond but also that he had it planned from the beginning. This is very very damning indeed. Someone help me find the posting please.

I was reading an article search on Google and I came across information that Landis supposedly is part of some on line forum about cycling. He also aledgedly posted something to affect that "... if the word Floyd so much as comes out of his mouth (LeMond), than the whole world is going to find out something very embarrassing about him.." This is a paraphrase from what I remember reading early this morning.

What forum would this be on? Where can I find it? If this is true, and I remember it was reported on a fairly reliable news source, than it means that Landis not only sent his attack dog manager out to threaten LeMond but also that he had it planned from the beginning. This is very very damning indeed. Someone help me find the posting please.

Garth, no need to scour the internet: its linked right here in BF in a post on one of the Landis threads. THis should help... somewhat :D

I'm glad the Lemond critics finally have to shut up on this one. :D

It obvious that the harassing phone call came from Landi's manager, since the phone call log shows this. So, the Lance and Floyd club can't say that Lemond is making up this story.
Second, they fired the manager after they heard of the call logs and police report in court.
Landis has shown himself as a 1st class jerk by writing that dehumanizing post about Greg on this webblog and then removing it news of this story broke out. Problem for him, is that Sports Illustrated archived it and it is in one of their last articles on this story.
Landis wearing a yellow tie the 1st 3 days of testimony, but then dressing in funeral attire (all black, black shirt, black tie) for Lemond's testimony, shows that he and his manager threatened Lemond and told him that he'd be dead if he were to abide by the prosecutor's request for testimony.


The Lemond haters will always be haters, new to the sport and in love with all things Lance and Floyd. They are so prejudiced that if they saw Lance or Floyd do EPO themselves, they would still deny it and say that Lemond was a whiner. No folks, it's winner. Something that Floyd is not.

Thats quite a leap you are making.

What we know is that Landis told his manager Greg's secret from the phone call and that the manager called Lemond. That is it. Lemond never mentioned his life being threatened.

It was posted on a blog owned by Landis. It has since been removed, but several news sources including ESPN and Sports Illustrated had archived it before Floyd deleted the message that threatened to bring forth Lemond's secret he told him. This corroborates that Landis was trying to influence Lemond not to attend the for his scheduled testimony. The archived contents of the blog are on page 2 of this article by Sports Illustrated.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/austin_murphy/05/18/landis.lemond/index.html

It was not posted on a blog owned by Landis, it was posted on the Daily Peloton forums.

I'm not trying to defend any comments made by Landis, just get the facts straight.

Thats quite a leap you are making.

What we know is that Landis told his manager Greg's secret from the phone call and that the manager called Lemond. That is it. Lemond never mentioned his life being threatened.

I think it's fair to assume that Landis' wearing his "drama queen" black tie on the day of Lemond's appearance indicates that he had a pretty good idea what Greg was going to testify to. Also, the Landis camp knew that Lemond had filed a complaint against Geoghegan sometime prior to his appearance. So, why didn't the Landis camp fire Geoghegan prior to that day? When you sit down and figure out the timeline of events and scrutinize Landis' response to it all, I think Landis' credibility suffers. I started out being skeptical of Lemond and supportive of Landis. Feeling just the opposite now.

I think it's fair to assume that Landis' wearing his "drama queen" black tie on the day of Lemond's appearance indicates that he had a pretty good idea what Greg was going to testify to. Also, the Landis camp knew that Lemond had filed a complaint against Geoghegan sometime prior to his appearance. So, why didn't the Landis camp fire Geoghegan prior to that day? When you sit down and figure out the timeline of events and scrutinize Landis' response to it all, I think Landis' credibility suffers. I started out being skeptical of Lemond and supportive of Landis. Feeling just the opposite now.


Landis and his team of attorneys and friends are real idiots. One, you don't wear a all black funeral attire, black shirt, black tie, etc. on the day that you are about to get exposed for possibly harassing or intimidating a witness into not testifying, especially not after wearing the same yellow tie and white shirt for 3 days straight. Hello?! What kind of attorneys does Landis have?!?!

Further, the intimidation from Landis in his admitted internet post that that he was going to expose one of Greg's deep secrets if he were to testify. Hello?! Landis attorney team? How do you not tell your client to just shut up before his trial?!

Finally, what kind of idiot (Will Geoghegan) calls a witness the night before a trial, even to say hello. What a moron! Landis and his bafoon team of attorneys are making him look bad in more ways than one.

Apperantly, Floyd thought that he could trust Lemond even though they wern't friends because they were both in the TDF winner's club. Hence the phone call.

What Floyd miscalculated is that he thinks that everyone dopes because now nearly everyone does. So he must have thought that Lemond did also. Also, while Lemond's testimony seemed genuine he could have ulterior motives.

He may not have realized that when Lemond was riding doping was less common and not so sophisticated as it is now. He believed that his words would be held in trust such as Armstrong would.

Floyd has pretty much shown himself to be somewhat incompetent in human affairs. And I think he was doping. But I also think that so were all of the other top GC riders. So in this context he really did win the race on his own merits against a level playing field.

Apperantly, Floyd thought that he could trust Lemond even though they wern't friends because they were both in the TDF winner's club. Hence the phone call.

What Floyd miscalculated is that he thinks that everyone dopes because now nearly everyone does. So he must have thought that Lemond did also. Also, while Lemond's testimony seemed genuine he could have ulterior motives.

He may not have realized that when Lemond was riding doping was less common and not so sophisticated as it is now. He believed that his words would be held in trust such as Armstrong would.

Floyd has pretty much shown himself to be somewhat incompetent in human affairs. And I think he was doping. But I also think that so were all of the other top GC riders. So in this context he really did win the race on his own merits against a level playing field.


yeah i agree: they all dope. at least all the winners and their support riders do. i don't have a problem with the doping because it's so widespread and accepted in the sport it really does level the playing field.

you don't hear the pros complaining much about doping because they all do it to some degree.

the problem i have is how these guys act when they get busted. alex zulle showed class, tyler hamilton is an ass and floyd landis is a punk.

ed rader

yeah i agree: they all dope. at least all the winners and their support riders do. i don't have a problem with the doping because it's so widespread and accepted in the sport it really does level the playing field.

you don't hear the pros complaining much about doping because they all do it to some degree.

the problem i have is how these guys act when they get busted. alex zulle showed class, tyler hamilton is an ass and floyd landis is a punk.

ed rader


EPO usage didn't really become prevalent till the early 90s. Not all pros were doping then, but the ones that were did it well enough to crush the competition. Many people believe the Indurain era really spiked the EPO usage in pro cycling. Willy Voet, a former domestique and the author of the book exposed methods of doping usage and testing clean. I don't think that ALL riders dope like you claim, but that a good number of the top riders now are doping. This is getting worse, not better.

I believe that Greg was clean. After he came back from the hunting accident in 87, he struggled greatly the following sping and into 88. He had signed a new contract with PDM and he left that team to join the smallish Coors Light/ADR team citing that there was pressure from the team to use drugs to get him back to the level where he was at. He refused. Power wattage estimates show a noticable spike in the top athletes during the eraly 90s. We're not talking about a small 2-3% increase, but a profound 25+% increase. Indurain was killing the competition and putting literally over 30 minutes between himself and those outside the top 10, but still in the top 20. And this in only one time time. In 93 or 93, he put 9 minutes between himself and the 2nd rider after one flat time trial.

I don't believe in Floyd. I wanted to, but he has had a strange way of handling his innocence or lack therof. Multiple excuses in the beginning to misrepresentation of the facts, which were pointed out by USADA lawyers in court, to intimidating witnesses. I don't believe that Floyd is any more clean than Armstrong, who coincidentally did test positive for EPO and Actovegin, but got off on some technical issues.

I don't trust anybody, not Landis, not Lemond, not Armstrong.

Is Armstrong and Lemond in the middle of some lawsuit? what's that all about? If Lemond knows of doping in cycling, why not just tell all? unless Lemond is involved himself, but in his own conscience, isn't it better to let it out for the long run?

I just ride, maybe that's better for the long run.

Haven't you been reading the posts above?

that's the way lemond is...he has a big mouth.

lemond still wants to be the champ and while he's won fewer TDFs than lance he's on a crusade to prove that unlike lance he was a "clean" rider so in a sense he is still the best.

i probably like lemond a little more since this happened but it still ain't much but i think landis is a lying punk and i'll be glad to see him stripped of his tdf win.

don't get me wrong: i think they all doped...lance, landis and yes lemond and i could not care less.

ed rader

Lemond didn't dope. He retired before EPO got known to American cyclists. Before that, cycling was a "poor" discipline. Not much money involved (ask King Eddy Merckx how much he made DIRECTLY from cycling). The stuff they took back then (amphetamines, pot belge, etc) wouldn't make a huge diffference apart for one day races. Nothing to do with the effects of EPO (check Liege-bastogne-Liege 1994:

1. Evgueni Berzin (Gewiss)

Even better, Fleche wallonne 1994:

1. Argentin (Gewiss)
2. Furlan (Gewiss)
3. Berzin (Gewiss)
Gewiss riders were all under treatment with Dr Michele Ferrari (Mr "orange juice" : "...EPO is not more dangerous than drinking orange juice. Drinking too much orange juice can be dangerous too..."

Armstrong took part at that race and was completely outrun by Italians. Following year he decided to start working with Ferrari to improve results.

Lemond has always been a whiner and a talker. I am not sure he ever doped, however. If he had, his career would have been much better during the early to mid 90's.

Greg Lemond's credibility has always been pretty good, but his behavior has been suspect in regard to Lance and Landis.

Anyone who doubts Lemond's dedication to cycling has been looking in the wrong direction. He seems a little insecure at times and does seem to miss the limelight.

Landis will get what he deserves, and Lance will skate on the doping issues. Lemond will continue to demand changes to doping rules and maybe cycling will become better for the fans in the future. Lance Armstrong is Barry Bonds--- history will not treat him as kindly as his records warrant.

+1

I don't know if Floyd was directly involved in the phone call, but I find the "I was in the same room but didn't know what was going on" to be quite fishy. If, however, I accept that he's telling the truth, I do think its fair to assume that Floyd would have shared Lemond's phone call with his closest friends and advisors. Wouldn't you?

Person X just told me to confess, saying that after they revealed being sexually abused it was all better.

I personally would share this with my friends. I don't fault him for discussing the call. I think there is enough stink in the air about the discussion to think he was involved in the call itself though, and at that point there is no defending the action.

That said...I still think Lemond is flaky.

Well, Floyd's manager certainly took drunk dialling to a new level, LOL. What a prick. Although I call bull**** on his "rehab". He was sober and his going to "rehab" is just a P.R. stunt like that dude from Grey's Anatomy. Whatever. That fact that Floyd employed such monumental weasel says a lot about him.

This sport is so freaking dirty and the people involved in it are truly vile and dishonest. I think cycling has surpassed boxing for the sheer number of scumbags that populate its ranks.


He also aledgedly posted something to affect that "... if the word Floyd so much as comes out of his mouth (LeMond), than the whole world is going to find out something very embarrassing about him.." .If this is true, he is a total mofo. If I ever see him, I will kick him in the balls, for reals. Scum!

Don't know what to think of Lemond. I respect that he's willing to tell the truth about cycling but I'm not sure I like people who snitch about personal conversations. Its a tough call. As for his doping, I suspect he probably tried EPO before it was officially banned but in general I think he's an honest guy who competed as fairly as he could in a sport long gone dirty. Anyway, its sad that something so personal about his life has been revealed this way.

Don't know what to think of Lemond. I respect that he's willing to tell the truth about cycling but I'm not sure I like people who snitch about personal conversations. Its a tough call. As for his doping, I suspect he probably tried EPO before it was officially banned but in general I think he's an honest guy who competed as fairly as he could in a sport long gone dirty. Anyway, its sad that something so personal about his life has been revealed this way.

Already stated earlier, and on other posts. Lemond left cycling before EPO got known around his team. If he had used EPO, his results would have been much better in the early 90's.

Already stated earlier, and on other posts. Lemond left cycling before EPO got known around his team. If he had used EPO, his results would have been much better in the early 90's.
I don't think your timeline is right. EPO was being widely used in cycling towards the later stages of his career. It was a few years before it was officially banned. Just because he had poor performances does not mean he didn't try it. I could swear someone asked him point blank whether he had used epo and he refused to provide a direct answer (although I will gladly [and happily] retract this if someone finds a quote from him denying having used it). It wouldn't surprise me if he tried it nor would I condemn him for it. I don't know if he doped. This is just speculation. I would never presume to know anything for a fact without evidence.

Already stated earlier, and on other posts. Lemond left cycling before EPO got known around his team. If he had used EPO, his results would have been much better in the early 90's.

so if what you are saying is true EPO is the only form of doping? i'd ask floyd landis about that one. fwiw i think lemond would at least consider eating a dog turd if it would help him win a race :eek: .

ed rader

I really don't think that Lemond is as honest as he would like everyone to believe because if he was he would have to admit that most of the pro contenders don't have a choice. They dope or they don't have much of a chance to win. They are in a catch 22.

Lemond seems to suffer from an excess of black-and-white thinking and a need to elevate himself too much to be a non biased witness. I am not implying that Lemond doped. In fact I don't think that he did for the most part. But I would be willing to bet that he may have tried something a time or two.

I am not trying to defend one side or the other, but would like to know if one is considered a doper or to have doped if it wasn't an officially banned or recognized drug at the time they used?? It seems that lots are coming out and stating that they used/tried something or other and then following up with, but I never went against or broke the rules as this was not considered illegal or banned at the time I tried/used it and I immediately stopped when it was added to the banned list. I believe that most are using some form of performance enhancing drugs in this day and age and just getting by due to loop holes. Heck they released a statement that something like 43 riders were riding last years TDF with drug waivers from doctors, so min essence they were riding dirty but covered by a physicians waiver. Doesn't seem right or fair to me, so I agree by saying that they should allow whatever to happen. Maybe the answer should be like bobybuilding, they have 2 classes the open class and the natural class ( the one that allows no drugs/ performance enhancers). This could solve the problem, as those that would cheat in the natural class would find that the purses/stakes aren't as profitable as it is tom just go all out and compete in the open class. Just food for thought.

One other thing to consider in regards to Lemond. His TDF time trial stage record still stands as the fastest TDF TT. Unless that course was unusually downhill compared to other TT's since, I find it a little fishy that it hasn't been broken in twenty years of drug assisted TT'ing.

If Lemond was in fact clean this is an amazing record. But it seems a little far fetched.

If Lemond is using something so delicate and painful like sexual child abuse just to cause publicity or to ruin somebody's career then he's the one that should be ashamed of himself. But if it's really true that Landis blackmailed Lemond then, Landis is a SOB. What a mess, I hope the truth really comes out!

But if it's really true that Landis blackmailed Lemond then, Landis is a SOB. What a mess, I hope the truth really comes out!

What are you talking about? Everything has already been admitted by Landis' friend/manager. He even apologised.

One other thing to consider in regards to Lemond. His TDF time trial stage record still stands as the fastest TDF TT. Unless that course was unusually downhill compared to other TT's since, I find it a little fishy that it hasn't been broken in twenty years of drug assisted TT'ing.

If Lemond was in fact clean this is an amazing record. But it seems a little far fetched.

it was in fact one of the shortest TT of the last 40 years (under 25 kms). And the fastest TDF TT (excluding short prologues) is Zabriskie's (because 2005 19km prologue similar to the last 24kms long TT in Paris.

it was in fact one of the shortest TT of the last 40 years (under 25 kms). And the fastest TDF TT (excluding short prologues) is Zabriskie's (because 2005 19km prologue similar to the last 24kms long TT in Paris.

Interesting, I got my records off one of the TDF sites. Perhaps it is not exactly accurate. In any case, do they not include the prologues with the other TT records since they are so short?

I am not exactly following your logic. If Zabriskie's TT is the fastest TDF TT average speed is it listed as TDF record on other sites?

EDIT: After doing a little research I found that Zabriskie's 2005 TDF TT was in fact faster than Lemonds record. Although a bit shorter at 19km. But I guess the course is similar. I guess a lot of old record listings are not up to date.

Interesting, I got my records off one of the TDF sites. Perhaps it is not exactly accurate. In any case, do they not include the prologues with the other TT records since they are so short?

I am not exactly following your logic. If Zabriskie's TT is the fastest TDF TT average speed is it listed as TDF record on other sites?

EDIT: After doing a little research I found that Zabriskie's 2005 TDF TT was in fact faster than Lemonds record. Although a bit shorter at 19km. But I guess the course is similar. I guess a lot of old record listings are not up to date.

Well, explanation is that Zabriskie's record was made on an official "prologue", which is not considered in the records as a TT. But TDF had never seen such a long prologue (usually not longer than 5 kms).

What are you talking about? Everything has already been admitted by Landis' friend/manager. He even apologised.

Oh wow, thanks for putting me up to date. I guess I missed that news.
So Landis apologized?

IMHO Landis is a freak! What Lemond went through when he was six years old was extremely painful and sad, and what Landis did was very low and no apology would make him look better in front of my eyes because I don't think he means it. He's just sorry he was caught AGAIN doing illegal things.

I hope one day Landis can find real peace with himself.

FWIW, I am a retired investigator for the State of CT and have done many investigations of sexual abuse. A common scenario is the victim who has hidden the abuse for years and suffered the emotional trauma silently. This has a terrible effect on his/her life. When the victim finally "divulges" it has the effect of setting them free. Often they come to see that admission of the fact (rather than the denial and hidden secret) has "cleansed" them. Consequently, they want to help other victims find that freedom. So, it does not surprise me that Lemond told Landis. They share a bond very few people do in that they both "won" the TdF. That is an elite club. Lemond, in his later years, may want to save a sport he loves. He may think that the sport's dirty little secret of widespread doping is equivalent to the secret he once hid. So, he told Landis of his personal secret as a way of "helping" him see that the truth "will set you free." The relevance to the case is that Lemond alleges that, during his phone conversation, Landis admitted to doping. He also says he told Landis of his own "secret." Quite frankly, this has the ring of truth to it, IMHO. Why? Because Landis' friend, Geoghegan, then threatened Lemond with public exposure if he testified about the phone conversation. Geoghegan has admitted to this and now faces felony witness tampering charges in CA. Wonder who told Geoghegan about Lemond's admission of his personal trauma? Hmm. Why would Geoghegan threaten him? Maybe, it's because they knew what Lemond was going to say. How? Because Landis knew what he had told Lemond. Remember, according to Landis, he had never met nor spoken to Lemond prior to that phone call. So, they have no history. There is more, I'm sure, but so far, Lemond's story seems more credible.

I have to bow to you!
You must have helped a lot of children through out your career. Thanks for that.
I admire the way you analize the Lemond-Landis case and agree with you that Lemond's story seems indeed credible!

You have over looked one thing. Landis did not tell Lemond he was doping. That is conjecture by Lemond. Landis said "what good would that do" when Lemond admonished Landis to come clean if he was doping. That statement can be interpreted in more ways than one way that everyone seems to be interpreting it.

I still think Lemond is scum. The abuse story is believable though because even though most people would not want this devulged in public Lemond did because he thought Landis camp would use this against him. So he let it out first.

Still, Lemond is being self serving. This is not a criminal trial. Nor should it be a character assassination. Landis may have took Lemond into his confedence. But the trial should be on the merits of the science. If that is not strong enough to convict Landis of doping then the USADA is entirely out of line in bringing in this type of witness.

Lemond simply is not neutral enough to be a witness. And because he was a 3 time TDF winner everyone will believe him no matter what he tells.

The bottom line is that the best expert at the trial who seems to be rather neutral has said that all of LNDD labs mass spectrometry tests results are unreliable. They didn't have the machines set up right and they weren't using them correctly.

Furthermore, the positive results are very weak by the standards of every other lab in the international community.

All of the other witnesses think thier beliefs are somehow more valid than this expert. And most other lab experts are not as qualified as this one regarding the testing procedures.

The bourden of proof is on the USADA and WADA to show through thier testing procedures that Landis doped. Otherwise they can pull together any kind of witnesses who will say anything about another competitor. And violate any athletes due process just because they think he's doping.