Folding Bikes - The Unlimited Budget, perfect folder for you thread

If you could have all the bike manufacturers seating around a long table with bike designers and everything else to design a perfect folder for you, what would it be?

Here is mine:

1- 16" wheels, similar to a Brompton, without the little chain tensioner (more like the Tikit setup);

2- Rohloff 14 gears;

3-fit into internationally accepted luggage with just minor adjustments (removing the seat, front wheel, etc...)

4-Performance oriented. Capable of doing a century without being considered a hero;

5- once folded, easy to transport.

I believe the closest thing to this is currently the Brompton, isn't it?

Well, since the sky's the limit:

1. Frame design that allows for variable wheel sizes (as wide a range as possible) so you can swap in smaller/larger wheels to achieve the desired folded size/weight for the day. Of course, when you swap in the 26" wheels it should ride as well as a 26" wheeled bike, otherwise what's the point?

2. More rugged construction so you don't have to use a suitcase for airline travel, just a bag. Most 20" folders meet airline size requirements when folded, the problem is that you need to put them in a case to protect them. Make the bikes from titanium or unobtanium or something so that the folded bike is as strong as any suitcase. Obviously this would need to include more than just the frame, as current designs have many other fragile parts.

3. Make the bikes much lighter. I realize that UCI weight limits discourage R&D from pushing component weights lower than what they are, but this is my damn wish list. They put a man on the moon; Don't tell me they can't make a 5 pound Brompton.


Give me all of the above without compromising much in terms of ride quality, gearing, etc (basically don't make it a worse bike than currently available folders) and I'd pay the price of a new car.

1- 16" wheels, similar to a Brompton, without the little chain tensioner (more like the Tikit setup);
4-Performance oriented. Capable of doing a century without being considered a hero;

I think riding a century on a 16" wheeled bike will always make you a hero from most people's point of view... :)

1. 16" wheels
2. A Moulton F-type frame that actually folds with accompanying rear and front suspension.
3. 23mm Race tyres.
4. Drop bars
5. Ti Frame
6. One of those awesome Brompton front bag mounts!

If you could have all the bike manufacturers seating around a long table with bike designers and everything else to design a perfect folder for you, what would it be?

Here is mine:

1- 16" wheels, similar to a Brompton, without the little chain tensioner (more like the Tikit setup);

2- Rohloff 14 gears;

3-fit into internationally accepted luggage with just minor adjustments (removing the seat, front wheel, etc...)

4-Performance oriented. Capable of doing a century without being considered a hero;

5- once folded, easy to transport.

I believe the closest thing to this is currently the Brompton, isn't it?


Add:

6- Capable of touring with a reasonable (for this size bike) load

7- a FD so you can have a granny gear for big hills (is this possible / desireable with a Rolhoff?)

8- rolls when folded and stays folded (some type of lock / latch)

9- FENDERS

7- a FD so you can have a granny gear for big hills (is this possible / desireable with a Rolhoff?)Possible - yes, desireable - no, necessary - no

The Rohloff has a gear range of 526% compared to an average 27-speed MTB gear range of 519%. So the granny gear is built into the Speedhub.

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/gear_range_comparison/index.html

Right now, from the well known folding bike universe, which bikes accept a Rohloff without any major Mods?

A Downtube VIII NS with a spare wheel for fixie/ss use or a mini set up the same way.Or alternatively a hon Solo with a spare 8 speed wheel(Internal Hub).

Bikes which might accept a 14 ratio Rohloff hub,hmmm.Possibly a downtube VIII or a hon solo or another Dt model with an internal hub.:D

Titanium R20 type frame, full centaur groupset, carbon fork, 451 wheels, Thomson seatpost, integrated handlebar - stem, MKS detachable pedals, etc, etc.

There are at least two reasons why I have more than one folder. One is self-indulgence, the other is that I haven't found a single model that is perfect for everything I want to do on a bike. There are times when my Curve is just right, others when the only folder I'd use is my BF Crusoe. For one folder to be perfect, I'd have to be equally comfortable using it to go grocery shopping, or light touring, or riding in a century.

If I do imagine a single perfect folder, it's closer to a Bike Friday than a Brompton, but with an easier and smaller fold than the classic Bike Friday Pocket models. The tikit could be a step in that direction, although the current model may not be quite there. Road bike geometry, reasonably wide gearing range (say 30-100 gear inches or better). I'm not a gear snob; I'll take an internal gear system if I'm convinced that it will give me adequate performance over a reasonable range, otherwise front and rear derailleurs, or a wide range 9 speed rear derailleur only system. Haven't tried the really high end internal gearing systems, so I can't be more definite than that.

Not too heavy, let's say 24 pounds max, but sturdy enough to carry heavy loads on occasion. If price were truly not a factor, titanium might be a good way to get that, otherwise chromoly.

Unsuspended, except for the possibility of adding a springy saddle and cushy tires. I've found I get along fine without suspension, so it seems like an unnecessary complication.

Fold, small, easy, and quick enough to bring inside almost anywhere. It doesn't have to be absolutely the quickest, smallest, and easiest, just good enough that folding doesn't seem like a hassle. A design that lets it fold reasonably small even with drop bars.

Sufficient clearance and good mounting points for fenders. Easy mounting of front and/or rear carriers. Maybe some quick release system for carriers, so you can take them off without much trouble when they aren't needed.

I could see this working with either of the two 16 inch sizes or the two 20 inch sizes, but I'm thinking 406 might be best. Not a scientific opinion.

"A Downtube VIII NS with a spare wheel for fixie/ss"

Harris sells a self branded flip flop hub that has freewheel + fixed on both sides. $40.

I think a belt or shaft drive would be nice for traveling and general use bike.

How about a folder can be folded so small, it can be brought as hand luguage on an aircraft.

I think the weight is a big thing also.

DrK

Right now, from the well known folding bike universe, which bikes accept a Rohloff without any major Mods?

Birdy

How about a folder can be folded so small, it can be brought as hand luguage on an aircraft.

I think the weight is a big thing also.

DrK


That would be really, really nice...

Yes, Birdys (Birdies?) ship stock with Rolhoff.

But my ideal bike would be as follows:

Birdy monocoque frame. (Yes, you can *comfortably* do a century on 355 wheels. More comfortably than on a touring bike!)
Zipp cranks (650gm, including BB)
SRAM X9 derailleur/shifter/freewheel
Chris King classic hubs and headset
Alex DV16 355 rims or Velocity Aeroheat 349 wheels. (The Birdy can, as a stock bike, accept 349, 355, or 369 Moulton wheels. Does anyone have better rim recommendations?)
Help me with the brakes. The stock Avid brakes?
Seat: Terry Fly or Velo Plush. Don't like seats that mush the soft parts.

How much would it weigh? With 349 wheels and 40gm tubes, probably 7.5Kgs. Lighter and more comfortable than a Bike Friday. Maybe stiffer, too.

There: a folder so small it can be quickly packed in a 29" suitcase, is comfortable on 200 mile tours, can keep up with the roadies, has suspension but not energy absorbing suspension, folds in under 10s, is smaller than any other folder but the Brompton (and those 305 folders), is light enough to carry for long distances, and is small enough to fit under the table in a crowded resturaunt when folded. The cost? Yikes! I would guess over 2 grand even if everything was bought at the lowest possible prices.

If someone could help me get this bike lighter with cost-effective components (e.g., rims, cranks, etc.) please let me know. I just might partially implement this one day when the savings accrue. For instance, I think FSA might make similarly light cranks when paired with a light ISIS BB. Help appreciated!

How about a folder can be folded so small, it can be brought as hand luguage on an aircraft.

I think the weight is a big thing also.

DrK
That would be the a-bike.....if you think you'll get a bike like that with 16" wheels then you got another thing coming (even a 16" wheeled unicycle is probably too big for a carry on).

I would say...

Something that rode like my Friday Pocket Rocket Pro, but folded something like a Brompton. Extra special bonus: you could buy one for less than a grand.

A real bike that could travel as carry-on luggage would be terrific. But I don't think it can be done. The under $1k Friday/Brompton is as much of a fantasy, but possible.

Help me with the brakes. The stock Avid brakes?


Magura is a nice option.

Perhaps carry-on luggage is a thing of the past anyway... unless you can fit your folding bike in a transparent ziplock bag.

One of the people at Gaerlan made a bike that could be brought on as a carry on.It was never marketed because he did not think it had commercial potential.I beleive it had 16 inch wheels and he rode it around NYC .He actually did fly with it .

One of the people at Gaerlan made a bike that could be brought on as a carry on.It was never marketed because he did not think it had commercial potential.I beleive it had 16 inch wheels and he rode it around NYC .He actually did fly with it .
It only fit into a carry on legal suitcase without the wheels:
http://www.gaerlan.com/others3/ny/ny.htm

Even though I do not have a folder I'll say what my dream bike it. Start with a Dahon Smooth hound (full size bike with 20 inch wheels), Make the top tube more sloping, make it fit me with a 120 degree rise stem that is 140 mm long, add the Ritchey Breakaway system and since price is not object, make it carbon lugged with titanium. OR... teach me how to weld and I can settle on steel or if price is still no object, titianium. Teach me how to weld and make carbon tubes and I'm back to the carbon and titanium.
One built up like a speed machine and one made up for touring.
Scott

Why hasn't someone come up with the idea of a folding bike that can be folded into the shape of a wheel chair.....think of no hassles on airlines and the sympathy you would get, just don't fold it back into a bike until you're out of sight.

How about a folder can be folded so small, it can be brought as hand luguage on an aircraft.

I think the weight is a big thing also.

DrK
This award winning design from the seventies would meet both of those requirements. To my knowledge, it's never been built and probably wouldn't be comfortable for rides of more than a few miles, but I think the concept is really intriguing. Brompton and Merc are probably the only current production bikes that come close.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/ExtraFoldable2sm.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/ExtraFoldable3sm.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/ExtraFoldable1sm.jpg

This award winning design from the seventies would meet both of those requirements. To my knowledge, it's never been built and probably wouldn't be comfortable for rides of more than a few miles, but I think the concept is really intriguing. Brompton and Merc are probably the only current production bikes that come close.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/ExtraFoldable2sm.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/ExtraFoldable3sm.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/ExtraFoldable1sm.jpg

Not long ago, there was a thread for a suitcase that unfolded in the form of a bicycle. I can't remember what it was called...

Okay, I'll bite!

It should go without saying that the bike is reliable; so I won't specify brakes that work, wheels that turn, &c.

Requirements for the bike:
-Long wheelbase for stability.
-Option of various hand positions on the bars.
-Frame geometry that allows the bike to be ridden hands-free with complete confidence (i.e. long enough to adjust helmet, take off gloves, drink some water, &c).
-Minimum 300% spread in gear ratios.
-Maximum weight 25 lbs, though of course lighter is always better.
-Good luggage carrying options.
-Option of good fenders.
-Option of hub dynamo and reliable lights.
-Brake cables, shift cables, and head/tail light wires run inside frame/fenders/etc for maximum protection.
-Frame and fenders should be covered with reflective paint or other reflective coating (i.e. reflective tape).
-Wheel size should allow maximum flexibility in tires.
-Frame should be large enough that seatpost and stem need not be ridiculously long.
-Chain and chainrings should be sufficiently encased so pant cuffs or skirts are not endangered.
-Use of proprietary parts should be kept to an absolute minimum to allow user to customize as needed.
-Suspension; no need to go overboard, the suspension on my Moulton Stowaway is fine.

Requirements for the fold:
-Folded shape should be as thin as possible, and as narrow as possible; length is not so important.
-Fold should be versatile; changing the handlebar, pedals, or seat, for example, should not ruin the fold.
-Folded bike should stay folded.
-Folded shape should allow bike to be moved around with one hand with little effort.
-Folded bike should have good handles in appropriate places so it can be lifted easily; that is, there should be someplace you can put your hands and lift the thing without having to worry about skinning your -knuckles if the wheels start turning, or getting grease on your hands from the chain, etc.
-Luggage should not interfere with fold; ideally a biggish bag or briefcase would mount behind the seat on a Q/R (a similar bag could mount to the front).

Partial solutions:
-The folded Strida is a near perfect example of what the folded bike should be. This fold is enabled by cantilevered wheels front and back, though there may be other solutions.
-16" wheels are big enough --I speak from experience, having ridden Raleigh RSW-16, Strida, Moulton, Kent cheapie, and Downtube Mini.
-Internally geared hubs are probably the way to go; Sturmey-Archer 8-speed hub is excellent; I'm sure the alternates are fine too.
-Headlight and taillight should probably be LED for efficiency and longevity.

That's the basics! If anyone knows where I can buy said bike, please let me know....

If anyone knows where I can buy said bike, please let me know....

That was my idea, to have an idea of components and configs, so we (I) could start with a current model and with time and money allowing, work my way to an efficient yet fully portable traveling bike.

Great thread in my opinion!