Fifty Plus (50+) - I guess I have to start dialing in...or do I?

Well, with about 170 miles on the new bike, I think I might have to start dialing it in a bit. Then again, perhaps not. I ask for your input:

I'm getting some lower back pain, in the same area I've had lower back pain before, but only when I'm on the bike. (My previous back pain was not bike related whatsoever.) The pain isn't severe by any means, more of an ache. It ached throughout my 15 miler today, and then, at about mile 13, it stopped. Go figure. It also doen't bother me at all once I've put the bike away.

I'm getting some mild discomfort on the saddle, but a quick stand for a few yards seems to do the trick here.

I get a bit of tingling in each foot (independently) but it only lasts for a mile or two, and then goes away.

A bit of tingling for the boys, as well.

All of these things seem to come and go, but then again, I wasn't getting them on the Cypress after I got used to that bike and tweaked everything.

Oh -- and more of the palm pain, which also seems to evaporate if I change hand positions. Flares up when I ride the hoods, stops when I give them a shake and ride the top like a flat bar for a while.

So...do I need to dial in or is it more of a matter of just getting used to the new bike? And, if I should start dialing, what's the correct order of things to do so (or is there no correct order)?

I can adjust my seat height, my saddle fore and aft, and my handlebars in terms of their paralellism to the ground.

Both the salesperson at the LBS and I thought we had it pretty darn close when I left the store, and he was reluctant to tweak much more until I came back in and put clipless pedals on the bike (which may not happen right away).

Suggestions?

Get rid of that loser bike is all that comes to mind right now. But if it was mine I'd try moving the seat a teensy bit forward, that helped me with hand AND back pain. But of course I'm not riding a conventional road bike and that might be the completely wrong move for you. On the other hand.... it is an easy try.

Get rid of that loser bike is all that comes to mind right now.
I considered that.... NOT! :)

Gary,
Hate to see a fellow 50+ Forum member suffer. I will actually pay for you to ship the Roubaix to me in No. Cal in exchange for a decrease in your symptoms ;) Seriously, I know you have been putting on more miles lately -- think that may have something to do with it?

welcome to the world of road biking.

when you bend over more, your hands support more weight. your rear and "boys" are in a different position. changes can create discomfort.

however, this does not mean the bike can't eventually be comfortable. a reputable LBS could check out the fit for a nominal fee and recommend changes. if you purchase the alterations there, you may even get a better break on the charge for checking out the fit.

Get ready for a long process. You pretty well covered the list of things that can be fiddled with. Start fiddlin'. But be sure to change just one thing at a time, try it, decide if it helped or hurt. If it helped, leave that and try a different part. If it hurt, either put it like it was or move it the other way. You may find that after you get your seat dialed in and then change your handlebar tilt, the seat is wrong again. After about 30,000,000 combinations, you'll either have it all dialed in or go nuts and start buying replacement parts - or both. But don't distress, it's not as much fun as it sounds like. :)

It took me months to dial in some of my bikes.
I,m guessing,(with regard to your back pain) you need to raise the bars up a bit.Do they use spacers on the stem for that model,Ruby-Boy?
As for size,(we both have that Mel Gibson build right?),the Specialized Indie saddle is the most comfortable on 2hr.ride for our age and weight.Found it on sale for $29.This may be just the ticket for "your boys".I,ve noticed a relationship between seat styles and a person,s weight.
Looks like a nice weekend in Ohio coming up,hope its the same for you.

Gary, that's what I've been doing sense I got my Jamis.I took it to a fitter, and I think he screwed me up, more than I was already. The good thing, or maybe bad, you don't have the clipless to screw around with yet. The first thing I started with was the saddle adjustment and that opened another door to do something else. I read a lot about fit, and how to adjust by small moves, and I mean small. I was ready to go to another fitter and decided against it, because I'll have to make adjustments down the road, so I may as well learn how to do it myself. Everytime I go into there shop they ask if I'm ready yet, and I say maybe next week.I wore out the velcro on one wedge bag I had it off so many times making adjustments. Anyhow after a truck load of beer and whiskey, I think I'm pretty close, at least the way I'm standing it looks that way. I did lose a lot of sleep thinking about ways to do things and the results of the things after I did them. Anyhow, after all that time working on the fit, I don't think a bike shop could help me much more. From what I read, it will be something or another to play around later as well. One morning I jumped out of bed and I got in a crouched down position like a downhill skier and told myself, this is what I need. I would still like to get more weight off my hands, but I like the way it feels now, so I'll play with that later, ha ha So have fun and good luck with Ruby, you know your in love.

good luck with Ruby, you know your in love.
Now I'm blushing.

DG - Save some time, money, and frustration and buy your boys a Brooks saddle. You've already found the solution to numb hands - change your grip position. A good pair of gloves (ironman) also helps. As you ride more your core will get stronger and you'll be able to take some of the weight off the bars. If you can adjust the handlebars upwards by flipping the stem - try that.

This might be a bit premature, maybe you will come to be comfortable on your French bicycle (sounds French, anyway) but can you spell R-E-C-U-M-B-E-N-T?

I think I might have to start dialing it in a bit. Then again, perhaps not.

Golly, Digital, I never thought of that. I never considered that there might be some people who don't constantly fiddle with their bikes.

Gary, that's what I've been doing sense I got my Jamis.I took it to a fitter, and I think he screwed me up, more than I was already. The good thing, or maybe bad, you don't have the clipless to screw around with yet. The first thing I started with was the saddle adjustment and that opened another door to do something else. I read a lot about fit, and how to adjust by small moves, and I mean small. I was ready to go to another fitter and decided against it, because I'll have to make adjustments down the road, so I may as well learn how to do it myself. Everytime I go into there shop they ask if I'm ready yet, and I say maybe next week.I wore out the velcro on one wedge bag I had it off so many times making adjustments. Anyhow after a truck load of beer and whiskey, I think I'm pretty close, at least the way I'm standing it looks that way. I did lose a lot of sleep thinking about ways to do things and the results of the things after I did them. Anyhow, after all that time working on the fit, I don't think a bike shop could help me much more. From what I read, it will be something or another to play around later as well. One morning I jumped out of bed and I got in a crouched down position like a downhill skier and told myself, this is what I need. I would still like to get more weight off my hands, but I like the way it feels now, so I'll play with that later, ha ha So have fun and good luck with Ruby, you know your in love.

I really don't drink, but sometimes, I think I should.

Wow, since you are having all those physical problems clearly being caused by your new bike, I can only say that the Roubaix was a bad choice. I have had none of these problems with my Buenos Aires, which must mean it is a far better bike.;)

Seriously DG, I think card and BluesDawg have it right. Fiddle and fuss and make it right and you will be, as they say, good to go. My lbs says that the issue with sore/numb hands can be cured by doing lots of crunches and strengthening trunk/stomach muscles so that one doesn't support all of one's upper corpulence with one's hands, but rather uses those six-pack abs take the pressure off your hands.:p

Wow, since you are having all those physical problems clearly being caused by your new bike, I can only say that the Roubaix was a bad choice. I have had none of these problems with my Buenos Aires, which must mean it is a far better bike.;)

Seriously DG, I think card and BluesDawg have it right. Fiddle and fuss and make it right and you will be, as they say, good to go. My lbs says that the issue with sore/numb hands can be cured by doing lots of crunches and strengthening trunk/stomach muscles so that one doesn't support all of one's upper corpulence with one's hands, but rather uses those six-pack abs take the pressure off your hands.:p


That answered my question, thanks

Just as most of them say I agree, it must be the bike. Maybe you should trade it off. I have a nice steel Sirrus I might consider trading if you throw in a pair of bibs or something. Just kidding, you were right, it is time to start making small adjustments. I had 4 or 5 seats on my Lemond before I got one I liked and then it still wasn't quite right and one day I moved it about 1/4" and that was it. I marked the rails with a majic marker so I would never lose it. I also agree that you should not make too many moves at once. Get the seat right up and down, then front and back, then handlebar height, then roll them a little one way or the other and you will get it. If none of this works see my first suggestion.

My lbs says that the issue with sore/numb hands can be cured by doing lots of crunches and strengthening trunk/stomach muscles so that one doesn't support all of one's upper corpulence with one's hands, but rather uses those six-pack abs take the pressure off your hands.:p

This is about 90% of my problem with hand pain. No doubt about it.

But I have no plans as yet to address it in a serious way. Especially now that I've adjusted my bike to nearly eliminate my hand pain - at the expense of performance.

This might be a bit premature, maybe you will come to be comfortable on your French bicycle (sounds French, anyway) but can you spell R-E-C-U-M-B-E-N-T?

OK, who had #11 in the "how long will it take for some bent geek to rise to the bait?" pool?
:D

I don't see how you can dial in a bike unless you go clipless. Your position on the saddle depends on the position of your feet on the pedals.
IF you've checked that saddle and cleat position are correct and the back pain persists, it's most likely lack of core strength. Don't forget to do those sit-ups!

I don't see how you can dial in a bike unless you go clipless.

It never stopped Eddy Merckx.

Get ready for a long process. You pretty well covered the list of things that can be fiddled with. Start fiddlin'. But be sure to change just one thing at a time, try it, decide if it helped or hurt. If it helped, leave that and try a different part. If it hurt, either put it like it was or move it the other way. You may find that after you get your seat dialed in and then change your handlebar tilt, the seat is wrong again. After about 30,000,000 combinations, you'll either have it all dialed in or go nuts and start buying replacement parts - or both. But don't distress, it's not as much fun as it sounds like. :)

+1, just want to add to tweak in baby steps...1/4 - 1/2" tops. Also, the tweaks are not limited to the bike...your clothing and gear has an effect. For example, I found a long time ago that the usual thick padded gloves bother me and make my hands go numb, I do better with little or no padding. One some shoes I've had to add shims to the cleat because the tread of the shoe was being compressed against the platform portion of some of my pedals...or that some of my most comfy 'walkable' shoes did not have stiff enough soles for platformless spd pedals. Some short/chamois combos are better than others - again, for me less padding is best.

Also keep in mind that if you don't move around a little, you will experience some discomfort on longer rides. Change hand positions, get out of and move around on the saddle, etc. Looser shoes or sandals let you flex your piggies some when they get to tingling. Finally, spinning is easier on your feet than mashing.

Edit - I see you ain't gone clipless. I hope you are at least using power grips or cages/toeclips. It will help you spin rather than mash and increase your pedalling efficiency. If you are using some kind of binder, pressure and fit might need tweaking there if your feet are going numb. Are you using stiff soled shoes or sneakers?

OK, who had #11 in the "how long will it take for some bent geek to rise to the bait?" pool?
:D
OK. I want half the winnings.

Definitely try moving the saddle forward, especially for the back pain. I experimented with moving my saddle back as part of my (seemingly) never-ending effort to get rid of 10 mile numb fingers syndrome and very quickly started to get lower back pain (my knees didn't much like it either), which, like yours, would go away if I got up off the saddle and moved back and forth a bit. Moved the saddle forward again (moving it back didn't help the hands anyway) and the back pain disappeared. Very slight upward tilt on my saddle (nose about 1 cm higher than rear) keeps the boys happy. Strangely enough (or so it seems to me), saddles with more padding are actually less comfortable--they tend to produce more inner thigh chafing for me. I've done a lot of experimenting to address the finger issue. Got the Aztec gel padding for bars, which helped some, but really isn't any more effective than a double layer of bar tape in the drops, which is where I spend 90+ percent of my riding time. Also tried several different length and rise stems and found that stem length made more difference than bar height for me. Bar angle is also fairly critical--straight wrists and bent elbows are essential. Just ordered a carbon fork--I'm hoping that will be the magic bullet that softens the ride of my all aluminum Klein just enough to keep the fingers happy.

DG, your Roubaix is much like my 06 Sequioa Elite in terms of geometry - just fancier. Scoot the saddle forward a tad and see about getting the bars higher and back toward you. Rotate the bars so the ramps are level with the ground, and at or slightly above the saddle. Never mind the innertube wrap on the drops. That's there because I need to get a set of Nitto B115's or Noodles. They have a 5" drop that is just right for a bad lower back.

My Sequoia came with a 130mm stem that was nearly flat, and was killing me. The one in the pic is a 90mm at 16degrees. Mo Betta.

You can see by my sig how a feel about Brooks...

http://i3.tinypic.com/6cg03di.jpg
http://i17.tinypic.com/4zivk1v.jpg

I'm with ya, Deeg... after 2 weeks and 175 miles (it would be more but I've been out of town for the past couple of days) I've come to the conclusion that I need to nudge the saddle forward a skosh on the Reno.
We got it "close enough" at the LBS but I figured on some tweaks after living with it for a few miles, after we settled in. I'm still thinking about a Brooks.. the Bontrager is feeling less and less comfortable toward the -dare I say- tail end of my 25 milers. I've got my plumb bob all set up and ready to go :D

Moving the seat forward may help. But don't be shocked if it turns out that moving it back is what is needed. You just never know until you try everything. We all want to tell you what has worked for us. But in reality, none of us really know what is going to work for you. My bike, Ribby, is about as dialed in as I can imagine a bike being. I made a lot of changes and adjustments along the way. Some of the changes were things I was sure would be wrong. But they proved to be right.

Moving the seat forward may help. But don't be shocked if it turns out that moving it back is what is needed.

I wasted a lot of time before I tried counter-intuitive things like moving my seat back. TRY EVERYTHING, as BD suggests. One helpful idea is to have 2 or 3 extra stems of varying lengths on hand, so you can change your reach at will, without the hassle of a trip the the LBS to buy another one.

Maybe I should just buy another bike? :D

Just sayin' ...

I'm with ya, Deeg... after 2 weeks and 175 miles (it would be more but I've been out of town for the past couple of days) I've come to the conclusion that I need to nudge the saddle forward a skosh on the Reno.
We got it "close enough" at the LBS but I figured on some tweaks after living with it for a few miles, after we settled in. I'm still thinking about a Brooks.. the Bontrager is feeling less and less comfortable toward the -dare I say- tail end of my 25 milers. I've got my plumb bob all set up and ready to go :D

Stop swearing!!!!

I hate to say it but one thing you learn is that certain names that abound on certain bikes are not that good. I know that will affect and annoy some people but As far as I am concerned- I would rather have a no name part fitted to my bike than a Bontrager part. At least I then have a chance that it may work properly or be of a sensible design that works.

St I would rather have a no name part fitted to my bike than a Bontrager part. At least I then have a chance that it may work properly or be of a sensible design that works.
Agreed. My experience as well.

Not only does the bike need dialling in- You have to adjust to the bike aswell. Back ache- saddle pain and hand ache are to be expected to a certain extent.

Saddle adlustment will probably cure all of these items but only time will tell. I think the clipless might be the next stage though. I know those that use them tell you that they are the way to go- but another point is that they also modify your riding style a bit. They also modify the muscles used so if you do get it perfect now- when the clipless come along- it may change again.

You have already learnt to get out of the saddle for a bit when it starts hurting. Same with the hands and the back. Now as to how you learn to ride with road rash after your first clipless fall is down to you. Stop dithering- as opposed to prevaricating- and learn how to live with the road rash.

Maybe I should just buy another bike? :D

Yeah. Then you can work on dialing both of them in. :D

Made my first adjustment. The saddle was already as far back as it could go, which came as a surprise to me. So, I decided to try moving it forward a half a centimeter or so. Gave that a ten mile test ride and got some good results -- no foot tingling, and no back pain so far. Knees ran silent, ran deep. Of course, that was only ten miles.

OTOH, I may have adjusted the levelness of the nose of the saddle as well without realizing it. The boys were not particularly happy. So, I will now fool with that a bit and give it another test ride.

I also purchased two beach chairs for $4 at a garage sale and brought those home. The seller thought I was crazy carrying them on a bike, but it worked. I was close to home anyway.

Now you can sit back in one of those chairs, and admirer Ruby, and size it up, and see what you have to do next, good luck.

Hope you have a picture of the bike from the first time you bought it home. After a few months of twiddling about- get the picture out and see what has changed. Did this on mine and not much changed but it now fits.

Changes- New stem to raise the bars- pedals- wheels and tyres- and saddle.

Saddle height and fore/aft position has not altered. Bar angle has not changed- but the bike is completely different now it fits.

I was speaking to a knowledgeable person at a large LBS that sells Trek. They told me that many, if not most, Bontrager parts are manufactured by Shimano. Many are rebadged Shimano. I don't know where such parts as their tires and saddles come from.

I was speaking to a knowledgeable person at a large LBS that sells Trek. They told me that many, if not most, Bontrager parts are manufactured by Shimano. Many are rebadged Shimano. I don't know where such parts as their tires and saddles come from.

Sounds goofy to me. Most Bontrager parts are things like stems and handlebars - things that Shimano doesn't make.

There are Bontrager wheels, hubs, rims, cranksets, brakes, brake levers, forks, tires, seat posts, saddles, stems, handlebars, and more.

Even the $8250 Madone SSL 6.9 now sports the Bontrager brand on its fork, wheels, tires, saddle, seat post, handlebar, and stem.

Trek has been growing that line a lot over the past few years. And they are presenting it more and more as an upscale component line.

I don't know where such parts as their tires and saddles come from.

I have had two bikes that I bought new that came with bontrager seats and I think I know where they come from, Hell. Trek is definately putting the house brand bontrager parts everywhere they can on their bikes. My Lemond (owned by Trek) was loaded with them too.

I don't know where such parts as their tires and saddles come from.

I have had two bikes that I bought new that came with bontrager seats and I think I know where they come from, Hell. Trek is definately putting the house brand bontrager parts everywhere they can on their bikes. My Lemond (owned by Trek) was loaded with them too.

I agree 100% about the saddles:eek:

I've replaced both saddles on the two Treks I bought. I was more surprised with the last one as it came on a WSD road bike. It took about 50 miles to determine it wasn't for me.

I'm stoked!

Moved the nose down a little as my second adjustment and put another 15 miles on the bike. This time, there was no tingling in either foot, NO BACK PAIN whatsoever, and the boys seemed content as well. I had a little stiffness in my neck -- like when it feels like you want to crack it but can't seem to crack it -- but other than that, things were good.

I'm sure there will be more tweaking in the days ahead (and especially if I change pedals) but with just two simple adjustments -- sliding the saddle forward a half centimeter and moving the nose down a bit -- it rode a LOT easier.

Even got less hand pain, but that had more to do with reminding myself to relax my hands, and carry some of the weight in my torso. I stopped gripping the handlebar so hard, and just wrapped my hands around it.

I've put 188 miles on the bike in the first 12 days. What a blast!

I've had that "little adjustment = big fit gain" experience a few times myself.

Just today on my ride, I was about 10 miles into it when I noticed I was having more butt pain than on my recent rides. Got off and checked my seat and it had slid up one notch. Readjusted it and was immediately more comfortable and stayed that way for the rest of my ride.

Gary buying a roubaix. Y'all are just messin with my head. No way I'm gonna believe this. I mean, I take a one week vacation and Gee finally pulls the trigger? It's just too much. bk

OK, who had #11 in the "how long will it take for some bent geek to rise to the bait?" pool?
:D

Got beat by one post by the Brooks saddle.;)

Hope you have a picture of the bike from the first time you bought it home. After a few months of twiddling about- get the picture out and see what has changed. Did this on mine and not much changed but it now fits.

Changes- New stem to raise the bars- pedals- wheels and tyres- and saddle.

Saddle height and fore/aft position has not altered. Bar angle has not changed- but the bike is completely different now it fits.


The bike on the right looks much more comfortable.

Gary buying a roubaix. Y'all are just messin with my head. No way I'm gonna believe this. I mean, I take a one wek vacation ane Gee finally pulls the trigger? It's just too much. bk

Come on Gary, where's the picture.

Come on Gary, where's the picture.
If you insist!!!

If you insist!!!


Those bars are higher now, aren't they Gary. I'm just looking for the right fit and they look a few inches high. Mine was even, but now are about 1" higher. Thanks

Those bars are higher now, aren't they Gary. I'm just looking for the right fit and they look a few inches high. Mine was even, but now are about 1" higher. Thanks
My bars are exactly as they came from the LBS, and with the given stem, they can go up no further. I have not fooled around with them at all.