Living Car Free - Gas Prices making Car Free easier

Well, gas prices, at least here in Canada are getting ridiculous.... The other day it hit $1.13/L here in Toronto, cheap compared to places like Montreal and Halifax, or how about Kelowna, BC where the lowest price posted in the last 60 hours was $1.239/L and most stations were $1.289/L or higher (that's $4.963 per US/Gallon), and this is for the cheap stuff.

People do not realise the power they actually have, we can set prices, simply, by putting a moratorium on using gasoline, if enough people stop driving, even temporarily, then it hurts the oil companies where it hurts them the most, the wallet. The profit on, $0 in sales is $0. People can bike, hike, roller-blade, skate-board, take transit, not bother for some trips at all, the idea is to not drive the car for a period of time, exceeding one day. I expect that 3 days would be sufficient to return prices to the 99c/L range.... As soon as prices start heading up again, you stop driving again, this tells the oil companies, that they can't push you around anymore....

You can't be free unless you're carfree. :)

What we are seeing is rationing by price. Gasoline inventories in North America are razor thin, maybe down to as little as a few day's supply on hand in excess of what's needed to keep the pipelines primed. The problem is that it takes a huge increase in price to get the consumption to drop even a little bit. Now would be a really good time for people to cut their gas demand. If for no other reason, so we will have something in reserve to do hurricane evacuations with.

Personally I have discovered many years ago, that's it is easier to manipulate my expenditure on gasoline purchases by using less either by biking, walking, or motorcycle riding than it is to try and change the price at the pump. The dollar amount I spend today on gasoline is on par with what I spent on gasoline 30 plus years ago when I drove more and gasoline was over $3 a gallon cheaper.

The focus should be less on hurting the oil companies, and lowering the price, as it should be on what is responsible and necessary. After gas prices went down after the OPEC issue in 1973 people just started driving more, and then more, and then the economy picked up and they drove still even more. At this point, if the price plummeted I think we'd see a lil bit o' history repeating. Just ride your bike. =)

What we are seeing is rationing by price. Gasoline inventories in North America are razor thin, maybe down to as little as a few day's supply on hand in excess of what's needed to keep the pipelines primed. The problem is that it takes a huge increase in price to get the consumption to drop even a little bit. Now would be a really good time for people to cut their gas demand. If for no other reason, so we will have something in reserve to do hurricane evacuations with.

Very good point. Now would be a good time to curtail unnecessary car trips. There have already been shortages this Spring in some locales and any minor disruption in refining gasoline could cause a lot of disruption at the gas pump. Those of us who survived the 1970s might remember what can happen.

What we are seeing is rationing by price. Gasoline inventories in North America are razor thin, maybe down to as little as a few day's supply on hand in excess of what's needed to keep the pipelines primed.
Not really razor thin (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_sum_sndw_dcus_nus_w.htm) (scroll down to days of forward supply). We're down a day in forward supply compared to last year, and a couple days compared to a few years ago, but we're still at nearly a month of stocks iirc. I don't think the situation you're describing would be met w/ price controls. We would simply ration the stuff ala the 70s. By the time we are at a few days supply, price should be around ~$6-12 imo, and it's distribution would be strictly regulated. If you would look here (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/w_epm0_vsd_nus_daysw.htm), you can see that since the mid-ninties the days of forward gasoline supply has dropped from ~30 in 95', to ~20 currently. This is because after the oil shocks of the 70s, we have at least a good decade of very fuel efficient cars. In order for gas and oil prices to be driven up, we (by we I mean certain lobbies ;)) have had to freeze CAFE at 25mpg for a couple decades, which insured that consumption would grow proportionally to average mileage per driver and number of drivers, as well as build no refineries in North America during those two decades, to insure supply wouldn't increase while demand did, as well as wait and work through fleets of relatively efficient vehicles. Getting oil/gasoline bouncing around due to it's elasticity has truly been a feat decades in the making. We (like before ;)) have had to put a complete stop to advances in fleet efficiency, and not build any new refinery capacity to get where we are today. Hell, something as small as the electric car was considering a threat because even a small, one or two percent drop in consistent consumption could push back the year we start bumping up against the supply that hasn't been increased in two decades. If they caught on, we may never reach that point. So, in the interests of profit, we've been using that stuff up like wildfire.

Not really razor thin (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_sum_sndw_dcus_nus_w.htm) (scroll down to days of forward supply)...
It takes about 185 million barrels of gasoline to keep the delivery system primed (i.e., better not drain the pipelines) [1]. Your link shows current stocks at about 195 million barrels. With consumption around 9.5 million barrels a day, that's (gulp) about one day's buffer. Looks razor-thin to me.

[1] Congressional Research Service, CRS Report for Congress, April 8, 2004, "Gasoline Price Surge Revisited: Crude Oil and Refinery Issues".

"...The 185 million barrel figure can be thought of as the 'fill' needed to keep the distribution system in normal operation; it cannot be drawn upon to meet a demand increment at the pump. There is virtually no extra supply to act as a price cushion, and price spikes, spot shortages, and localized 'run-outs' are a likely possibility."
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/33168.pdf

If I understand the issue (and I probably don't!), refining capacity is low, and refineries are inefficient, outmoded, and ready for the scrap heap. It seems to me that the gas refining companies have two or three good reasons NOT to improve gas production:

Businesses always want to keep supplies low in order to boost prices and profits.
Businesses also boost profits by keeping costs low so they use equipment until it totally wears out.
The refiners know that if supplies get too low, the government will give or loan them tax revenues to build new refineries, so why should they invest their own obscene profits in new plants.
??????I guess lyeinyoureye was saying roughly the same thing?

Pretty much. Thanks for the link Platy, I never knew supply was so spotty. I have to wonder, where precisely would regional shortages first manifest themselves? It almost seems like some places could be skirting by with a day or so, and some could have much longer.

Pretty much. Thanks for the link Platy, I never knew supply was so spotty. I have to wonder, where precisely would regional shortages first manifest themselves? It almost seems like some places could be skirting by with a day or so, and some could have much longer.
Well I hit a total of 3 stations this weekend on the way home that were out of fuel. I don't know if they all depend on the same supplier/tank farm or what. But it was interesting none the less. I have taken to keeping one of the tanks on my work truck full at all times. It is enough to get me home if the excrement impacts the rotary oscillator. I also keep a bike available just in case:D

Aaron:)

None that are out here, and prices are in the $3.40 region. Hmmm...

I have to wonder, where precisely would regional shortages first manifest themselves?
That's been the subject of speculation over on the oil boards. The Midwest has had particularly low gasoline inventories. One poster stated that a couple of stations in Dallas ran out last week because their wholesalers were trucking gas to the Midwest. So shortages won't necessarily occur in the areas with the lowest inventories.

There has been speculation that the Feds will once again lift clean air restrictions so that gas formulated for one market can be more easily sent to another. This could happen very soon depending on whether the situation improves or deteriorates this week. If tank trucks are used more heavily to move supplies between markets, I'd expect that individual stations would experience more delayed deliveries, and if that happens there will be more "Out of Gas" signs seen. According to that theory, the bellwether areas are the ones that rely most on long haul tanker truck delivery, such as Florence, Alabama and Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

Since we're apparently going to do rationing by price, I'd expect shortages to manifest more as price spikes than as closed pumps. These days, distributors are very quick to adjust prices as conditions change. As of today I see a station in Chicago at $3.999. A little extra imported gas (just a handful of ships extra) arrived on the West Coast last week and prices there immediately went down in that region about two cents.

...and yet, SUV sales for the month of April were up 25%. Truth is truly stranger than fiction. Can't wait to see May and June sales results.

For some reason today I saw so many big SUVs hummers and the Denials. Maybe I was just looking for the fools driving in those monsters with gas at $3.29 per gallon.

As for making it easier the traffic seems to have slowed down on my way home from work at noon time. They must not be driving to buy there lunch and brown bagging it to save a few dollars.

The driving culture will never get it. although I have two friends that rode bikes to work last week its a start. but they where driving 30+MPG cars to start with, they seem to see the bigger picture like us. I hope to see them riding more and it become normal for them, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Personally I have discovered many years ago, that's it is easier to manipulate my expenditure on gasoline purchases by using less either by biking, walking than it is to try and change the price at the pump.

I am not car-free, but car-lite. I drive my old Subaru about once a week.

Gas is around 3.30/gal here and I sure have been rethinking my meager driving habits. Most places I need to go are walking distance and most of the rest of the city is an easy bike ride.

Sometimes I use the car for bulk-buying loss-leader grocery shopping. I have noticed groceries going up in price and have been stocking up on some items when there is a good sale.

We were planning on doing a few camping trips over the summer, but we may even scale those back.

If gas gets even more expensive, we can drive even less, or not at all.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the gas situation in the next few months.

Im all for living car free, but its not a realistic option for everyone. I know for me its not a realistic option.
My parents live 250 miles away from where I live, without a car, how am I supposed to see them? How do you pick up a week's worth of grocerys for a family of 4 on a bike?
Maybe for those of you who live in big cities its an option, but its not an option for everyone.
Besides, even I could bike everywhere, Id still never want to give up owning a car. I love cars too much to give them up. I figure if oil is going to be gone in 50 years, why not enjoy it as much as I can while it lasts?

My parents live 250 miles away from where I live, without a car, how am I supposed to see them? How do you pick up a week's worth of grocerys for a family of 4 on a bike?



my family lives farther than that, and the bus works fine

as far as groceries go, my messenger bag holds more groceries than I wanna haul somedays, and there's always bikes setup just to haul cargo


none of the problems of being car free are insurmountable, cars havent always been around........

none of the problems of being car free are insurmountable, cars havent always been around........

+1

or how about Kelowna, BC where the lowest price posted in the last 60 hours was $1.239/L

Good. It'll cut down on the tourons in their winnies.

Im all for living car free, but its not a realistic option for everyone. I know for me its not a realistic option.
My parents live 250 miles away from where I live, without a car, how am I supposed to see them? How do you pick up a week's worth of grocerys for a family of 4 on a bike?
Maybe for those of you who live in big cities its an option, but its not an option for everyone.
Besides, even I could bike everywhere, Id still never want to give up owning a car. I love cars too much to give them up. I figure if oil is going to be gone in 50 years, why not enjoy it as much as I can while it lasts?
Well I hope you keep on studying, your heart's in the right place but your brain ain't caught up with it. ;)

Like pedex I visit my family every month. The 200 mile trip takes about an hour longer by bus than by car, costs about $37, or a tad more than gas, but far less than the 55 cents a mile that the IRS figures for car travel.

Groceries present many options. For right now lets just say it is NOT difficult to get them without a car.

What is it that you love about cars? Maybe you could transfer that love to bikes. Bikes are also beautiful, sexy, fast, powerful. You just don't see many movie stars riding them, or brainwashing commercials on TV. The day will come when car lovers will go to museums to drool over cars!

What will happen when the "Out of Gas" signs start popping up regularly? I bet the price of gas will jump so fast that present increases will be a subject of nostalgia.

Do you work in an industry with elastic demand, like restaurant, manufacturing, travel, home electronics? Look for job layoffs as gas prices increase. People will put off buying other things in order to purchase their precious gas. Hell, they'll probably quit buying crack before they quit buying gas!

What will happen when the "Out of Gas" signs start popping up regularly? I bet the price of gas will jump so fast that present increases will be a subject of nostalgia.

Fuel-rationing via price-increase. Coming to a neighborhood near you.

People who pay their own heating bills will be seeing a rate increase, and people whose landlords pay the gas will be getting notices like the one I got back when i had a heat-included apartment: "your rent is going up 20% this year because natural gas rates have risen". (paraphrased)

And, like conservatives like to remind us, the cost of a whole array of goods will rise. Prices on locally-produced products won't rise much, though. So there'll be an incentive to buy local, live in a home that doesn't need much heating fuel, and drive less. It'll be a pain in the bottom, but people will manage.

And, like conservatives like to remind us, the cost of a whole array of goods will rise. Prices on locally-produced products won't rise much, though. So there'll be an incentive to buy local, live in a home that doesn't need much heating fuel, and drive less. It'll be a pain in the bottom, but people will manage.
I agree that consumer prices will rise due to shipping costs being greater. However, costs of some things, like restaurant meals, might go down. If people are spending more on gas, and therefore less on other things, lowered demand for those other things might reduce prices.

At least that's what I'm hoping.

I have to wonder, where precisely would regional shortages first manifest themselves?
I'm seeing huge (10-20 cent type) 1-day price increases tonight in Chicago, Detroit, Columbus and St Louis. Looks like some gas pumps in the midwest may be sucking wind. One station in Chicago breached $4 today with what looks like a legit price of $4.099. Regions outside the midwest look more stable right now. Weekly petroleum product inventory report due tomorrow.

Damn, Chicago is a good 50 cents/gal higher than CA. A strong hurricane could absolutely screw the midwest's market, and there's no El Nino on the horizon to suppress 'em. I wonder if we'll see more than $10/gal this year?

Oh, and as for the cost of goods going up, it won't be by more than a few percent. Diesels $2.65-85 in the west. By the time fuel prices go up enough to significantly impact the cost of goods, consumers won't be able to pay for gas to get to the store.

Well I hope you keep on studying, your heart's in the right place but your brain ain't caught up with it. ;)
I live out in the country. The bus doesnt make it out to where I live, so that shoots down the theory of riding the bus.

What is it that you love about cars? Maybe you could transfer that love to bikes. Bikes are also beautiful, sexy, fast, powerful. You just don't see many movie stars riding them, or brainwashing commercials on TV. The day will come when car lovers will go to museums to drool over cars!
Sorry, no pedal bike could ever compare to a car. The level of performance just isnt the same. My love of cars has nothing to do with what movie stars are driving.
Dont be so quick to push cars to the museum. Electric cars are a real possibility, as is hydrogen. Look how far automotive technology has come in the past 100 years. If you think the end of oil will be the end of the automotive industry you are living in la-la land.
Sorry, but car-free living isnt for everyone.

Sorry, but car-free living isnt for everyone.
Sure. Can you meet us half way and recognize the validity of the goals of the few people who would like to live car free, or do you want to take the fully opposing position that no one should live car free?

Sorry, but car-free living isnt for everyone.

I'm pretty sure we all know that. It's pretty obvious, you know, since the whole country is full of cars and people who love them, and advertisements hawking them all over the place, and absolute glorification of the things 24-7 from movies to print media to TV to spoken word. Where I live, the sound of autos driving by is present absolutely 100% of the time. So I think it's safe to say that car-free living isn't for everyone, yea. I would say that it's not for, ohhhh, about 99.9% of the people in the US, if I had to pull a figure out of nowhere like I just did. Not too much of a stretch there to say that we are a total minority, with the exception of perhaps the destitute and kids, most of whom want cars but can't have them.

But why bother even coming in here to say that you can't be car-free? Guilt that you can't? Need/desire for argument? Validation and understanding?

Your point is certainly not new. We've seen plenty of people coming in here for no ostensible reason than to say "I can't be car-free under any circumstances, and here are the reasons why and no matter how you might suggest solutions I'll always come up with a counter, etcetera..." Seriously, we've seen masses of you, and I can't help but wonder if it's perhaps because a good chunk of these people (and I'm not referring to you specifically) feel kind of guilty about it deep down and need to rationalize it loud and clear.

Although I've been using first person plural so far, I'll switch to first person singular since I can't speak for everyone on this, but I personally don't hold it against you. The choice is yours and you've made it, and I understand it. Cars are an awesome invention indeed. Go love your cars til the day is long if that's what you intend to do. You need no seal of approval from anyone here. I personally think we should preserve petroleum for use by future generations for all manner of even non-automotive uses, and that both noise and air pollution and the 40,000 dead in the US per year by automotive manslaughter is tragic and lame, but in the me-centered world of today, it's unlikely that anything will change until it has to, and I'm not going around griping at anyone about it because that would both make me a hypocrite and be the least constructive way to advocate my lifestyle choices. I am, however, commiserating with like-minded individuals in this forum, and I'm glad that there are so many of us and that we can discuss these things with relative impunity.


Anyway, "I love cars and I can't live without them" means very little as a syllogistic statement, no matter how you rationalize it. Somewhere in the past, someone said, "Get rid of my slaves? No way! I love owning slaves, and I can't pick all the cotton I have to and still make the same profits I currently do without them!" It's the same type of argument as "I can't visit my relatives 200 miles away and my job is 100 miles away." It comes to this: You pick the circumstances in which you choose to live and operate, and it's not a matter of can't, but of won't or don't want to. You could choose to live closer to your relatives. You could get a job closer to them. You could choose to dislike cars. You don't. You're absolutely like just about everyone else. Congratulations. You're normal. We know that most people feel the same way as you do about cars.

To say that you can't do this period no matter what is intellectually dishonest in the end though. There may come a day when you have to do without cars, and guess what? You will figure out how if that day ever comes. People have been doing fine without them for the bulk of human history and pre-history, kings and beggars alike.

Anyway, enjoy your cars, I guess, but don't feel like you have to explain yourself to anyone here. Rest easy. Nobody here is qualified to be your judge and jury, even if we act like it sometimes when you come in here challenging us to do just that.

But why bother even coming in here to say that you can't be car-free? ... Validation and understanding?
Well, I can come across with the validation and understanding part, hoping it goes both ways.

Seriously, we've seen masses of you, and I can't help but wonder if it's perhaps because a good chunk of these people (and I'm not referring to you specifically) feel kind of guilty about it deep down and need to rationalize it loud and clear.


It is so odd, I sometimes wonder about this too.

Sorry, but car-free living isnt for everyone.

So why are you here?
It seems you like to hang out in LCF just to be a PITA.

Not that I can't understand the appeal of being a PITA from time to time...
:D

...and yet, SUV sales for the month of April were up 25%. Truth is truly stranger than fiction. Can't wait to see May and June sales results.
Anybody know what bike sales are doing?

Gas prices have gone up 20 cents and more here in Michigan.
Literally overnight! I've never seen anything like it, not even in the 1970s.

Meijer's in Lansing is text messaging customers 2 hours before they raise their prices.

Gas prices have gone up 20 cents and more here in Michigan. Literally overnight! I've never seen anything like it, not even in the 1970s.
Inventory report hot off the presses. Midwest down to what some people think are near minimum operating levels for gasoline. You guys are in the crosshairs. Stop driving so much.

Well, I can come across with the validation and understanding part, hoping it goes both ways.

Oh, me too. That's why I included it in that group. I wasn't trying to be prickly. I'm curious about what is behind the desire to go into a car-free forum and start in about how great cars are and why one can't be car-free no matter what, etcetera...

Inventory report hot off the presses. Midwest down to what some people think are near minimum operating levels for gasoline. You guys are in the crosshairs. Stop driving so much.
Driving?! I'm taking a 200 mile bus trip in a few minutes and feeling guilty about that!

OOps--gotta run!

Inventory report hot off the presses. Midwest down to what some people think are near minimum operating levels for gasoline. You guys are in the crosshairs. Stop driving so much.

Define "midwest" please.

Define "midwest" please.

Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Wisconsin.

See map.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/map_eia_padds.html

Im all for living car free, but its not a realistic option for everyone. I know for me its not a realistic option.
My parents live 250 miles away from where I live, without a car, how am I supposed to see them? How do you pick up a week's worth of grocerys for a family of 4 on a bike?
Maybe for those of you who live in big cities its an option, but its not an option for everyone.
Besides, even I could bike everywhere, Id still never want to give up owning a car. I love cars too much to give them up. I figure if oil is going to be gone in 50 years, why not enjoy it as much as I can while it lasts?

Even in the rural places like I live in the northern Adirondacks of New York state. We have a public transportation system small but it does work for some family's. It only runs the rural routes 3 times a day and they provide bike racks on the bus. I have used them when snow storms have been not safe for riding in. Maybe you should check out to see if your state or county offer this:) Just trying to help.

Inventory report hot off the presses. Midwest down to what some people think are near minimum operating levels for gasoline. You guys are in the crosshairs. Stop driving so much.

Stopped for gas today, $3.45 a gallon!!!! Went to the small guy near work, and they were out of everything but Regular Unleaded.

Stopped for gas today, $3.45 a gallon!!!! Went to the small guy near work, and they were out of everything but Regular Unleaded.

Well here in Toronto, ON prices have come down a little, average is down to $1.053 ($4.05/US Gallon), so it's typical, last weekend prices skyrocketed because it was long weekend price gouging (Victoria Day) when they jack the prices up, so that people who decide to go to the cottage, get to pay extra. Happens every long weekend, thing is, I don't think it's going to drop back below a buck a Litre until November.

Looking at Gas Buddy's gas temperature map, it appears that Michigan is carrying the torch for being the leader in highest US gas prices as of now.

Im all for living car free, but its not a realistic option for everyone. I know for me its not a realistic option.

Often our lifestyles need to be modified to become car-lite or car-free, but the first step to getting there is wanting to be car-free. With such a professed love for automobiles I'd agree that it's not realistic to think you will change.

Yet another article on the gasoline supply
Happy reading :)

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gasolines-making-consumers-fume-dont/story.aspx?guid=%7B64ACCBCD%2DB346%2D4A7E%2DAF6C%2DFD004038C27E%7D

Looking at Gas Buddy's gas temperature map, it appears that Michigan is carrying the torch for being the leader in highest US gas prices as of now.3.65 at many stations. Up from3.00 in a couple weeks.

Go Michigan! If cars are so great how come we have the highest unemployment rate AND the highest gas prices?

Just want to inform you that the current average gasoline price in Sweden is ( when checking currencies e.t.c.) 6.89$ a gallon (=3.87 litres). So really you shouldn´t complain about 3-4 $ a gallon :)

Just want to inform you that the current average gasoline price in Sweden is ( when checking currencies e.t.c.) 6.89$ a gallon (=3.87 litres). So really you shouldn´t complain about 3-4 $ a gallon :)

Yea, well...our (US) taxes pay for the most ridiculously over-giant, steroidal military in the world that does us no good, so we can complain a little. :D

heck. here summer gas prices go up to 1.34/L. You get used to it. Europeans are frugal with the use of their car. The French government was generous. Finally cut through the paper work and gave me a license. Sort of disappointed in ways, I was curious how I'd handle not being allowed to drive. I still do all I can to minimize car useage. So far this week, car has not started up once. Guess, we will break down and use it this Sunday to meet up with some friends in a city 20 Km distance. I do every errand possible on the bike.

heck. here summer gas prices go up to 1.34/L. You get used to it. Europeans are frugal with the use of their car. The French government was generous. Finally cut through the paper work and gave me a license. Sort of disappointed in ways, I was curious how I'd handle not being allowed to drive. I still do all I can to minimize car useage. So far this week, car has not started up once. Guess, we will break down and use it this Sunday to meet up with some friends in a city 20 Km distance. I do every errand possible on the bike.

Take me on as a lodger? Please? I don't eat much and I try to be clean and unassuming.

you'll welcome. bring your bikes. You do do plumbing too?