Living Car Free - Boss says, I'll need a car!!

I just found out last week that my job is moving to the burbs. My boss told me last Friday, I'll need to buy a car since the new location is an office park and the public transportation situation is poor. The office park is just five miles away from the train station so I thought I'd simply ride there on a folding bike and I wouldn't have to buy a car. Needless to say, I visited the new location to see how bad things are.

1. HUGE HILL and Traffic is horrible--- The new office park is located in an area at the bottom of a huge hill. Going home after a long day at work will be exhausting and stressful as the traffic moves at speeds in excess of 60 mph!

2. One bus arrives every hour ---- I figured, should the weather get bad, I'll take the bus. That was until I found out that only one bus arrives every hour and it does not sync with the train. I'll have to get up pretty early in the morning to meet the schedule of both bus and train.

3. Bus Shelter open to the elements ---- The bus shelter is located several blocks away from the office park in the middle of a highway! How brilliant was this thinking! The bus shelter is not fully enclosed and I'm exposed to rain, snow and the summer heat. It's this type of anti-transit bigotry that prevents people from the city to apply for jobs in the burbs. In addition, I actually have to walk on the shoulder with cars and trucks roaring by at 60 mph to catch the bus!

4. 3 hour commute and 3K pay cut ----- The new commute out to the burbs by public transit will make my morning commute a 3 hour or more marathon. In addition, the commuter train will set me back 3K per year.

As you can imagine, I have to start looking for a new job. It's unfortunate because I really like the company and the people but, there is no way you'll see me standing on a highway during a rain storm waiting for a bus.

You always here about people who can't leave the burbs because they have a high paying job. Well, you're about to see me walk away from one because I refuse to buy a car because public transportation at the new office is horrible.

A car-free lifestyle is all about simplicity.

I bet your company's new location just coincidentally happens to be closer to the general manager's house. True?

I bet your company's new location just coincidentally happens to be closer to the general manager's house. True?

LOL.......

I never bothered to ask. I get the feeling they just want to clean house and start over since very few will make that trek.

Sorry about this stupid complication in your life. I really admire your dedication. I think they'll be losing a good employee. I hope it works out for the best in the long run, and there's a good chance that it will because you're being true to yourself.

Have you talked with your boss about the situation? Maybe the company would pay for your train pass. Or maybe they'll buy a van that several employees could carpool in. I believe they can get tax credits for that. It isn't carfree, but it's pretty close.

That's what coming. People are demanding that the good jobs come out to them. My wife's company did it, she works for a major bank based in Cincinnati, Oh. They moved their HQ out to the burbs to get away from the outrageous crime, and cost in Cincinnati. The keep their name on the high rise building downtown, but there are only about 15 employees inside it.

I know exactly what you're going through. I just switched to a job in the burbs because I thought the train + the bike ride would work out ok. Turns out that I'm looking for a new job as I type. Advice for anyone who's carless and has this happen to them: think through the consequences of traffic in the suburbs before you take the job. It's less than 3 miles from the train station to my office, but it's on heavy industrial roads with big hills. It's not safe--I've been buzzed by semi-trucks at least twice a day.

I give huge kudos to you for looking for a new job. Not everyone would say that not driving is more important than a job!

I took a 20k per year pay cut when I quit my last job to come here. What good is more money if you ain't got time to enjoy it and end up in a box before your time.

I bet your company's new location just coincidentally happens to be closer to the general manager's house. True?
This happened at a friend's work place. It is also possible that the company is reducing overhead costs by moving into a place with lower rent or building costs without considering the costs to their current workers.

This happened at a friend's work place. It is also possible that the company is reducing overhead costs by moving into a place with lower rent or building costs without considering the costs to their current workers.
And sometimes the new city or townships give the company tax credits for moving there. They call it "creating new jobs" even though they're really just stealing old jobs.

I just found out last week that my job is moving to the burbs.

A car-free lifestyle is all about simplicity.

might it be worth it to move right close to the new location?

I just found out last week that my job is moving to the burbs. My boss told me last Friday, I'll need to buy a car since the new location is an office park and the public transportation situation is poor. The office park is just five miles away from the train station so I thought I'd simply ride there on a folding bike and I wouldn't have to buy a car. Needless to say, I visited the new location to see how bad things are.

1. HUGE HILL and Traffic is horrible--- The new office park is located in an area at the bottom of a huge hill. Going home after a long day at work will be exhausting and stressful as the traffic moves at speeds in excess of 60 mph!

2. One bus arrives every hour ---- I figured, should the weather get bad, I'll take the bus. That was until I found out that only one bus arrives every hour and it does not sync with the train. I'll have to get up pretty early in the morning to meet the schedule of both bus and train.

3. Bus Shelter open to the elements ---- The bus shelter is located several blocks away from the office park in the middle of a highway! How brilliant was this thinking! The bus shelter is not fully enclosed and I'm exposed to rain, snow and the summer heat. It's this type of anti-transit bigotry that prevents people from the city to apply for jobs in the burbs. In addition, I actually have to walk on the shoulder with cars and trucks roaring by at 60 mph to catch the bus!

4. 3 hour commute and 3K pay cut ----- The new commute out to the burbs by public transit will make my morning commute a 3 hour or more marathon. In addition, the commuter train will set me back 3K per year.

As you can imagine, I have to start looking for a new job. It's unfortunate because I really like the company and the people but, there is no way you'll see me standing on a highway during a rain storm waiting for a bus.

You always here about people who can't leave the burbs because they have a high paying job. Well, you're about to see me walk away from one because I refuse to buy a car because public transportation at the new office is horrible.

A car-free lifestyle is all about simplicity.

Hello Dahon Steve,

I live in an area where public transportation has been relegated to the status of it being only for losers for as long as I can remember. Although our system has been really improving for at least 20 years, it is still limiting and unpredictable to the average commuter unless you are lucky enough to live/work in a good transportation system that runs far more than 1 every hour. I have been resigned to the fact that here in car worshipping Southern California, I have to be far more flexible than my car owning and addicted brother and sister. Hence, the folding bikes and a possible purchase of a very small car like the new Smart Car or the Honda Fit. Yes, they cost more money and I lose the true freedom of being car free. But I will keep my folding bikes and the old Phillips up and running and combine the two systems-car and bike-of transporting myself and luggage about whenever possible. And still use public transportation whenever possible, leaving the car at home. Plus I will be able to get around and return to work where I really want to be at...not because I limits I impose on myself. Stay flexible, rather than getting too attached to any one method of transport.

This happened at a friend's work place. It is also possible that the company is reducing overhead costs by moving into a place with lower rent or building costs without considering the costs to their current workers.

The new president of a company that I worked for in Arkansas, moved the entire company to Santa Cruz because he lived near there. He laid me off just before that so it didn't affect me, but a coworker went from a 2 bedroom apt to a 1 bedroom in the center of San Jose, only 30 miles away.

Oddly enough, that company bought out the next company I worked for. The president wanted to move all operations to Santa Cruz, but they couldn't, because for tax reasons they had to keep open an office in Arkansas. So I stay.

Needless to say, I visited the new location to see how bad things are.

From your description, it's terrible. I hope you can find a good solution.

Only in America. Blah!

Can you work out any kind of telecommuting deal?

Have you talked with your boss about the situation? Maybe the company would pay for your train pass. Or maybe they'll buy a van that several employees could carpool in. I believe they can get tax credits for that. It isn't carfree, but it's pretty close.

These are good ideas but my boss is close to me and told me not to tell anyone else. Almost everyone knows what's about to happen as recruiters are cold calling. The carpool sounds like a good idea but these ideas will not come to being until after the final decision is made.

might it be worth it to move right close to the new location?

I was thinking about this.

However, I can't afford to live or buy the mansions next to the office park. There are some beautiful homes there that are breathtaking.

Be flexible. If you like the company and fellow employees, why not consider buying a scooter? great mileage, cheap to own/operate/insure, and will get you to work and back. Alternatively, a used Honda Civic hybrid or Prius (earlier generation of both) would cost very little to own and operate. You will likely not put many miles on it, hence it would make more sense to buy used than new since new cars lose a lot to depreciation, the largest expense in car ownership.

I understand the commuter rail being too expensive, but I don't really get why riding 5 miles in traffic would be a deal breaker. I mean, where do you ride your folding bike now?

Anyway, it seems to me that you're main beef is with the long commute. $3K per year is only $12 per day and if the commute is far enough that you need to take the commuter rail then I imagine driving a car to work would cost more than $12 per day. In other words, even if you started driving a car to work it doesn't seem like the situation would be any better.

Is there some way to carpool with another employee from somewhere along your route?

Is there some way to carpool with another employee from somewhere along your route?

Carpooling generally only works when the carpoolers each share in the driving. It also requires very stable work schedules and becomes a problem when the driver needs to take time off work.

If you can get a group of employees together that want to share expenses, you might check for a vanpool program in your area. In Dallas, the mass transit authority, DART, contracts with a third party to lease passenger vans to groups of commuters. In our area, a 15 passenger van leases for $200/month and includes all maintenance and insurance. The riders pay the lease and gas. I commute 30 miles each way in one of these and it currently costs only $40/month. If I drove my car, it would cost about $40/week! http://www.dart.org/about/employerrideshare.asp

If your employer cooperates, there are even ways to pay this with pre-tax dollars, saving even more money. Even if you don't go the vanpool route, it is possible for your employer to set things up so you can pay for mass transit fares with pre-tax dollars.

Be flexible. If you like the company and fellow employees, why not consider buying a scooter? great mileage, cheap to own/operate/insure, and will get you to work and back.
Yup. My little 250 ninja was under $2K with 540 miles on it (yes this is right, 540 miles and under $2K), $150 a year insurance, $10 to change my own oil (every 3Kish miles), and I do all the work myself so it's VERY cheap to operate. 60+ mpg. With saddlebags, the amount of stuff I can carry is absolutely amazing. It'll cruise at 80 all day long so keeping up with traffic isn't a problem.

That first year of public transit would pay for a little bike like mine. It's not going to be a chick magnet like the super sports, but that's not the point.

My company recently moved up into the mountains. It's farther away from almost everyone, but only a couple miles farther from me. Everyone complains about the longer commute and the extra gas it uses. But a lot of people carpool, and there are a few new people biking in some of the time.

I'm just glad they moved into a rural setting, instead of suburban. It makes the bike ride quite nice. Of course, it may end up being suburban someday.

+1 on the ninja 250 excellent cheap motorized transportation

Yup. My little 250 ninja was under $2K with 540 miles on it (yes this is right, 540 miles and under $2K), $150 a year insurance, $10 to change my own oil (every 3Kish miles), and I do all the work myself so it's VERY cheap to operate. 60+ mpg. With saddlebags, the amount of stuff I can carry is absolutely amazing. It'll cruise at 80 all day long so keeping up with traffic isn't a problem.

That first year of public transit would pay for a little bike like mine. It's not going to be a chick magnet like the super sports, but that's not the point.

Yeah, but that's a much more dangerous way to travel than public transit or bicycle. Safety is worth something.

I have found it to be LESS dangerous than the bicycle because you can keep up with traffic and wear better protection. My bicycle get offs have been much more painful.

I just found out last week that my job is moving to the burbs. My boss told me last Friday, I'll need to buy a car since the new location is an office park and the public transportation situation is poor. The office park is just five miles away from the train station so I thought I'd simply ride there on a folding bike and I wouldn't have to buy a car. Needless to say, I visited the new location to see how bad things are.

1. HUGE HILL and Traffic is horrible--- The new office park is located in an area at the bottom of a huge hill. Going home after a long day at work will be exhausting and stressful as the traffic moves at speeds in excess of 60 mph!

2. One bus arrives every hour ---- I figured, should the weather get bad, I'll take the bus. That was until I found out that only one bus arrives every hour and it does not sync with the train. I'll have to get up pretty early in the morning to meet the schedule of both bus and train.

3. Bus Shelter open to the elements ---- The bus shelter is located several blocks away from the office park in the middle of a highway! How brilliant was this thinking! The bus shelter is not fully enclosed and I'm exposed to rain, snow and the summer heat. It's this type of anti-transit bigotry that prevents people from the city to apply for jobs in the burbs. In addition, I actually have to walk on the shoulder with cars and trucks roaring by at 60 mph to catch the bus!

4. 3 hour commute and 3K pay cut ----- The new commute out to the burbs by public transit will make my morning commute a 3 hour or more marathon. In addition, the commuter train will set me back 3K per year.

As you can imagine, I have to start looking for a new job. It's unfortunate because I really like the company and the people but, there is no way you'll see me standing on a highway during a rain storm waiting for a bus.

You always here about people who can't leave the burbs because they have a high paying job. Well, you're about to see me walk away from one because I refuse to buy a car because public transportation at the new office is horrible.

A car-free lifestyle is all about simplicity.


Is there anyone else that works there, the same hours, who lives near you? If there is, maybe you could carpool, give them say $10 a week for gas, saves them a few bucks, and saves you the aggrivation of job hunting.....

Yup. My little 250 ninja was under $2K with 540 miles on it (yes this is right, 540 miles and under $2K)

That's crazy. How did you get a deal like that? :eek:

MSRP is $3K

It was 3 years old, dead of winter, bought it from a guy in KY that needed the money.

I paid $1850, but the pre-purchase inspection was $60 and gas to go pick it up was another $50 or so, so I figure it cost me right under $2K to get to my door.

I've put about 7K miles on it since, in less than a year and a half. Plus about 1,500 on the 6r. Not counting the bicycles.

I also paid at least a grand less than than the 6r was worth. If you are patient and careful you can find deals if you can do a little bit of work on them yourself.

MSRP is $3K

It was 3 years old, dead of winter, bought it from a guy in KY that needed the money.

I paid $1850, but the pre-purchase inspection was $60 and gas to go pick it up was another $50 or so, so I figure it cost me right under $2K to get to my door.

I've put about 7K miles on it since, in less than a year and a half. Plus about 1,500 on the 6r. Not counting the bicycles.

That's still a really good price; I'd like to have bought my bike from a private party instead of a dealer. For my GS500, I paid about the same price, but eleven years old instead of three, with 18K miles. The MSRP was higher, but a little Ninja would've suited my purposes about as well (may have been a little too small for me though).

Of course, here there are almost no used motorcycles for sale in classifieds or Craigslist aside from $20K chrome machines, and dealers sell new Ninja 250s for several hundred dollars above MSRP, so choices are limited. It seems like it's the same with bicycles; the cheapest used road bike my LBS had was $500; I was hoping to find something for about half that. CL and classifieds, though, they mostly have beat-down and rusty Huffys. I haven't seen anything resembling a practical bicycle at all.

Yup. My little 250 ninja was under $2K with 540 miles on it (yes this is right, 540 miles and under $2K), $150 a year insurance, $10 to change my own oil (every 3Kish miles), and I do all the work myself so it's VERY cheap to operate. 60+ mpg. With saddlebags, the amount of stuff I can carry is absolutely amazing. It'll cruise at 80 all day long so keeping up with traffic isn't a problem.

That first year of public transit would pay for a little bike like mine. It's not going to be a chick magnet like the super sports, but that's not the point.

The Ninja 250 is an excellent bike. +1

... but a coworker went from a 2 bedroom apt to a 1 bedroom in the center of San Jose, only 30 miles away..
ONLY 30 gruelling miles! :D
Up & over the Santa Cruz mountains is NOT a commute for the timid!
Or anyone besides Lance! ;)


Oddly enough, that company bought out the next company I worked for. The president wanted to move all operations to Santa Cruz, but they couldn't, because for tax reasons they had to keep open an office in Arkansas. So I stay.
So I take it you've never been to Santa Cruz?
It's a beautiful area and one of the most bicycle friendly cities in the country!
Also home to many bicycle companies like Bell, Calfee, Santa Cruz mtn bikes, Easy Racers & others.
So stay if you must, but I would recommend a trip to S.C. to check it out! :D

That's still a really good price; I'd like to have bought my bike from a private party instead of a dealer. For my GS500, I paid about the same price, but eleven years old instead of three, with 18K miles. The MSRP was higher, but a little Ninja would've suited my purposes about as well (may have been a little too small for me though).
I hear you. I looked for over a month and drove a 300 mile round trip to get that deal though. I'm hoping I can do it again with a 500 this winter. Fix it and the 636 up and sell the 636.

Damn I must have logged into the motorcycle forum instead of the bicycle forum.

I understand the commuter rail being too expensive, but I don't really get why riding 5 miles in traffic would be a deal breaker. I mean, where do you ride your folding bike now?

Anyway, it seems to me that you're main beef is with the long commute. $3K per year is only $12 per day and if the commute is far enough that you need to take the commuter rail then I imagine driving a car to work would cost more than $12 per day. In other words, even if you started driving a car to work it doesn't seem like the situation would be any better.

You make a good point.

If I can't find another job that pays what I'm making now, I'll have to go the folding bike route. I just don't like the fact that it's a real long commute to work (close to 3 hours or more) plus the added expense.

Damn I must have logged into the motorcycle forum instead of the bicycle forum.
Well, as Former President Lyndon B. Johnson once pithily observed, I'd rather have them inside the tent ****ing out than outside the tent ****ing in.

...$12 per day...



You make a good point.

If I can't find another job that pays what I'm making now, I'll have to go the folding bike route. I just don't like the fact that it's a real long commute to work (close to 3 hours or more) plus the added expense.

I'm sure $12 per day isn't that much compared to what they're paying you, but 6 hours per day commuting? As far as I'm concerned, those 6 hours per day are worth a fortune. Employers certainly have to pay a lot more if they want workers to accept a 4-hour/day increase in work.

Damn I must have logged into the motorcycle forum instead of the bicycle forum.
It's still car free! Small, economical, efficient, and you can lean wid it! :D

Steve, no love for the moto?

The wonderful thing is that after the first few years the 250s depreciate a couple hundred a year at most if well maintained. Even if you buy one and switch jobs 6 months later and sell it you are still not doing bad.

I understand the commuter rail being too expensive, but I don't really get why riding 5 miles in traffic would be a deal breaker. I mean, where do you ride your folding bike now? I'm not the OP, but there is traffic and then there is traffic.

I want to thank everyone for all your good answers. It's still up in the air whether they are going to keep us since another department was recently let go!

Car pooling sound like a good idea and I'll look into this with more detail. Personally, I don't like the fact that I'll be dependant on another individual but it's an option. Should I arrive late, I'll have to take a cab but this maybe my only alternative.

The scooter sounds like a good idea and I've been recently thinking of learning how to ride a motorcycle. Unfortunately, the new office is about 50 miles from where I live and the traffic is heavy all over. Winters in New York/New Jersey can be brutal and at my age, it's a little too much. I still have time to look for a new job and if worse comes to worse, I'll go the folding bike route providing they don't layoff the department. Next week I'll see if I can scout another route from the train station.

Thanks for everything.

50 miles? holy crap! There HAS to be something closer to where you work.

Find another job dude...vote with your feet. I've done it twice now and I'm really glad I did no way someone is going to force me into a car again. You subtract the cost of car ownership and a minimum wage job is not that bad and there are alot of them and without the pressure of high pay..if the pay was high you wouldn't have to worry about the cost & time to get to the job... You're company isn't interested in it's workers so why should you be so interested in staying with them.. screw 'em..

That's crazy. How did you get a deal like that? :eek:

These days it's getting easier. With the housing market crashing, lots of people with the "McMansions" they can't afford are selling a lot of the toys they accumulated over the last few years. In my area I'm seeing a lot of powerboats and ATVs getting really cheap in the classifieds and craisglist, which I'm not interested in. But more recently I'm starting to see some sailboats coming down in price, which is much more interesting to me.

I'd guess that the Harleys and other big bikes are the first motorcycles to get liquidated, but the smaller ones will show up soon enough!


And also, I would definitely start looking for a job closer to home!

This is more a matter of where you are located to get more choices. I live in California. Everyone else always want to live there. So if someone goes broke, there is always someone else to step in and enjoy the house, cars, baubles that come with the lifestyle everyone else so coverts in other parts of the country or even the world. Since most things of value is finite-land, gold, etc. plus not distributed evenly around the country or some other geograpghical location-it is fought over in the prime attractive areas like where I live. Dahon Steve, you may or may not have an easy time of finding a matching or better job than what you have right now. And I find that as one gets older, the more you are passed up in favor of a younger,cheaper, and healthier prospect. So weight everything in before a major change.