This is what the lady in her mini van said to me after she nearly ran me over yesterday evening. I was on my usual ride on the city's designated bike route. These routes are streets with multiple lanes or extremely wide lanes. Normally, most folks give me plenty of room. However, yesterday this lady was late or lost and talking on her cell phone. She seemed truly remorseful, however that wouldn't do me any good if she had hit me. I am clueless as to what I need to do. My ride goes through my neighborhood and onto one city street that borders the neighborhood. I ride it almost every day doing several loops. It wasn't dark and I'm not a little person.
She was probably there to pick up little "Johnny" from soccer practice. I've called the city to complain that an out of city team is over using our park for practice. Hopefully they will be able to move this team back to their own city with all their SUVs and mini vans. Get this, one of the SUVs, a Ford diesel Excursion, was left idling for an hour to keep someone cool I guess. Why are people like this? When do you suddenly change from a kid who loves his/her bicycle to someone who loathes bicycles?
Sorry for the rant. This one just got to me I guess. In hindsight I did have a good ride. A quick 15 miles and a dip in the pool and a couple of fajitas for dinner:eek: .
Thanks for reading and be safe.
Don
shaharidan
06-19-03, 08:52 AM
sorry to hear it, but i'm glad you weren't hurt. always frustrating since theres not really anything satisfying you can do about it.
just do an extra lap, maybe that will put a smile back on your face :)
Rich Clark
06-19-03, 10:31 AM
IMO, "I didn't see you" is an implicit admission of negligence. It's a driver's responsibility to see surrounding traffic.
My philosophy of vehicular cycling could be stated as "Finding the border between appropriate assertiveness and enlightened self-preservation, and riding on it."
In practical terms, that means a constant and ever-changing process of calculating escape routes, assuming that any car that can turn into my path will turn into my path, and making sure I know what I'll do if they turn. Behaving as traffic and riding legally is part of it, but it's by no means all of it.
As for idling diesel SUV's, a tennis ball stuck in the tailpipe can work wonders.
RichC
spexy
06-19-03, 01:28 PM
I agree with Rich.
I always practice the "pretend I'm invisible to them" method because I might as well be. I learned that from riding a motorcycle.
Lamenting the state of drivers today seems like wasted energy. Until the drivers license test includes anextensive teaching of bicycles right to the road I fear nothing will change.
Glad you're OK Moonbear.
Erick L
06-19-03, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by MoonBear
Why are people like this? When do you suddenly change from a kid who loves his/her bicycle to someone who loathes bicycles?
After they stop playing marbles and before they start playing golf.
Grown ups... :rolleyes:
MeHT
06-19-03, 02:18 PM
Take a camera and a tape recorder. Or, better yet, a camera. Tape them saying their 'I didn't see you' line and their license plate. And sue them.
:)
khuon
06-19-03, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by MoonBear
This is what the lady in her mini van said to me after she nearly ran me over yesterday evening.
I know how you feel. I almost got squeezed into the curb while in a bikelane and received a, "I'm sorry... I was trying to get my kids to stop fighting" line. Then I got lectured on how I shouldn't be riding in the street because it was too dangerous.
Pete Clark
06-19-03, 06:28 PM
I'm tellin' ya--get a loud whistle and keep it in your teeth.
Wake 'em up. It works every time.
:beer:
MsVicki
06-19-03, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by MoonBear
This is what the lady in her mini van said to me after she nearly ran me over yesterday evening.
She was probably there to pick up little "Johnny" from soccer practice.
Hey! I used to be a soccer mom driving a mini-van, although I never almost ran over a cyclist while picking "little Eric" up. I drove a mini-van because I hauled whole soccer teams around in it, so I needed it. As soon as I didn't, I sold it.
"Soccer moms" sure get a bad rap from some of you guys!
:(
bac
06-19-03, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Rich Clark
IMO, "I didn't see you" is an implicit admission of negligence. It's a driver's responsibility to see surrounding traffic.
That's certainly how a reasonable person would interpret that statement. Unfortunately, we seem to live in a world of the unreasonables. :mad:
bac
06-19-03, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by MsVicki
"Soccer moms" sure get a bad rap from some of you guys!
:(
I have no problem with moms in mini-vans. Unfortunately, this demographic seems the most likely to kill me in the near future.
Mini-vans and SUV drivers seem to pay the least amount of attention to the act of driving. Of course, not all mini-van and SUV drivers, but it's not my imagination that these two specific types of scoots seem to want to zap me from the face of the earth! :)
Rich Clark
06-19-03, 07:29 PM
I don't drive much any more, but my motor vehicle is a minivan. Best thing in the world for carrying three people, their bikes, and all their gear, all inside and without taking any wheels off the bikes.
Minivans aren't negligent and distracted. Drivers are.
RichC
FOG
06-19-03, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by MeHT
And sue them.
:) Does the phrase "frivolous litigation" ring a bell? There is no cause of action here because there was no harm. Had there been harm, then there might be a cause of action, her statement would have been an admission, and admissible as evidence.
FOG
06-19-03, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Pete Clark
I'm tellin' ya--get a loud whistle and keep it in your teeth.
Wake 'em up. It works every time.
:beer: At least under the Motor Vehicle Code of Maryland, which regulates bicycles, a bicycle is required to have an audible warning device, but shall not carry or use either a whistle or a siren. Your jurisdiction may have similar requirements. btw- LBS owners take note- you should make sure every new, used or repaired bike leaving your shop meets the audible warning device requirement. Not only do you get to sell a bell or horn, but you avoid potential litigation for sending a bike out that doesn't meet the legal requirements.
MsVicki
06-19-03, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Rich Clark
I don't drive much any more, but my motor vehicle is a minivan. Best thing in the world for carrying three people, their bikes, and all their gear, all inside and without taking any wheels off the bikes.
Minivans aren't negligent and distracted. Drivers are.
RichC
Exactly.
Originally posted by bac
I have no problem with moms in mini-vans. Unfortunately, this demographic seems the most likely to kill me in the near future.
Mini-vans and SUV drivers seem to pay the least amount of attention to the act of driving. Of course, not all mini-van and SUV drivers, but it's not my imagination that these two specific types of scoots seem to want to zap me from the face of the earth! :)
Well, around here, I am more likely to get run off the road by rednecks driving pick-ups than by "soccer moms" in mini-vans. Oops, sorry...that was yet another generalization! :p
Chris L
06-20-03, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by MsVicki
Well, around here, I am more likely to get run off the road by rednecks driving pick-ups than by "soccer moms" in mini-vans.
So am I - and that is not a generalisation of any kind - it's a solid fact.
However, the "I didn't see him" excuse is lame - and at least in my view - it's wearing a little thin. What bugs me is that in so many court cases where a driver has killed a cyclist, nobody ever bothers to ask "why not?" I'm sorry, but simply not paying attention is no excuse.
chewa
06-20-03, 03:54 AM
I didn't see you because I didn't look for you. That's the sad truth.
MoonBear
06-20-03, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by MsVicki
Hey! I used to be a soccer mom driving a mini-van, although I never almost ran over a cyclist while picking "little Eric" up. I drove a mini-van because I hauled whole soccer teams around in it, so I needed it. As soon as I didn't, I sold it.
"Soccer moms" sure get a bad rap from some of you guys!
:(
Sorry. I thought twice about that comment. I coach two soccer teams, a U12B and a U9G. My son's team and a girls team who couldn't find a coach.
Again sorry.
Don
Edited for clarity.
Pete Clark
06-20-03, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by FOG
At least under the Motor Vehicle Code of Maryland, which regulates bicycles, a bicycle is required to have an audible warning device, but shall not carry or use either a whistle or a siren. Your jurisdiction may have similar requirements.
You are right, and I respect you for that. But I disagree totally when it comes to saving my life from inattentive drivers chatting away on their cellphones or daydreaming. I will break the law in this case with no regret. A whistle is the fastest way to get a driver's attention, and fractions of a second count.
I ride through two urban counties, each with their own police departments (I ride right past the police station of one,) and through four cities: Stone Mountain, Avondale Estates, Decatur and Atlanta. Never has any policeman bothered me about my whistle. I don't think they care, or even have time to bother with me.
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I saw a policeman using a whistle to direct traffic.
Remember, sometimes you have to go around the system to protect yourself if the system won't protect you.
FOG
06-20-03, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Pete Clark
You are right, and I respect you for that. But I disagree totally when it comes to saving my life from inattentive drivers chatting away on their cellphones or daydreaming. I will break the law in this case with no regret. A whistle is the fastest way to get a driver's attention, and fractions of a second count.
I ride through two urban counties, each with their own police departments (I ride right past the police station of one,) and through four cities: Stone Mountain, Avondale Estates, Decatur and Atlanta. Never has any policeman bothered me about my whistle. I don't think they care, or even have time to bother with me.
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I saw a policeman using a whistle to direct traffic.
Remember, sometimes you have to go around the system to protect yourself if the system won't protect you. It may well be time to modify some of the archaic provisions of various motor vehicle codes. I will try to find out who runs the committees on uniform motor vehicle codes and post their info so all of us can petition them.
RonH
06-23-03, 05:52 AM
I had a similar thing happen to me last Friday AND Saturday at the same intersection. I was on a main road where a side road merges. The side road traffic has a yield sign. Both times the driver slowed to look and yield if there was any traffic. I think the problem was that they were looking "way down the road" for cars and I was almost in front of them. They began to pull onto the road and immediately stopped when they saw me directly in front of them. I was wearing a Hi-Viz jersey and it was bright and sunny. I was able to talk with the driver on the first day.
She was in a mini-van (I hate those things :crash: ). I asked her if she had problems seeing me. I told her I wore bright clothing so motorists could see me. She said she didn't see me because I was in "a blind spot". I suggested that since she knew about the blind spot that perhaps she should look more carefully in the future because many cyclists rode past that intersection every day. She was obviously shaken by the incident so maybe she learned something.
I wasn't able to talk to the driver on the second day. She took off once I was out of her way. :mad:
MsVicki
06-23-03, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by RonH
I had a similar thing happen to me last Friday AND Saturday at the same intersection. I was on a main road where a side road merges. The side road traffic has a yield sign. Both times the driver slowed to look and yield if there was any traffic. I think the problem was that they were looking "way down the road" for cars and I was almost in front of them. They began to pull onto the road and immediately stopped when they saw me directly in front of them. I was wearing a Hi-Viz jersey and it was bright and sunny. I was able to talk with the driver on the first day.
She was in a mini-van (I hate those things :crash: ). I asked her if she had problems seeing me. I told her I wore bright clothing so motorists could see me. She said she didn't see me because I was in "a blind spot". I suggested that since she knew about the blind spot that perhaps she should look more carefully in the future because many cyclists rode past that intersection every day. She was obviously shaken by the incident so maybe she learned something.
I wasn't able to talk to the driver on the second day. She took off once I was out of her way. :mad:
Years ago I was driving a pick-up truck (fancy that) and was stopped at a stop sign in town. I looked both ways...no one was coming. I pulled out...almost ran over a man on a motorcycle! I wasn't in a min-van, I wasn't talking on a cell phone, I wasn't distracted by kids or music or anything else, I simply DID NOT SEE that man and that motorcycle.
Needless to say, he shot me the finger, yelled something that I deserved (and cannot repeat here), and drove on. Since that time, I have been extra careful to watch for motorcycles and cyclists.
Maybe the women you speak of were scared enough to become more careful, Ron. That incident with me happened twenty years ago, and it scared me enough that I remember it like it was yesterday. Glad you were ok!
chewa
06-23-03, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by MsVicki
I simply DID NOT SEE that man and that motorcycle.
Since that time, I have been extra careful to watch for motorcycles and cyclists.
I think that's it. the look for a car is no good because if you expect to see a car, you won't see a bike.
You have to approach junctions looking for bikes.
Rich Clark
06-23-03, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by RonH
She was in a mini-van (I hate those things :crash: ).
Get that hammer away from my Mazda MPV, you! :D
RichC
Chris L
06-23-03, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by chewa
I think that's it. the look for a car is no good because if you expect to see a car, you won't see a bike.
You have to approach junctions looking for bikes.
Yes, and this is where driver training needs to be changed to include some kind of component about actually considering the possibility that cyclists might use that particular road. Unfortunately, one of the worst offending groups for abusing cyclists around here is driving instructors. :(
Paige
06-25-03, 10:47 AM
Wear bright colors= Safety green, yellow, orange that borders on neon
No dark or neutral colors. That way if you do get hit and survive, manage to get to court your lawyer will be able to hold up your jersey/shirt and ask "You did not see this?"
Chris L
06-26-03, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by Paige
Wear bright colors= Safety green, yellow, orange that borders on neon
No dark or neutral colors. That way if you do get hit and survive, manage to get to court your lawyer will be able to hold up your jersey/shirt and ask "You did not see this?"
The sad part is, when they admit that they didn't see it, they'll probably just get "counselling" and asked to "please don't do it again". :(
mechBgon
07-05-03, 03:08 PM
Rule #1 is definitely "Be visible" in my book.
What do you think of using an H.I.D. headlight, or better yet, an H.I.D. helmet light? They're definitely daytime-visible. Approaching an intersection where a vehicle is waiting to pull out, all you would need to do is turn your head and look directly at them for a moment.
Motorist: :eek: ~ whoa, what the heck is THAT?! (keeps foot on brake pedal)
The sheer non-normality of something approaching at half the speed of a motor vehicle and featuring a swivelling H.I.D. light should get that reaction. Actually, even my 15W halogen helmet light had an incredible punch because it was very focused.
Something to think about, anyway.
stinkyonions
07-07-03, 10:50 AM
im just thinking about mounting a huge water cannon on my handlebars. hopefully their windows will be open when they aren't looking either.
I realize that this is the opposite of the thread title, but yesterday I had a guy flip a U-turn right in front of me (posted about this in "How was the commute today?"), and he admitted that he did see me. "I saw you way back there!"
(Well, no kidding. And now I'm here and you negligently pulled your car right into my path and I had to lock up both wheels to avoid a collision, Jerk.)
Now that I've cooled off a bit about it, I'm realizing that most motorists can't properly judge the speed and distances. This is in addition to when they don't see us at all. Something to consider and one more reason to ride as if you're invisible. It's still his fault and he's still a jerk but maybe next time he'll think about how fast a bike can go.
(Probably not.)
Chris L
07-10-03, 09:32 PM
This is why when I'm riding in traffic I always favour cadence over power, and push a slightly smaller gear and spin the pedals faster. I find that drivers tend to assume I'm travelling faster when I do that (even if it isn't necessarily the case).
khuon
07-10-03, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Chris L
This is why when I'm riding in traffic I always favour cadence over power, and push a slightly smaller gear and spin the pedals faster. I find that drivers tend to assume I'm travelling faster when I do that (even if it isn't necessarily the case).
It's interesting you should mention that because I also find that if I'm tucked into the drops or have my rear end hanging way back in an aero-descent position (even if I'm just on the flats) then I tend to get cut off less. If I'm on the tops and fairly upright, I could be going 20MPH and still get cut off more.
stinkyonions
07-11-03, 06:33 PM
khuon,
maybe a water cannon that is camelbak-able. or just have that follow behind me as my "roadside assistance" team. im debating on carrying a small disposable camera now for hairy situations so i don't threatened again.
trappermark
07-12-03, 06:14 AM
While I agree that, in the post that started this thread, the woman would have been negligent had she actually hit the rider...no one has said that at least she was willing to apologize and talk about it and learn from it. For me, that would be rather satisfying, since most drivers who have cut me off have tried to pretend that it didn't happen.
mark
t
mechBgon
07-12-03, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Chris L
This is why when I'm riding in traffic I always favour cadence over power, and push a slightly smaller gear and spin the pedals faster. I find that drivers tend to assume I'm travelling faster when I do that (even if it isn't necessarily the case). I tend to favor power over cadence, but I know exactly what you mean. If I see a motorist who might be tempted to pull out in front of me, I'll send them the right "I'm-going-fast" body-language signal by rising up in the saddle a bit and rocking my bike as I pedal, as if sprinting.
Allister
07-17-03, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by trappermark
... most drivers who have cut me off have tried to pretend that it didn't happen.
t
Lucky! Drivers that cut me off somehow get it into their heads that it's my fault and hurl abuse at ME. F*uckwits.
Allister
07-17-03, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by mechBgon
I tend to favor power over cadence, but I know exactly what you mean. If I see a motorist who might be tempted to pull out in front of me, I'll send them the right "I'm-going-fast" body-language signal by rising up in the saddle a bit and rocking my bike as I pedal, as if sprinting.
I tend to move further into the lane, traffic permitting. This a) gets me more into their line of site, and b) gives me more options in avoiding them if they do pull out. If it's too close for that or there's too much traffic in the lane I slow down until I know for sure what they're doing. Pre-emptive braking has helped me avoid more crashes than I care to think about.
I do the same thing with the twits that try the left hook or overtake in a roundabout (something I loathe more than just about anything motorists do on the road). When I see them trying this I push into the lane until they get the massage. More often than not they back off.
Stor Mand
07-20-03, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by MsVicki
Years ago I was driving a pick-up truck (fancy that) and was stopped at a stop sign in town. I looked both ways...no one was coming. I pulled out...almost ran over a man on a motorcycle! I wasn't in a min-van, I wasn't talking on a cell phone, I wasn't distracted by kids or music or anything else, I simply DID NOT SEE that man and that motorcycle.
...snipping
Happens to the best of us.
Originally posted by FOG
Does the phrase "frivolous litigation" ring a bell? There is no cause of action here because there was no harm. Had there been harm, then there might be a cause of action, her statement would have been an admission, and admissible as evidence.
Thank you.
ITALIA
07-21-03, 08:56 PM
Thank god he survived the accident.
For those who think HELMETS are stupied, think again. Someone was certainly looking out for this guy.. Paul. He also stated, "she" didn't see him.