Mountain Biking - What is XC riding?

Is XC on a track or doing things like stairs or abusive stuff?

Depends on where/what your trails are like. One mans XC may be another mans DH. Or vice versa.

Generally though, I think most riders tend to think of XC as along the lines of your first definition. Or define it more broadly: an XC ride is any ride when you are riding your bike on some sort of trail across varied terrain. :)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f12/scrublover/misc/5-15-2007024.jpg

Someone else asked the same question a while ago, so I'd doing a search for a more comprehensive answer, but what scrublover said is right because I would rate his picture as AM (all mountain riding).

Another thing to note, people also have different ratings. For example, scrublover may not recognize AM as a type of riding at all.

I base my ratings on the categories of forks available on rockshox.com (which are XC, AM, FR, DH done in terms of fork travel), but there are trillions of ways to do it. However, I think most people would agree that XC is off-road and this, not stairs. I would call stairs urban-trials, but others would not agree.

generally in my point on view , XC is stuff like single lane trails, rock gardens, 2-4 foot drops and jumps, some steep sections, and most of all, hill climbs.

oh my god dude, you've TOTALLY botched your marketing jargon here. your like SOO all mountain riding dude...

you can't XC ride in baggy shorts! everybody knows that!

Is XC on a track or doing things like stairs or abusive stuff?

XC is cross country. Start at point A, go to point B, maybe go to point C, and possibly come back to piont A. You pedal. Up, down, over, through. If you happen to use a shuttle from point C back to point A, it's still XC. If there happens to be some stairs along the way, it's still XC. If it happens to involve some concrete or road ways to get from one side of a creek to another, it's still XC. If it happens to be in the middle of a metro area along a creek, it's still XC. If you happen to go to a ski area, pedal your bike to the top of the mountain and then enjoy the downhill back to the car, it's still XC.

However, if you go the the skate park and spend the whole day annoying the skate boarders or go to somewhere and spend the whole day riding down and up the stairs without going somewhere, that's not XC. Or if you spend the whole day riding up a lift to the top of the mountain so that you can ride down it, that's not XC either. Those can be fun but they're not XC.

XC is cross country. Start at point A, go to point B, maybe go to point C, and possibly come back to piont A. You pedal. Up, down, over, through. If you happen to use a shuttle from point C back to point A, it's still XC. If there happens to be some stairs along the way, it's still XC. If it happens to involve some concrete or road ways to get from one side of a creek to another, it's still XC. If it happens to be in the middle of a metro area along a creek, it's still XC. If you happen to go to a ski area, pedal your bike to the top of the mountain and then enjoy the downhill back to the car, it's still XC.
As usual, you pretty much nailed it. I have an aversion to shuttling, but I suppose if there's 50km of highway between the start and finish, it's probably a good idea.


However, if you go the the skate park and spend the whole day annoying the skate boarders or go to somewhere and spend the whole day riding down and up the stairs without going somewhere, that's not XC. Or if you spend the whole day riding up a lift to the top of the mountain so that you can ride down it, that's not XC either. Those can be fun but they're not XC.
This is epidemic at our local skate park. Guys show up on their Stinky Deeluxe or VPFree with full armour and tool around doing doubles and 6' to flat drops, completely impressed with themselves. :rolleyes: Of course, they are somehow oblivious to the BMX and skate folks doing exactly the same drops without 8"+ suspension, but throwing in a kickflip or 360 for good measure. Oi!

very good question. I am listning....

As usual, you pretty much nailed it. I have an aversion to shuttling, but I suppose if there's 50km of highway between the start and finish, it's probably a good idea.



As a general rule, I don't shuttle. I think, I've only done it once or twice in 20 years of mountain biking. I did it once when I had a ride that was 50 miles of single track along the Colorado Trail and once last summer when I did the Hermosa Creek Trail in Durango with my daughter. Otherwise, I figure if I'm going to do it, I'm going to ride it.;)

One other beef I have with classifications...if I cared about racing...is the way in which XC races are done now. Ten laps of a closed 3 mile course is a criterium. It's not an XC race. It's more like a NASCAR event...ugh! If you're going to hold XC races make 'em XC. 50 miles of point to point. If Cindy Whitehead can do 50 miles of racing...and win...without a saddle on a rigid bike, why can't people now do the same races on their Unobtainium bikes?

One other beef I have with classifications...if I cared about racing...is the way in which XC races are done now. Ten laps of a closed 3 mile course is a criterium. It's not an XC race. It's more like a NASCAR event...ugh! If you're going to hold XC races make 'em XC. 50 miles of point to point. If Cindy Whitehead can do 50 miles of racing...and win...without a saddle on a rigid bike, why can't people now do the same races on their Unobtainium bikes?


great observation.......I feel like the mountain is quickly fading away from mountain biking.......too much armor...too much lycra...to much logos...to much look-at-me-I-am-so-cool.......

I mountain bike to go away from all of this self indulgent narcissism......

As a general rule, I don't shuttle. I think, I've only done it once or twice in 20 years of mountain biking. I did it once when I had a ride that was 50 miles of single track along the Colorado Trail and once last summer when I did the Hermosa Creek Trail in Durango with my daughter. Otherwise, I figure if I'm going to do it, I'm going to ride it.;)

So...besides the two rides you've noted, every one of your rides in that time period left from your front door? Or is driving to the trailhead somehow not shuttling?

great observation.......I feel like the mountain is quickly fading away from mountain biking.......too much armor...too much lycra...to much logos...to much look-at-me-I-am-so-cool.......

I mountain bike to go away from all of this self indulgent narcissism......

I do it to get away from those who complain about what others are wearing and somehow allow it to affect their experience.

I do it to get away from those who complain about what others are wearing and somehow allow it to affect their experience.


you are a superior human being......

you are a superior human being......

You should see gastro ride!

So...besides the two rides you've noted, every one of your rides in that time period left from your front door? Or is driving to the trailhead somehow not shuttling?

Let's not be too literal, okay? You know what is meant by shuttling..."I'll take my car and park it down here and we'll take your car and the bikes back up there and ride back to my car. Then we'll take my car back up and get yours" shuttling. I generally don't engage in it because it a royal pain in the kiester, especially if you have several people.

If you only ride from your front door, your options are usually pretty limited...or will be after a very short time.

Thanks for the explaination. I guess I was thinking of BMX when I said course riding. So XC is harder stuff than just trail riding which can be pretty flat and unchallenging.

So XC is harder stuff than just trail riding which can be pretty flat and unchallenging.

I wouldn't describe the trail riding out my way as flat and unchallenging. And like others have alluded to in this thread, riding disciplines/divisions can vary depending on where you are, as well as the attitude towards any given trail.

Thanks for the explaination. I guess I was thinking of BMX when I said course riding. So XC is harder stuff than just trail riding which can be pretty flat and unchallenging.

I think you're trying to put to fine a point on it. Personally, I think there's too much division within mountain biking already. The equipment manufactures want to break it up into all these little niches so they can sell more stuff. But, honestly, each artificial division contains elements of the others. Downhillers still have gears because they occassionally have to pedal up a hill...poor bastards:D XCer's have shocks because they occasionally have to go down something steep and rocky. Everything else in between is just different shade of gray. Except maybe the numbskulls who throw themselves off cliffs...those guys are in a whole different world;)

As for trails being flat and unchallenging, any trail can be made challenging. All you need is speed. A flat twisty trail through the woods can be challenging as hell when done at 20 mph:eek: Especially if it has lots of nice limbo sticks.

you can't XC ride in baggy shorts! everybody knows that!
Crud. Now I have to either buy different shorts or a different bike.

Let's not be too literal, okay? You know what is meant by shuttling..."I'll take my car and park it down here and we'll take your car and the bikes back up there and ride back to my car. Then we'll take my car back up and get yours" shuttling.

I don't think the distinction is as cut and dried as you'd like to make it. An afternoon ride I recently went on with some friends went like this: Leave vehicle in lower lot, drive bikes and riders to top of ridge. Drop in, descend trail 1 to lower vehicle. Pedal back up road until trail 2 turns off. Ascend trail 2 all the way back to upper vehicle at initial drop in point. From there, descend trail 3 to point below lower vehicle. Climb back up to lower vehicle. Drive up to top of ridge and retrieve upper vehicle. Total ride time about 4 hours, including a couple thousand vertical feet of climbing. Is that a "shuttle" (with the term's attendant negative connotations) or merely a harmless "point to point?"


I generally don't engage in it because it a royal pain in the kiester, especially if you have several people.

Hardly. It just takes some planning, namely some strategically placed cool beverages in the lower vehicle. They make the wait for upper vehicle retrieval much more enjoyable.

And finally, an open question to those who categorically abhor any sort of vehicular asssistance on their rides, e.g. pinkrobe et al: Is the scenario I just described somehow less valid than a ride where I drive an hour to somewhere and do an out and back of the same duration with the same amount of climbing?

Thanks for the explaination. I guess I was thinking of BMX when I said course riding. So XC is harder stuff than just trail riding which can be pretty flat and unchallenging.

well it depends where you live. if you live in central ohio, that is what most of the parks and stuff will be like, since there is no hills or any remote forms of rocks formations. i go to school on OH

however in PA, only 400 miles away, i have a ton of different parks and trails with great terrain that i could probably ride for 5 more years and not master.

You should see gastro ride!

If he had, he would certainly withdraw his allegation of my humanity.

If he had, he would certainly withdraw his allegation of my humanity.

No kidding...because no human can ride like that! :)

I don't think the distinction is as cut and dried as you'd like to make it. An afternoon ride I recently went on with some friends went like this: Leave vehicle in lower lot, drive bikes and riders to top of ridge. Drop in, descend trail 1 to lower vehicle. Pedal back up road until trail 2 turns off. Ascend trail 2 all the way back to upper vehicle at initial drop in point. From there, descend trail 3 to point below lower vehicle. Climb back up to lower vehicle. Drive up to top of ridge and retrieve upper vehicle. Total ride time about 4 hours, including a couple thousand vertical feet of climbing. Is that a "shuttle" (with the term's attendant negative connotations) or merely a harmless "point to point?"

I never said there was anything wrong with doing shuttling nor do I think that driving your vehicle to the trailhead is wrong. We all have lives and don't necessarily have a lot of extra time to spend riding our bikes to the start of a ride. That's a whole other logistical nightmare. I'm all for reducing my automobile usage but I'm not going to get rid of it.

If it were me, I would have done your ride by driving to the lower vehicle point, riding up and around all the loops and then coming back to my car. I never end with a climb. It violates Stuart's First Principle of Most Excellent Bicycle Riding: "Never end on an uphill." I only have one ride that violates that principle and if it didn't have lots of cool stuff at the bottom of the canyon to look at, I wouldn't do it;)

But I'm not the carfree police. However you want to do your ride is your business. As long as you are riding and having fun, why is it any of my concern?


And finally, an open question to those who categorically abhor any sort of vehicular asssistance on their rides, e.g. pinkrobe et al: Is the scenario I just described somehow less valid than a ride where I drive an hour to somewhere and do an out and back of the same duration with the same amount of climbing?

You're the only one that can answer that. You make your own rules...we all do. I don't measure how you ride by my rules nor do I expect you to measure me by yours. I'm sure Pete will be along soon to tell us all how we are supposed to ride but he's a jerk and I don't give a gnat's ass what he thinks.

I ride for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it to hurt myself. Sometimes it to see things. Sometimes it's both. About the only thing I'm not going to do is throw myself off cliffs. I admire people who do...I think they are batsh!t crazy but I admire them. But I've had my quota of broken bones and my wife told me that if I bring home one more cast, she was going to divorce me.:D

Hmmm...you "don't care" yet you feel the need to mention me. Interesting, and quite telling.

You're making sh|t up Stuart. I have never told folks how they are supposed to ride. However, I have refuted/commented/laughed at a number of outrageous claims that you have made about riding, equipment, etc.

I'll continue to do that because your wackiness is really amusing at times.

quotation mark: a punctuation mark used to attribute the enclosed text to someone else
refer to for illustration or proof.

I did not say "...don't care". I said "I don't give a gnat's ass what [you] think...".

To me, XC riding is real mountain biking. Up hills, down hills, over stumps, rocks and logs, singletrack, corners. Basically, anything goes.

Funny, my DH race on Sunday felt just as real as the trail ride I went on the Wednesday before . . .

xc is when you bike cross the country

And finally, an open question to those who categorically abhor any sort of vehicular asssistance on their rides, e.g. pinkrobe et al: Is the scenario I just described somehow less valid than a ride where I drive an hour to somewhere and do an out and back of the same duration with the same amount of climbing?
It's more of a hybrid type ride

I don't know the exact spot where you are riding but I would ask you 2 questions that would help me in my analysis;

1. Was the last car ride to the ridge specifically to avoid any further climbing or was it a concession made due to time constraints?
2. How mush vertical did you erase by driving car 1 to car 2?


Validity of Ride (VR) = (Total Time (TT) *(elevation gain (EG)/elevation lost (EL))/((cumulative vertical(CV) * Plancks Constant (h))

edit: what is negative about shuttling?

I like riding bikes.

Validity of Ride (VR) = (Total Time (TT) *(elevation gain (EG)/elevation lost (EL))/((cumulative vertical(CV) * Plancks Constant (h))Looks like one of those crazy RPI formulas for NCAA basketball :rolleyes:

I like riding bikes.
I like tater tots.

Who cares (not talking about the tater tots)!

I hope you guys don't really obsess this much about what type of riding you're doing at any given moment. That would certainly spoil the fun.

^ it's all in jest. it's all marketing BS

As soon as I realized that I am a lesser human being than gastro and even lesser rider....I went out for riding the closed trail i could find...

Rode for 3 hours and I feel a lot better...still lesser, but lot better...

did not really care what the trail was...XC...FR....DH...TRAIL...AM...

just rode.....had lots of fun......and finally realized how wonderful it feels to be on a bike and enjoying the mountains....does not matter what category I am riding...

okay...now...back to the real world of bike forums adventure.....you guys have an interesting thing going.....cool...

I am just waiting to jump in with my opinionated rants...

Who cares (not talking about the tater tots)!

I hope you guys don't really obsess this much about what type of riding you're doing at any given moment. That would certainly spoil the fun.

As I ride I consistently worry if what I am doing will constitute a ride or a big dump. If it equals a big dump I sit on the side of road waiting for my shuttle to pick up my bike and make me walk home. Its all I really think about.

My take,

I ride
I have fun
I don't take pictures
I don't want babies
I shuttle, I hike a bike and sometimes even ride up. I guess to some people I don't ride
But guess what, **** off, I don't care.

Cheers and have a wonderful day, and please anyone who dislikes shuttling, come and do 7 days of 20 runs a day and claim it isn't physically exhausting, betcha those shoulders will expands a half an inch while you are here.

Speaking of dumps...:D

did not really care what the trail was...XC...FR....DH...TRAIL...AM...



Funny thing, I was talking with an old school whistler rider, Roughed in most of the trails since the early 80s. I told him the trails I ride and what they are considered by the new kids on the block. He promptly put me in my place by riding the entire thing on his single speed (imagine old videos like kranked 1 where its was more like watching trials and technical riding on really techy single track). He doesnt understand what is freeride. (ok...except for slopestyle and skate park stuff)

All that said, in the fun of the moment, he will still borrow my bike so he can really rip. the only difference, instead of nose first on steeps he would drop them.

In the end, we both ride, he destroys me (and most of BC) uphill and can rip downhill. In all cases, hes riding. I took that lesson with me a while back.

Validity of Ride (VR) = (Total Time (TT) *(elevation gain (EG)/elevation lost (EL))/((cumulative vertical(CV) * Plancks Constant (h))

You forgot the multiplier for technical difficulty. :D

. . . was more like watching trials and technical riding on really techy single track . . .You wouldn't believe the whining that went on this weekend because I included an extra lower-speed drop into the race course. It was like because they had to brake-check and push down into it instead of being able to hit it at mach speed it had no business being part of the course. Sheesh!

You wouldn't believe the whining that went on this weekend because I included an extra lower-speed drop into the race course. It was like because they had to brake-check and push down into it instead of being able to hit it at mach speed it had no business being part of the course. Sheesh!

Really seperates the men from the boys :)

I rode mtn bikes in the mid 90s when it was just mtn biking. I started again about in 2004 and was flabergasted that mtn biking didn't seem to exist any more, it had been replaced by a bunch of flashy buzzwords. Seems like some of this stuff was less important when everyone had quick release seatpost binders. It was like, with a flip of a switch my XC ride just became a DH ride, SWEET.

Marketeers love to see something divided up, here is my best guess at how the pie is carved up.

XC: Well maintained, mostly smooth, flowing, fast, climbing, decending little technical challenge 0 to 4 inches of travel. Marketed to weight weenies who want to go fast and stuff.

Trail: Rougher trails, the occasional drop, not as fast, somewhat technical riding. 4 to 5 inches of travel. Marketed to dudes who want to go out and ride bikes on trails.

AM: Even rougher trails, drops, climbing, less fast, technical riding. Basically a dh bike that can still go up. 6 inches of travel. Marketed to dudes who want to be totally rad and do it all on the mountain.

DH: Very fast, very rough, lots of everyting, 6+ inches of travel. Marketed to dudes who can't afford a motorcycle.

FR: I don't know, just screwing around on a bike I guess, I haven't been able to really pin this one down. Marketed to dude who want to screw around on a bike.

Oh yeah and don't forget, Urban Assult and DJ and probably ten other niches that get their own bike.

I mtnbike. If it's a long saturday morning ride from my front door or a afternoon ride with Gastro that has a shuttle involved. Someone else can come up with what category to put it in. I also care what Pete thinks of me. I hope he thinks I'm really cool and becuse I hang out with Gastro from time to time.

bunch of flashy buzzwords.
:beer:



DH: Very fast, very rough, lots of everyting, 6+ inches of travel. Marketed to dudes who can't afford a motorcycle.
Silly.

:beer:



Silly.

I think/hope, with the tone of the rest of his post (marketted to .... ) that it was just sarcasm :D

Does it matter?

Funny how a simple question can turn into a multiple paged BS spewing thread.
P.s.. i forgot to place a "lol" in there.:)

I think/hope, with the tone of the rest of his post (marketted to .... ) that it was just sarcasm :D
:lol:

Does it matter?

It matters to the well being of all of us who exist. Its on par with "does god like peanut butter" and "does jesus eat meat"

"does jesus eat meat"
(Inquiring minds want to know>Does he? :)

(imagine old videos like kranked 1 where its was more like watching trials and technical riding on really techy single track).
In the end, we both ride...

mmmmm yeah, that's the stuff i like! high speed is good, but tight/twisty/hard techy stuff just rocks!

my favourite trails are those that have anice blend of the two.