Bicycle Mechanics - Torqueing cassette lock ring

I'll be installing a Shimano cassette on my new wheels, and I see that the Park instructions call for torqueing the lock ring to 40 Nm, which is ~30 lb-ft. Since they show you using an open-end wrench on the lock-ring tool, and it looks like it might be difficult to find a way to actually use a torque wrench, can I assume that you just need to reef this guy down pretty tight?

I go with "good and tight" and I've yet to have one come loose

If you want to use a torque wrench just get a socket that fits over the lock ring tool.

I go with "good and tight" and I've yet to have one come loose

+1. You do it enough times you'll know the feel.

I have a variety of torque wrenches at home that i use with regularity on my bike. However that's only because i use them with regularity on my car. :D

I think the Shimano lockring tool accepts a 3/8" socket drive. Or maybe I slipped a 25mm socket around the whole lockring tool and torqued it that way? Either way, I somehow got a torque wrench on that thing. But yeah "good and tight" works nicely too.

At my age 30 foot pounds seems like a lot of torque. In my younger days it would have been pretty moderate. However, I still appreciate "good and tight".

Al

The Lifu tool takes a 1/2" drive. (I really like the guide pin on them too.) Not often sold under the Lifu name, but I recommend it. Nice long 1/2" drive wrench is easier to wield.

I use a torque wrench on my lockrings. I fouind if I didn't get them tight enough I would have shifting problems. If you tighten to tight you run the risk of stripping or stretching the threads.

I just installed my first HG cassette. I don't have a socket large enough for the tool so was not able to use my torque wrench yet; I just used a large crescent wrench and tightened it a few turns.

I didn't want to overtighten or strip it - is it normal to hear a lot of clicking as you tighten? and I 've not yet test ridden - will it loosen rapidly if I've not tightened it on sufficiently?

Finally I do plan on getting the socket to fit the lockring tool; just wanna make sure I didn't do anything wrong - those clicks were freaky sounding.....like the sound a ratchet driver makes.

The clicks are normal. It's Shimano's way of 'locking in' in the lockring. Even with a 1/2" torque wrench it's difficult to over-tighten these.

At my age 30 foot pounds seems like a lot of torque. In my younger days it would have been pretty moderate. However, I still appreciate "good and tight".

I think so too.

I just installed my first HG cassette. I don't have a socket large enough for the tool so was not able to use my torque wrench yet; I just used a large crescent wrench and tightened it a few turns.

I didn't want to overtighten or strip it - is it normal to hear a lot of clicking as you tighten? and I 've not yet test ridden - will it loosen rapidly if I've not tightened it on sufficiently?

Finally I do plan on getting the socket to fit the lockring tool; just wanna make sure I didn't do anything wrong - those clicks were freaky sounding.....like the sound a ratchet driver makes.

I got a cheap Sears sparkplug socket (1 inch size) to fit my Campagnolo cassette tool (http://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/product/parts_accessories/cassette_tools/TL_PARK_BBT5.html). It's deep enough to fit over the tool and the quick release nut. They have Craftsman and also a cheaper line of sockets, this one was around 3 or 4 dollars. I already had a 1/2 inch torque wrench for my car wheels.

I found out the hard way that the tool needs to be held in place by a quick release skewer. Mine pulled out and stripped some of the splines on the tool. It's actually hard to tell the clicks of the lockring apart from the torque wrench clicks. So I would apply pressure on the torque wrench, then back off the pressure and listen for the "back click" from the torque wrench.

thanks guys

I got the park tool with the guide pin but kinda wish i'd chosen the one with hollow all the way through and used with a QR.

I have to get the proper size socket (all my old spark pluggers were too small - tried em already;)) but good to know the clicking is normal.:)

I just installed my first HG cassette. I don't have a socket large enough for the tool so was not able to use my torque wrench yet; I just used a large crescent wrench and tightened it a few turns.

I didn't want to overtighten or strip it - is it normal to hear a lot of clicking as you tighten? and I 've not yet test ridden - will it loosen rapidly if I've not tightened it on sufficiently?

Finally I do plan on getting the socket to fit the lockring tool; just wanna make sure I didn't do anything wrong - those clicks were freaky sounding.....like the sound a ratchet driver makes.

It does sound scary - there are ratchet teeth on the lockring, to make sure it won't back off. So even if you under-torqued (unless you really wanted to), there's no way that thing is coming off on its own. First couple of times you put one on, it feels like you're really breaking something. But don't let that sound stop you from properly torquing it in, if not tight enough the cogs may not be fully seated, bringing associated shifting issues.

+1 on the lock ring tool with a pin. Agreed, do it a few times and you'll know where good and tight is. I have plenty of torque tools from back in the day when I was an auto mechanic, yet lockrings always go on by feel. It's pretty hard to mess up the install.

+1 on the lock ring tool with a pin. Agreed, do it a few times and you'll know where good and tight is. I have plenty of torque tools from back in the day when I was an auto mechanic, yet lockrings always go on by feel. It's pretty hard to mess up the install.
I've only installed one twice. The first time I went "good and tight", but it came off pretty easy when I removed it. So when I reinstalled it I stepped it up a notch to "pretty damn tight" but stopped short of "really tight".

I don't want to start a torque wrench vs. "feel" war, but I tend to agree with capwater. With the stop and go action when tightening a lockring, I'd trust my feel before a torque wrench, unless I really had no feel whatsoever for tightening threaded fasteners.

I've only installed one twice. The first time I went "good and tight", but it came off pretty easy when I removed it. So when I reinstalled it I stepped it up a notch to "pretty damn tight" but stopped short of "really tight".


Pretty subjective stuff. I'm not sure if Bobo the gorilla mechanic and my skrawny little niece can agree on "pretty damn tight".:D

Whenever someone tells me that their Campagnolo shifting is off and they just can't seem to get it right, I remove the rear wheel and check the lockring. I am amazed at how loose some of these are. I torque them down to spec, re-install the wheels, and lo and behold, the shifting problem has miraculously disappeared. This is more a Campagnolo thing than a Shimano thing, I will admit, but in this instance, a torque wrench is pretty useful. I'll tell you one thing. Every time I install a Campagnolo cassette, I marvel at just how tight they really are supposed to be.

I don't suggest that everyone immediately run out and buy themselves a torque wrench for the dozen or so times a year they will probably use it, but, if you already have one put it to good use here. it REALLY does make a difference in this application.

Whenever someone tells me that their Campagnolo shifting is off and they just can't seem to get it right, I remove the rear wheel and check the lockring. I am amazed at how loose some of these are. I torque them down to spec, re-install the wheels, and lo and behold, the shifting problem has miraculously disappeared. This is more a Campagnolo thing than a Shimano thing, I will admit, but in this instance, a torque wrench is pretty useful. I'll tell you one thing. Every time I install a Campagnolo cassette, I marvel at just how tight they really are supposed to be.

Interesting, but pretty accurate. I have never had anyone have a loose Shimano lockring, but the few I have encountered have been my Campy mates.

Interesting, but pretty accurate. I have never had anyone have a loose Shimano lockring, but the few I have encountered have been my Campy mates.

By loose I don't mean rattling around and about to fall of, I mean they feel like they were put on hand tight.

By loose I don't mean rattling around and about to fall off, I mean they feel like they were put on hand tight.

The other day on my commute I did my usual Good Samaritan stop when I saw this older gentleman walking his Bianchi. He told me that he couldn't pedal any more because the smallest cog had apparently broken off and jammed against the frame. He had never seen anything like it.

Me neither - so I bent down to take a look and sure enough, his Shimano lock ring (which I guess sort of looks like a teeny little cog) had come all the way off and had wedged itself so that the wheel could barely turn.

I didn't have my freewheel tool with me (an obvious oversight), so I put it on for him finger tight and told him where the nearest shop was. It must have been installed so loose that it never engaged the ratchets. Otherwise I can't explain how it could back all the way out like that...and to make it even weirder, he said he hadn't changed the cassette since he bought it new.

p.s. I think you're being paged, Mr. Dopolina. Mr. Bob Dopolina.

well, I got a 1" socket today and gave the cassette lockring an extra turn with the torque wrench - turns out I was at about 40 ft lbs (the Park tool website says 360 inch pounds - this means 30 ft. no?)

Is 40 ft lbs. too tight? did i mess up?

Oddly I never felt it getting 'tight' - it just went from smoothly spinning to that ratcheting sound. It seems tight enough on there.

Yes, 40 ft-lb (480 in-lb) is too tight. Max is 434 in-lb. Back it off and re-torque.

30 ft-lb isn't easy to get. I'm surprised that you got 40 without thinking that it's real tight. If possible try a different wrench. Yours may be out of whack.

hmm....I got it easily - and I'm a weakling!:D

30 ft-lb == 40 Nm

Sure you're reading the right scale?

my wrench is in foot pounds - my wife read it at 40 as I applied pressure.

pgoat,

Whats with the comment regard Al whats his name and Eddie getting punched in the yap?

On the final stage of the TdF this year the Vs crew had Lance and Eddy in the broadcast tent (not at the same time, I believe), and Al asked Merckx about the 75 tour incident where he was punched in the kidney by a spectator, which many believe to have cost him the tour that year (the subsequent crash that broke his jaw/cheekbone certainly finished him off for that tour, and may have been what confused Al).

It wasn't a HUGE gaffe, but it was classic Al. The look on eddy's face was rather priceless ('what kind of buffoon have these Americans sent to cover the Tour?')

I don't expect everyone to have an encyclopedic memory of the tour, but those images of a shirtless merckx clutching his midsection in miserable defeat are pretty iconic in the world of road cycling. I've only seen a few pics of him with the facial injuries of his later crash.....it's as if Al did a quick study of crib notes on 'some old guy named Eddy Merckx' 5 minutes before interviewing him and then scrambled the facts together......kind of embarassing. I am assuming Bobke, Phil and Paul would have not made that mistake. I personally think anyone who would have should perhaps not be in that tent covering the TdF....just my 2 cents.

Phil might well have. He gets things wrong all the time — like people's names. You don't assume that it's because he doesn't know; you assume he mis-spoke. I prefer to give Al that same benefit of the doubt. I think he does extremely well. You don't even have to remember that he was hired as a professional announcer, not as a cycle sports expert.

I know what u mean - Phil Liggett is sort of the Phil Rizzuto of cycling; I kinda love it when he gets really revved up at the end of a stage and Paul has to correct him.

I understand that Al is there as a layman and anyone can make an honest mistake....I think it's just his tone. I find him arrogant and just too dang LOUD. It just seems wrong that the least informed person on air should get the most say......but that's true in many areas of life, no? go figure......

Loud? Next to Bobke? :eek:


:p

Loud? Next to Bobke? :eek:


:p

okay, bobke is loud - but hands aren't everything!:D

btw I loved the bobble head effects when each commentator would make their pre-stage predictions.

Yeah, I loved the stage where Phil got all worked up over Soler's win, stumbled over the name a few times and finally gave up and blurted out "I'm so excited I can't say his name!". LOL Murry Walker used to do that in F1. Harry Carrey used to do that too but I think in his case it was too much Budweiser.

Yeah, I loved the stage where Phil got all worked up over Soler's win, stumbled over the name a few times and finally gave up and blurted out "I'm so excited I can't say his name!". LOL Murry Walker used to do that in F1. Harry Carrey used to do that too but I think in his case it was too much Budweiser.

that was indeed great

It's like Paul Sherwen's vocal excitement level is just a hair below Phil's as he blurts out corrections.....sort of a yin & yang if u will......

quite a contrast in Phil screaming at the finish line and how calm and nearly catatonic he sometimes looks at the pre-game show - he usually sounds hoarse as well. I guess each stage takes a bit more out of him - just like the riders!

I'm not sure anyone got as wound up as Jackie Stewart announcing F1 when there was some great dice going. I miss him.

Trivia question: In what other (completely dissimilar) sport was Jackie considered World Class?

Trivia question: In what other (completely dissimilar) sport was Jackie considered World Class?

this will sound very stereotypical , but wasn't he a golfer?

Of course I could go look it up on wikipedia...............

actually, there's nothing on wiki or IMDB, either.......

Shooting. He missed the '64 GB Olympic team by one target, then retired from competition to take up motor racing. (There's more to the story, but I'm keeping it short.)

The Wee Scot is an interesting guy. One of the top 10 people I'd like to meet.

he was big big big in the 70s. I don't follow auto racing at all and he was definitely a household name and then some, which was something in the US considering we had our own household name racing families. I recall him doing a lot of commentary and also a ton of product endorsements.....very charismatic fella.

I go with "good and tight" and I've yet to have one come loose

that's what i do....and i tend to err on the side of too loose over too tight (according to the lbs tech).

i just bought a 3/8" torque wrench at menards...$6.99. i don't expect it to be precisely calibrated. however, as long as its in the ballpark, i'm fine with that.

Phil might well have. He gets things wrong all the time — like people's names. You don't assume that it's because he doesn't know; you assume he mis-spoke. I prefer to give Al that same benefit of the doubt. I think he does extremely well. You don't even have to remember that he was hired as a professional announcer, not as a cycle sports expert.


I should also mention - this year I splurged and bought the $17 Cycle Sport special mag for the 2007 TdF. It came with a nice little DVD on the history of the tour, hosted by Sean Kelly. Nice special features too, like a Paul Sherwen-led tour of the Eddy Merckx bike factory. I love how Merckx protectively puts his 1972 hour record track bike back in storage when Sherwen asks how much it's worth ("I won't sell it!") ....tho he does mention it would go to a museum eventually - I believe that bike is now on display in a Belgian subway station named after Eddy.

anyhoo, the producers of that dvd made a HUGE gaffe. During the section on Merckx and the 1970s, they end by going on and on about how Bernard Thevenet dethroned the cannibal....but they keep showing Luis Ocana while doing so. tsk tsk!

so, yes, anyone can make a mistake....and they often do

he was big big big in the 70s. I don't follow auto racing at all and he was definitely a household name and then some, which was something in the US considering we had our own household name racing families. I recall him doing a lot of commentary and also a ton of product endorsements.....very charismatic fella.

He also wrote Faster! - a very interesting book.

Phil Liggett is sort of the Phil Rizzuto of cycling.


no mo scooter.....but he left behind lots of fun memories......


"Uh-oh, deep to left-center, nobody's gonna get that one! Holy cow, somebody got it!"

"Bouncer to third, they'll never get him! No, why don't I just shut up!"

"All right! Stay fair! No, it won't stay fair. Good thing it didn't stay fair, or I think he would've caught it!"

"Oh, these Yankees can get the clutch hits, Murcer. I might have to go home early, I just got a cramp in my leg."

"Well, that kind of puts the damper on even a Yankee win." (He was still on the air, just after a game, when he heard that Pope Paul VI had just died. Esquire Magazine called that the "Holiest Cow of 1978.")

I was just wondering the other day what he would have thought of "The Bronx is Burning"...............

:( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Rizzuto#Broadcasting_career :(