Classic & Vintage - Help ID Antique Fixie

Well, first there was the '80 Raleigh Sports. Then there was the '71 Varsity. That was followed by the '40s or '50s Hercules. Now the local dump has deposited upon my doorstep a truly ancient mystery.

I believe this bike might be as old as the late 1890s, but I'm uncertain. This is just a guess based on pictures from the book Bicycle, by David V. Herlihy. This is what I can tell you: It has no saddle nor handlebars. No tires. No brakes. It is a fixed gear. One link in the chain has the number "797" stamped on it. There are no other marks on the bike except the number "101797" (although the 9 might be an 8) in the frame/headtube near the lower headset. Looking at the interesting radial spoke pattern shows most of the nipples on the hub, not at the rim, which I believe are designed for tubular tires (there are a few nipples next to the rim but I imagine these are replacements). Notice the foot rests on the front fork and the broken lacing on the chain guard. Another foot rest is on the frame near the left rear dropout. And finally notice the "drillium" on the BB. I haven't weighed it, but I imagine it tips 50+ lbs.

So, your guess is as good as mine. Any ideas? Know who I should contact? I'll be looking for a caring new home for this mystery so it's up for trade or other deal.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/AntiqueFixie.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Chain.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Chain797.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/SerialNumber.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/RearHubandDropout.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/FrontHub.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/ForkFootrests.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/HubOilPort.jpg

I can't tell you anything about it, except that I think it's beautiful.

Awesome find.

the skirt-guard seems to be all there, too!

It's an early "safety". Many were used by women who couldn't or wouldn't ride high wheelers. Men laughed at them, until the little ladies began out riding them on their vastly superior designed bikes. It's older than late 1890's. Could be from the mid to late 1880's. It's very primitive too, from before bikes were really standardized. In the late 1890's many bikes looked a lot like what we rode just a few years ago.
There were thousands of manufacturers during those years, and it could have been made by anyone. Do not paint it! Do not remove any parts. It's collectable, and possibly valuable.

Gotta be 1880's because it is built with the same technology used to build high wheek bicycles. In the
90's they began using brazed up tubes and lugs similar to what we all know and love. It's a great find.

quite a find, with as said, possible significant value, any evidence of a missing headbadge? A bike for a proper lady.

I would ask Larry Black, Mt Airy bicycles I think. Could also reference Copake auction history for other examples.

Bob, I'll bet somebody at the Smithsonian (http://americanhistory.si.edu/onthemove/themes/story_69_1.html) might be able to identify it, or at least narrow it down. The frame details are pretty distinctive.

What a treasure!

quite a find, with as said, possible significant value, any evidence of a missing headbadge? A bike for a proper lady.

I would ask Larry Black, Mt Airy bicycles I think. Could also reference Copake auction history for other examples.
It's possible it had a headbadge. There is some blemish in that area but no evidence of any threaded holes for screws.

1880s :eek: !!!! I can't believe some fool would toss that bike on the scrap metal heap. It was bad enough that I found the Hercules there, but a 120+/- year old bike!

I am in awe. Maybe I should put fork pegs on my fixie for coasting....

Wheels offset radial laced? And with hub mounted nipples? That's some modern tech there!

i know they said dont touch it, but you would be the coolest person evar riding that down the street resto'd.

i know they said dont touch it, but you would be the coolest person evar riding that down the street resto'd.
:rolleyes: I am certain--- I wouldn't fit on this bike. It's Easthill's size. :) But probably a little heavy for her liking.

wowie zowie!

that's all I have to say

oh my, that is an awesome find.

These people might be able to help ID it:
www.oldspokeshome.com

Total gaspipe. Or whaleoil pipe, as the case may be.

And who would put a BMX chaintensioner on a track end?

jim

very cool..

i think the chain among other things would date this safety bike as pretty early, before 1/8" bushing chain (patent 1880) became standarized... also perhaps it was made before pneumatic tires (1888) were de rigueur..

i think safety bikes first started showing up in the mid 1880s so i'd say anywhere from there to the mid 1890s...

try getting in touch with some guys from the wheelmen.. they specialize in the early stuff.. try their message board @
http://www.thewheelmen.org/forum/default.asp

Well, first there was the '80 Raleigh Sports. Then there was the '71 Varsity. That was followed by the '40s or '50s Hercules. Now the local dump has deposited upon my doorstep a truly ancient mystery.

I believe this bike might be as old as the late 1890s, but I'm uncertain. This is just a guess based on pictures from the book Bicycle, by David V. Herlihy. This is what I can tell you: It has no saddle nor handlebars. No tires. No brakes. It is a fixed gear. One link in the chain has the number "797" stamped on it. There are no other marks on the bike except the number "101797" (although the 9 might be an 8) in the frame/headtube near the lower headset. Looking at the interesting radial spoke pattern shows most of the nipples on the hub, not at the rim, which I believe are designed for tubular tires (there are a few nipples next to the rim but I imagine these are replacements). Notice the foot rests on the front fork and the broken lacing on the chain guard. Another foot rest is on the frame near the left rear dropout. And finally notice the "drillium" on the BB. I haven't weighed it, but I imagine it tips 50+ lbs.

So, your guess is as good as mine. Any ideas? Know who I should contact? I'll be looking for a caring new home for this mystery so it's up for trade or other deal.



I don't know exactly how old it is but what a find.:D The block chain and radially laced hubs mean that it is a very early saftey bike.

I want it but I live on the wrong side of the world.:rolleyes:

Hopefully you find out what type of saddle and handle bars it might have had. It would make a wonderfull restoration. Just imagine turning up to your next ride on it.

Thanks for all the comments and helpful links. I'll do more research and post what I find and what I end up doing.

That's an eye opener!? Whoa!! I can't imagine where it could have come from, that the owner didn't notice SOMETHING was unusual about it. Like I've said before, to some people, it's just an old bike. No matter how antique, or nicely made, or historic they might be. They see a little rust, or it's unusable, and it gets thrown out. I imagine this one came from a spring cleaning at an old barn, or someplace similar. NICE find!,,,,,BD

Can't tell from the rim profile but there looks to be too much frame clearance for solid tyres, possibly cushion tyres but probably very early pneumatics. I'm not familiar with American cycles though.

It is good to see a bike that actually belongs in a vintage forum.

Can't tell from the rim profile but there looks to be too much frame clearance for solid tyres, possibly cushion tyres but probably very early pneumatics. I'm not familiar with American cycles though.

It is good to see a bike that actually belongs in a vintage forum.
Thanks for your observation. My guess is pneumatics because there is a valve stem hole in each rim--- a big valve stem hole. It shows in one picture above, but here is a closeup. Notice the nippleless spokes.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/ValveHole.jpg

That was a five dollar bike new. It'll make good re-bar for a cement patio,it's new home,back in the ground.

I'd guess it's worth 15K to 20k in its current condition. Mana from Heaven, and you deserve it!

Dump find of the Century!

Could be an Antiques Roadshow item!

Thanks for your observation. My guess is pneumatics because there is a valve stem hole in each rim--- a big valve stem hole. It shows in one picture above, but here is a closeup. Notice the nippleless spokes.


Yes, I should have picked up the valve hole. Well, that dates it fairly well then and those dropouts should let you identify the manufacturer.

link us if you do post somewhere else !

That was a five dollar bike new. It'll make good re-bar for a cement patio,it's new home,back in the ground.
Is this some sort odd sense of humor? If so, I don't get it! :(

I'd guess it's worth 15K to 20k in its current condition. Mana from Heaven, and you deserve it! Dump find of the Century!
Maybe a great find, but I doubt if it is worth 1K maybe not more than .5K. But who the heck knows?

Could be an Antiques Roadshow item!
Now that would be fun!

Yes, I should have picked up the valve hole. Well, that dates it fairly well then and those dropouts should let you identify the manufacturer.
According to the book cited at the beginning of this post, pnuematic tires were developed by John Dunlop in Belfast in 1888.

That was a five dollar bike new. It'll make good re-bar for a cement patio,it's new home,back in the ground.

Uhhh, what?,,,,BD

Am I Correct In Assuming That The 'upper Skirt Guard' , Is A 'recent' , Addition ?

Great Find !

It Surely Reminds Us : 'one Man's Garbage , Is Another Man's Gold !'


Regards,
J T

I'd ask this gent: http://www.metzbicyclemuseum.com/
Happy and excited for your exceptional find! Thanks for sharing and please keep us updated.

Copake Auction responded to my email and said they were interested in this bike being sold in their next bike auction. They provided me with no other information. Has anyone had any experience doing this? Thanks.

Of course they want it for their auction. Charge you 20% to sell it, then the buyer pays anywhere from 10 to 18% for the privlige of buying it... That's $30 to $38 in their pocket for every $100 of gavel price.

Yes, buyers premiums piss me off!

That's a beauty, Pastor Bob. Did I hear someone say it was MY SIZE?

:roflmao:

I think the good Lord is smiling on you, and is most appreciative of your efforts to bring both joy and kindness to this forum. [I know I appreciate it, at least :D ]

East Hill

That's a beauty, Pastor Bob. Did I hear someone say it was MY SIZE?

:roflmao:

I think the good Lord is smiling on you, and is most appreciative of your efforts to bring both joy and kindness to this forum. [I know I appreciate it, at least :D ]

East Hill
A perfect fit--- but a real boat anchor!:rolleyes:

You say approximately 50 pounds, and that's without handlebars and a saddle! It would be a bit of a go heading up the local hills with that.

What a fascinating bike it would be to ride, though.

East Hill

Even my wife says WOW!

I'd hang it on my living room wall as is.

Excellent save Pastor Bob!

TJ

It's a real find. A genuine museum piece. It's from way, way back. There is something similar moldering away in the museum in Greenwich New Jersey. It's old, and should be preserved. DO NOT RESTORE IT! Something like this is only "original" one time. The skirt guard is original. It's old, OLD!

Have you made any attempt at finding the most recent owner? I am curious to know it's story. I also wonder if the local historical society could get involved with any research.

I am intensely curious about this bike. I think of it as a true steampunk invention (just missing the steam)! Maybe post to CR and oldroads to get some leads on the bike. If you plan to sell it, I would think e-bay is a good way to go, especially once you can write a knowledgeable ad and have the benefit of bike forums/CR/oldroads interest behind it. It's cooler than a '51 campy gran sport for sure!

I am 86 years old, but I can assure you that bike is way, way before my time.

Have you made any attempt at finding the most recent owner? I am curious to know it's story. I also wonder if the local historical society could get involved with any research.
In some way I feel a tad bit guilty about having found something that is so old. Obviously there is some history behind the bike such as, "This bike belonged to my great great grandmother." Or something along those lines. But I can't imagine anyone wanting to part with it under the condition I found it. Let me explain.

Like many New England towns we have something know as the "Stump Dump." Along with handling wood and compostables, they salvage scrap metal. Most of it goes into a big ferous pile while a smaller aluminum pile slowly grows, until one day a big crane comes and they haul it all away to be recycled. Here's a picture of the metal pile when I found the late '40s early 50's Hercules last fall:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Hercules/ThePile.jpg
The current pile as about double the size of the one in the picture. Near the pile is a shed and if the workers believe a bike is usable they place it in the shed hoping someone will give the bike a second chance.. The week before I found a Marin Muirwoods MTB in the shed. Here's the shed.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Hercules/Shed2.jpg
I found this antique safety bicycle up on the pile. I wonder if the handlebars are in the pile some place and if the owner took them off in order to fit the bike into the car? I looked for the bars but did not spot them.

The reason I tell you all this is that you have to be intentional about taking a bike to the srap pile. We can only do so on Sundays and Tuesdays. The rest of the week the gate is closed. Some one threw it out so they don't want it. I wish I knew why but I know I don't have time to call every residence in town.

Amazing, more than that but can't think of it.
Wow.
Let us know with all the details and any offers.

pastorbob,
I agree with you about not trying to find the old owner. There is no wiggle-room there, they didn't want it or know what it was and didn't care, they went out of their way to get rid of it and you saved it from the scrap heap. Good for you, I think you should have a completely clear conscience about selling it to a collector who will display it and love it. My suggestion is that all the money you get should be spent on bikes! And you should have a good time both selling the bike and learning about it and using the proceeds to build yourself something truly special.
I say the world's best dumpster dive should turn into a "bike of a lifetime" type of project.
Congrats and I will continue to watch your posts.
oh, and what would your "dream bike" be?
swen

True, he didn't want it because that person did not know what he was throwing away. Pastor Bob recovered it fair and square. And we all know he will give it a good home one way or another. From a historical standpoint for a potential museum piece such as this, it is a shame to loose 120 years of its story, even if 110 of those years were spent stacked in a barn. Not everyone realizes the interest and importance of seemingly trivial things like an old, rusty bicycle, especially one this old.

This bike is clearly from 797 A.D. according to the date code.

Road Fan

This bike is clearly from 797 A.D. according to the date code.

Road Fan
And the chain is clearly original since it is dated the same--- but could it be 797 B.C.E.? Now that would make it really old. :p

BTW, I'm going to head back to the dump today and look for the handlebars. My guess is that they were taken off for transportation to the dump and tossed on the pile seperately. I hope not much scrap metal came in yesterday and the bars weren't tossed to the very top (which must be 10-12 feet tall at this point). I also wich I knew exactly what to look for, i.e. straight, curved, dropped, etc.

WOW! I missed the start of this thread...the magic dump strikes again! I wanna dump like that:cry: But nobody deserves it more than Pastor Bob:D That is one awesome find. BTW the Herc is moving along slowly, still doing research to decide what tires are going to be the best and what is supposed to really be on it. 26x1-3/8" fit...but barely.

Aaron:)

Great find Pastorbob! I found this quote at the Pedaling History Bicycle Museum (http://www.pedalinghistory.com/default.html). It's a Susan B. Anthony bike!:D

The Pnuematic-Tired Safety

The pnuematic tire was first applied to the bicycle by an Irish veterinarian who was trying to give his young son a more comfortable ride on his tricycle. This inventive young doctor's name was Dunlop. Sound familar? Now that comfort and safety could be had in the same package, and that package was getting cheaper as manufacturing methods improved, everyone clamored to ride the bicycle. This 1898 Yale (http://www.pedalinghistory.com/Images/PHpneum.gif) uses a shaft drive to dispense with the dirty chain.

The bicycle was what made the Gay Ninties gay. It was a practical investment for the working man as transportation, and gave him a much greater flexibility for leisure. Ladies, heretofore consigned to riding the heavy adult size tricycles that were only practical for taking a turn around the park, now could ride a much more versatile machine and still keep their legs covered with long skirts. The bicycle craze killed the bustle and the corset, instituted "common-sense dressing" for women and increased their mobility considerably. In 1896 Susan B. Anthony said that "the bicycle has done more for the emancipation of women than anything else in the world."

Bicycling was so popular in the 1880s and 1890s that cyclists formed the League of American Wheelman (still in existence and now called the League of American Bicyclists). The League lobbied for better roads, literally paving the road for the automobile.

[QOUTE]The League lobbied for better roads, literally paving the road for the automobile.[/QUOTE]

bikes the original machines that ruint america!

Maybe we could get more to ride it the new all the damage they caused in the beginning...