Training & Nutrition - Question: Post Ride Nutrition?

Okay - so here's the deal. I do Weight Watchers. I've lost about 83 so far and would like to lose another 25. I've also started to train for my first century ride. On my long ride days (last Sunday I did 44 and am increasing 10% each week, so I'm on the bike for 2.5+hours), I'm starving within 60 minutes after finishing but what's also happening lately is I have "hungry days" for the next day or two. Before my ride, I usually have oatmeal, made with milk and some raisins. Now, about half-way through I'll have some peanut butter on a lite english muffin (high fiber) or a granola bar, and now that it's warm, usually some Gatorade in addition to water throughout. With WW you get "bonus points" for exercise which I do use on food (I ride to eat ;) ), but here's my conern, am I using them on the wrong things which is why I have those hungry days for the next day or two? (I'm assuming chocolate, wine, lasagna, may not be the best choices :D ).

So what should I eat after a long ride, simple carbs (e.g., pasta, potatoes, white rice, fruit)? Complex carbs (e.g., grains, whole wheat pasta, brown rice)? Protein (chicken, steak, fish)? A combo? Should I be having some healthy fats in there too?

Thanks for the help!

Eating lean protein, lots of veggies/fruit, and whole grains will do it - you need everything. You have to eat after a major exertion, there's no way around it.

You need to eat more for a couple of days afterwards too, as no one fully recovers from a major workout after the first night's rest. Eating lots of protein will give your body what it needs to repair muscles, and turn off your hunger more than carbs. Also, any lean protein you actually need for recovery/repair is a "freebie" food, i.e. you're not burning it/storing it as energy. Veggies cooked healthy, or salads with oil/vinegar dressings (and not too much) will also give you a lot of fullness and nutrition for the amount of calories. Whole grain foods also are more filling, and for longer as well as being healthier overall (vitamins, fiber). More, smaller meals also help keep you full without excess, and give your body energy and protein as it needs it throughout the day.

Beware of a) simple sugars, especially in huge concentrations - when you crash you lose your energy and your low blood sugar makes your body think it's starving b) huge concentrations of fat (cheesecake, chocolate, cheesy pizza, fried foods) c) processed foods, even processed carbs (white bread etc.), as these are less nutrient dense, and keep your stomach entertained for less time d) excess alcohol - sorry, I hate this too, but it interferes with recovery from exercise and is fattening

That's the best I can tell you. Others, more knowledgable, may chime in...

Okay - so here's the deal. I do Weight Watchers. I've lost about 83 so far and would like to lose another 25. I've also started to train for my first century ride. On my long ride days (last Sunday I did 44 and am increasing 10% each week, so I'm on the bike for 2.5+hours), I'm starving within 60 minutes after finishing but what's also happening lately is I have "hungry days" for the next day or two. Before my ride, I usually have oatmeal, made with milk and some raisins. Now, about half-way through I'll have some peanut butter on a lite english muffin (high fiber) or a granola bar, and now that it's warm, usually some Gatorade in addition to water throughout. With WW you get "bonus points" for exercise which I do use on food (I ride to eat ;) ), but here's my conern, am I using them on the wrong things which is why I have those hungry days for the next day or two? (I'm assuming chocolate, wine, lasagna, may not be the best choices :D ).

So what should I eat after a long ride, simple carbs (e.g., pasta, potatoes, white rice, fruit)? Complex carbs (e.g., grains, whole wheat pasta, brown rice)? Protein (chicken, steak, fish)? A combo? Should I be having some healthy fats in there too?

Thanks for the help!

white rice isnt a simple carb its a high gi complex carb there is a difference. you should get carb:protein in a 4:1-71 ratio after a hard rde with little fat. I suggest yogurt with fruit and honey or some cereal. or endurox but for you that mightbe drinking too many calories/points choc milk is very good for recovery. get something within 20 mins of the ride then you wont be hungry later.

Yeah, a 4:1 carb-protein mix appears to be the best ratio for post-ride nutrition. However, the total amount of calories should be adjusted based upon how much you actually burnt off during the ride (somewhere between 300-800 calories should do). High-GI carbs are best for rapid digestion and absorption into the muscles to resupply glycogen. If you don't get the stuff in quick enough, the body disassembles perfectly good muscle-tissue and converts it to glucose to replenish the glycogen supply (effectively undoing any benefits you may have gotten from the workout). The magical window is within the first 30-minutes of the ride or so when the glucose is sucked up into the muscles very quickly without even needing insulin. Then follow up with normal meal in a couple hours.

Seems like that what I may be doing wrong - I don't eat when I first get back but about an hour later. What are some examples of High-GI carbs. I don't mind drinking my calories/points if it tastes good (e.g., chocolate milk) but Husband keeps pushing his recovery drink, which I think is gross.

Thanks for the tips!

studies show that choc milk is just as good as commercial energy drinks. Keep it low fat though.

(I'm assuming chocolate, wine, lasagna, may not be the best choices ).Yeah, you're right.... Probably the biggest pitfall for so many, in so many cases, is just "falling into" eating a lot of junk, before we do any quality reloading.

Obviously, cool people have drinks and powders and whatever...... But realistically, if you could just force yourself to have some juice, milk, cereals, salads and vegetables as well as the "all-important" whole grain stuff like pasta, rice etc... BEFORE you do the pig out on ice cream, beer, cookies etc -you'll be fine........

Seems like that what I may be doing wrong - I don't eat when I first get back but about an hour later. What are some examples of High-GI carbs. I don't mind drinking my calories/points if it tastes good (e.g., chocolate milk) but Husband keeps pushing his recovery drink, which I think is gross.

Thanks for the tips!

You're likely getting appetite suppression from the ride, and if you can get the recovery food into you, you will find that the hunger spike is far smaller.

I'm a big fan of endurox (but only the orange flavor), but if the chocolate milk sits well for you, it's a pretty good choice.

It sounds to me like you are getting into the "I ate but I'm still hungry" situation. I used to have this a ton before starting the Endurox, but I don't get it any more. I did a hard 27 last night, had my endurox and a small burrito (no dinner before the ride), and that was enough. Or, to put it another way, with the recovery drink I can then make a decent decision about what you want rather than just eating what's around.

I'm a big fan of bagels along with a hydration drink. If you can eat on the bike (it's a learned skill - a "bento box" that is on top of the top tub helps), it's better to eat every half-an-hour or so rather than waiting or an hour - you want a slow trickle of food.

You might also want to make your husband get you a bunch of samples of different hydration drinks to see what you like (I like raspberry accelerade, but the preference is really personal). Gatorade has too much fructose and is too sweet, so you generally don't drink enough of it.

Oh, and congratulations on your progression. It sounds like you're on a good path to your century.

Eric, definitely appetite suppression. So here's an update, Saturday we did 50 miles, within thirty minutes of finishing, I had some egg beaters with ham on a lite English Muffin, then a bit later, a bunch of cherries. During the ride I had a quaker chewy bar, 1/2 a box of raisins and 1 serving of gatorade. Felt pretty good and wasn't starving all day yesterday. So I'm thinking that forcing the food down my throat definitely helped.

I'm not a big fan of the gatorade either - it definitely is too sweet. Though I bought 10 different flavors at the market and now we're in the midst of taste testing to see which ones I can tolerate. So far the Frost, Glacier Freeze flavor bothers me the least, but I'll check into some of the suggestions above.

So how long must your ride be before you have to do the eating within 30 minutes? Do I need to do that I'm my short rides (60 minutes or less) too?

Seems like that what I may be doing wrong - I don't eat when I first get back but about an hour later. What are some examples of High-GI carbs. I don't mind drinking my calories/points if it tastes good (e.g., chocolate milk) but Husband keeps pushing his recovery drink, which I think is gross.

Thanks for the tips!

Kimmer> there is a very narrow glycogen window after exercise. You should be eating/drinking something within minutes of getting off the bike. You replenish your glycogen supplies much more efficiently than all the eating throughout the day.
I have a yogurt and 1/2 OJ/H20 within 10 minutes of getting off the bike (before getting changed or bring it with me to the shower)

It helps lots.

Eric, definitely appetite suppression. So here's an update, Saturday we did 50 miles, within thirty minutes of finishing, I had some egg beaters with ham on a lite English Muffin, then a bit later, a bunch of cherries. During the ride I had a quaker chewy bar, 1/2 a box of raisins and 1 serving of gatorade. Felt pretty good and wasn't starving all day yesterday. So I'm thinking that forcing the food down my throat definitely helped.

I'm not a big fan of the gatorade either - it definitely is too sweet. Though I bought 10 different flavors at the market and now we're in the midst of taste testing to see which ones I can tolerate. So far the Frost, Glacier Freeze flavor bothers me the least, but I'll check into some of the suggestions above.

So how long must your ride be before you have to do the eating within 30 minutes? Do I need to do that I'm my short rides (60 minutes or less) too?

If you felt good and wasn't starving, then you are on the right track.

For me, my goal with the recovery nutrition is to keep my muscles from being too sore and to moderate my appetite. I don't typically do rides that are less than a couple of hours these days, but I'd be tempted to eat something right away even on rides of an hour long, but don't eat quite as much and then see how I felt afterwards.

Hope that helps.

basically after your ridei s the best time of the day to eat..

If I'm driving to a long ride, I bring a bottle with the endurox (chocolate- yum!) powder premeasured, and another bottle with water, and mix it up as soon as I get back to the car. If I don't drink that right away, I can count on being hungry all that day and the next.

Yeah, I finally figured out I was doing this all wrong, too, for the past year. Now, as soon as I get in the house, I chomp down on a handfull of dried apricots or dates, some nuts or sunflower seeds, and some wheat crackers. I wash it down with filtered water. Then I have some pasta with dinner. I have no idea if it's working for me.

Kimmer> there is a very narrow glycogen window after exercise. You should be eating/drinking something within minutes of getting off the bike. You replenish your glycogen supplies much more efficiently than all the eating throughout the day.
.


Actually, there are two windows . The first is within something like 30 minutes and the second is around two hours. The scheme is to keep the protein to no more than 1/4 the carbs and keep the fat very low to maximize the rate of muscle glycogen and blood sugar replenishment.

That said, the final word is not in yet as the research continues. Monique Ryan in her 2002 book states that consuming 0.5 to 0.7 grams carbs (fast burning carbs) per pound body weight within 30 minutes synthesized the carbs into glycogen 45% faster than at two hours. But glycogen uptake was still enhanced at two hours over anything later.

Her new edition will be at Amazon 4 June. It will be interesting to see what is new.

Al

... What are some examples of High-GI carbs. ...

A quick Google for glycemic index list gave this: http://www.mendosa.com/common_foods.htm

Hope this helps! There are much more detailed lists available, but it's a start.

Quick question: which is preferable for post-workout meal, white or brown rice? (assuming it is prepared with some form of protein, ie chicken or tofu)

White rice will digest faster and get into your muscles quicker.

General rule-of-thumb is high-GI carbs during and immediately after a ride. Then low-GI carbs during all other times. The jury's still out on the pre-ride meal, but I've seen evidence that it doesn't matter.

I put low fat chocolate milk into cooler for an immediate post-ride recovery drink. If I don't do that, when I get home I mix Chocolate Endurox with lo-fat choco milk, a banana, and ice in a blender. Yum! Try Accelerade for your ride drink. Not as sweet as Gator/Power- aid. If I'm out of accelerade, I always cut the commercial sports drink to half strength with water. You're doing a great job!

You're likely getting appetite suppression from the ride, and if you can get the recovery food into you, you will find that the hunger spike is far smaller.


So why do we lose our appetite after exercising? I have a very difficult time eating after exercising for more than an hour at a moderate pace. Is there some evolutionary explanation for this? What is my body trying to tell me and why shouldn't I listen to it?

Oat milk mixed with waxy maize starch.

So why do we lose our appetite after exercising? I have a very difficult time eating after exercising for more than an hour at a moderate pace. Is there some evolutionary explanation for this? What is my body trying to tell me and why shouldn't I listen to it?Yes, it's part of the survival mechanism (the "flight or fight response"). Exercise raises levels of adrenaline, cortisol, insulin, epinepherine. Blood is actually diverted from the stomach to the muscles to deliver as much oxygen as possible. This is also why you don't want to eat complex meals or eat too much while exercising. The higher levels of these hormones suppress the sensation of hunger in the brain caused by low glucose and leptin levels. Your body is craving nutrition, but you can't feel the hunger.

One of the major culprits in poor recovery is the cortisol. It's a catabolic steroid that triggers breakdown of perfectly good muscles and converts it into glucose for energy.

I drink a weight gainer shake from Optimum Nutrition called Serious Mass. From what it contains, it looks as if it works well, and I feel better after drinking it. It uses maltodextrin for the carbs (same as Hammer Recoverite) and I mix in some more whey protein to get the 4:1 protein to carb ratio.

Is this a good idea or not? I'm only worried about the creatine, as large amounts have caused me to cramp in the past, but this only has a 1 gram per serving and I typically only do a half serving. I have a full meal an hour after I chug it. I'm not a huge fan of the Acesulfame sweetener either, but I have no sensitivity to it. It's a lot cheaper in bulk than Recoverite or Endurox R4.

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Calories 1250
Calories from Fat 40
Total Fat 4.5 g 7%*
Saturated Fat 3 g 15%*
Cholesterol 75 mg 25%*
Total Carbohydrate 252 g 84%*
Sugars 40 g
Protein 50 g 100%*
Vitamin C 60 mg 100%*
Vitamin D 200 I.U. 50%*
Vitamin E 30 I.U. 100%*
Thiamin 5 mg 330%*
Riboflavin 5 mg 290%*
Niacin 50 mg 250%*
Vitamin B6 5 mg 250%*
Folic Acid 400 mcg 100%*
Vitamin B12 20 mcg 330%*
Biotin 300 mcg 100%*
Pantothenic Acid 100 mg 1000%*
Calcium 730 mg 70%*
Iron 6 mg 35%*
Phosphorus 350 mg 35%*
Iodine 75 mcg 50%*
Magnesium 186 mg 45%*
Zinc 30 mg 200%*
Selenium 200 mcg 290%*
Copper 1 mg 50%*
Manganese 10 mg 500%*
Chromium 600 mcg 500%*
Molybdenum 150 mcg 200%*
Sodium 600 mg 25%*
Potassium 1230 mg 35%*
Choline 250 mg
Inositol 250 mg
PABA 5 mg
Creatine Monohydrate 1 g
L-Glutamine 500 mg
* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.

Ingredients:
Complex Carbohydrates, Proprietary Protein Blend (Whey Protein Concentrate, Calcium Caseinate, Egg Albumen, L-Glutamine), Artificial Flavor, Serious Mass Vitamin & Mineral Blend (Potassium Phosphate, Choline Bitartrate, Magnesium Aspartate, Beta Carotene, Inositol, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Citrate, Ascorbic Acid, Boron Amino Acid Chelate, Niacinamide, Manganese Glycinate, Kelp, d-alpha Tocopherol Succinate, Ferrous Fumarate, Copper Gluconate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Para-Aminobenzoic Acid, Chromium Picolinate, Selenium Glycinate, Molybdenum Glycinate, Vitamin D3, Folic Acid, Biotin, Cyanocobalamin), Medium Chain Triglycerides, Creatine Monohydrate, Acesulfame Potassium.

Hammer Recoverite does it for me. I keep it in the fridge and drink it when I get in the door.

I eat a regular meal when my appetite returns, within an hour or two.

I have to admit, I was a skeptic at first, but Hammer products have worked so well for me, both on and off the bike, that I have never tried anything else. Recoverite, perpetuem on >2hr rides, heed on <2hr rides and endourolyte tablets on >75degF days. I sweat a lot.

I also do a stretch routine after a ride from Bob Andersons "stretching" book.

keep your stomach entertained for less time
:D

I've been using Endurox for the last 8 months or so, really seems to help-especially by the end of a week's worth of commuting and mountain biking/road riding on the weekends. I drink it as soon as I get off the bike then move on to meals/snacks after an hours or so (pretty much whatever I want but I tend to focus on protein/carbs/fat, in that order).

Hammer's RECOVERITE. Nothing better out there. I've got a very sensitive stomach and it's never bothered me, but it's made all the difference in my recoveries and next-day rides.

Chocolate milk with a scoop of whey power. Tastes great, refreshing, and a lot cheaper than all the pre packaged over hyped recovery products :)

unless its overhypoed pre packaged choc milk www.mygoodness.co.uk

I've been bouncing back between a big glass of chocolate milk, some egg beaters and whole grain english muffin, and a chewy bar - followed within two hours usually by a lean meat sandwhich of some sort, and for the most part it's been working well.

Last week I screwed up, forgot to eat as soon as I got home, and of course, was starving for the next two days (nothing in the kitchen was safe). Yesterday after our 70, did the chocolate milk, and an hour later, a 1/4 of a roast beef sub and that worked great.

Just in case anyone was interested. :)