Road Cycling - what's so special about brooks?

hey-

needless to say, i've never tried a brooks saddle. i've heard about how comfy they are, with the leather stretched over the rails and all, but are they really that comfy? are they really worth the break in period? i use a selle italia prolink that i'm happy with, but i've never heard a bad word about brooks.

speaking of the break-in period, how long does it take to break one of these things in to the point that it's completely shaped to your butt? and are they horrendously painful before you get it broken in?

thanks for the input

Buy a new ball peen hammer and give the seat a good 50 whacks. That should do it.

:crash:

One of my customers does Randoneering(Extreme distance riding), an afternoon ride for him is 300 miles, and he swears by them.

300miles in an afternoon.. that guy is nuts. For you Torontonians, thats from here to Montreal. Jeez!

Brooks are OK new , but dont go riding long distance. Just ride gently for about 3 weeks and the leather will adapt to your shape. Over the following months it will get more comfortable.
Dont go soaking a Brooks in any potions or hitting it.

The secret of a Brooks over other saddles is that they customise the shape to your particular rear-end configuration. Plastic saddles either fit or they dont fit.

Question :If I bought a 2nd hand Brookes would it eventualy fit after some riding ????

In converting my older touring bike to a fixed-gear, I debated going either a specialized comp (split saddle) as on my Concorde, or getting a Brooks Team Pro. I had a Team Pro on a badly fitted bike that I used on a trip to Mexico in '79. I remember it being as supple as glass, but I did not have the saddle problems that my riding mate had on his padded saddle. I went for the new Team Pro. The saddle has embossing that says "Pre-softened." I found it very comfortable right out of the box. I did not use any oil or softening agent. I think I prefer it to the Specialized, even though I was very satisfied with this saddle as well. Looking at it from the side, the top has a dip between the front of the saddle and the back. I thought that this would not allow me to slide back and forth as does the other one, when I want to engage muscle groups to various degrees. So far, this has not been the case, although this may change as it wears in. I like it just the way it is and do not know whether breaking-in will have an advantage or disadvantage. I keep the saddle level front to back, and the bars 11/2 inches lower than the saddle, and spend most of the time in the drops. The nose is narrow and will not cause an issue with rubbing on the inside of the thighs. The shape of it seems to contradict the whole idea of the V-shaped saddles, the shape suggests that it would impact the nerves, especially in the drops, but this has not happened yet. If I was to select a saddle to use long distance, this would be my first choice. If I remember it weighs in at 580 g., which is heavy now. It would be possible to save one lb. going to the ultra-light models, but this is one area where weight is not my prime concern. I say buy it, if you like an aero riding position, and if you intend on going long distances.

Right now I have the 2002 Specialized SWorks Saddle. Is this leather or plastic?

The one I have is the 2002 Specialized Comp-full leather top. CDN was $144.00, but I know you can get them from the Specialized web site for about $39.00 US for last year's model. Duty, postage and exchange would boost it up there though. One thing I did not mention. I was in the habit of standing up quite a bit on the geared bike to relieve the pressure on the Specialized. On the fixed, I don't stand as often to stretch since you can't coast and my average cadence is higher. So, the seat contact must be greater on the Brooks, and the fact that I have so far no pain must say something about the Brooks saddles.

I won't kid you.....Brooks saddles don't break in overnight. I suggest you put one on your everyday/commuting bike, adopt your favourite mythical softening method (this site is full of them)then carry on as normal, adding proofide/glove oil/ neatsfoot/whatever whenever the mood takes you. Behind all the marketing baloney and pseudo-science, weight and the need for maintenance are the only drawbacks of a Brooks- and you can get a titanium railed "Swift" now, if the weight is really an issue.

These things are comfy.....long miles over many years. Old-timers used to transfer them from bike to bike.......

I've got a "Pro", a "Pro-Select", a "Conquest"and a"B17 standard". The most recent has been on my tourer for 10 years.

try one.....they aren't even expensive, compared to some of the gadgety rubbish available out there......

don't they just look "old school" though? I just don't see them on a high performance bike, they would look out of place.

yea, i think if i got one (i'm really considering it) it would look ridiculous on my OCLV. but no one will see it when you're riding. however, i was at their site, and i think some of the brown leather models would look incredible on a Ti bike.

Im thinking of trying one for my DF(I a recumbent as well).So im not to bothered
what it looks like as long as i dont get numb.
But i do think Brooks saddles look great ,so if you what one go for it.I have never found any one that dont give them a good report,i suppose they end up like a favourite pair of shoes.

The break in of a Brooks saddle is overstated. At least in my case, my new Brooks was comfortable from day 1. As I rode it over a couple hundred miles or so, it developed indentations where my sit bones ride on the saddle and became even more comfortable. Nonetheless, the saddle was much more comfortable than my original padded saddle.

Some Brooks mold themselves to you more quickly than others. The leather of the popular B17 is a bit thinner than some of the other saddles and breaks in a bit sooner.

I always used a Brooks B-17 and I would say the break in period is 50 to 150 miles, although they are comfortable out of the box (as stated before).

My suggestion would be to avoid the Professional model and favor the B-17. A guy at work bought a Pro model and was not able to break in it and he rides a lot. The Brooks web site implies the Pro model is for the agressive rider. While we all would like to be one, most of us are probably not. Hence the B-17 may be a beter deal.

One last thought. The guy at Wallingford Bike in New Orleans has a 6 month unconditional return policy on Brooks. This may be worth investigating. I bought a marron B-17 from him with the spanner and proofride. Very satisfied. The spanner makes the tension adjustment a snap.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

thanks for the info everyone.

one last question: how much do these things cost? the B17 in particular, but if you know the prices of some of the others please tell me. their site doesnt seem to have prices, and roadbikereview doesnt even have brooks listed.

Here are some prices: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles.html

Nashbar also carries a few Brooks models, and the Proofride saddle dressing you'll need. You could use the current 20% off $75 coupon there (see "Hot Deals") .

RichC

Try here: http://www.wallbike.com/ for some definitive info about, and pricing of Brooks saddles.

You guys win. I bought a brooks b17 at nashbar.

Originally posted by Barnaby
Looking at it from the side, the top has a dip between the front of the saddle and the back. I thought that this would not allow me to slide back and forth as does the other one, when I want to engage muscle groups to various degrees. So far, this has not been the case, although this may change as it wears in. I like it just the way it is and do not know whether breaking-in will have an advantage or disadvantage. I keep the saddle level front to back, and the bars 11/2 inches lower than the saddle, and spend most of the time in the drops. The nose is narrow and will not cause an issue with rubbing on the inside of the thighs. The shape of it seems to contradict the whole idea of the V-shaped saddles, the shape suggests that it would impact the nerves, especially in the drops, but this has not happened yet. If I was to select a saddle to use long distance, this would be my first choice.
My old revamped tourer has a simular saddle though its got a plastic base & has some kind of padding (very thin) & covered with real buffalow hide , it looks like a real ball breaker but its suprisingly comfortable ! the old bloke in the little bike & mower shop round the corner remembers that kind of saddle & recons they were they were conciderd primo at the time , its a Viscount Aero , id'e never heard of them either :D

Nothing special about Brooks except for one small thing-COMFORT!!! LONG RIDING COMFORT!!!!!

Supcom.
You say once the Brooks was broke in you got indentations where your sit bone are.
Dosent this cause more pressure on the place where its not supposed to.

Its no better or worst then any other saddle.One persons prize is another persons trash.Gota try saddles for yourseld.Just as many riders love koobi and i tried one and it made me go numb so it wasnt for me.Brooks may or may not be your cup of tea.

Very interesting.The very type of saddle design which is supposed to be safe
ie one with a slot gave you problems.Does this suggest that many riders have been conned with these special saddles with slots?
I will definatly give a Brooks a go at some piont.

No,open slots does work but the koobi is so narrow that it didnt work for me.Maybe i'm to big,probally not.LOL

People whose asses are bullet proof aren't reading this post. They can buy and use whatever modish design they please and their bank manager approves. For the rest of us I suppose comfort is an issue, especially if your riding duration is measured in large numbers.

I am amused at the idea that a comfortable saddle might be such an optional extra that it might not look cool enough for a race bike. Like anyone can see the saddle with your butt on it! Much more "humiliating" would be suffering along at 10 mph on your Lance replica because you are in so much pain every time you sit down!

I have raced road, time trial and XC mountain bike using Brooks saddles. Nowadays I ride randonnees which sometimes amount to a weekend sleep-deprivation exercise (don't ask why........:)). Nobody cares why I use an old-school saddle and they all have a good idea why I do. In a race the fastest guy wins, not the guy with the lightest/coolest seat. In a long race, you'd better take care of comfort issues before they take care of you.

eric

Originally posted by ORBIT 1
Supcom.
You say once the Brooks was broke in you got indentations where your sit bone are.
Dosent this cause more pressure on the place where its not supposed to.

I have no problems with untoward pressure with my Brooks. The indentations are not so deep to cause pressure problems. They just seem to help spreading the load around the sit bones better.

I tried a Brooks for the first time last week. It was someone elses, so obviously it was conformed to their shape. However, that was, by far, the most comfortable seat I have ever ridden on. I am seriously contemplating getting one myself. I'm not a racer, so I'm not too concerned about the weight.

There's a little secret to Brooks. When pressure is applied to the sitbone area of the saddle, the leather deforms slightly, and the wings at the bottom splay outwards. It's a bit like have an inbuilt suspension in the seat itself. The thing is, though, you don't subside into a squishiness like with other gel and foam saddles. And it's different from the leather-over-plastic base saddles which have no give.

As to hardness, think of the pro-cyclists, the distances they ride, and the shape, size and hardness of the saddles. At least firm is better (isn't it always!). I came from a Serfas-type of saddle (original equipment on the Fuji) with a hole in the middle. After about 200km, my backside started to feel uncomfortable with the squishiness.

Another benefit I believe with leather saddles generally is that they *absorb* sweat, rather than deflect it back -- as plastics do -- into the chamois to accumulate and cause on-going chafe problems.

Having said that, I am still trying to wear in a Team Pro after about 1000km. Despite it's "Pre-Softened" words across the top of the saddle, it's been quite hard up to now. The indentations are coming, though. I think bottom and saddle are working in unison on the this one. I just hope the saddle feels the same as my backside!

R

The Brookes I had on my old Dawes Waaay back,could have the left & right side laced together undeneath at the front , I never had mine laced , though some people did !!

Just installed a new Brooks Swift saddle on my bike and used it the first time on my 14 mi commute to work. Initially, it was strange to feel the leather flex under my weight--but the overall ride was quite comfortable (had to do a little fiddling with the tilt during the ride).

So far I'm quite happy. Just one question, how and when does one use the tension adjustment screw? I've seen in other posts that this should never be changed. The instructions with the saddle were unclear.

What's so special about Brooks?

Because it's my first name!

:D :D :D

Terry PL: Congratulations on your new Swift.

Yes, most Brooks users, including myself end up with a slight nose up setting for best comfort.

Regarding the tension adjustment: People have actually ruined their saddles by over tightening the nut. Consequently the best all around advice seems to be "leave the bloody adjustment nut alone".
Many Brooks users have put thousands of miles and many years on their saddles without ever adjusting the tension.

My feeling is: If you're inclined to adjust - do it very carefully , never exceeding one turn at a time.

Originally posted by Rev.Chuck
One of my customers does Randoneering(Extreme distance riding), an afternoon ride for him is 300 miles, and he swears by them.

Rev. What you smoking... or better yet, what's your friend smoking.

Even at an average of 25miles and hour - 300 miles would take him 12 hours...

How many hours do you claim are in an afternoon...
Afternoon to me is 12pm to 5pm... otherwise it's evening...

Hell, you can't even drive a car legally and make 300 miles in 4 hours???

:confused:

The good Rev got your attention, eh? I think he was using dramatic effect to make his point, but randonneurs/randoneuses are pretty tough customers.

Randonneurs must average 15km/h for all ride distances up to 600km/h. The average drops slightly for longer distances (up to 1500km). Now that might seem pretty slow and achievable by just about everyone, but that is elapsed time average, which means the clock still ticks by while you eat, sleep, pee, fix the bike and check into control points.

In order to make the time limits, a good randon speed is between 20 and 22 km/h which will enable you to build up a just-in-case buffer and to allow you to sleep, etc.

The grand-daddy of them all (not in distance but in aura and history) is the 1200km Paris-Brest-Paris, which is run every four years... and the next one, the 15th, begins on 18 August 2003. You must complete the distance within 90 hours to qualify as a finisher. The record is something like 43 hours, but 98% of the field couldn't care less about that. With PBP this year I am expecting to spend 60 hours in the saddle, and to finish with a time between 85 and 89 hours 59 minutes.

Which gets me back to the thread... 60 hours over 3-3/4 days is a long time, and comfort is paramount. I fitted a Brooks Pro quite a few months ago. It did take a long time to mould to my backside (and I has the cheek to have the words "Pre-Softened" tooled into the leather!). The final adjustment was lifting the nose up quite a bit further than you'd think for normal seat. Combined with high-quality shorts, I expect to have few backside problems in France. I'll be fitting Brooks saddles to my other bikes as I can afford them.

By the way, leather moulded over plastic is not the same deal as a Brooks in terms of "suspension" because the leather doesn't "give". The leather may absorb sweat from the crotch as one benefit, though.

Terry PL wrote

So far I'm quite happy. Just one question, how and when does one use the tension adjustment screw? I've seen in other posts that this should never be changed. The instructions with the saddle were unclear.

The brooks information enclosed with with my B17 states
"turn 90° at time and repeat this sparingly.

The info Wallingford Bicycle sent me stated no more than 1 full turn per year.

The tensioning nut is a hex head so turning it 1 flat gives you 60° and 6 flats make 1 turn.

If you raide a lot, perhaps 1 full turn a year is enough. If you do not a lot, a longer time between turns should work.

I bought the Brooks spanner and it works very well. It is much better than pliers and allows turning it 1 flat very easily and accurately.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

I didn't get the spanner with the Pro saddle. Tightening the nut is meant to tension the leather across the top as it inevitably sags over a (long) period of use.

There are many, many people who have their own take on the treatment of Brooks saddles, most seeking the quick-fix solutions. I'd prefer the gospel of Brooks -- after all, it comes from the makers and they have far more experience in leather and their own product than 99.9% of population.

Like a spoke-key in the hands of a novice, a Brooks spanner and neatsfoot oil can bring on a disastrous waste of money.

Brooks are the only saddle which come with integral saddle bag loops (apart from the Pro). You can strap a large Carradice saddlebag directly to the weight-bearing metal frame. For small-med loads (10-25l) this is the most effective way of carrying stuff, in terms of aerodynamic and the load/weight ratio of the luggage system. Compared to a moderrn style rack-top bag, the old-fashioned saddlebag does not need a couple of pounds of luggage rack. This more than makes up for any extra weight in the saddle.

Thanks for the advice. I will not touch the nut.

So far, 32 miles in the saddle and, I think, there's break-in progress. In any case, this saddle was more comfortable out of the box than my stock Cannondale version.

I bought a Brooks B17 from Nashbar last Spring because I was nostalgic for my old Peugeot's saddle from the 1970s. I stalled putting it on for a couple months and finally put it on last month for my commuter bike, after soaking it in neats foot oil per Sheldon Brown. I had been worried about getting saddle sores from riding in street clothes (jeans) so I had been wearing the Adiamo liner shorts and continued to wear these with the Brooks for my short 2.5 mile commute 4 times a day. I immediately loved that old Brooks feel--mind you this is a very hard and very smooth saddle. I love it BUT I began to develop saddle sores, I think caused by the jeans crotch seams....hell, I had managed to avoid that problem for 2 years. Mind you I am female and so the problems with a Brooks will be quite different for a man probably. But sadly now I think I may have to take the saddle off, or start commuting in bike duds and I don't really want to do that. (I definitely have a split cyclist personality: completely decked-out bike geek road warrior and easy-riding townie bike commuter.)

So it must sound strange to say I still love the Brooks--go figure! (I think it's a neat looking saddle as well. But I'm old, too.) What I don't understand is HOW conforming to one's sit bones would actually help. That would mean that the rest of the saddle would intrude more into the soft tissues, which it does not do when it is still a smooth flat and hard platform holding you up off those tissues. I would be interested in hearing from other women using Brooks, though I don't imagine there are many.

Caroljm36 wrote

"I bought a Brooks B17 from Nashbar last Spring ..." and ended up with saddle sores.

Brooks makes saddles for women whivh are slightly wider to make up for the differneces in the sit bone positions. You may want to check the Walingford site and compare the B17 width (170 mm if I remeber correctly) with the womens models. Also Wallingford gives a 6 month guarente you may want to consider.

Finally, I put neetsfoot oil on my 27 year old B17 and it softened it up too much. Bought a new B17 from Wallingford and use only Proofhide and the Brooks spanner (he sells them for a package pprice of $10 with new saddle purchase. The differnece in saddle prices was about $5 and his guarentee was well worth the cost.

The neestfoot oil may be a cause and softened the saddle too much so you do not get proper support. My old Brooks was fine until I used the neetsfoot. Will never do it again.

Neetsfoot is great on baseball groves, but I seriously doubt fopr Brooks saddles.

Just some thoughts.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

The B17 fit my sitbones amazingly well, better than the one on my Peugeot. I looked at some "women's models" last year and I remember them being huge, with springs. I don't think the neats foot oil softened it up at all, but if you're not a neats foot fan, I supposed it's easy to see that as the culprit. I'm going to keep it on--rode it to work today--and I think maybe there is another cause. It was just kind of a funny coincidence I think and I will give it more time.

caroljm36

I'm betting on the seams on your jeans.
Didn't get saddle sores from previous soft padded saddle.
Now with brooks (hard saddle) nowhere for seams to go
but into soft tissue?
The Finesse saddle (Brooks womens) is an unsprung
saddle, size is 174 x 242 (width, length)
B17 measures 170 x 280 (width, length) for the standard
so you get a smidge more width and a lot less lenght
(which may or may not be a good thing).

I'd stick with the B17
Marty

Caroljm36 wrote
"I don't think the neats foot oil softened it up at all, but if you're not a neats foot fan, I supposed it's easy to see that as the culprit. I'm going to keep it on--rode it to work today--and I think maybe there is another cause. "

Two suggestions:
Ride with riding shorts and see if the saddle sores return.
1. If not, the seams are to be the problem.
2. If still a problem, try increasing the saddle tension 1 flat (1/6 of turn). Keep trying although I would not go beyond 3 flats (1/2 turn). The neetsfoot probably softened the saddle and it needs to be tensioned to provide the proper support.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

I am a Swift devoté, I don't think there is any break-in period to speak of, and as far as softening goes.... don't do it!!! I want mine to stay rock hard. The shiny slipperiness, together with the hardness is the key to comfort in my opinion. If you want a soft saddle get something else, if you want a comfortable saddle that you can ride for hours and hours and will last for decades get a Brooks.
To the interesting lady who rides in jeans.... don't. Make the world a better place by wearing your bike shorts to work.

To the folks who don't think a Brooks looks racy I submit a photo:

I bought one and tried it but took it off because of the hardness. One day I'll have the patience to break it in correctly.

I just became a Brooks owner. I purchased the B73 which is the model with THREE SPRINGS! Here's a picture

http://www.brookssaddles.com/index.php?type=mens_trektour

I use that saddle and a suspension seat post on my Bianchi Milano. Folks. I can't tell you the feeling of being able to ride for hours and bouncing over ruts, bumps and potholds. Last Saturday, I rode until my hands were hurting big time but my butt was just fine. Simply Amazing.

To be totally honest, I was afraid upon taking it out of the box since it felt so hard. It had some flex in the center but I didn't think it was going to be enough. I was actually going to put on a gel saddle on top of the Brooks! I was dead wrong.

For those who can't use the Professional Model because it's too hard, why not go for the B66? Yes, I know it has springs but that's what makes it special. I don't know how anyone is able to ride a Brooks saddle without springs. The good news is, the Brooks with the springs is awsome.

I don't know why more people ride saddles with springs. Seriously. There was no need to break the saddle in since the springs did all the work of a suspension seat post. I use both a suspension seat post and a Brooks for extra comfort. It's been a dream come true.

For those hybrid/Beach Cruiser/Comfort type riders looking for saddles of your dreams, get a Brooks with springs. My only regret is that I didn't go for the most aggressive model which is the B90/3.

In my opinion the best Brooks models are the B73, B33, B130 and B90/3.

Well I'm still using the B17 on my commuter, I just love the feel of the thing and just could not take it off. I think the saddle sores were a coincidence and even managed to ride without liner shorts with no repercussions. Just as well, because the saddle on my Lemond apparently no longer being made (Lady Trans Am).

don't they just look "old school" though? I just don't see them on a high performance bike, they would look out of place.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/t/u/tuerre/Welcome/BIKE/Habby.gif

Now you've seen one.

It's a Swift, with Ti Rails.

I have been thinking about a Brooks to go on my new Allez Elite... but which one? I am thinking going with the B-17 but do I go standard or narrow?



edit never mind I had lust so I just ordered the Standard!

Thanks:)