Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - how much better are Phil than White Industries?

Putting together a new set of street wheels for my fixie, and have seen both hubs get great reviews, but the Phil's only knock is that it's heavier because of all the stainless steel components, whereas WI uses more alloy.

Is Phil that much better than WI? Price is not an issue, just wanting to get the best quality without too much of a weight penalty. I'm not taking these wheels offroad either, just general commuting/errand running fun.

none of the above. get some GT Mohawk Hubs..you will look cool.

http://i8.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/a0/7d/35ce_1.JPG

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~norm/images/banghead.gif

They are no better and they are no worse. They are just different.

They are no better and they are no worse. They are just different.


But.. are they 'different' in a better, or worse way?

They are no better and they are no worse. They are just different.


But.. are they 'different' in a better, or worse way?

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

Some men, you just can't reach.

http://www.slcspin.com/uploaded_images/000008482_CoolHandLuke1X-774366.gif

I see... so what you're saying is they are both so good that either will fulfill my needs more than adequately, but as to the absolute measure of which one is better, they each meet standards that may or may not be important to me, and because I won't likely be pushing my commuter to those extremes, I shouldn't bother with those differences for now. Most importantly, since weight appears to be my overriding concern (as quality is already sufficient), pick the lighter ones, ergo, WI.

thanks! exactly what I wanted to hear!

I see... so what you're saying is they are both so good that either will fulfill my needs more than adequately, but as to the absolute measure of which one is better, they each meet standards that may or may not be important to me, and because I won't likely be pushing my commuter to those extremes, I shouldn't bother with those differences for now. Most importantly, since weight appears to be my overriding concern (as quality is already sufficient), pick the lighter ones, ergo, WI.

thanks! exactly what I wanted to hear!
Wow.

Sounds like you've got it about right. Realistically, the Phil's may have slightly better bearings. It is one of the things they are most well known for. However, the WI hubs are top notch, with a killer reputation. Both companies have excellent customer service. Both are tested and proven for off road conditions. Both will perform admirably for any sort of lighter duty use.

My fixed gear bike uses Phil Wood hubs / My bike is made of only the 'best' parts and components / Therefore; Phil Wood are the 'best' and henceforth are the better of the two hubs.
Yes.. thanku, I am a rocket scientist. :beer:

Sounds like you've got it about right. Realistically, the Phil's may have slightly better bearings. It is one of the things they are most well known for. However, the WI hubs are top notch, with a killer reputation. Both companies have excellent customer service. Both are tested and proven for off road conditions. Both will perform admirably for any sort of lighter duty use.
ssh..Here's a little secret..you can put phil bearings in any cartridge bearing hub to get a "phil" hub. A new $10 set of bearings can make a $40 IRO hub into a "phil" hub...

And a bearing supply warehouse will have bearings that are even better than phil bearings..

This point leads me to my opinion that all sealed cartridge bearing hubs are, more or less, the same after a high quality bearing upgrade.

ssh..Here's a little secret..you can put phil bearings in any cartridge bearing hub to get a "phil" hub. A new $10 set of bearings can make a $40 IRO hub into a "phil" hub...

And a bearing supply warehouse will have bearings that are even better than phil bearings..

This point leads me to my opinion that all sealed cartridge bearing hubs are, more or less, the same after a high quality bearing upgrade.

This is cool and so obvious too (if the Phil sealed cartridge bearings are the same size and will fit in my Surly hubs)... but I never thought of this, so thanks for the tip!

ssh..Here's a little secret..you can put phil bearings in any cartridge bearing hub to get a "phil" hub. A new $10 set of bearings can make a $40 IRO hub into a "phil" hub...

And a bearing supply warehouse will have bearings that are even better than phil bearings..

This point leads me to my opinion that all sealed cartridge bearing hubs are, more or less, the same after a high quality bearing upgrade.


But Phil bearings are not sealed cartridge bearings, - they are pressed in. Jeesh :rolleyes:, don't you know anything at all? :D -? ..Yeah, for real.

This is cool and so obvious too (if the Phil sealed cartridge bearings are the same size and will fit in my Surly hubs)... but I never thought of this, so thanks for the tip!


He's selling you lies.

... Oh well, it was a good thought. Too good to be true, I guess.

But Phil bearings are not sealed cartridge bearings, - they are pressed in. Jeesh :rolleyes:, don't you know anything at all? :D -? ..Yeah, for real.
???
I can't really uinderstand you, but I think you are agreeing with me, so if in that case, then :beer:

If not, I am a dumbass.

there is no such thing as "Phil" bearings, they are all just the same generic bearings

This is cool and so obvious too (if the Phil sealed cartridge bearings are the same size and will fit in my Surly hubs)... but I never thought of this, so thanks for the tip!
Phil makes many different sized bearings, and almost surely makes phil bearings with the same size as your surly bearings. Also, as I mentioned above, check out a local bearing supply warehouse for bearings that are even better than phil bearings. Just about evey major city has a boca or alpine bearing shop somewhere.

Ignore red house, he doesn't seem to have the faintest clue what he's talking about.

There will be a little number stamped on the rubber seals of the bearing, you need that. Or you can measure the bearing with a set of calipers.


... Oh well, it was a good thought. Too good to be true, I guess.

No. red house doesn't really know what he is talking about. Read my posts.

there is no such thing as "Phil" bearings, they are all just the same generic bearings
True, which is why I mentioned hitting up a local bearing warehouse. Phil just "specs" them, as this is the nomenclature that they use on their website.

???

I can't really uinderstand you, but I think you are agreeing with me, so if in that case, then :beer:

If not, I am a dumbass.


What makes Phil Wood hubs money is not just that they have high calibre bearings - it is also because they are 'pressed' into the hub, not sealed into replacible cartridges. Yeah. :)

What makes Phil Wood hubs money is not just that they have high calibre bearings - it is also because they are 'pressed' into the hub, not sealed into replacible cartridges. Yeah. :)
You really have no idea what a cartridge bearing hub is, do you? (hint: phil's are cartridge bearing hubs)

Do a little reading. (hint: sheldon brown!)

True, which is why I mentioned hitting up a local bearing warehouse. Phil just "specs" them, as this is the nomenclature that they use on their website.


There's a bearing warehouse in Allston. They only deal with industrial calibre bearings - but they can get ahold of aircraft grade precision bearings as well. They don't sell them from the wearhouse there, but this guy who works just gave me a free tour and gave me some free bearings too. :beer: ..I guess he wanted a break from his paper work.


http://www.yellowpages.com/sp/moreinfo/index.jsp?listingId=74982970&id=74982970&from=qpibp&qcat=Bearings&qs=MA&qc=Allston&qcid=211297445

You really have no idea what a cartridge bearing hub is, do you? (hint: phil's are cartridge bearing hubs)

Do a little reading. (hint: sheldon brown!)




No, I guess I have no idea what a cartridge bearing hub is.. But I have been to a bearing warehouse - with hundreds of millions of bearings of all different sizes and grades.. -have YOU been to a warehouse with millions of bearings for every concievable use? No, I didn't think so..

There's a bearing warehouse in Allston. They only deal with industrial calibre bearings - but they can get a hold of aircraft precision bearings also. They don't sell them from the wearhouse there, but this guy who works just gave me a free tour and some free bearings too. :beer: ..I guess he wanted a break from his paper work.
Yep, I think I made this point in at least two posts above.


No, I guess I have no idea what a cartridge bearing hub is.. But I have been to a bearing warehouse - with hundreds of millions of bearings of all different sizes and grades.. -have YOU been to a warehouse with millions of bearings for every concievable use? No, I didn't think so..
Yep, I've been to the alpine bearing warehouse in allston, as you mention..to get new bearings for my iro hubs that crapped out after a couple winters.

I looked at my Surly hub last week when adjusting it to get some play out, and saw that the bearings in are enclosed in a circular cartridge thing. They aren't loose and you can't really get to them to measure them. But I just looked on Surly's website and it said that all hubs "spin on high load, well sealed, adjustable cartridge bearings over standard sized axles (9x1mm front, 10x1mm rear)." So, I guess that means that when I would normally service a hub and grease the bearings, for this type of hub I'd actually just replace the sealed cartridge thing, pop a new one in, and done.
I don't know anything about Phil's except they look great, they have a wonderful reputation, and they are too expensive for me, but if they DO provide bearings in the same sized sealed cartridge, then it makes sense that I could plop that into my Surly hub and it would spin better (even if not identically to a Phil hub). Or find something similar at a bearing supply warehouse.
I am not really a mechanic (just a tinkerer who can do the basics), so I enjoy reading all your advice on this forum. Even when it totally conflicts, I can at least learn which questions to ask at the bike shop.
Thanks BostonFixed for the idea...

What makes Phil Wood hubs money is not just that they have high calibre bearings - it is also because they are 'pressed' into the hub, not sealed into replacible cartridges. Yeah. :)
CALIBER

I looked at my Surly hub last week when adjusting it to get some play out, and saw that the bearings in are enclosed in a circular cartridge thing. They aren't loose and you can't really get to them to measure them. But I just looked on Surly's website and it said that all hubs "spin on high load, well sealed, adjustable cartridge bearings over standard sized axles (9x1mm front, 10x1mm rear)." So, I guess that means that when I would normally service a hub and grease the bearings, for this type of hub I'd actually just replace the sealed cartridge thing, pop a new one in, and done.
I don't know anything about Phil's except they look great, they have a wonderful reputation, and they are too expensive for me, but if they DO provide bearings in the same sized sealed cartridge, then it makes sense that I could plop that into my Surly hub and it would spin better (even if not identically to a Phil hub). Or find something similar at a bearing supply warehouse.
I am not really a mechanic (just a tinkerer who can do the basics), so I enjoy reading all your advice on this forum. Even when it totally conflicts, I can at least learn which questions to ask at the bike shop.
Thanks BostonFixed for the idea...
Yep, you have it 100% right.

One last thing- there is a little rubber seal on any sealed cartridge bearing, that you can pop off carefully with something small and sharp, like an x-acto knife. When this is removed, you will see the bearings and the race. If your bearings are kinda dry, pop off the seal, and squirt a little more grease in..that should keep you rolling for a while. But a new set of bearings is like $15, so it may not be worth the effort.

Yep, I've been to the alpine bearing warehouse in allston, as you mention..to get new bearings for my iro hubs that crapped out after a couple winters.


Alpine bearing warehouse in Allston? :lol: ..Pls, their bearings are 95 percent absolute crap. All of the bearings that turn up cracked, chipped or otherwise flawed and imperfect are sent to the 'Alpine' bearing co., - most people in the industry are well aware of this and will tell you the very same thing.. -(except of course for the ppl who work at Alpine bearing warehouse). If you want 'round' go to Action and Action dealers, - plus if you speak with this guy named Mr. Freeman he'll likely even give you some bearings for free.. no joke. It doesn't get any better than that, does it?

Yep, you have it 100% right.

One last thing- there is a little rubber seal on any sealed cartridge bearing, that you can pop off carefully with something small and sharp, like an x-acto knife. When this is removed, you will see the bearings and the race. If your bearings are kinda dry, pop off the seal, and squirt a little more grease in..that should keep you rolling for a while. But a new set of bearings is like $15, so it may not be worth the effort.

Right on!

Alpine bearing warehouse in Allston? :lol: ..Pls, their bearings are 95 percent absolute crap. All of the bearings that turn up cracked, chipped or otherwise flawed and imperfect are sent to the 'Alpine' bearing co., - most people in the industry are well aware of this and will tell you the very same thing.. -(except of course for the ppl who work at Alpine bearing warehouse). If you want 'round' go to Action and Action dealers, - plus if you speak with this guy named Mr. Freeman he'll likely even give you some bearings for free.. no joke. It doesn't get any better than that, does it?
Cool, where's action and action? Is there one in boston?

My iros spin fine, but I'm not a perfectionist and I'm not really into racing, so maybe they're good enough for me.

CALIBER




cal·i·bre (kl-br) KEY

NOUN:
Chiefly British




what are you, some kind of American spelling nazi?

cal·i·bre (kl-br) KEY

NOUN:
Chiefly British




what are you, some kind of American spelling nazi?
Wow good job! whats next coloured tyres?

Cool, where's action and action? Is there one in boston?

Action Bearing Company
201 Brighton Ave
Allston, MA 02134

(617) 782-1400




My iros spin fine, but I'm not a perfectionist and I'm not really into racing, so maybe they're good enough for me.


Yeaaah, okay.. I'd seriously get those ''Alpine'' bearings replaced if I were you. They could be one or two revolutions away from imminent self-destruction. You never know..

Action Bearing Company
201 Brighton Ave
Allston, MA 02134

(617) 782-1400
:lol: That was the one I went to....sorry brain fart for a little while..:o :fight:

Alpine..Action..eh, I'm a little out of it. I guess I am the dumbass.

:lol: That was the one I went to....sorry brain fart for a little while..:o :fight:

Alpine..Action..eh, I'm a little out of it.


Did they sell you bearings, or did they just give them to you? I was told that they didn't actually do transactions from the warehouse, the guy just brought me along into the warehouse, showed me around and then gave me a little zip-lock baggy of the bearings that I needed free of charge. :beer:

for ultimate pimptastic durability please refer to levelcomponents.com. only problem is the lowest cog they got for these hubs is 16t.