Training & Nutrition - Maintaining weight-loss post ride meal: did I mess up??

Somebody tell me if I messed up with my post ride meal please?

A 4 hour, 10 laps around prospect park (brooklyn) work out ride with a time trial all the way back home = 2400 calories burned, 134 average low bpm and 175 average high.

My meal was a 12 inch subway sandwich which consisted of:

12 inch honey/oat bread
Turkey (double meat)
spinach
tomatoes
onions
green peppers
sweet peppers
spicy mustard
oil/vinegar
pepper

Afterwards I still had the munchies so I had a couple handfuls of chopped walnuts.
All washed down with some evian water.

Did I over do it? :(

You shouldn't drink Evian. Really, rots your gut.

You're fine! That's like what I eat on my days off!

You shouldn't drink Evian. Really, rots your gut.

You're fine! That's like what I eat on my days off!

Cool. :D .........wait though..........you were kidding about the evian.........right? :eek:

Somebody tell me if I messed up with my post ride meal please?

A 4 hour, 10 laps around prospec park (brooklyn) work out ride with a time trial all the way back home = 2400 calories burned, 134 average low bpm and 175 average high.

My meal was a 12 inch subway sandwich which consisted of:

12 inch honey/oat bread
Turkey (double meat)
spinach
tomatoes
onions
green peppers
sweet peppers
spicy mustard
oil/vinegar
pepper

Afterwards I still had the munchies so I had a couple handfuls of chopped walnuts.
All washed down with some evian water.

Did I over do it? :(

That's a bit light on the carbs. You might want to do something specific for recovery instead of having a normal meal - I know that they say that real food is as good, but that's not the way it works out for me.

Today I did 59 miles in 3:51 with 4K of climbing (with pretty much no paceline at all). I had accelerade during the ride, a bagel, and a few newtons. Afterwards I had Endurox and half a subway sandwich, and that was enough until dinner time.

I'm convinced that if you keep the blood sugar up during the ride and get good recovery nutrition that you don't have to replace the fat that you burned.

Oh, and how did you figure out that you burnt 2400 calories?

That's a bit light on the carbs. You might want to do something specific for recovery instead of having a normal meal - I know that they say that real food is as good, but that's not the way it works out for me.

Today I did 59 miles in 3:51 with 4K of climbing (with pretty much no paceline at all). I had accelerade during the ride, a bagel, and a few newtons. Afterwards I had Endurox and half a subway sandwich, and that was enough until dinner time.

I'm convinced that if you keep the blood sugar up during the ride and get good recovery nutrition that you don't have to replace the fat that you burned.

Oh, and how did you figure out that you burnt 2400 calories?

Actually, lemme detail everything I had today.

Before I went out I had a liquid breakfast from the blender which consisted of:

2 cups soy milk
three pills of creatine
4 tiny papaya extract pills
2 vitamin C pills
plenty of ice
and 4 scoops of muscle milk light (vanilla)

A couple hours later and then I was off for the ride.
Along with the ride I had a bottle of cytomax (orange flavor) to have while I was riding. After the ride and before the long trek back home I took a gel. And yes I did also have regular water with me.

Just before home when I had started to cramp I did mention I had an accelerade. And just before the sandwich I took 3 more creatine pills (3 pills is a single dose).
I'm more concerned with maintaining muscle than maintaining fat. If I end up loosing a little fat from all of this then the better.

Oh, and the calorie burn count was from the heart rate monitor I was using.

EDIT: And one more thing. I didn't end up eating dinner. The subway lunch was kinda late so I called it lunch/dinner.

Somebody tell me if I messed up with my post ride meal please?

A 4 hour, 10 laps around prospec park (brooklyn) work out ride with a time trial all the way back home = 2400 calories burned, 134 average low bpm and 175 average high.

My meal was a 12 inch subway sandwich which consisted of:

12 inch honey/oat bread
Turkey (double meat)
spinach
tomatoes
onions
green peppers
sweet peppers
spicy mustard
oil/vinegar
pepper

Afterwards I still had the munchies so I had a couple handfuls of chopped walnuts.
All washed down with some evian water.

Did I over do it? :(


I don't know for you, but I could not handle the meat/nuts very well. I prefer to focus on fast burning carbs with little meat/fat to achieve faster glycogen/blood-sugar recovery. I'll do the protein/fat intake much later in the day or the next day if I exercise late. Otherwise, the fatigue lingers.

Al

If you wanted to be "perfect," you should have had a recovery drink immediately after your ride, then about 40 mintes later had the sub, and 2 hours later had the nuts. For the best effect, don't mix carbs and fats in the same meal.

If you wanted to be "perfect," you should have had a recovery drink immediately after your ride, then about 40 mintes later had the sub, and 2 hours later had the nuts. For the best effect, don't mix carbs and fats in the same meal.

What would be considered a healthy fast burning carb? And what recovery drinks do you guys use? I don't mind fast burning carbs but I want to stay away from the unhealthy sugars.

Well, there IS a time and place for "unhealthy" sugars, and that time is right after training. Any other time and it gives an insulin spike that is detrimental. But taken right AFTER training, that spike helps shunt the necessary nutrients into your muscles to begin the recovery process.

I use biotest surge and have for years - IMO it is the best engineered product on the market. Many here just buy what they know from cycling companies, but I believe the 2:1 ratio of carb to protein surge provides is superior. There are other ways to do something close though - whey and gatorade for example.


A couple mistakes you made, though. 1. Get rid of the soy milk. 2. you should eat every 2-3 hours whether you're hungry or not - matter of fact, you don't WANT to be hungry. So eat something, even if it's just some cottage cheese, beef jerky, a low-carb protein shake, something. I don't know what you weigh, but it looks like you ate way too little today, which accounts for the massive calorie intake at Subway. Eat more earlier. 5-6 meals a day with protein each meal. You can count the post-workout shake as a meal if you like. I eat 8 times a day most days and I gain fat EASILY. The carbs in the post-workout shake won't hurt.

. I eat 8 times a day most days and I gain fat EASILY.

Most people try to avoid that.

Well, there IS a time and place for "unhealthy" sugars, and that time is right after training. Any other time and it gives an insulin spike that is detrimental. But taken right AFTER training, that spike helps shunt the necessary nutrients into your muscles to begin the recovery process.

I use biotest surge and have for years - IMO it is the best engineered product on the market. Many here just buy what they know from cycling companies, but I believe the 2:1 ratio of carb to protein surge provides is superior. There are other ways to do something close though - whey and gatorade for example.


A couple mistakes you made, though. 1. Get rid of the soy milk. 2. you should eat every 2-3 hours whether you're hungry or not - matter of fact, you don't WANT to be hungry. So eat something, even if it's just some cottage cheese, beef jerky, a low-carb protein shake, something. I don't know what you weigh, but it looks like you ate way too little today, which accounts for the massive calorie intake at Subway. Eat more earlier. 5-6 meals a day with protein each meal. You can count the post-workout shake as a meal if you like. I eat 8 times a day most days and I gain fat EASILY. The carbs in the post-workout shake won't hurt.

Whats up with everybody and soy milk. Its good stuff. It helped me tremendously in my weight loss and helps me in my weekly diet. I specifically use 8th continent light plain flavor. And in case there is any munchies I have fruit (apples, pears), also seedless dates sometimes and some walnuts. And frequently I munch on wasa crip bread crackers......fiber rye flavor. I spread some peanut butter on it with some low sugar blackberry jam....mmm mmm. :)

The calorie intake with the sandwich ingredients I described was considered "massive"?

Most people try to avoid that.

lol umm...I'm trying to avoid that too.

Most people try to avoid that.

Try to avoid what? Gaining fat? Yes I know - it's one of the reasons why I eat 8 times a day.

Whats up with everybody and soy milk. Its good stuff. It helped me tremendously in my weight loss and helps me in my weekly diet. I specifically use 8th continent light plain flavor. And in case there is any munchies I have fruit (apples, pears), also seedless dates sometimes and some walnuts. And frequently I munch on wasa crip bread crackers......fiber rye flavor. I spread some peanut butter on it with some low sugar blackberry jam....mmm mmm. :)

The calorie intake with the sandwich ingredients I described was considered "massive"?


Given that it was your biggest meal of the day - yes, by comparison, it was.

For the best effect, don't mix carbs and fats in the same meal.

I read that somewhere before, maybe here. :D Why is that again?

I read that somewhere before, maybe here. :D Why is that again?

Well, to oversimplify things: If your body is going to store calories as fat cells on your body, then excess calories from protein and carbohydrates must be converted to fat. That takes energy to do - it's called the thermic effect of food. It's one reason why higher protein diets work so well. Therefore you actually BURN calories when your body STORES calories.

However, it doesn't take caloric expenditure to convert fat to fat. So if you consume fat and carbs, your body uses the carbs as immediate fuel and stores the fat, since it's energy saving to do so.

hmmm.
Good to know!

Conversion efficiency is roughly as follows:

carbs --> 60% fat
protein --> 75% fat
fats --> 99% fat

So in order gain 1-lb of fat on the body, you can eat the following excess calories:

carbs = 5833 calories
protein = 4666 calories
fats = 3535 calories

You only need to eat a little bit of fat to pile it onto the body. You can get away with eating a lot more carbs & proteins before you pile on an equivalent amount of fat. Not to mention that fats are more dense to begin with. So an extra plate of fettucini alfredo will pile on 1-lb from fats in the cheese-sauce and about 0.25-lbs from the pasta.

You might as well inject the fat you eat right under your skin. Your gut can't turn fat into sugar so guess where it goes? :D

If you wanted to be "perfect," you should have had a recovery drink immediately after your ride, then about 40 mintes later had the sub, and 2 hours later had the nuts. For the best effect, don't mix carbs and fats in the same meal.

+10

If you are hungry 30-45 minutes after your recovery meal and/or you have munchies afterwards, you didn't do a good job with the immediate recovery.

I've had great luck with endurox. Monday we did a hilly (4000' elevation gain, with a lot of 8-12% hills) 59 miles in a bit under 4 hours. I had three bottles of accelerade on the ride, a bagel, and 3 newtons, and then a serving of endurox afterwards. One the way home I had a 6" subway sandwich and a cookie (and a coke), and that was all I had until dinner. And I felt good enough to do another hilly 1500 last night.

Try to avoid what? Gaining fat? Yes I know - it's one of the reasons why I eat 8 times a day.

lol its just the way you worded it made it seem like your specific goal was to gain fat. It was a bit confusing.

+10

If you are hungry 30-45 minutes after your recovery meal and/or you have munchies afterwards, you didn't do a good job with the immediate recovery.

I've had great luck with endurox. Monday we did a hilly (4000' elevation gain, with a lot of 8-12% hills) 59 miles in a bit under 4 hours. I had three bottles of accelerade on the ride, a bagel, and 3 newtons, and then a serving of endurox afterwards. One the way home I had a 6" subway sandwich and a cookie (and a coke), and that was all I had until dinner. And I felt good enough to do another hilly 1500 last night.

Ok, I think I've learned a little here but of course I have more to learn. So this saturday I'm going to try a repeat performance but I will have some endurox to help with the recovery. And perhaps I will have some accelerade with me instead of the cytomax. Or should I have the cytomax during the ride and use the accelerade after the ride and also this endurox?

What is endurox anyway? =/

lots of good suggestions here. You should not curb calories immediately after the ride. Your glycogen window is slight, and you should fill up on carb's right after the ride (the sooner the better)
A yogurt and an energy drink (Cytomax, Accelerade, Endurox, et al)

After that you've got the rest of the day to catch up. The first 20-30 minutes after you stop riding is the most crucial and will guide your recovery for the rest of the day/night.

There are two types of food. Fiber and fat. Fruits and veggies are pushed, not due to the vitamins, but for the fiber and water content. Then there are animal fats. Colon cancer is the #2 cancer in men and women because fiber, which attracts water thus flushes out toxins, etc is lacking and fat, which repels water, thus keeping more toxins inside.

You know your body better than anyone else. After the recovery drink, or similar (50/50 OJ and water, chocolate milk, etc) then fats are empty calories (think of your recovery foods as fuel)> And remember to obey your thirst.

re: cytomax and accellerade. Cytomax is mostly maltodextrin, and accelerade is mostly simple sugar + a tiny amount of protein. When i tried to do all accellerade on a long hard century, I got bad stomach cramps - too much simple sugar for too long. Now I mix the two, with a bit more protein, and am very pleased by the results.

Ok guys. Help me determine whether I messed up on the fueling pre and post run.
I went running up the west side of manhattan on my lunch hour today. *whispers* don't tell anyone but my boss let me go out for nearly two hours without making a big deal out of it. :)

I usually eat a low carb breakfast wrap in the morning which usually consists of egg whites, tomatoes,onions,green peppers, and two slices of turkey. I have it with my vitamin pills and water.
After all the talk we've been having I decided to alter today's diet in anticipation of the run.
My breakfast consisted of:

One bagel with peanut butter
One cup of a yogurt,assorted fruit pieces and granola parfait (freshly made)
my usual vitamins and water
But being that this was my co-workers retirement party day I also had a donut.

Right before the run itself I took a powerbar gel plain flavor and I had a bottle of cytomax to have on the run. I started near battery park and (after I stretched and warmed up) had a nice run at a medium pace all the way to 34th street and then back to battery park.
And yes I went out today friday which was pretty dang hot.
My running style is with forefoot striking which works for me since I have those new newtonrunning shoes.
Anyways, after the run this is what I had:

bottle of amino vital pro
one powerbar performance energy bar (vanilla crisp flavor)

After about 45 minutes of resting I then felt ok to have a real lunch which consisted of:

turkey sandwich which had.....
Smoked turkey
7 grain bread
lettuce
tomato
onions
mustard
pesto

But I still felt funny and a bit hungry so I also had a left over bagel from this mornings office party with cream cheese.
So how did I do? Did I mess up with the bagel? Did I mess up at all anywhere? :o

You're getting most of your protein from deli meat. That's not a wise choice. You need more real beef, poultry, and fish in your diet. You're still way low in protein overall.

That bagel and cream cheese should have been meat plus veg plus a small amount of brown rice maybe. Or a protein shake and veggies with hummus.


But not too bad. You ate more often, which was good!

im th same i cant get full on just my post workout cereal and yogurt or cereal and whey, i have to eat again about 45mins-1 hour later

With all the gells, acceleraid, cytomax, amino paks, creatine pills, etc you take every time you exercise, I'm not sure why your here asking for advice, just buy and eat what the next commercial/billboard says you need :)

Seriously, skip all the chemicals for a lunch hour run.

Errr.... 10 laps in 4 hours? That's like a 24 minute lap. Shouldn't you be doing like 8-9 minute laps? 4 hrs in prospect park, that's like watching nascar. Except I think prospect park has at least one right turn...

Errr.... 10 laps in 4 hours? That's like a 24 minute lap. Shouldn't you be doing like 8-9 minute laps? 4 hrs in prospect park, that's like watching nascar. Except I think prospect park has at least one right turn...

Really its more like 8 laps in under 2 hours. Then a rest and then finish off with a couple more laps. Then another short rest then I'm riding down ocean parkway all the way down. total complete workout and trip to and from = 4 hours. I'm not sure what that equates timewise for one lap.

Well if you do the math 8/2 hrs or under is something like 13-14 min/lap.

Well if you do the math 8/2 hrs or under is something like 13-14 min/lap.

Umm.....thats probably correct when I was doing my last few laps but the first several laps was much faster I'm fairly certain. I'm sure as heck not an athlete but I'm sure I can do better than 13-14 min laps.
What I think I'm going to do next time I'm at prospect park is time myself for several laps then take an average.

Umm.....thats probably correct when I was doing my last few laps but the first several laps was much faster I'm fairly certain. I'm sure as heck not an athlete but I'm sure I can do better than 13-14 min laps.
What I think I'm going to do next time I'm at prospect park is time myself for several laps then take an average.

What you should do is insult R600 then follow him as he does laps, I suspect you'll be doing 5-6 minute laps.

What you should do is insult R600 then follow him as he does laps, I suspect you'll be doing 5-6 minute laps.

Would that be anything like tying a steak to my saddle bag while being chased by a pack of rabid bionic super dogs? :D

Well, to oversimplify things: If your body is going to store calories as fat cells on your body, then excess calories from protein and carbohydrates must be converted to fat. That takes energy to do - it's called the thermic effect of food. It's one reason why higher protein diets work so well. Therefore you actually BURN calories when your body STORES calories.

However, it doesn't take caloric expenditure to convert fat to fat. So if you consume fat and carbs, your body uses the carbs as immediate fuel and stores the fat, since it's energy saving to do so.

Seems to make sense.

so no fat and carb meals?

Ok a new fuel report for you guys to critique. Its going to rain today in new york so I am plotting when exactly I should go out from the office and sneak in a run. Its most likely going to rain in the afternoon so I am fueling myself as we speak for an early run before noon.
I'm going high on the carbs so as to get some quick energy instead of my usual low carb high protein breakfast and here is the menu:

1 powerbar performance energy bar
1/2 of a bagel with jelly
1 small bottle of silk soymilk (vanilla flavor 11oz.)

I didn't want to waste half the morning digesting some giant egg wrap breakfast because I need to be ready to go running in at the most one hour from now. Its 8:30 am now and I hope to be ready by 9:30. By then I hope to have used the bathroom and have my system settled so where I can run with no discomfort.

I'll let you all know how it went.

can ihave the other half of the bagel?

can ihave the other half of the bagel?

Sorry. I ate it after the run. :p
Along with that I took a powerbar gel and a banana. About 30 minutes later I had lunch which consisted of stuff I brought from home:
a whole wheat wrap
spinach leaves
1 whole avacado
2 boiled egg whites
some yellow pepper
couple tablespoons of mild salsa

Then around 3 or 4pm I had an afternoon snack of a small cup of chicken noodle soup and another banana.

I didn't feel too bad after the run but was kind of hungry hence what I ate during the day.

Speaking of post recovery drinks. I like chocolate milk (please no posts about milk is bad, etc), it's like a reward after a good ride. Specially Rockview Farms 1%. I am just not sure how much to drink. So lets say I did a two hour ride some intervals, rest is zone1 including 20 min at the end to get back home. I did 1262 kJ of work, which roughly equivalent to 1k calories burned. During work out I had 150 calories from GU2O mixed in to one of the water bottles. Would 8 oz for recovery drink be enough? Would ammount change if for example I did a 2 hour zone1/2 ride and burned 1100-1200 calories? I remember Danno saying in one of the posts it should be 300-800 calories, but that would mean at least two servings which translate to 64g Carb.
Nutritional facts:
Serving size: 1cup(240mL) anbout 8.11 oz
Calories 160
Fat calories 25
Total Fat 3g
Sat. Fat 2g
Cholest. 15mg
Sodium 220mg
Total Carb. 32g
Sugar 30g
Protein 8g

Speaking of post recovery drinks. I like chocolate milk (please no posts about milk is bad, etc), it's like a reward after a good ride. Specially Rockview Farms 1%. I am just not sure how much to drink. So lets say I did a two hour ride some intervals, rest is zone1 including 20 min at the end to get back home. I did 1262 kJ of work, which roughly equivalent to 1k calories burned. During work out I had 150 calories from GU2O mixed in to one of the water bottles. Would 8 oz for recovery drink be enough? Would ammount change if for example I did a 2 hour zone1/2 ride and burned 1100-1200 calories? I remember Danno saying in one of the posts it should be 300-800 calories, but that would mean at least two servings which translate to 64g Carb.
Nutritional facts:
Serving size: 1cup(240mL) anbout 8.11 oz
Calories 160
Fat calories 25
Total Fat 3g
Sat. Fat 2g
Cholest. 15mg
Sodium 220mg
Total Carb. 32g
Sugar 30g
Protein 8g

I'm sorry. My calculus isn't that good so umm......huh??? :( How many calories should he have consumed after the ride?

I'm sorry. My calculus isn't that good so umm......huh??? :( How many calories should he have consumed after the ride?
More precisely carbs.

I always chug a bunch of chocolate milk after my runs, I've went through a gallon in like 6 days. Its fat free, so no mixing the carbs and fats, although I don't worry about that stuff at all. Unless you are at Lance's level, I don't know if this much thought should be put into what you eat. Just my thoughts.

I always chug a bunch of chocolate milk after my runs, I've went through a gallon in like 6 days. Its fat free, so no mixing the carbs and fats, although I don't worry about that stuff at all. Unless you are at Lance's level, I don't know if this much thought should be put into what you eat. Just my thoughts.
I am somehwat OC about it. :( Besides you don't have to be Lance to try to eat right. Everyone wants to reach their potential and I think proper nutrition helps to achieve it.

my theory is to let us younger guys get good eating what we wnat then we can fix up diet/bfp and see if we get great.. it also stops you getting bored of the food/lifestlye by mid 20s a la jan ullrich

my theory is to let us younger guys get good eating what we wnat then we can fix up diet/bfp and see if we get great.. it also stops you getting bored of the food/lifestlye by mid 20s a la jan ullrich

Ya its a shame about him man. He just didn't have the motivation like some other well known cyclists. He was obviously extremely talented but just didn't want to maintain what I guess he considered a super strict diet.

still way low in protin dude....

Its monday mornin and I'm ready for a new week of running and bike riding.
Today for breakfast I bought a cup of muscle milk N oats and heated it in the microwave mixed with soy milk. Also, I had a whole wheat bagel with peanut butter. I also bought a banana but was too full from the other stuff to eat it. Maybe later.

And I'm trying that endurox thing in pill form to see if it helps with the run. Wish me luck. :p

Ya its a shame about him man. He just didn't have the motivation like some other well known cyclists. He was obviously extremely talented but just didn't want to maintain what I guess he considered a super strict diet.
i think he was kicking out against whatever was in front of him it was his inner demons, not food in particualir just that he'd had enough of discipline

Hey guys... without hijacking this thread can I post my meals? I have a few questions.

Sunday:
1/2 burrito ~ 500-750 calories I'm guessing
15-20 chips & salsa
1 Horchata
1/2 quesadilla ~250-300 calories I'm guessing

Rode 2 hrs, 30 miles
Drank water
Drank 1 bot 25% Pure apple juice & 75% water

Dinner:
Japanese ramen (noodles) in soup, w/ 3 0.5" slices of roasted pork (SPAM cross sectional sizes)
2-3 small pieces (as big as a ping pong ball) deep fried chicken
Water
Tea
Brie & 6 table water crackers
Strawberries

Man I was hungry

Slept 11 hours YAY gradschool

11am breakfast - 8oz yogurt drink (Kefir - Trader Joes)
Noodles made from chicken broth
1/2 toast & jam sammich

Rode 8 miles through San Francisco... pretty tired probably from Sunday's ride
drank water
Got home w/ slow leaking flat
Ate 9 medjool dates
Ate 6 more crackers smothered w/ Brie (I love cheese --- hope I don't have to give it up!!!)
Ate 1/2 of that leftover burrito (beef tongue, beans, rice & salsa)
Daikon radish soup & some rich

LOL I eat a lot of ethnic foods so bless you if you can give me any advice.
Thanks much
donovan

by the way, i know I'm dehydrated cuz I'm getting one of those dehydration headaches that I always get. I also was dehydrated from sleeping. I'll drink more water. This mileage that I've logged is actually the most I've ridden since 8 years ago. I started Thursday with a climb... 2500ft in 14 miles (Tunnel Rd. Berkeley), Sunday did rolling hills (San Mateo to Stanford loop via Canada Rd.), Today road from Embarcadero station through Golden Gate park, down to Great Highway and back to Daly City (where I live)...