Electric Bikes - Schwinn izip Conversion

cheers

.cheers

Yeah, that's not an ebike anymore...

So how did you modify the motor for cooling?

It's still an eBike... just not a legal one... in most areas at least LOL ;)

We're not talking about something that goes a few km/h faster then the limit... This vehicle goes 54.6mph, the pedals are not geared to be usable anywhere close to this speed, should be a pretty good hint right there... Now 54.6mph is 86km/h, this is full-blown motorcycle territory - even limited speed motorcycles are to top out at less then 70km/h, mopeds to 50-ish... And I know of no place on earth where this type of electric motorcycle, with pedals on it, would be thought of as an electric bicycle...

Despite your skewed conception of an electric motorcycle, this is still an eBike at the core but just way too fast, and illegal in most areas.

A true electric motorcycle can't be reversed into a legal eBike, Karma's bike can. As such... it's still an eBike, not an electric motorcycle.

You could build a bicycle out of stove pipe if you wanted to, but that wouldn't make it a stove... Imo a self-propelled, motorcycle-like device that goes at motorcycle speeds, should rightfully be called such...


Anyways I asked about cooling because I know of someone who fried such an MY1018 by overvolting it that way, running it hard for 7 miles I think. Ended up getting a new one & adding forced cooling. Good news is they're real cheap, 45$ at TNCscooters.


Backup of the original thread here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=482&highlight=my1018

And a followup:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=525&highlight=my1018

You could build a bicycle out of stove pipe if you wanted to, but that wouldn't make it a stove... Imo a self-propelled, motorcycle-like device that goes at motorcycle speeds, should rightfully be called such...


Well... that's just it: it's your oppinion and not how Transport Canada and the Ministry of Transportation sees it.

Karma's bike doesn't qualify as a moped, scooter or motorcycle. It's an eBike if he can keep it below 500W constant output at the motor and below 32km/h under assist power.

It's an illegal eBike but it's more closely related to an eBike than an Electric motorcycle according to the law.

Your oppinion has nothing to do with it.

PS: Motorcycles don't have operable pedals that can be used for propulsion.

This is interested, how did you pull it off?

i pushed the motor at 48 volts. max speed was 54.6 mph.

Vow. !!!!!!?????
It is unbelievable. Max 54.6mph (87 km/h) with 48V battery on an 24V brushed motor.
Is it on flat? Downhill?

What was the speed with 24V battery?

Lowell, what is your record?

Vow. !!!!!!?????
It is unbelievable. Max 54.6mph (87 km/h) with 48V battery on an 24V brushed motor.
Is it on flat? Downhill?

What was the speed with 24V battery?

Lowell, what is your record?

56.5mph on flat ground, 62.5mph downhill. (Alex Fraser bridge heading south. Not sure what the gradient is)

Since then I've raised the nominal voltage from 91.2v to 98.6v, so if I run the 503/26" setup again the speeds will definitely be quicker. At 98.6v the 5304/20" combo has very good low and medium speed performance, reaching 40mph in 7 seconds flat.

got the izip to!!!

put it on 36volt since I read karma article on 48volt I got 50KPH on flat asphalt road and 45 kph on gravel W/o human help (I weight 175lbs) notice that the motor get fairly hot ! but use it full power only for burst when needed .

Karma have you done something to keep it a bit colder ?? also I notice that you put a front derailleur :beer: Which type is it ? how did you get it to hold there since the battery rack is in the way ? got a got close up picture by any chance??

btw karma do you use your izip @ 48volt daily ??

sorry for all those question but I would really like to do this to since it is basically impossible to help the motor @ 50 kph with the oem geared system !!

thanks !!

56.5mph on flat ground, 62.5mph downhill. (Alex Fraser bridge heading south. Not sure what the gradient is)

Since then I've raised the nominal voltage from 91.2v to 98.6v, so if I run the 503/26" setup again the speeds will definitely be quicker. At 98.6v the 5304/20" combo has very good low and medium speed performance, reaching 40mph in 7 seconds flat.

You are using 90V+ to get 56.5 mph.
Ampheno could do 50kpm using 36V (=> 41mph using 48V)
But Karma could get nearly the same speed (54.6mph) at half the battery voltage (48 v).

That is why Karma's speed is incredible !!?
Wonder if anyone else could get the same speed as Karma using 48V battery !?

thanks for the great pics karma !!!

nice disk brake too that is not the stock front wheel right ??

so you don't cool down the motor @ all ex:hole drill in casing , fins, etc ??

This is a great thread, I have the same bike and it's a dog in stock form. I'm thinking of converting to the nano phosphate, A123 batteries a la dewalt power tools. That should be lot lighter than another SLA pair. yeah yeah, I know they cost their weight in gold.

A clever way to do!

Karma, keep the tips coming, I'm trying to do all the maintenance things you're doing on your bike. My bike with 200kms on it seem to be much lounder than when I bought it. I'm still a little scared to take the motor apart since you said not to take sides off or would have to totally dismantle.

I only get about 10 km/charge on it with stock batteries. Crappy tire never provided me with a charger, said they will phone me when they get one in, been near 3 months. I have to dismantle battery case each time to charge the sucker with a 1a 12v crappy tire trickle charger, ugh.

The ebike knew that you are upgrading to e-vespa and ran from you!

ok, I'm gonna hold off on increasing voltage.

i think it does. the controller is toast:)
What was the battery voltage did you use?

i have the ezip version guys what is the best way to boost my tourqe and speed just a little,should i go get a bigger motor say a 450 watt,or increase the voltage or both?i have currie setup 2oo watt brushed motor,lead acid battery 24 volts 10ah on my controller it says max ouput 25 amps output voltage 1-4 volts but this thing is sealed too so it looks like i cant tamper with that.any tips guys?

the currie motor can take a lot of voltage the izip is the same just add another 12volt battery in series to test
keep track how hot the motor and controller get. you may need to install the controller on the outside of the bike for cooling if its in a case.

hello !

I have been running my schwin i-zip wich is the same as the currie . on 36 volt for the pass 3 month .

36 volt cure the izip lack of torque and the motor and controller doesn't get hot . exept when I climb the hill @ my work wich is something like 18% for ~ 3km long all on gravel . then I simply get off my i-zip @ the bottom and wlk beside to save the motor and my legs :o no choice I guess only an gas scooter would do it .

other then that the only other problem I found is that @ full speed (36volt ) you simply have to pedal to fast to help the motor (missing a gear) so I don't use it full speed, until I put a front dérailleur like karma .

thanks for that guys so i can keep the same controller i take it just get another 12 volt battery then ok,i wont be needing full speed all the time just up a few little hills so i guess the motor wouldnt get too hot,like most things you just got to try one or two and see what works atleast your putting me in the right direction,big retail chains are going in big with these ebike here now and daily i get 10 or so folk asking me about mine,even the chicky babes haaaaa,they it.sydney has the worst public transport in the world i think its going backwards,petrol is getting to expensive about $1.50 per litre and folk really do want an alterative to cars.my bike beats the buses to the shops and its my main way off getting about now i do drive but not alot now i have the bike i see and chat to more chicky babes this way not jumping in the car again lol.

looks like exactly the same motor as mine on the ezip your frame is also the same i like these frames nice and strong they are,my bike is pretty much the same but not quiet as fast yet lol.

According to the calculator that would require over 3 kw of OUTPUT power, even if it was 70% efficient at that level it would require almost 4 kw input and would generate 1 kw of heat. 48v at over 80 amps, not going to happen.
The motor can't do that and survive. It is a good little motor but it gets hot very hot on steep hills at 24 volts.
I would have your speedo checked as it is off by a fair margin, would it be possible they left it in kilometer mode?
How fast did the speedo show in the video?

Hi everyone,
This is great. I am a newbie and now have bout the izip i was pursuaded by the great youtube vid. I also started a new thread not to be offensive to this great thread but didn't see the info (lol)
I want to upgrade this by adding another battery and doing mods and need some help in a very simple way.
I would like to add another battery and maybe upgrade it to 36Volts if possible. I just don't know where to start and begin or what even to look for!
1. I was thinking that on the side of the battery there is the 3 prong connector. what if there was a adapter that could be had that could access the battery and connect to another?
2. if i get another battery what model can i get and how is it hooked up? the stock izip battery is enclosed and i do not know how to modify it let alone access it.
So that is about it Karma you have done an incredible job i am hoping you can help me out and i am amazed at your talent. Do you freelance? anyway this is great and i hope to c u all in the fast lane soon.
Badnewsz

This thread contains great information. I've been reading this and other threads. I've purchased a CT Schwinn Izip with a spare 24V battery a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't install a rear rack because I tow my son's bike from time to time with a trailgator bar. I mounted the spare battery on the lower frame bar in a box I built. I move the battery cable from one battery to the other for now. I am more interested in gaining the maximum range compared to speed since I need to commute 15 km both ways and I can not recharge while at work.

I was wondering if someone has pictures of the battery once it's opened. I was hoping to make some kind of cable to connect the batteries in parallel using the existing connectors. Problem is, I can not find any cable to match these special cables they use. I am thinking of replacing them with regular computer connectors and cable from spare power supplies I have. Since both my batteries are still under warranty, I hesitate to mod them right away without knowing how it's built. I would also like to recharge both batteries together with the one charger that came with the bike. Any advice will be much appreciated.

Hi emergency,
Can someone please post how to add 12 volt to izip 24volt battery.
I am about to open it up, but need some help with the wiring.
I know there are two batterries in there and i have to drill a hole, to the new battery but need a really basic set of instructions to connect and add the new battery. Also just a note is 12 volt sla cool, and they are try in sell me two new batteries because they say, a new battery mixed with older ones will be a problem......help!!!!

anyone have pics on how to add a 12 volt to izip, or a thread where i can find a diy or how to?
Many thanks

:crash:
Need help adding a 12 volt to izip battery pack. need help with the wiring. a stuff needed. I need to go faster.....anyone have a how to do thread with pics? Much appreciated. apologize for the multiple request...
Thanks...and see you on the road....

I added a 3rd battery to the izip. I will post pictures of the wiring; I just opened the battery pack, snipped one of the battery wires, and ran the two snipped ends (with extension wires) to my 3rd battery (ie. all 3 batteries in series. Get the polarity correct. I drilled two small holes in the plastic battery pack to accomodate the two wires going to the 3rd batt on the rack).

Charger:
- now, you need to buy a 36v charger. I got one off ebay for $26USD delivered: 36v 1.5A. Works great in the 1 week I've had it. http://tinyurl.com/6lbs4m

I had to put an "izip connector" on the DC end of it. (An "izip connector" _looks_ like the IEC power connector on the back of your computer, but it's not quite - the pin used for AC ground is sideways. Where does one get an "izip connector"? I sacrificed a computer power cable, and drilled out the the AC ground pin receptacle - the izip uses this pin for motor power only; during charging, it is not used). Works great.

At 36volts, the motor runs hot, but not stinking hot. I suppose it is possible to cook it if you flog it hard ("flog hard" means full throttle at low speeds). I have about 200km on mine so far.

Performance:
With stock 24Volt:
- top speed is 28km/hr
- range on flat highway at top speed is 20km with no pedalling

With 36Volt:
- top speed is 40km/hr
- range on flat highway at top speed is 20km with no pedalling

Now, I want to add a 4th batt. I need to figure out forced-air cooling, or the motor'll cook for sure. Also need to put in sealed bearings and an oil nipple like Karma did. And a bigger front chainring would help - at 40km/hr, you have to pedal at several hundred RPM. And I still haven't decided whether the stock brakes are any good or not.

I see CanadianTire is selling the i-zip for $350 now - man, that's alot of bike for the money.

The Canadian Tire Izip is back up to $500 now, not $350. It appears like their «liquidation» sale was just an excuse to refuse their 14 days price protection policy to previous buyers. A normal liquidation sale usually last until all of the items are gone or the season is over.

[quote=frogblender;6961394]I added a 3rd battery to the izip. I will post pictures of the wiring; I just opened the battery pack, snipped one of the battery wires, and ran the two snipped ends (with extension wires) to my 3rd battery (ie. all 3 batteries in series. Get the polarity correct. I drilled two small holes in the plastic battery pack to accomodate the two wires going to the 3rd batt on the rack).

There's an easier way to get to the two leads joining the two batteries. Those two wires go to the fuse. All you need to do is Rube Goldberg a fuse clone that just mates with the contacts for the fuse and brings the leads out. Then you can put in an external fuse in series with your third battery. Or bring leads out of the controller box from the center pins on the switch and the lead to the controller. A battery attached that way will be in series with either the right or left battery pack. It needs MANY AH.

Last Friday I was about to order an Izip online and the internet slowed down and then the price suddenly jumped to $499.99 before I was able to get the order in.
I ended up getting the sale price honored in the store at $349.99, they have friendly managers.
If you missed out and really want one at that price, talk to the manager in the store.

Wow, his thread is so interesting. I just bought an izip and also would like to add a third 12volt battery for 36 volts. I take it that it is not possible to add a third battery by running a cable from the standard battery pack to the third battery and then from the third battery to the cable that goes to the motor (using the power supply-like cables that are already there)? Would this only make the battery in parallel instead of in serial? It would be nice to be able to add the third battery without it being obvious that it is an illegal mod. That way if you see the cops coming you just unplug the third battery and hook it up the way it is meant to be used.
I am looking forward to the tutorials that some of the posters said they are working on and if anyone has some information that can help me or links to other information it would be much appreciated. Feel free to e-mail me at gmail (same username). Thanks

Hi emergency,
Can someone please post how to add 12 volt to izip 24volt battery.
I am about to open it up, but need some help with the wiring.
I know there are two batterries in there and i have to drill a hole, to the new battery but need a really basic set of instructions to connect and add the new battery. Also just a note is 12 volt sla cool, and they are try in sell me two new batteries because they say, a new battery mixed with older ones will be a problem......help!!!!

You can add a 12v battery (or for that matter a 6V or 9V) in series with the connector inside the metal box on the rack that contains the controller and battery switch. The connection from the switch to the controller is a pull apart connector. Let the negative side of the connector stay connected and insert the negative side of your new 12v battery to the positive red wire from the switch and connect the positive side of the new battery to the positive red wire of the controller.

When you switch the power on via the switch it connects the new battery in series with the existing 24V battery - either the A rack battery or the B side rack battery if you have one. Because the battery packs supplied by Currie have a 40 amp fuse included in each battery pack your new battery is also protected by the fuse. You can insert your new battery wires through the box cutout at the back of the box beneath the seat. If you switch off the switch you can charge the Currie battery pack by connecting the supplied charger to the connector on the battery pack from Currie and the new battery can be charged with a separate 12V charger by connecting to the positive and negative terminals.

If you use Li-Ion or NiMh batteries you can get away with lower ah batteries because the voltage sag is less with these types of batteries for the same amp pull from the batteries. In other words you could use 12V 6ah instead of a 10ah SLA. Also I have tried a 18ah sla battery and was able to get significant speed and torque benefits. Unfortunately you discharge the 12V 10ah SLA batteries inside the Currie pack too much and will reduce the battery life (reduced number of charge/discharge cycles). Fortunately they are relatively cheap so the impact financially is small. SLA batteries like heavy discharge cycles but do need time to recover. If you find your batteries are loosing power stop for 15 minutes and they will have cooled as well as redistribute their charge more evenly within the battery. An added benefit (maybe a disadvantage) is that the low battery cut out of the Currie controller of 20V (24V version) is now reached with 3 12V batteries in series. This means that only about 6-7 volts exists for the 10ah batteries. This also might be a good reason to limit your new battery to 6V or 9V instead of 12V.

Hope this helps

I'm looking at this battery to get me to 36 volt for a low price, temporarily. I could use some more speed to get me through a 1/2 mile stretch of shoulderless road. It would be safer to go faster there.
Are these batteries decent?
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/6vo12ahagmri.html#

hello this is my first post on this forum...
i drive a ct/schwinn izip and have added another battery
did it the first day i bought it...4.5 months ago
i couldn't be happier well...read on
with 3 bats 12v 12a fully charged=40v
these bats started to sag so i relaced them
in the orig case with 2x yardworks 21v limn
fit perfect and took 24lbs of this bike
i will post some pics when i can resize them
this bike now has 3000+kms(on sla's)
range with me 220lbs is 12 km
and power is up to 42volts
freewheel speed is 54.4 kmh
with me on it 45kmh
i do plan on adding 2 more

thx wasp

Interesting, is this the battery?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396673793&bmUID=1219202249589&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443303058&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true#product_aa

and how did you connect them together and what charger do you use to recharge them?
If you could post some pics I'd be grateful.

Interesting, is this the battery?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396673793&bmUID=1219202249589&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443303058&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true#product_aa

and how did you connect them together and what charger do you use to recharge them?
If you could post some pics I'd be grateful.

your link just goes to main site not product
the batteries are for yardwork hedger/trimmer/chainsaw/polesaw...ect
20v lithium green silver stripe down middle and black rubberized grip
the chargers are from yardworks 29 bucks each
my wiring is a bit of a hack job right now but i will post pics soon...

thx wasp

hmm i was looking to upgrade my one battery, i have a lifepo4 pack running off the sla pack that came with the izip. looks like a good idea and the price is good.

im intersted to see how you set it up even if its a hack job wasp. i could come up with a holder made of plexyglass that the battery could snap on to, for easy charging.

my hack job
i had already hacked my orig bat(the sla's)and box on my izip
i opened up my bat box and removed sla's and noticed my orig fuse was powder
so i cut it out...now you will see the pos and negative going to the switch(in box)
i put a line out of the box hooked to these...so i have a + and - going out
next i made a couple of cable for the bats again + and - for each bat
so i now have 6 12g wires coming out of the box 2 for each bat and 2 for switch
i drilled 6 holes just big enough to pass wire through at the top of the box
were it slots on bike...above the pin that holds it inplace(the box)
i went to ct and got some conecters and wired them on each bat
the other side of each connecter i put on some 12g wire and on the other end i put regular female plugs to go on pin of charger
so when i charge i don't have to remove the bats or case
i just plug them in
now when there charged i hook up some jumpers
+ bottom bat to - of top bat(jumper 1)
- of bottom bat to switch -(jumper 2)
+ of upper bat to switch +(jumper 3)
i tried orig to just 4 wire it but arked a few times and said *uck it 6 wire for now
no damage sustained to bats ...love that bms...hence no main fuse
i will post some pics...just hate resizing to 100kb

thx wasp

wasp did you have to hack the bms like the dewalts or can you use straight out of the box

wasp did you have to hack the bms like the dewalts or can you use straight out of the box

these are robust bms's
i use the bats the way they were produced
each bat will put out 31amps
talk to the yardworks tech support back in june
and got some specs...had to give him my home number
and wait for a call back after talking 4 awhile and telling
him about my use he eased up and gave some info up
but i couldn't get the scematics for bms but asked anyways

so i use them as is
also lvc is 15 or 15.5

hopethis helps

thx wasp

thanks for the info now if i can find a way to buy from ct i am in the us and can't seem to get into their web site you need a canada zip and prov

http://i37.tinypic.com/2pqw8sp.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/208k70x.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/30rldh0.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/2z3nu3a.jpg


http://i34.tinypic.com/72uoie.jpg

nice how long do thay last before thay start to drop in output?

first being lithium they just go till lvc kicks in
full bore=10-12km 75%=15km
the knee is about 8km=19v per bat

thx wasp

Hello everyone! this is my first post on this forum. I just bought an IZIP from Canadian tire. I loved it from the first ride.

After considering all the time and money it would cost to build an electric car, I've decided to give the IZIP a chance. Perhaps, I can use 3-4 days each week.

I've already bought a second battery because my ride to work is about 1 hour 45 min with a regular bike, so it's neccesary to keep that electric motor cranking if I want to bike to work on a regular basis.

Anyways, I've got 2 doozey questions for you. Has anyone been able to identify or source the 3 prong power socket that is on the battery packs? I noticed that the plug on the 24v charger actually says '250v 10A' so thats a good indicator that Schwinn doesn't use a proprietary configuration.

second question: I've gone to the unitemotor.com website and found a 200W gear motor that looks just like the 450W motor on the IZIP. Does anyone know an onlive source for purchasing replacement 450W motors?

Also, I was considering using my son's little tikes trailer with 2 deep cycle batteries in it. It estimate that the trailer will be darn heavy, but I might end up with a battery system that could go all day ( ie approx 160Ah) Have people been doing this? is there a general concensus about it? good? bad? and for what reasons?

Anyways, Greeting to all. I'm an electronics technologist by trade, so if I can be of use anywhere just give me a shout.

Regards

Tyler

Thanks Wasp for the pics.

For those wishing to order online from CT there is a free shipping code until August 22 for orders over $25. Free shipping code AUGUST333

(Source of the code redflagdeals.com)

Hello everyone! this is my first post on this forum. I just bought an IZIP from Canadian tire. I loved it from the first ride.

After considering all the time and money it would cost to build an electric car, I've decided to give the IZIP a chance. Perhaps, I can use 3-4 days each week.

I've already bought a second battery because my ride to work is about 1 hour 45 min with a regular bike, so it's neccesary to keep that electric motor cranking if I want to bike to work on a regular basis.

Anyways, I've got 2 doozey questions for you. Has anyone been able to identify or source the 3 prong power socket that is on the battery packs? I noticed that the plug on the 24v charger actually says '250v 10A' so thats a good indicator that Schwinn doesn't use a proprietary configuration.

second question: I've gone to the unitemotor.com website and found a 200W gear motor that looks just like the 450W motor on the IZIP. Does anyone know an onlive source for purchasing replacement 450W motors?

Also, I was considering using my son's little tikes trailer with 2 deep cycle batteries in it. It estimate that the trailer will be darn heavy, but I might end up with a battery system that could go all day ( ie approx 160Ah) Have people been doing this? is there a general concensus about it? good? bad? and for what reasons?

Anyways, Greeting to all. I'm an electronics technologist by trade, so if I can be of use anywhere just give me a shout.

Regards

Tyler

the motors are one and the same...take a look at tnc scooters they have that motor for 50 bucks also a 36v model that pulls a few less amps
you say "I'm an electronics technologist by trade" then why stick with lo tech heavy sla's?
your orig bat's are 12ah each but you only have 12ah at 24v
even taking into account your second set of bats again 2x12v12ah@24v=12ah
total=24ah@24v...160-24=136....how big are those other bats in trailer?60-70ah
as for the charger...junk get a good one like soniel or BT
how many kms do you travel or plan to in a day?
the best mods to my bike are going to 36v(another sla)
and after 3000+km my limn yardworks batteries
took a bunch of weight off(24pounds) wich made it feel like a bike again
great ebike for the price and cheap replacement parts
i would bring it in and have all bearings greased as they cheap out on grease on the assembley line,crank,rear wheel and gearbox
enjoy i know i have been

thx wasp