Bicycle Mechanics - dork disc -- yay or nay?

So does the so-called plastic "dork disc" a legitimate safety feature on an 80's road bike or can it be taken off without worry of me going flying over the handlebars?

get rid of it.

get da' chrome disc

So does the so-called plastic "dork disc" a legitimate safety feature on an 80's road bike [QUOTE]



Yepper, the "so called" plastic dork disc (which is a stupid label if I ever heard one) was indeed a legitimite safety feature. In those days most bikes used DT friction shifters, and if you were'nt careful shifting to the lowest cog you could overshift and put the chain right into the spokes.

You can pretty much guess what would happen after that. :)

[QUOTE]



Yepper, the "so called" plastic dork disc (which is a stupid label if I ever heard one) was indeed a legitimite safety feature. In those days most bikes used DT friction shifters, and if you were'nt careful shifting to the lowest cog you could overshift and put the chain right into the spokes.

You can pretty much guess what would happen after that. :)
So you're saying you would leave it on? I use index shifting 99% of the time.

You don't need it if the limit screws are set right on your rear derailer.

If you're a Fred, leave it on.

There is no safety issue with removing it.
As stated above, so long as the limit screws are set correctly, your chain shouldn't overshift. I took the disc off of my mtn.bike when I changed the cassette. My road bike still has one, but it's small and black and you wouldn't notice it unless looking for it. If I take the cassette off for any reason, I'll probably remove it (the cassette would have to come off to take this one off-unless I tried to cut it), otherwise, I'll leave it on-like I said, it really isn't noticeable.

You don't need it if the limit screws are set right on your rear derailer.

Above is theoretically correct.

However, I've dropped a chain into the spokes a couple of times in the past 7+ years while mountain biking. It was probably due to a combination of shifting + climbing + rough terrain. Luckily, I was going slow, felt the chain slip and let-up on the pedals before any major damage.

I wouldn't use it on a modern road bike. But mountain bikes are a different matter. It's all too easy to prang the rear dérailleur on a limb or rock and then all bets about the lower chain limit are off. Drop the chain inside and you may well eat the dérailleur and wheel, after munching on a face full of dirt.

Make your decision based on calculated risk, not on fears of being called a "Fred".

I leave mine on just to piss people off.

Really though, my bike came with one, and the real question is, why bother removing it? It weighs approximately nothing and provides some protection against an admittedly rare chance of overshifting, but a rare chance with severe consequences. So what does it hurt, other than one's OCP sensibilities?

I say, defy convention. Rock the dork disc.

the real question is, why bother removing it?

Eventually it breaks, and starts rattling around, or worse - preventing the cassette from freewheeling... this has been my experience. No reason to take it off before that occurs, though.


Some of the new Cannondales have gigantic ugly huge black spoke protectors.

I think they are MORE useful on index systems, if you 1) didn't have the limit screws set right and 2) switch to friction.
I just checked my bikes and it's 50-50, but all the bikes ridden by my wife and kids have 'em. My 12-year-old daughter just loves the huge chrome one on her Ficelle.
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[QUOTE]



Yepper, the "so called" plastic dork disc (which is a stupid label if I ever heard one) was indeed a legitimite safety feature. In those days most bikes used DT friction shifters, and if you were'nt careful shifting to the lowest cog you could overshift and put the chain right into the spokes.

You can pretty much guess what would happen after that. :)

Nope. All derailers have limit screws...even friction downtube controlled ones. The dork disk is a back up for people who don't know how to adjust their derailer so that the chain doesn't move too far inboard and run off the back of the freewheel (hub). No bike needs them if properly adjusted.

As for sucking a chain into the spokes, it's not all that bad. If it happens, stop pedalling!

Carefully remove it and put it on scambay.

Couldn't you have asked a more straightforward question - which chain lube is the best, or something?

My buddy's Basso is en route to a framebuilder to have the der hanger replaced after his suckingspoke incident. He'd say, leave the disk on.

Me, I take mine off, following the adjust-it-correctly-and-there's-no-problem philosophy. Unless you're going for the retro look with your 80's ride, in which case you gotta wear crochet-back gloves, too.

If your derailleur is properly set up and you ensure that it stays that way, take it off.

There is no safety issue with removing it.
As stated above, so long as the limit screws are set correctly, your chain shouldn't overshift.

+1. Definitely take it off. I heartly recommend it.

Now, if you should happen to shift into the spokes and you live in the St Louis area, PM me and I'll gladly give you my "I shifted into the spokes and buggered up my 8 driveside spokes BF special. Hope to hear from you soon.

I wouldn't use it on a modern road bike. But mountain bikes are a different matter. It's all too easy to prang the rear dérailleur on a limb or rock and then all bets about the lower chain limit are off. Drop the chain inside and you may well eat the dérailleur and wheel, after munching on a face full of dirt.

Make your decision based on calculated risk, not on fears of being called a "Fred".

Do you really faceplant in such a case? If the front wheel blocks, then yes, I can see how you'd endo, but rear wheel?

You pay your money and you take your choice.

I don't have them on myself although I have given a felow club member a lift home once as I was passing in a car and saw him stoped on the side of the road checking out the rear wheel. His chain had gone off the largest sprocket into the spokes, pulled the rear derailer into the spokes as well and generaly made a mess of things.

Regards, Anthony

Those who don't need it don't need to ask.

As for sucking a chain into the spokes, it's not all that bad. If it happens, stop pedalling!

Problem is, pedalling or not, if the wheel is still turning, it can grab the chain and drag the derailleur into the spokes, bending it or even tearing it from the hanger.

My take is this: if the derailleur is properly adjusted, you may never have a problem.

Just like if you always drive properly, you may never need your seatbelt...

(betcha wear yours all the time!)



I don't have one, but I am willing to accept whatever consequences should arise from my choice. After all, I own a shop. Inevitably, we get a few guys a year who knuckle under to peer pressure and take them off. They pfutz with their derailleur, then suddenly one day "I was just riding along when the derailleur fell off my bike! That's covered under warranty, right?" Then we look at it. No disk. Broken hanger-sometimes smashed seatstay. All because the chain got lodged between the cassette and spokes due to the absence of a bantam-weight piece of apparently manhood devastating plastic.

The women are smarter. I've yet to have a woman ask me to remove their spoke protector. It's always the husband or boyfriend...:rolleyes:

Do you really faceplant in such a case? If the front wheel blocks, then yes, I can see how you'd endo, but rear wheel?
Uhhh ... "sudden deceleration" ?

Uhhh ... "sudden deceleration" ?

When it's the rear wheel to block, you will fall, probably but not necessarily. A faceplate seems very unlikely in that case.

Take it from someone who falls every 2 months, almost on a cue. OK, I *might* have learned how to fall, but still, I think I'm qualified.

, why bother removing it? Because the plastic ones turn brittle fairly quickly and start to break away on their own

provides some protection against an admittedly rare chance of overshifting,Don't kid yourself, the plastic breaks far too easily to provide any real measure of protection

So what does it hurt, other than one's OCP sensibilities?Other than providing a false sense of security to the Fred's of the world, they usually break off on the side of the road or worse out on the trail adding even more ugly garbage


I say, defy convention. Rock the dork disc.Unless you're rocking an old school chrome special from back in the day (in which case more power to you) lose the dork disc, and learn to adjust your dérailleur.

Because the plastic ones turn brittle fairly quickly and start to break away on their own
Don't kid yourself, the plastic breaks far too easily to provide any real measure of protection
Other than providing a false sense of security to the Fred's of the world, they usually break off on the side of the road or worse out on the trail adding even more ugly garbageUnless you're rocking an old school chrome special from back in the day (in which case more power to you) lose the dork disc, and learn to adjust your dérailleur.

Ah, the "Fred" crap. I suspect that's why people remove them in the first place. I do know how to adjust my derailer, but I don't feel the need to prove my macho-ness (or should I say, OCP-ness) by removing the disc. Or as a previous poster put it, I know how to drive but I still wear my seat belts. This has to be the most ridiculous bit of peer pressure I've ever seen.

Here's a question: what might cause the disc to break on a road bike? Particularly since that was your only coherent reason for removing it other than OCP sensibilities.

Here's a question: what might cause the disc to break on a road bike? Particularly since that was your only coherent reason for removing it other than OCP sensibilities.
Age and vibration. I've seen dork discs on road bikes get brittle after a few months, to the point that I could break them with a tap of a finger. The only "dork discs" that were any good were the old chrome ones
http://www.bunchobikes.com/detail42.jpg
The plastic ones don't offer any substantial protection to begin with and the protection offered drops with age.

The ultimate Fred is one that removes the dorkdisk to create a false sense of non-Freddishness.

Age and vibration. I've seen dork discs on road bikes get brittle after a few months, to the point that I could break them with a tap of a finger. The only "dork discs" that were any good were the old chrome ones
http://www.bunchobikes.com/detail42.jpg
The plastic ones don't offer any substantial protection to begin with and the protection offered drops with age.

I'm calling BS. The one on my bike is 4 years old and quite pliable (for evidentiary purposes, I touched the thing for the first time since I've owned it). It's also fairly thick. Don't use evidence from Xmart bikes.

I expect they offer decent protection in decent shape, as the lateral force exerted by the RD is quite slim - overshifting damage comes from drive power once the thing goes into the spokes. It doesn't take much force to keep the thing out of the spokes in the first place.

In any event, from accounts of mechanics the things offer some protection, and pose no risk of harm. And just so you're happy, should mine ever break, I'll pick up the pieces and install a chrome plated one.

As for the name calling (Fred, dork, whatever) - I didn't care when I got it from the jocks in high school, and I don't care now. I don't hear much from fellow cyclists, though, to be honest - probably embarassed they're getting passed by a Fred.

I'm calling BS. The one on my bike is 4 years old and quite pliable (for evidentiary purposes, I touched the thing for the first time since I've owned it). It's also fairly thick. Don't use evidence from Xmart bikes.Call BS all you want to. Over the last 25 years I've been around and wrenching on bikes I've seen my fair share of broken plastic dork discs. Especially the clear ones.


I expect they offer decent protection in decent shape, as the lateral force exerted by the RD is quite slim - overshifting damage comes from drive power once the thing goes into the spokes. It doesn't take much force to keep the thing out of the spokes in the first place.You'd expect that, but the reality is that they fail all to often. Overshifting damage is prevented by proper adjustment of the dérailleur not by a silly piece of plastic. Of course there's much to be said for novices NOT taking them off, largely because they invariably twiddle with the dérailleur screws without knowing what they're doing


I'll pick up the pieces and install a chrome plated one.Good for you. I also plan on using a chrome one on my road build along with friction bar-end shifters


As for the name calling (Fred, dork, whatever) - I didn't care when I got it from the jocks in high school, and I don't care now.Sure ;)

I'm with Underbridge.
You flatlanders don't really use your DRs anyway.
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I'm with Underbridge.
You flatlanders don't really use your DRs anyway.
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Again with the presumptions. :rolleyes:
No, I LIVE in Florida, I'm FROM Minnesota. (Read a profile sometime) You assume that I've never lived anywhere else. Unfortunately you're not the first to assume this incorrectly either.

I've been to Minnestoa. Not hilly by my standards, either.
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I've been to Minnestoa. Not hilly by my standards, either.
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Fine then, would you consider North and South Carolina and northern Georgia hilly?

Again you presume too much.

It would be like me assuming since you live in Maine you eat lobster at every meal with Stephen King while telling tourists "Ayuh, you'll a wicked hahd time gettin' up theyah with the snow 'cause that blizzahd they had the lahst night theyah was a wicked pissah, ayuh!" Just ain't so

I do not have discs on any of my bikes, all of which have friction shifting. My rules are simple: 1) keep the derailleurs adjusted properly; 2) replace the chain when it has elongated by 1/2 % (1/16" per 24 half-links); and 3) shift into the largest cog only when going slowly, and only from second. To make that last rule easy to follow, I always carry a grannie gear which is one shift below the lowest gear I normally need.

Ugh... the day after posting to this thread, I had a spoke break - its demise hastened by damage caused by a chain dropping off the big cog onto the spoke ends several years ago.

So... It Happened to Me - damage enabled by a missing dork disc AND mechanical failure (freehub wouldn't coast) due to a broken disc.

I leave it on, because I'd really rather not set out on a ride pondering in my head whether it was such a good idea taking the disc off.

Plus, suppose the chain did fall back there and messed up the spokes and rear deraileur, I don't have the money to replace them. I think I'll leave the $.50 piece of plastic there and put it out of my mind.

I leave them on, but don't replace them if they fail and I have to remove the pieces.

That being said: Dressed in full "Fred" with helmet & gloves of course, I stopped by the Wawa on my way to the computer store, parked my Schwin Hybrid with rack (w/bungee), barbag, lights, mirror, and requsite dork disk, against the ballard/ballastrade and started to lock my bike up.

This high zoot sports coupe parks in the space next to me. Guy gets out wearing full kit, no bike in or on the car, I say "Hi, how ya doin'." as we can both tell each other rides. His comment was, in a snyde delivery, "If you do any real shopping you're going to need a trailer.". My first thought was if I'm going to do any real shopping, I'm going to the grocery, not a convenience store.

I smiled and said, "You've got a nice bike too." and left him with a quite puzzled look on his face.

I painted flowers on mine with my mommy's nail polish.

Nope. All derailers have limit screws...even friction downtube controlled ones. The dork disk is a back up for people who don't know how to adjust their derailer so that the chain doesn't move too far inboard and run off the back of the freewheel (hub). No bike needs them if properly adjusted.

As for sucking a chain into the spokes, it's not all that bad. If it happens, stop pedalling!


Whew.....looks like you've completely missed the point.

As for sucking a chain into the spokes, its not all that bad. If it happens it'll just rip out your spokes on your fancy $400 wheel and maybe cause you to crash and get run over by a soccer mom.

Each time this subject becomes a thread the manhood among us really gets separated from the boys.
alf

[color=blue]Fine then, would you consider North and South Carolina and northern Georgia hilly?
N. Georgia: Not only yes but hell yes!

The Carolinas are majority plains, rising through the piedmont (hilly) into mountains. (Not much of the latter in SC).


Btw, you gots that Maine accent down pat.

Each time this subject becomes a thread the manhood among us really gets separated from the boys.
alf


Internet forums are like that. Simply a place for someone to rudely "step on you" like you dont know what you're talking about.

Its crazy. Why cant everybody just offer a little courtesy.

Whew.....looks like you've completely missed the point.

As for sucking a chain into the spokes, its not all that bad. If it happens it'll just rip out your spokes on your fancy $400 wheel and maybe cause you to crash and get run over by a soccer mom.

Didn't miss the point at all. I've been riding bikes for 30 years and the dork disk is the first thing I take off. I've sucked chain into the spokes twice. Both times it was because I didn't adjust the derailer limit screws properly. And, both times, I eased off pedaling as soon as it happened. The freewheel mechanism will generally keep the chain from diving too far into the spokes.

As for sucking the chain into the wheel, causing a skid, followed by a crash and getting run over by a soccer mom, have you never skidded the rear wheel of a bicycle? If you can't keep the bike up during a skid, you need to learn some handling skills.

OK, it may be obvious by this point but this is not a matter of whose opinion is correct but of how you balance the option. First, as some have mentioned it is quite possible to shift into the spoke with the limit screw set properly for the normal derailleur position. Some possibilities: Bent derailleur hanger, twisted derailleur, foreign object entering the drive train, or a broken spoke. Anyone who believes der adjustment will guarantee you won't have a problem never worked in a bike shop.

Now, which do you value more: A clean, sleek appearance to your bike and silent operation, or the assurance that you will not dump the der into the spokes, potentially ruining your rear hanger, dropout, derailleur chain or spokes. I am not loading the question - those are simply the choices.

I might note that I never use one myself. Why not? I value my bike enough that I never dump it on the ground and always check it over thoroughly if it has possibly been damaged. I can easily choose the no guard option because the odds of suffering damage are miniscule, given that I only do road riding. If you value riding in nasty off-road conditions then that certainly should have weight in your decision.

A final note is that it's still possible to have problems with a guard, but they are typically of the nuisance variety - because if the chain gets stuck behind the cogs there is typically no significant damage. The chain tends to slip on the guard and cause fewer problems.

They can actually serve more than one purpose. When combined with a big chrome crankset, you get visual symmetry:

http://www.geocities.com/sldbconsumer10/1971/71ccpg12b.jpg

OK, it may be obvious by this point but this is not a matter of whose opinion is correct but of how you balance the option. First, as some have mentioned it is quite possible to shift into the spoke with the limit screw set properly for the normal derailleur position. Some possibilities: Bent derailleur hanger, twisted derailleur, foreign object entering the drive train, or a broken spoke. Anyone who believes der adjustment will guarantee you won't have a problem never worked in a bike shop.

Now, which do you value more: A clean, sleek appearance to your bike and silent operation, or the assurance that you will not dump the der into the spokes, potentially ruining your rear hanger, dropout, derailleur chain or spokes. I am not loading the question - those are simply the choices.

I might note that I never use one myself. Why not? I value my bike enough that I never dump it on the ground and always check it over thoroughly if it has possibly been damaged. I can easily choose the no guard option because the odds of suffering damage are miniscule, given that I only do road riding. If you value riding in nasty off-road conditions then that certainly should have weight in your decision.

A final note is that it's still possible to have problems with a guard, but they are typically of the nuisance variety - because if the chain gets stuck behind the cogs there is typically no significant damage. The chain tends to slip on the guard and cause fewer problems.


Thank you for weighing in from the 'do as I say not as I do' side of the fence;) Ever think that some of the rest of us have the same concern for our bikes? And the same diligence?

As for off-road riding, I've never pranged a derailer on anything. And I've been riding mountain bikes since 1984. The only time I've ever even bent a derailer hanger was when I layed my road bike down on a corner. Not even much of an issue there.

Thank you for weighing in from the 'do as I say not as I do' side of the fence;) .

To be fair I did not say what to do. I also have never run the der into the spokes. It's a balancing of priorities and likelihoods. If avoiding the possibility is important enough to put on the guard then do so, if not leave it off.

Didn't miss the point at all. I've been riding bikes for 30 years

As for sucking the chain into the wheel, causing a skid, followed by a crash and getting run over by a soccer mom, have you never skidded the rear wheel of a bicycle? If you can't keep the bike up during a skid, you need to learn some handling skills.



You're still missing the point!!!!

This is not about you, or how well you keep your bike up during a skid, or how well you adjust your derailleur limit screws. Not everybody has the finely honed bike handling skills that your so called 30 years of bike riding has given you. It is quite possible that there are some people out there with less bike handling skills than you, or not as adept at bike maintenance. What about them?? What about sweet little Aunt Sara, who dont know beans about bikes, but wants to take up bike riding in her golden years for her health, and winds up crashing her beloved townie because she dont know how to keep her derailleur adjusted and her chain went into her spokes. What are you going to say to her, "you need to learn some bike handling skills???" - That hoss, is exactly why spoke protectors started showing up on bikes.

You have to see a bigger picture here. And as to your 30 years, what is that, your bike resume? Hell, I've been riding since I was 11, when I got my first "buzz bike" in 1967.

Think again before you "step on" somebody and tell them "nope"

You're still missing the point!!!!

I got you point entirely. Here is your point. I do note that you said "was"





Yepper, the "so called" plastic dork disc (which is a stupid label if I ever heard one) was indeed a legitimite safety feature. In those days most bikes used DT friction shifters, and if you were'nt careful shifting to the lowest cog you could overshift and put the chain right into the spokes.



First, most bikes today have index systems so bringing up friction shifters is a red herring. Second, even with friction shifting, derailer haven't changed in basic form since at least the late 70's. They all have limit screws to keep them from shifting into the spokes.

As I said, a properly adjusted derailer won't over shift into the spokes. Properly adjusted does not mean just the limit screws or the cable. It includes the derailer hanger. If you bend the derailer hanger somehow, that is an improperly adjusted bike.


This is not about you, or how well you keep your bike up during a skid, or how well you adjust your derailleur limit screws. Not everybody has the finely honed bike handling skills that your so called 30 years of bike riding has given you. It is quite possible that there are some people out there with less bike handling skills than you, or not as adept at bike maintenance. What about them?? What about sweet little Aunt Sara, who dont know beans about bikes, but wants to take up bike riding in her golden years for her health, and winds up crashing her beloved townie because she dont know how to keep her derailleur adjusted and her chain went into her spokes. What are you going to say to her, "you need to learn some bike handling skills???" - That hoss, is exactly why spoke protectors started showing up on bikes.



Unless sweet little Aunt Sara is bashing her beloved Townie on rocks, she ain't gonna bend her derailer hanger enough to shift into the spokes...not if the bike is properly adjusted in the first place. Limit screws don't go out of adjustment, period. You have to fiddle with them. And you are going to have to put some serious hurt on a derailer hanger to bend it far enough to shift off the back of the cassette. The kind you get from dumping sweet little Aunt Sara on the derailer side of her beloved Townie at a good rate of speed.


You have to see a bigger picture here. And as to your 30 years, what is that, your bike resume? Hell, I've been riding since I was 11, when I got my first "buzz bike" in 1967.

Think again before you "step on" somebody and tell them "nope"

I have seen the bigger picture. The dork disk on bikes serves no real useful purpose if the bike is properly adjusted. Big Box store bike probably need them but then those bikes can't be adjusted properly.

And if you want to get into a pissin' match, I've been riding since I was 7 but I didn't get my first derailer bike until the very early 70's. I didn't start riding seriously until the late 70's and, since then, I've owned 28 bikes mostly mountain bikes with a few road bikes and tandems thrown in. I've done my own maintenance on all of my bikes since 81 or so. I ride to work an average of 113 times per year. Since 1988 (the first year for which I have records) I've ridden to work 2194 days out of 4940 (as of 12/31/06). I have ridden at least one day per month since 1981, including getting hit by a car and spending 6 weeks in a cast and breaking an ankle and spending 6 weeks in a cast.

So do you need more of a resume? I can give you a whole lot more detail, like the amount of calories I've used and the number of jelly donut equivalents for the gas I've saved for the last 19 years.