Foo - Let's devalue the HS diploma even more

Nowadays the high school diploma is already pretty worthless in the real world; hell its getting harder and harder to get a job with a college education. Does this mean we should just give everyone a high school diploma regardless of whether they actually know anything? Most would say "no", but some parents and students in Fort Worth staged a protest outside of the school district headquarters because students who failed to pass the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills (TAKS) test were not going to be allowed to graduate. The picture below is from said protest and a picture really is worth a thousand words: Are kids, there knot dum!

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/wfaa/05-07/0525_kidswalk380x285.jpg

Link to the story:
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa070524_wz_taksprotest.6fe879b.html#

On a side note, does RyanF live in Fort Worth?

I think W "graduated" from that school.

The picture below is from said protest and a picture really is worth a thousand words: Are kids, there knot dum!
The sign that the woman is holding reads: "Let are kids walk"

A bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma.

An associates degree is the new GED.

A bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma.

That's truer than any of us would want to believe... Had I ended my education with my B.S. in Biology I might have ended up flipping burgers.

"Let are kids walk." Wow, a picture really IS worth a thousand words.

Parents should be outraged at their kids for not learning, at the teachers for failing to teach, and at themselves for not helping them to learn. Handing an uneducated kid a piece of paper isn't going to make them any smarter. One would think that the parents would be up in arms about making sure that the students had/got what they needed to remediate all the stuff they failed, but in classic American style they're just fighting to let them slide.

Sad.

Handing an uneducated kid a piece of paper isn't going to make them any smarter.
One root cause of this entitlement to a graduation goes all the way back to kindergarten. These days little 5 year olds get dressed up in gowns and mortarboards because it's cute and parents want to believe their kids have achieved something.

This seems to be part of the recent phenomenon of telling every kid that they are unique and the greatest so as to defend the kid's ego against the cruelties of the world. No one fails so that no one is left out. It's the same as having kids play soccer, but then giving the losers a trophy for their efforts.

This protection against failure gets translated up through the years and we get the uneducated protesters pictured above still trying to keep their kids from the real world.

Kids have to fail to move forward. Parents have to help their kids when they fail, not blame the system. If the system was so corrupt, then there would be no kids who could read, but we know this is not true. If they system is infiltrated with crime and disruption, then that's a different cause of failure that needs to be addressed and not blamed.

Quit blaming the system and start making a difference by putting the responsibility for success on the person who needs it most: the student.

A friend from a neighboring county was showing me his daughter's spelling test. One of the words was "flow" and it was marked wrong. He and his daughter could not understand why the teacher had marked it wrong so, when he picked her up from school the next day, he asked the teacher what the problem was.

"Well, that's not how flow is spelled."

"Just how would you spell flow?" Jerry asked.

"f-l-o-o-r," the teacher responded. Katie will be going to private school next year.

One root cause of this entitlement to a graduation goes all the way back to kindergarten. These days little 5 year olds get dressed up in gowns and mortarboards because it's cute and parents want to believe their kids have achieved something.

This seems to be part of the recent phenomenon of telling every kid that they are unique and the greatest so as to defend the kid's ego against the cruelties of the world. No one fails so that no one is left out. It's the same as having kids play soccer, but then giving the losers a trophy for their efforts.

This protection against failure gets translated up through the years and we get the uneducated protesters pictured above still trying to keep their kids from the real world.

Kids have to fail to move forward. Parents have to help their kids when they fail, not blame the system. If the system was so corrupt, then there would be no kids who could read, but we know this is not true. If they system is infiltrated with crime and disruption, then that's a different cause of failure that needs to be addressed and not blamed.

Quit blaming the system and start making a difference by putting the responsibility for success on the person who needs it most: the student.

How do you explain the student referenced in the article that was one of the best in their class, with a 3.5 gpa, but still failed the texas state test? Did they just copy and cheat their way through school?

There are some lingering issues with having "high stakes" standardized testing to determine who gets a high school diploma. What about special ed students or students with musical/art/technical talent? How are they represented or tested on the tests?

How do you explain the student referenced in the article that was one of the best in their class, with a 3.5 gpa, but still failed the texas state test? Did they just copy and cheat their way through school?

There are some lingering issues with having "high stakes" testing to determine who gets a high school diploma. What about special ed students or students with musical/art/technical talent? How are they represented or tested on the tests?

I explain it by teachers skewing grades to bolster their own success.

I explain it by teachers skewing grades to bolster their own success.
Wouldn't every student have a 3.5, or better yet a 4.0 then?

Sundance square is nice in fort worth.

How do you explain the student referenced in the article that was one of the best in their class, with a 3.5 gpa, but still failed the texas state test? Did they just copy and cheat their way through school?

The same way grade inflation is being challenged at Harvard University (http://chronicle.com/free/v47/i30/30b02401.htm).

Everyone's getting A's and B's these days. B is the new 'average.'

Nobody wants a C anymore. That's like failing!

Standardized testing is messing things up in a way, as well. Too much time prepping to fill in bubbles, not enough time reading, analyzing, writing, or experimenting.

Standardized testing is messing things up in a way, as well. Too much time prepping to fill in bubbles, not enough time reading, analyzing, writing, or experimenting.
So you implement a standardized test to determine if one graduates?

Talk about progress.

So you implement a standardized test to determine if one graduates?

Talk about progress.

I think it's TOTALLY grade inflation. Even at the good state schools around here, you can't get into college with a 3.5 GPA. The high schools have to know this, so you change the grading system to make the students more competitive. I mean, why use all those resources actually TEACHING when you can just arbitrarily raise everyone's grades and make them look better on paper?

I don't care WHAT's on the test. If a high school senior with a 3.5-4.0 GPA can't pass a state-given standardized test that measures the minimum standards for high school graduation, then people aren't getting the GPA's they deserve.

So you implement a standardized test to determine if one graduates?

Talk about progress.
One test to determine who graduates versus four years of accumulated effort and a set number of courses/credits passed?

Well, if you focus on that one test, then the four years are spent in preparation for that, instead of pursuing a wide array of topics to round out the individual and challenge them to pass courses one at a time.

Standardized testing for rote learning, such as math and grammar, is fine, but not at the expense of a well rounded and well educated person. It should be about education, not just spewing back remembered facts.

Just my take.

If a high school senior with a 3.5-4.0 GPA can't pass a state-given standardized test that measures the minimum standards for high school graduation, then people aren't getting the GPA's they deserve.
Well, even with grade inflation, high schoolers wanting to get into a good school will have to do very well on the SAT and/or ACT tests.

If you want standardized testing to determine who goes to what college, there you go. They've been around forever and if a student wants to do well they will usually find a way to prepare for it, whether through a course or a test prep book.

So is this conversation about getting into college, or just getting out of high school? Two different beasts.

Nobody wants a C anymore. That's like failing!




Here at MSU it IS failing. Get a C, repeat the class.

One of the main reasons I dropped my pre-med major was because 4 years of college, 4 years of med school, 5 years of residency, then another 3-5 years of field specific school.

I'd be damn near 40 before I became a self sufficient doctor with $200,000 in school loans. All of this for the income that an engineering graduate with 2 years of field study could easily make.

No thank you.

Imagine Whirled Peas!

How do you explain the student referenced in the article that was one of the best in their class, with a 3.5 gpa, but still failed the texas state test? Did they just copy and cheat their way through school?

There are some lingering issues with having "high stakes" standardized testing to determine who gets a high school diploma. What about special ed students or students with musical/art/technical talent? How are they represented or tested on the tests?If I were in HS now instead of 30 years ago I would have a problem with standardized testing having a lot of weight. I was a 3.5 GPA student but I usually froze at tests. I could know the material forwards, backwards and upside down but put a blank test paper in front of me and I became a hopeless idiot.

kids today r soos tupid lol!

we were smrater back in are day

Look on teh brite side, tho. are stuipd peple will mak grate factery worker wen we need to compeet wit hthe chinees.

I think it all comes back to personal responsibility and that, IMHO, many many people don't want to take responsibility for their own actions or inactions. Blame it on the test, teachers, principal, fellow classmates, text books, school lunch, lack of school lunch, etc., etc., etc., *big sigh* :(

How do you explain the student referenced in the article that was one of the best in their class, with a 3.5 gpa, but still failed the texas state test? Did they just copy and cheat their way through school?

There are some lingering issues with having "high stakes" standardized testing to determine who gets a high school diploma. What about special ed students or students with musical/art/technical talent? How are they represented or tested on the tests?

Because teachers gave "A"s for perfect attendance! Or perhaps for just turning in the homework.

I have a hard time picturing Texas as having a standard test so difficult that what was a 3.5 GPA student when I was in High School could not pass it.

Or maybe people really are just stupid. Perhaps this is the end result of forcing kids to get their HS diplomas instead of just dropping out and getting a job changing oil or emptying trash cans in the park or just plain 'ol making babies? Despite the requirements, you don't actually need a high school diploma to slice up the roast beef in the Wal-Mart deli.

Or maybe people really are just stupid. Perhaps this is the end result of forcing kids to get their HS diplomas instead of just dropping out and getting a job changing oil or emptying trash cans in the park or just plain 'ol making babies? Despite the requirements, you don't actually need a high school diploma to slice up the roast beef in the Wal-Mart deli.
How the hell do you think these idiot parents come to be?

Less baby makin', more readin', 'riting, & 'rithmatickin'!

Why should anybody be allowed to do the graduation walk if they haven't graduated? What a bunch of babies. That sign is classic.

I think a HS Diploma should be MANDATORY for any job more technical than burger flipping or operating a cash register (stuff highschoolers do now for jobs).

We don't need idiots to compete with foreign labor, we need competant people who are able to quickly learn new things.....compete by means of quality, not quantity.

This seems to be part of the recent phenomenon of telling every kid that they are unique and the greatest so as to defend the kid's ego against the cruelties of the world.


This statement can't get any more true. You're not really considered to have achieved anything around here till you at least graduate from a respectable university. EVEN then, it's not that big of an accomplishment. High school was almost nearly a huge waste of time besides the last year.

After hearing some of the stories of med students cheating and not getting expelled (one case the girl was only suspended to come back the next year). These are not the type of people I want to be working as a family doctor let alone as a surgeon. This is at the top univeristy in the country mind you.

How the hell do you think these idiot parents come to be?

Less baby makin', more readin', 'riting, & 'rithmatickin'!
My point was the whole leading a horse to water blah blah blah.

You go anywhere in the world and you'll find morons making babies and doing the absolute minimum it takes to get food in their mouths. That is the norm. That is what human beings do. People aren't getting dumber, we're just elevating our expectations too high. Let them be dumb. Give them their Miller Light and menial jobs. Unless, of course, it's a better idea to hire illegal immigrants to clean the bathrooms in your office building.

(From one of my favorite movies, Unforgiven)
Little Bill: I don't deserve to die like this.
William Munny: Deserves got nothing to do with it. (Blam!)

I think you're spot on with respect to kids today and the idea of entitlement. Kids today have it too easy. Its too easy not to do the work and not have any repercussions. NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND is all wrong, if the kid doesn't know the material then the kid has to repeat the grade. Period. Kids today can't seem to write a good essay. The opportunities for them to learn are there, but (and it is hard to fault the kids in this as I was like this too) lets face it kids want to have fun and with MTV, the OC (yeah I know its off the air), and role models like Paris, Lindsey, et al, its cool to be dumb and a substance abuser. (For crying out loud, Lindsey Lohans' Mercedes cost more than my first house!)

Unfortunately, kids aren't the only problems. Parents seem to be all to willing to let their kids skate and there are no consequences for their actions. Parents don't seem to be involved in the education of their children. While afterschool programs are important, they seem to be more important than Reading, Writing and (A)Rithmatic. Societies norms have shifted from education being important to disposable material things. Newspapers are supposed to be written to the 7th grade level and many kids can't even do that.

A sign of the times? I hope not.

Well, even with grade inflation, high schoolers wanting to get into a good school will have to do very well on the SAT and/or ACT tests.

If you want standardized testing to determine who goes to what college, there you go. They've been around forever and if a student wants to do well they will usually find a way to prepare for it, whether through a course or a test prep book.

So is this conversation about getting into college, or just getting out of high school? Two different beasts.

It isn't pass the test and graduate. The test is EASY. It is a minimum secondary check that you have actually learned something.

I just happen to be right next to a product of the Texas School system. Ok he has been out for a few years, so things may be a bit dated, but here is how it was. The test is given 2 times a year. Starting in hte sophomore year you are encouraged to take the test. In your junior and senior years you are pretty much required to take it if you have not passed it yet.

I guess it is also worth pointing out htat the protest is NOT saying the kids should get a diploma, it is about being able to walk across the stage with their classmates at graduation. Before they actaully get the diploma they need to pass the test. Before deciding where I would stand on this I'd want to find out just how many chances the kids involved had to pass the test. I personally have no problem letting kids who need to fill in a gap or two graduate with their class as far as ceremony goes. It just needs to be kept to where it is limited to kids who you are pretty sure will fill those gaps and actually get the diploma.

I think a HS Diploma should be MANDATORY for any job more technical than burger flipping or operating a cash register (stuff highschoolers do now for jobs).
As far as I know, it more or less is already mandatory. And that's exactly why the diploma is completely pointless. Same thing would happen if a college degree was made mandatory. A dumbass in a cap and gown is still a dumbass.

I guess it is also worth pointing out htat the protest is NOT saying the kids should get a diploma, it is about being able to walk across the stage with their classmates at graduation. Before they actaully get the diploma they need to pass the test. Before deciding where I would stand on this I'd want to find out just how many chances the kids involved had to pass the test. I personally have no problem letting kids who need to fill in a gap or two graduate with their class as far as ceremony goes. It just needs to be kept to where it is limited to kids who you are pretty sure will fill those gaps and actually get the diploma.
This is where the leniency comes into play and we want to make little Taylor and Tyler feel better about themselves BEFORE they actually make the achievement happen.

This devalues the hard work and achievements that the kids who did finish their required credits and testing on time.

We're so stuck on not hurting someone's feelings when they fail. They need to know that if they wanted to be part of some (essentially) meaningless ceremony that they should have thought of that three years earlier and not ****ed around in Mr. Smith's geometry or English class.

As far as I know, it more or less is already mandatory. And that's exactly why the diploma is completely pointless. Same thing would happen if a college degree was made mandatory. A dumbass in a cap and gown is still a dumbass.

if the diploma program isn't washed down, then the dumbasses get the McJerbs, while the rest of the folks who graduated but didn't seek higher education get the next step up.

My issue is with the watering down of diplomas, let the people that don't know jack take a year over a few times.

I am not sure what the tests achieve. At best they are simply an imperfect diagnostic of the failings of the education system. It is unclear to me that they do anything to solve the underlying issues, and I am not sure what those issues are. What happens to the students that fail the test? What kinds of assistance and remediation do they receive? I am not necessarily for just letting them graduate, but without some sort of intervention post failure I am not sure what the point of failing them is. Is it to make a point of talking tough about “standards”? That interests me little. To discuss this solely in terms of some sort of generational deficit brings us dangerously close to “old man complaining about whippersnappers” territory. Blaming kids for slacking off when allowed to is like cursing water for being wet. I would start with looking at the ed schools and teacher compensation. Education classes, unfortunately, have never been held in high esteem at the colleges I have attended. I am not sure that the curriculum and standards we use to recruit and retain teachers are particularly helpful. The professional credentialing for teachers, while well meaning, may provide more of a barrier for qualified folks (temperamentally and technically) than an insurance of quality. The pay does not help much either.

So is this conversation about getting into college, or just getting out of high school? Two different beasts.

Sorry, the biases of my world are at work there. :o But in terms of value, I think the most important thing about a HS diploma is that it IS a prerequisite to get you into a college, and your performance in high school is what dictates the quality of your follow-on education. So while they're two different beasts, they're two very closely related beasts.


This seems to be part of the recent phenomenon of telling every kid that they are unique and the greatest so as to defend the kid's ego against the cruelties of the world.

This is so true. If everybody's special, then nobody is.

if the diploma program isn't washed down, then the dumbasses get the McJerbs, while the rest of the folks who graduated but didn't seek higher education get the next step up.

My issue is with the watering down of diplomas, let the people that don't know jack take a year over a few times.
I think we're going two different directions. You're talking about quality of education (teach 'em little more than how to tie their shoes and to look both ways before crossing the street, then the diploma will be meaningless). I'm talking about quantity of graduates (flood the market with diploma-bearing employees/students and the diploma will be meaningless, regardless of how well educated the kids are). The way I see it, there are more jobs out there that honestly don't require an education than there are jobs out there that required specialized education.

You don't need trig or geography to mow lawns and wash windows so why make them go through it?

This is so true. If everybody's special, then nobody is.
That's exactly what I'm trying to get at in regards to forcing everybody to get a quality education.

A bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. tell me about it. i have a degree from a well-respected university & the only jobs i've been able to find are insurance sales & mortgages. i'm currently working 2 part-time jobs at a restaurant & a bike shop. my brain is worth over $100,000 but i can't get a job making over $10/hr.

tell me about it. i have a degree from a well-respected university & the only jobs i've been able to find are insurance sales & mortgages. i'm currently working 2 part-time jobs at a restaurant & a bike shop. my brain is worth over $100,000 but i can't get a job making over $10/hr.
I feel your pain.

I feel your pain.

I feel it too. :(

I think it all comes back to personal responsibility and that, IMHO, many many people don't want to take responsibility for their own actions or inactions. Blame it on the test, teachers, principal, fellow classmates, text books, school lunch, lack of school lunch, etc., etc., etc., *big sigh* :(

Testify, Bro!

The crop of kids passing through my large urban high school classroom either have bought into the idea that learning is crucial or have the ten steps to the mailbox mentality.

There are more mailbox watchers than those with cans of "want to".

Last year at graduation time the principal all but said "pass 'em" so the grad rate numbers would go up leading to more state dollars blah blah blah. And some mailbox watchers walked after having been taught the test for four years.

It's pretty sad what leaves this school. Many of our graduates that do go on to college report an unpreparedness woefully unforeseen.

It's not ALL the students. There are some great, talented, and capable kids that will go on to succeed in whatever they choose.

The "facts" are the easy part for a teacher; the instilling of a love of learning as a lifelong process is the hard part.

I'm graduating Saturday. I do believe we've hit rock-bottom.

To the OP: Your grammar is not perfect either, just so you know :) . Commas go on the inside of quotation marks. I lerned that in schoul.

I'm graduating Saturday. I do believe we've hit rock-bottom.

To the OP: Your grammar is not perfect either, just so you know :) . Commas go on the inside of quotation marks. I lerned that in schoul.


Duly noted, however, I doubt you'll find anyone on this (or any forum) with perfect grammar :p

If I were in HS now instead of 30 years ago I would have a problem with standardized testing having a lot of weight. I was a 3.5 GPA student but I usually froze at tests. I could know the material forwards, backwards and upside down but put a blank test paper in front of me and I became a hopeless idiot.

I had the same problem. I was never a fan of testing. Essays, projects and other testing methods I would get 100% on almost everytime. Tests, I doubt I ever got higher than a b and likely averaged a c-d on tests. Testing and the way school was (and I assume, is) taught doesn't have any direct application to the real world.

If I ever have kids I would be hard pressed to have many confident words on schooling. I would likely raise a bitter kid who hates school and its methods as much as I did. As a highschool drop out who has done exceedingly well in the real world, I have more confidence in real world lessons than in the schooling itself.

I was always jealous of kids in Japan and Europe who has a more topic focused style of learning. Why the hell did I need French or even gym (even though I was a jock) Forcing anyone to take worthless subjects in order to give me "options" sucks. I knew what I was good at when I was 9 (heck probably earlier). I didn't need to learn worthless crap because some system was designed with flaws.....god I hated school.

I think a HS Diploma should be MANDATORY for any job more technical than burger flipping or operating a cash register (stuff highschoolers do now for jobs).


I would disagree emphatically. That's a very narrow minded view. While I would agree as a "standard", to blindly make that statement leaves a lot of skilled people (myself included) jobless. I am exceptional at what I do and I dropped out of highschool in my last year. I decided early on highschool was useless to me. I left, learned, and went on to get the exact job I knew I would have at the age of 9.

An associates degree is the new GDA.
I'm wondering when they're gonna allow multiple phds... Gotta catch 'em all!


tell me about it. i have a degree from a well-respected university & the only jobs i've been able to find are insurance sales & mortgages. i'm currently working 2 part-time jobs at a restaurant & a bike shop. my brain is worth over $100,000 but i can't get a job making over $10/hr.
Welcome to the wonderful world of our labor glut (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/career/careercoach/archive/061004/the_coming_labor_glut_six_reas_1.htm). You and your brain are worth whatever people will pay for them. In that respect, acquiring skills that insure you don't need to pay others to do work you need done is probably a pragmatic goal.

I've read some cases where parents will sue the school to get a kid's grade raised. Or try to bully the teachers into raising the grade for poor work.

Yeah... not MY little genius! Not MY angel. Must be the school/teacher/principal/other student's fault.
:rolleyes:

I'm not sure if I'll be able to pull it off, but I'm seriously considering home schooling when my daughter gets to that point.

tell me about it. i have a degree from a well-respected university & the only jobs i've been able to find are insurance sales & mortgages. i'm currently working 2 part-time jobs at a restaurant & a bike shop. my brain is worth over $100,000 but i can't get a job making over $10/hr.
One word: Plastics.

Seriously, though. The one word you need to know is this: Networking. Not as in computer networking, but as cultivating relationships to let people know you are interested in getting that high paying job. The more your name is out there, the more you let folks know you are willing to learn, the more opportunity will present itself.

This is coming from a lowly liberal arts major who discovered academia wasn't the answer after a semester of grad school and was always teased that I'd be asking if the customer would like fries with their Whopper. I am nowhere near what anyone would consider a Liberal Arts job, but the skills I learned in History, Spanish, and English classes translate to interacting with customers and colleagues every day.

College isn't just for grades, though. It's about building friendships, partnerships, and trusting bonds that pay off long after someone hands you a sheepskin. Keep in touch with people. Let them know you have a willingness to move/learn/etc. to make a better living. The more you explore and learn, the more things will open up.

Good luck, for sure.

I'm graduating Saturday. I do believe we've hit rock-bottom.

To the OP: Your grammar is not perfect either, just so you know :) . Commas go on the inside of quotation marks. I lerned that in schoul.

Only in the US is that an absolute. Apparently I was taught the British method in school many moons ago because I place mine logically. (http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html, http://www.writersblock.ca/tips/monthtip/tipmay96.htm)

I'm wondering when they're gonna allow multiple phds... Gotta catch 'em all!
One of my colleagues is in the process of earning a double Ph.D. I considered picking up a second one while I'm finishing up the first, but I want to get on with it.

Regarding high schools: I teach college undergrads and have a lot of freshmen in my introductory courses. In each class, there are always a handful of students who are refreshingly intelligent and far ahead of their classmates when it comes to grasping the material in my courses. Sadly, there are a greater number of students in my classes who have no business being there. They have horrible reading comprehension skills (if they bother to do the readings at all), they have no critical thinking skills at all, and their writing fails at a level so far beyond the misuse of our vs. are, their vs. there etc., that it really is difficult if not impossible to understand what they are trying to say. It's not as if my subject is terribly difficult at that level, but it does require critical thinking skills and the ability to read thoroughly and write clearly. Too many of my students possess none of those qualities when they come into my classroom for the first time. Some of them actually develop the skills and thus learn something from the course. The rest fail. On every one of my syllabi, after the course policies, is written in bold and all caps: BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. Amazing how many students think I'm joking around.

A problem pattern I see repeatedly comes from the failing kids who show up at my office hours a week before the final exam to explain to me that they paid for this class, therefore they deserve at least a "B". They do not understand that because they didn't earn a "B", I will not give them one. I do not run my class on the business model. Occasionally, I will receive a follow-up call from Angry Daddy, which is always fun because I have the pleasure of telling him that his child is over age 18 and I cannot discuss the kid's performance with him due to privacy laws. I am then threatened and screamed at and called a variety of names. That's fine. His kid still fails. I would bet that this was a pattern in high school as well. Why bother to do the work and challenge yourself when you can have your parents pull strings to send you on through? Why work for anything at all when you use the business model rationale of "I paid for it, it's mine"?

I'm happy to say that I have a great rate of return students, some of whom did not start out very well. Yes, some people are just stupid. However, I think more are simply lazy and have never had the impetus to use their brains (or even been shown how). They spend their academic lives being spoon-fed information to regurgitate on a standardized test and then when they get to my classroom, they have no idea how to assimilate information from a lecture into relevant thoughts and responses in essay form, or even how to express their own opinions about history. It is unbelievable how many times my lecture is interrupted by students asking, "Is this going to be on the test?" It just boggles my mind. As a result, they either buckle down and let me teach them how to learn and respond like an educated individual, or they fail my class. This is one teacher who refuses to inflate grades or sell a class under the business model. Sadly, some of the worst students I have ever encountered are education majors.

(Sorry for the length, this is a hot button topic for me).