The is really more of a rant than a question, but feel free to share your experiences.

I have been making a real, if gradual effort to use my car less and less over the past couple years. I commute by bike a couple time a week (working on more but a 35 mile round trip every day is too much as of yet). Last November I built up an Xtracycle for obvious (to this crowd, at least) reasons and I love it. Generally, I'm trying not to be preachy but instead to be ever less dependent on the car and maybe to be a good example for others.

Lately I'm finding that some of my good friends just don't get it. They won't accept my explanations of why this is important to me. To them it's not about money, pollution, traffic, or whatever, it's all an excuse to snub them. The little whiny details really don't matter for purposes of this post.

How many of you have gone through similar experiences with friends and family?

How many of you have gone through similar experiences with friends and family?

I never have, but I don't try to explain my lifestyle unless they ask, and seem genuinely interested. It really isn't up to my friends to approve or disapprove of my decisions.

My experience is like Roody's pretty much. Maybe you're more "preachy" than you think or you need new friends anyway?

My experience is like Roody's pretty much. Maybe you're more "preachy" than you think or you need new friends anyway?

As I said, I'm really just ranting more than asking for advice. For the most part I really do keep my philosophies to myself and just do my own thing. I don't push my ideals on others and avoid preaching or arguing even when my opinion is asked for. Who knows, maybe I'm not trying heard enough to explain my motives.

People change and friendships come and go. I have a fair amount of friends and very few have anything negative to say about my bikes or my ideals. Sometimes it's just a bummer when someone you have spent a lot of time with over the years, takes offense when you don't want to do things that revolve around the car.

Alas, the weather is way too nice to sit on the Internet and complain.

Your situation sounds like a normal change as a result of your new life style. I remember I used to get harassed by my friend who would try to pick me up from work all the time. "Dude I don't won't to put my bike in the car, I'm riding home....." anyway, I hear you. Riding has a zen effect on me, so it's easy to laugh off any criticism's and flying projectiles. Enjoy the ride!!!!!

The is really more of a rant than a question, but feel free to share your experiences.

I have been making a real, if gradual effort to use my car less and less over the past couple years. I commute by bike a couple time a week (working on more but a 35 mile round trip every day is too much as of yet). Last November I built up an Xtracycle for obvious (to this crowd, at least) reasons and I love it. Generally, I'm trying not to be preachy but instead to be ever less dependent on the car and maybe to be a good example for others.

Lately I'm finding that some of my good friends just don't get it. They won't accept my explanations of why this is important to me. To them it's not about money, pollution, traffic, or whatever, it's all an excuse to snub them. The little whiny details really don't matter for purposes of this post.

How many of you have gone through similar experiences with friends and family?

I've gone through it with weight loss, but not with being car-lighter yet.

The is really more of a rant than a question, but feel free to share your experiences.

I have been making a real, if gradual effort to use my car less and less over the past couple years. I commute by bike a couple time a week (working on more but a 35 mile round trip every day is too much as of yet). Last November I built up an Xtracycle for obvious (to this crowd, at least) reasons and I love it. Generally, I'm trying not to be preachy but instead to be ever less dependent on the car and maybe to be a good example for others.

Lately I'm finding that some of my good friends just don't get it. They won't accept my explanations of why this is important to me. To them it's not about money, pollution, traffic, or whatever, it's all an excuse to snub them. The little whiny details really don't matter for purposes of this post.

How many of you have gone through similar experiences with friends and family?

I guess I'm lucky. Most of my friends (85%)---and they are of all ages from 25-65---are all car-free. They almost all have regular jobs and possess varying degrees of education. Only one friend lost his license due to DUI. We just know that if you live in downtown Toronto, you don't need a car. It's more of a hassle and unnecessary expense than a convenience or neccesity.

Being car free has made me a number of friends even. Cyclists can talk with one another a whole lot easier than motorists can talk with one another---and when they speak to each other, it's rarely friendly.

Just ensure you're not being too preachy. It's not likely that conversations unfold like, "So, Fred, how are you getting to work these days? Bus, train, bicycle, or car?" in backyard barbecue scenarios.

If they were your friends they would accept you. My friends just think I'm a little kooky. They're right, but they are still my friends.

People change and friendships come and go.

I've noticed that my circle of friends changes whenever there is a lifestyle change: get married, lose your single friends; have kids, there go the DINKs; lose weight, change careers, move, sell your car... Your true friends will stick by you no matter what.

Lately I'm finding that some of my good friends just don't get it. They won't accept my explanations of why this is important to me. To them it's not about money, pollution, traffic, or whatever, it's all an excuse to snub them. The little whiny details really don't matter for purposes of this post.

In some ways the details do matter: exactly what is it about your car-free life that bothers those friends? I can think of at least three possible dynamics that could be at work, and I would handle each one differently.

Case #1: They perceive you as preaching at them, even if you're certain that you're not.

If I get this vibe from someone, I do my best to back off and respect their limits. Even if I never say the word "bike", my friends and family still see me pull up on one every time I arrive somewhere, and I hope they see that I'm a lot happier as I step off my bike than they were as they hunted for a parking space. If they actually ask why I don't own a car, then I can talk their ears off. Depending on their interests, I might give 'em my best tree-hugger spiel, or talk simple financial horse sense, or dispel their mistaken beliefs about slowness and danger, or just tell them how much fun I have...until the first sign that their eyes are glazing over, at which point we talk about something else.


Case #2: They feel like you're never available to do stuff with them. Maybe you actually turn down their invitations because their plans aren't practical without a car...or maybe they just assume that you can't travel more than a few miles, and don't invite you in the first place.

In this case, take the initiative. Find things that you both like to do, at times and places where you'll have no trouble getting there by bike (and they'll have no trouble by car), and invite them. It's kind of fun to watch a friend's brain rearrange itself when you ask them to meet you at a Saturday music fesitival in a town fifty miles away...and, of course, you show up on a bike. It lets them know that you value their company enough to ride a "mind-blowing" distance to hang out with them, and it reminds them to include you in future plans even you'd have to ride a few miles to get there.

And if something important is happening at a time and place that I can't reach without driving...I rent a car and I drive. I figure the extra carbon I burn that day will be cancelled out many times over, if it helps someone else realize that giving up their car is not some momentous, irrevocable step. On that rare occasion when a car would make life better, it's not hard to get hold of one.


Case #3: They think less of you because you make "weird" choices.

My solution to this one is simple: to hell with 'em. If they look down on me for riding a bike, then they probably look down on other "freaks" as well. I don't want bigots as friends.

Like Maddyfish, my friends think I'm sort of eccentric and may even laugh at me at times, especially if it's been raining a lot, but I haven't noticed that anyone's blown me off because of my carlessness. (Usually, it has more to do with my social skills :p ) Some people even claim to admire my decision to go without a car, but no one's followed my example yet. I do go out of my way to not get self-righteous about it, though. Occasionally, I even accept rides from people, which I generally try to avoid, when my cycling to a given location would inconvenience others.

I have no friends since I moved, so I come here and get beat up.
I do wish folks who drive one lousy mile to work would at least look into a bike.
That old one ton GMC ...................................I say too much.

Just ensure you're not being too preachy. It's not likely that conversations unfold like, "So, Fred, how are you getting to work these days? Bus, train, bicycle, or car?" in backyard barbecue scenarios.

Perhaps, but I would imagine a lot of conversations start off with the price of fuel being a hot topic :p .

East Hill

Strange how peoople call you weird for riding your bike. But people who religiously study baseball, NASCAR or whatever are the normal ones.

Sometimes it's just a bummer when someone you have spent a lot of time with over the years, takes offense when you don't want to do things that revolve around the car.

When that’s their form of transportation why would you not expect their life not to revolve around a car? When I went car free at first, I notice a couple less people in my life, other car less people (who wish they had a car) who I picked up and gave rides, maybe help them run a couple of errands. Who kind of disappeared or became unavailable when I was no longer able to give them a free ride, don’t miss those people in my life, and really helped show the dynamic of those friendships. My friends who do have cars and still hang out with do think I am odd about being car-free, but most of them haven’t met anyone who has made that type of transportation change by choice.

My biggest problem with family and even the wife is riding at night. People just don't think it is possible/safe so they tend not to invite you to things because you'd have to ride at night.

Don't have any friends besides work chums but they are work only chums. They still wonder how I can ride my bike at night and not run into a tree. I try to explain to them the same way they drive a car and don't run into a tree but it doesn't seem to get through.:rolleyes:

Most of them also view it as something someone does when they have no other option at all and they don't want to remind you of your misfortune. Heck sometimes I think the reason my in-laws left their car at my house so long wasn't so they'd have it down here when they flew down to visit again. It was so I could drive it if I needed it. They made the offer constantly though I never took them up on it.

I've never had a problem with my friend's and my commuting to work, or daily rides. Then again, we went to the drag strip on Friday night :D

Although, I do have to admit.. the conversation turned at one point to how fast I could do the 1/4 mile on my bike :D

In Southern California, the car reigns supreme and the world revolves around it. Most people here worship the thing (even if they can't afford one at present) and will jump at the chance to have one. I see more bikes being used-by people who can't afford a car mostly. Another thing I noticed here is people use other people like a disposible commondity. That is why the drivers have only one person-themselves-in a huge gas hog SUV or truck. It is the me first ego at the highest level. And our crime rate, plus large fences in the front yard are increasing.

I've never really had that problem, more often, it's that they try to help me too much by offering rides ect. when not needed. I never tell them why it is important to me. I never think to.

Your friends are obivously scared but jealous or they wouldn't find themselves snubbed. But perhaps they take the very reasons that you state as negating what they do. As far as preachy, I never bring up the subject of my bicycling. I answer questions if asked, but to me it's just a non issue.

But I have always been this way, and for many years car free, and sometimes not. I make my strong statements by cycling. I learned in my youth that most people didn't care to follow my path, but that didn't invalidate my taking it.

"Lately I'm finding that some of my good friends just don't get it. They won't accept my explanations of why this is important to me. To them it's not about money, pollution, traffic, or whatever, it's all an excuse to snub them."

If you're snubbing them that one thing. If they are snubbing you then.......

Remember, Your friends know your faults and like you IN SPITE of them.
The people you're friends with now may only be Sunshine Friends not worth
keeping.

If you're being all preachy then.......quit it!!

Strange how peoople call you weird for riding your bike. But people who religiously study baseball, NASCAR or whatever are the normal ones.

Yes, and the people that follow those sports (is NASCAR a sport?) are usually the ones that would be the most unlikely to every play them, but like the armchair generals they usually are they'll heap no end of criticism on those who don't fit their 'world view'.

Love to see a 200lb chair bound cager go up & down the basketball court a few times or survive two laps in a real automobile race...they'd be eaten alive.

All my neighbours think my bike riding is great since I moved about two years ago. My wife doesn't really get it but I think she's really just envious 'cause without a car she's screwed. My friends from my heavy car driving days thought I was 'silly' and I was just going through a phase, one of them went bankrupt a while back and was forced to give up driving for transit, when I suggested he try biking he just shook his head and said he 'couldn't'...never found out why.. Oh well screw 'em..

I've got friends, freedom and way too much stuff to do..

Good question...good thread..

the conversation turned at one point to how fast I could do the 1/4 mile on my bike :D

I've had this question thrown at me, my reply was that I would be faster than any car provided that it was a fair race, i.e. human power only.

My friends have never had a problem with my lifestyle choices, in fact its a great source of amusement as we rib each other mercilessly about anything, but that's just the Aussie sense of humor. If anyone does get all uppity he's usually labelled a '******'(1) and just ignored untill he 'pulls his head in'(2).



(1)****** = someone behaving like an idiot.
(2)To pull your head in = to stop your idiotic behaviour

[edit] Wow, I didn't realise that word was considered offensive!... what bloody ****** decided it was offensive? :D

Well just have car free or car lite friends. :-)
they work just as well as car friends.

You have the wrong friends. Get new friends. Preferably ones that bike a lot and don't drive. :)
Well you can't beat people over the head with it. They either understand it or they don't. I have a friend who likes his jacked f-350, and has straight-piped the exaust, chip, injectors the whole nine yards. He doesn't preach to me and I don't to him. We both think that the other one is full of ****:D
Just practise what you preach.

If your friends have a problem with how you choose to get around, then they are not real friends.

Your problem is you are car light not car free. If you didn't have a car your friends would not be offended that you won't use it to see them.

Good thread, thanks for the feedback everyone.

I try to relinquish my desire for external approval, it frees up a lot of mental "energy". I also dont put too much into explaining why I do what I do, because people generally don't believe words. They will believe your actions... and a bicycle leaning against my cube everyday explains it better than I ever could. If they can't figure that out, then nothing I say will ever change that.

I try not to get preachy or judgemental when I talk about riding my bike. Though really, it's usually other people who bring it up: "So, how do you like this weather? Must be nicer now that it's warm!" or "How's the cycling to work going?" or "Gee, I'm gonna have to switch to a bike soon if these gas prices keep going up!" How can I NOT talk about the benefits and joys of riding a bike? How can I talk about it, without sounding like I'm saddled up on my high horse?

As a result, some of my friends and family think I'm crazy for doing it. Others probably feel as if I'm making them look bad. Then there's the third group: they are in awe that I can do such a thing and praise me for sticking to it. I think I like them the best. ;)

Although, I do have to admit.. the conversation turned at one point to how fast I could do the 1/4 mile on my bike :D

I've had this question thrown at me, my reply was that I would be faster than any car provided that it was a fair race, i.e. human power only.

When I was young, I was able to out do my father's car in the 1/4 mile. I think my time was about 27 seconds. Of course he drove a 1965 VW Van with full Westfalia camper option. :p

Wait until other things start changing then the real fun starts. I have found that one thing really doesn't scare people off so much. Not like I have any friends to speak of anyhow but even chums at work gets scared off when they put all the pieces together.
I fear some people because they'll bring up things to people when they introduce me and instantly I'm a huge nutcase in their eyes.
I live in the land that anything less then 3000 square foot home is a starter home, electric bills run $300+ except for a few months a year and water bills during the summer can be even more on big lots. Oh and most people are driving cars with payments bigger then my mortgage and complain consistently about gas prices. Sure the extra $20-$40 at the pump is your problem.
Me?
-Ride my bike everywhere now. Including my 20+ mile round trip to work.
-Now have a solar hot water heater for all the town to see
http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/4358eeb4z4bef42ad/3710re2/__sr_/b36dre2.jpg?phwEfZGBhIsG.12r
-Used to drive an electric pickup but sold it because it is cheaper to rent the truck at lowes if I really need something and I _HATE_ being in any vehicle.
-Live in a 800 sqaure foot house with a wife and 5 small to mid size dogs.
-Used to commute almost 5 hours a day round trip when I lived in Connecticut and worked in NYC because I rode my bike to the train station, napped on the train and then walked a few blocks to time square everyday. (only adding 30 minutes total compared to driving to the station)
-Use an electric push mower for my 1 acre lawn :eek:

And the list goes on. One thing though people can adjust and make plans. Become the town loon however and well your the town loon :D

When I was young, I was able to out do my father's car in the 1/4 mile. I think my time was about 27 seconds. Of course he drove a 1965 VW Van with full Westfalia camper option. :p

That was some real nice transport in its day, I'll bet your dad is one cool cat.:D

If they were your friends they would accept you. My friends just think I'm a little kooky. They're right, but they are still my friends.
Exactly. What kind of 'friend' would give you flak for your transport choices? Unless of course you make special demands every time you meet with them because of your transport choices, then I could see their point.

That was some real nice transport in its day, I'll bet your dad is one cool cat.:D

Thank you. He is, and a rocket scientest at that. He's the only person of his generation that I ever knew who commuted to work by bicycle. Best of all, he got that from me after seeing me commuting.

i had a medical reason for not being able to drive but i did feel as though my friendships were tested with people. although the people i lost touch with i still consider a friend i noticed that when i was out of site i became out of mind as well. not being around seemed to have a filtering affect of my friendships. only a handfull of people still call me and want to come over to do something. luckily i have a girl whos been through the whole medical ordeal with me stuck with me.

i guess what im saying is, even though you may be noticing people who arent talking to you as much maybe or that dont seem interested, think of this as a filter. the people who truly like you for you are going to be there no matter what happens. unless you touch them in naughty ways they dont like.

My friends have never had a problem with my lifestyle choices, in fact its a great source of amusement as we rib each other mercilessly about anything, but that's just the Aussie sense of humor. If anyone does get all uppity he's usually labelled a '******'(1) and just ignored untill he 'pulls his head in'(2).



(1)****** = someone behaving like an idiot.
(2)To pull your head in = to stop your idiotic behaviour

[edit] Wow, I didn't realise that word was considered offensive!... what bloody ****** decided it was offensive? :D
Now you've got me wondering what the **** is ******?

:roflmao:

Well just have car free or car lite friends. :-)
they work just as well as car friends.
Better if you need to borrow a wrench or an inner tube!

Our friend's boyfriend called me and my girl "clowns" for riding three miles to a restaurant where we all had dinner. Meanwhile he was late finding parking (and of course angry because of it) and has nearly lost his license due to accidents/aggressive driving/DUI, and recently complained that his insurance rate went up drastically (uh no sh** sherlock you've had five accidents including running into a pole in the last two years). We just laughed at him and had a great ride home.

^In a just society:D That person would have been stripped of the their driving privileges.

Our friend's boyfriend called me and my girl "clowns" for riding three miles to a restaurant where we all had dinner. Meanwhile he was late finding parking (and of course angry because of it) and has nearly lost his license due to accidents/aggressive driving/DUI, and recently complained that his insurance rate went up drastically (uh no sh** sherlock you've had five accidents including running into a pole in the last two years). We just laughed at him and had a great ride home.

What a tool!

In a just society That person would have been stripped of the their driving privileges.
Absolutely. He also sounds like the sort of idiot that turns to putty when I catch them at the next light after having harassed me.

I have car less (not by choice) friends. But noone that is carfree or lite. At my job, a coworker that acts like a foreman said he got a call from an applicant and asked him if he had a car and license when I showed up late one day (I didn't bother mentioning that that is illegal). I don't come in late any more.

My friends assume that I always need a ride, and I'll accept one if we're going somewhere in public or if we end up going looking for parties, but after reading this thread I need to stop. Last week I was left out and heard someone arguing about picking me up.

As for preachiness, I've got a degree in alternative fuels and autorepair, so I've been preaching ethanol for the last 5 years. I don't preach riding a bike to much though, quite sure non of my friends will ever ride a bike again.

Never mind the bike, here in Utah I have to explain the Pearl Izumi's.

the funny thing about this dilemma, is that your just better off without those friends. Every person in this world presents themselves a certain way, so that they can attract friends and lovers who they know their lifestyle will attract.

As cyclists we are living how we want the world to be, we are making a difference and speaking with our actions (which is rare today).

I'd rather loose a few mindless friends and feel good about living than cater to their closed minded feelings.

I live in the land that anything less then 3000 square foot home is a starter home, electric bills run $300+ except for a few months a year and water bills during the summer can be even more on big lots. Oh and most people are driving cars with payments bigger then my mortgage and complain consistently about gas prices. Sure the extra $20-$40 at the pump is your problem.
Me?
-Ride my bike everywhere now. Including my 20+ mile round trip to work.
-Now have a solar hot water heater for all the town to see
http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/4358eeb4z4bef42ad/3710re2/__sr_/b36dre2.jpg?phwEfZGBhIsG.12r
-Used to drive an electric pickup but sold it because it is cheaper to rent the truck at lowes if I really need something and I _HATE_ being in any vehicle.
-Live in a 800 sqaure foot house with a wife and 5 small to mid size dogs.
-Used to commute almost 5 hours a day round trip when I lived in Connecticut and worked in NYC because I rode my bike to the train station, napped on the train and then walked a few blocks to time square everyday. (only adding 30 minutes total compared to driving to the station)
-Use an electric push mower for my 1 acre lawn :eek:

hey evblazer, i'm right in your neck of the woods, and hear you 100% on the monster houses, crazy addiction to cars, etc etc.
all my coworkers have 2500+sq ft houses, 2+ cars, plus the harley, boat, jetski... some are paying $100+/mo to store the extra toys. mind-boggling to me.
Could you try reposting your solar hot water set pic? linky no worky:(

Your problem is you are car light not car free. If you didn't have a car your friends would not be offended that you won't use it to see them.
I'll back this. I've never had a car or a driver's licence and no-one has ever questioned my modes of transportation - not trains, not skates and now, not the bike either.

Mind you, everyone thinks I'm mad for never having a driver's licence, but I've never lost a friend over it.

I'll back this. I've never had a car or a driver's licence and no-one has ever questioned my modes of transportation - not trains, not skates and now, not the bike either.

Mind you, everyone thinks I'm mad for never having a driver's licence, but I've never lost a friend over it.

I'm on board with this. I just had an argument last night with my carheavy buddy on the phone. He is always pissed because when I say I'll meet him somewhere within reasonable distance of my house (5-10 miles) he starts complaining about how I need to come out of my "comfort zone". I don't want to be a dick but I feel pretty clear about the fact that any friend that can't meet me inside of this circle isn't likely to be a long term friend and not worth the time anyway! But it isn't about comfort, it is about distance. If I didn't have a car then he'd likely be more understanding.

Live Deliberately. hmmm, I like that.

Live Deliberately. hmmm, I like that.
Henry David Thoreau, Walden.

In my opinion, the greatest of the "carfree" books. Even though it was written 50 years before cars were invented. :)