General Cycling Discussion - How long a wait for service at LBS?

I needed service after bending my rear wheel. The bike was not rideable. Called the LBS but couldn't see me for 4 days. I support my LBS, bought 4 bikes in 2 years, this one in February, and sent in about 5 or 6 friends to buy bikes. I do unerstand that busy is busy, but felt that a diagnosis in order to get parts would have been doable. I guess I'm still a little upset about waiting three hours one Saturday and being sent home afterwards saying he couldn't see me. So, I took the bike elsewhere for service...they saw me right away and ordered the parts I needed.

I like my LBS and I'm not going to challenge them to a lifetime of bitter hatred. But I was wondering if most people use more than one shop? I feel a little guilty, and feel bad about feeling guilty. Aslo is a 4 day or one week wait normal? Preveiously I had to wait over a week for an appointment to have him change my defective seat.

I would expect better service than that.

I don't have a local shop even though I can count about 8 shops off my head that are within an easy drive.

Just like anything else I shop where the service is good, fast and affordable.

I really don't need a shops service as I am my own mechanic.

at this time of the year bike shops can get OVERWELMED with repairs, so be patient. if you have to go somewhere else, don't sweat it.

I was loyal to one shop (from the first week they opened) until they did something like that to me. I needed a brake cable replaced. I stopped by every Saturday for three weeks until I had enough.

Now I use another place. A one man shop with a 4 day turnaround if you're NOT in a hurry. If you can't wait, he always has it done by the following night (or he stays until it's done). He has even talked me out of replacing parts prematurely. Nice.

Some LBSs forget that it's all about repeat business.

There are about 3 local bike shops with good mechanics.. But I go for repairs/maintenance to only 1 shop, my FBS.

In the past, I used to wait for an hour in the shop before I was entertained.. They are so busy, almost everytime I go there..

But since I often go to the shop, almost everyday except sundays, I earned thier respect and friendship not only with the mechanics, but also the owner and his family..

After every ride, I just drop by the shop to say hello.. And even if I just park the bike at the shop, they automatically examine it.. Eventhough the bike is in perfect condition(the mechanic examined it the day before, hehehe:D). And the good thing is, they seem to find something wrong with, a few adjustments here and there. And did I mention this was all for free and they seem not to want to take my money.:thumbup:

About the waiting: I don't wait anymore, sometimes just a few minutes.. They seems to become not too busy when I'm there.:D :beer:

You should know your mechanic(s). At least by first name. And he should think of you as a friend and a fellow cyclist, not a customer.

A 4-day turnaround to get it back to you fixed would be okay, but to take that long just to look at it is way too long. The shop I take my repairs to has a very good reputation in the area (deservedly so) and as a result they're usually at least a little bit backed up but they always take the time to talk to me and check out the bike to see what it might need. In your case it shouldn't have been that hard for someone to look at your tacoed wheel and figure out a rough estimate while you waited.

My shop gives a 48 hour turnaround quote UNLESS we have to order parts. Usually we have them done on the same day they're brought in but we say 48 hrs in case we do get swamped.

If they literally don't have time to look at your bike and evaluate it, they're in over their heads a little. At the same time, be aware that a Saturday is like any other two or three business days squished into one.

The last two shops I worked at, we would certainly evaluate any potential repair, Saturday or not, unless we were literally too outnumbered to get to all the customers. However, we used the very fair "first come, first served" arrangement under normal circumstances.

People who don't think that's fair should try walking into the dentist's office and just ask for an immediate, unscheduled routine cleaning. They'll give you a strained smile and ask if you have an appointm-- oh, you don't? Err, is this an emergen-- oh, it's not? We have an opening two weeks from today at 8:30AM, woul-- oh, you really must have a tooth cleaning RIGHT NOW? (smile gets more strained) I'm sorry but today's timeslots are all taken by people who had the foresight to schedule ahea-- Oh. Very well sir, goodbye. Have a nice day.

Sorry if that sounds rather tart, but time is valuable and usually booked :) Small leaks may sink great ships, as Benjiman Franklin put it. ;)

I suggest everyone learn as much about their own bike as possible. it's really pretty simple once you get your hands into it.

some repairs such as a cable replacement can take less than 15 minutes.

Yea i agree, simple derrialeur adjustments and brake adjustments are easy to learn and will save you money.

There's not one LBS I've ever gone to where I bring my bike in for a problem, and they won't have the time to at least LOOK at my bike to tell me what's wrong. Seriously, if they are that busy, they may not even have time to fix your bike if there's a serious problem.

I'm lucky- the LBS I got to always has time to take a look at my bike right away, and they always fix it the same day. On the other hand, the other LBS I bought my bike from is always way too busy to get a bike fixed same day- for a general tune up, they kept my bike five days! When I broke my rear wheel, they told me it would be several days to get my bike back. So I took my bike to the LBS I currently do business with now, and they had several bikes they were working on, but they squeezed my bike in and got it fixed in a couple of hours. I'm not an impatient person, but if given the choice, I'll go to the LBS that can accomodate me quicker, that's all.


Koffee

My LBS usually gives me a 24 hour turnaround, max. Even when I had my bike stolen they came up with an ideal replacement just 24 hours later. Seems to me if they can't see you for four days, you might think about finding another shop.

AT my shop, we DO stock parts and lots of em so emergency ordering is usually not an issue, on thing any LBS should keep in mind, you can't sell what you don't have. I also have quite a number of loaner wheels so if it's a wheel problem that you have, you can be up and rolling in 10 minutes, the only catch is, if ya wreck the wheel, ya bought it. I feel this is fair enough. If you have your wheel work done with me, the loaners are free while you wait for your wheel.

I got into a crash Saturday about a half mile from my LBS so I went straight there, they looked at the bike right away, even though they were rather busy, the back wheel was bent too bad to ride so one of the mechanics gave me a ride back to my house and then went to work to get it done by the time they closed since they weren't open Sunday, front shifter and both wheels trud in under two hours and they only charged for parts, it pays to befriend the mechanics, I love my LBS and they know I'm loyal event hough I just started biking a month or so but I already bought a road and mountain bike from them and I go riding with my main mechanic once or twice a week.

Good advise pnj, I'll do what I have to do and not worry about it. I believe these are good people at the LBS, but they are "OVERWELMED with repairs." I am amazed at the service some of you get and that you shop owners offer.

I do still feel that my LBS could handle an amergency better and have some appreciation for loyal dedicated customers in a jam. I can't think of a single time when I didn't get what I needed from these guys. I don't mind paying more for everything I buy there because I support local business as much as possible.

I've been considering buy some tools and doing more home repair. I bought Bicycling Magazine repair book, but would have need tools for this job.

Thanks everyone!

Calling by phone to ask about repairs is a big mistake alot of times. When a business is very busy the telephone interrupts someone from doing repairs or sales. The phone can make it impossible to get anything done in any business. Also it's eaiser for the LBS to give you a repair date at their convenience. Best to be there in person so the can see what the problem is and how long it will take. But since they sent you home once after waiting 3 hours, they would no longer be my LBS for repairs anyway:D

We have had problems with local bike shops also.
One bike shop I try to avoid going into as most of the people there ignore you unless you look like a hard-core racer. Sometimes I get a nice salesperson, but not often enough.

The second and third shops are the same owner/name and they are alright in a pinch, but we have had some sloppy work and some problems with wheels built to custom, unless we get the right person to talk to.

The fourth shop (and furthest away, of course) is where I bought my bike last year. These guys are very friendly to everyone, and truly seem to wish to further all bike riding, as opposed to just racing cycles or just bmx, etc. They have always been pleasant, and if they are not busy, will take care of minor repairs when I come in. I went in to them a week ago just this last wednesday and told them I wanted the front and rear wheels trued, the knobbies taken off and replaced by slicks (and appropriate tubes), brakes adjusted. The owner looked at my wheels and said that only the rear looked a tiny bit out, the bike was still ride-able (which is what I thought). He then walked over to about 20 bikes and said that the bad news was that all these bikes were in front of me in the wait for repairs and then suggested that I come back late saturday and drop off my bike and that he would have my bike done by sunday afternoon. I appreciated his honesty, and as I was not desperate for repairs I did as he suggested and he did as he said he would.

I can understand that if you've got a wheel that is unrideable, you are in urgent circumstances, but I personally appreciate a shop's honesty when they give me an accurate time estimation for repairs, long or short. I expect repairs to be longer "in season" at a popular bike shop. I prefer to build relationships with local bike shops/businesses in general.

I think in this case you were alright to go to another shop for the work. Have you talked to the lbs about why they had such a long turn-around, when you are such a regular?

foehn...I sent them an e-mail explaing why I was concerned about their handling of my emergency service needs. These are good people! I felt I needed a second source, and I'm sure the LBS owner will know why I acted that way.

hillyman.. I think your right about not phoning in ahead of time.

I say that people should expect to wait for two or three days anyway?I know I was told years ago that there would be a two day turn around?;)

I agree that four days turnaround in a busy shop might be expected, but just to see you and evaluate your needs is insane. As a repeat customer you have taken your bike in their before and they know you will probably be back, I would think that based on this they could make time for you.

I personally use 2 shops, but they're in different cities and I used whichever is closer to me. One has about a day turnaround time when I am in a hurry, the other knows me and knows I will always be back so they do whatever I need right then and there as I wait and I really appreciate this service therefore I do almost all my business with them even though it costs a little more.

Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er
I agree that four days turnaround in a busy shop might be expected, but just to see you and evaluate your needs is insane. As a repeat customer you have taken your bike in their before and they know you will probably be back, I would think that based on this they could make time for you.


What he said.

I busted a spoke one day when I was out riding which caused a bit of a warp in the wheel but I was still able to ride it. I was passing a bike shop in Los Gatos and went in to see if they would be able to fix it for me. They looked like they were busy but they realized I was out riding on the bike and that it would not take them too long to do it so they fixed it for me right away. I was out of the place in half an hour with my wheel as good as new.

So my advice is, if it is convienient, just go in off the street and you might get lucky and they might do your repair while you wait. However if it is a major service as opposed to a minor that probably won't fly.

Take the bicycle in, tell them you don't mind waiting till they have
a few minutes to estimate it for parts , labour,and time etc.
Then sit on the counter and wait.:)

I went to one bike shop for ages (as a loyal customer does) where most of the people were nice except this one bloke who just had way too much attitude. In the end it got to me and I tried a shop that supposedly only catered for serious roadies - best decision I ever made - I've not had to leave my bike overnight once yet - and as a commuter that type of turnaround is a real blessing.

I know how busy my local guy gets and so at times I'll ask if he can fit my bike in later in the week. He usually tells me he will do it right away or within a couple of hours.

With that kind of attitude I don't mind the very rare times that he asks me to book the bike in the next day.

I think that some shops, of all kinds, get to know their regulars and they start to think that "oh that's Bob, he'll wait while I serve someone else". That's what looses them business. If I go into the LBS and they're busy, I'm the one that tells them to serve someone else and that I'll wait, they never presume that I will just because I'm a regular.

At least I can recall one service delay problem that was exasperating... I arrived in Nice, France and needed my bike ready for a planned tour about Rousillon. BA (airlines) had beat the hell out of my rear dereuilleur) and destroyed some spokes. At city where our tour was to start all local bike shops said too busy have to wait at least 5 days to get at bike. Great..
Just had to call adjacent bike shops in nearby cities until one agreed to look at it. IT was the beginning of summer and the bikes in storage looked pretty full. But still, I had traveled 7,000 miles and waiting to take off with my group. I needed to find a sympathetic bike mechanic.

Originally posted by cyclezealot
At least I can recall one service delay problem that was exasperating... I arrived in Nice, France and needed my bike ready for a planned tour about Rousillon ........

Be honest now. Your post wasn't about a delay in service was it? It was simply a chance to brag about cycling in France wasn't it?:D

Media.. I did not think so, when I thought I was not going to be able to join my group. Sort of tough with about 4 spokes gone and a derailleur not shifting. My group would have left without me.
Really, if you get a good plane fare, well in advance; biking in France is not that expensive; if one thinks spending a lot of money is bragging. . You stay in B and B's, it is far cheaper than a domestic vacation and staying in Motel 6's.

Don't feel bad about goin to more than one shop. If you went to one shop regardless of service/price just to be loyal the shop has no incentive to stay competitive in these areas, and this doesn't just apply to bikes. I used to go to the same aquarium shop until they started being dicks when i asked prices of items that weren't marked. Needless to say I took my business elsewhere and have never looked back. Go to the shop that treats you well NOW, not the shop that treats you well when they know you want a new bike or something.

Originally posted by cyclezealot
Really, if you get a good plane fare, well in advance; biking in France is not that expensive; if one thinks spending a lot of money is bragging. . You stay in B and B's, it is far cheaper than a domestic vacation and staying in Motel 6's.

Unfortunately not for us Aussies.:(

It costs us an arm and a leg just to get there.

Media.. Think you have some pretty nice cycling where you are anyway. Probably Australia has a population that appreciates cycling almost as much as the French. Cycling the Australian coast which I have heard is greatly undeveloped would be pretty exciting.
Our nephew wants to either retire to Perth or somewhere south of Brisbane. After he completes his job in Singapore, Australia is his destination. So sometime after he retires there, hope to do some cycling in your fair land.

Let's hope it's Perth so you can drop in and say hi.:D

I'll show you all the best places to cycle.

Media.. Our nephew also likes good red wines.. Seems he has picked out a couple good reds from West Australia and we drank a couple while visiting him in Singapore last July. Point about vineyards- great cyling terrain..
Look forward to cycling Australia, thanks, hope it happens. . Have to take my own bike, our nephew and his wife only mountain bike. . Since graduating our nephew has been a citizen of the world. Loves California, but says Australia's coasts are like what California's were 25 years ago, only a little warmer.

After e-mailing the bike shop, I got a very nice response from the owner. He was sorry for the way his employee handled the situation and was thankful to hear about it. He said getting back on the road quickly is a key and that no matter how busy he is, to stop by for a diagnosis. Also said ok to leave a voice message for emergency service! Now I feel better knowing that this LBS is in fact the class act I thought it was. I also must claim some of the responsibility myself for not handling the situation differently. You live and you learn. In any case still not a bad idea to have a second source.

Anyone that brings their bike into me ALWAYS gets a diagnosis on the spot. I then provide an estimate and if they give me the green light then I give them a dollar estimate as well as an estimate on the time it will take. Anyone that asks me if they can get it back the same day AUTOMATICALLY gets an extra day tacked on to their wait. I do not care who they are and how much they are going to spend. If you ask for same day service you get to wait longer.

Now if you are nice, cordial, and mind your manners in my house (the shop), and if you've been in before and have always been appreciative of my service and expertise, then there's a 99% chance you will get your bike back the same day.
Of course, if I tell you that the wait will be two days, please do not say that the guys up the street can give it back to me today. Fine, take your bike to them. I know the other bike shop up the street. I pop in every now and then to see what they are up to. I was once there for 15 minutes and in that time the idiots in the back blew out four tubes and scared the crap out of everyone in the store. So if you want to entrust your bike to somebody else, that's fine. I'll charge you double of the original cost when you tell me "the other guys worked on it but it's still not working right."

People who know bring their bikes to me. If you are impatient and want faster service then roll the dice and take your chances.

If you can't wait and tell me that you want the parts because you THINK you can do the job, that's fine. I'll sell you the parts. I KNOW I can do the job. That's what you are paying for: the job done right, the first time.
When you bring it back because you couldn't figure it out, you'll have to wait a week and pay three times as much. I've had five people tell me they could do it themselves; after all they pump their own gas so what's so hard about working on a bike? Well, all five brought their bikes back to have me work on them. One guy screwed his bike up beyond repair that he had to buy a new one from me.

If you want to act pompous and tell me you can fix it yourself, fine. Make sure you are able to complete the repair. I never tell anyone "I told you so." It's all a part of the learing process. If it takes you 15 minutes for a simple cable replacement, keep in mind it'll only take me two.

So- if the cycling and wine are both very good in France and Australia, does that mean there is a correlation between wine consumption and good cycling-a) the cyclists are drunk and don't notice the cars; b) the drivers are drunk and don't drive, therefore not bothering cyclists; or c) if you have enough time to drink wine, you have enough time to cycle, and enough time not to hurry when you drive, because you have no job waiting at the other end of the journey anyway.

I had a hopefully one time experience yesterday we were working on two bikes when this 12 year old came in with a brake problem. His front brake was no problem. His rear brake was real messed up. Cheap Target BMX bike with crappy brakes and blown up springs in the brake. Well after ten min. he starts with the "how much longer" act. I told him the problem and he says "I will just bring it back another day I have to go." So he leaves with no rear brake!

Lonestar,

I guess thats one difference between your shop and the
one I frequent. If I say I want to work on it, the shop is
supportive and the wrenches will give me advice on what
to do (or not to do). If I screw it up and I bring it back
they will usually try to teach me what I did wrong in hopes
that I avoid it next time. No doubt they'll charge me
(and not 3x the original cost) but all in all they are really supportive.
then again, they do know that I'll be back buying
components/clothes and all the accessories that are the
stores bread an butter. When it comes time for me to
purchase a new bike you better believe that this is where
I'll plunk down my hard earned dollars.

Marty

Originally posted by lonestarcyclist

after all they pump their own gas so what's so hard about working on a bike?

If it takes you 15 minutes for a simple cable replacement, keep in mind it'll only take me two.


for the 15 minutes on changeing a cable, I mentioned that time to encourage the begginers to work on their own bike.

15 or even 25 minutes changeing their own cable is much faster then leaving the bike at the shop for a day. and the more you do it the faster you get.

I think most people that have worked on their bikes just a few times can change a cable in under 5 minutes.....

working on bikes really isn't that hard. some things may get tricky if you don't have the experience but how do you mess up the bike so bad that it has to be replaced? strip the B.B. out or something? Can you elabourate?(sp?)

What about those that drive to the big city and expect there bicycles to be repaired same day they come in?I can understand them getting first attention has they cannot wait.:rolleyes:

Lonestar, in reading your post it sounds to me as if you look for opportunities to punish your customers by deliberately making them wait longer and/or pay more if you feel they're not giving you the respect you think you deserve. I think I'll just continue to avoid Cycle Spectrum, thanks...

Originally posted by Grendel
Lonestar, in reading your post it sounds to me as if you look for opportunities to punish your customers by deliberately making them wait longer and/or pay more if you feel they're not giving you the respect you think you deserve. I think I'll just continue to avoid Cycle Spectrum, thanks...

After reading that post I'm very glad I didn't buy that Fuji Tahoe from Cycle spectrum, and I to will CONTINUE to avoid them. I don't know where Spring, Texas is but if you live in the Dallas area I would suggest Richardson Bikemart.

Originally posted by cyclezealot
Loves California, but says Australia's coasts are like what California's were 25 years ago, only a little warmer.

It depends which part of Australia's coasts you were thinking of visiting.

Chris. Think our nephew's point, he finds somewhere in Australia, the coast still undeveloped? To find that in California, you have to go way north of Los Angeles. To the central coast area.

Yes, there are some places where the coast is still undeveloped, but not all of the coast is undeveloped. That was my point also.

Yes, there are some places where the coast is still undeveloped, but not all of the coast is undeveloped. That was my point also.

Very true. I thought most Australians lived along the coast, as opposed to inland?


Koffee

Originally posted by lonestarcyclist
Anyone that asks me if they can get it back the same day AUTOMATICALLY gets an extra day tacked on to their wait. I do not care who they are and how much they are going to spend. If you ask for same day service you get to wait longer.

I'll charge you double of the original cost when you tell me "the other guys worked on it but it's still not working right."

When you bring it back because you couldn't figure it out, you'll have to wait a week and pay three times as much.

If you want to act pompous and tell me you can fix it yourself, fine. If it takes you 15 minutes for a simple cable replacement, keep in mind it'll only take me two.

Man, what arrogance! If you cheated me like that by charging be 3 times the cost just because I tried to work on my own bike or had it worked on somewhere else I'd report you to the B.B.B. I would avoid a shop like that at all costs!

I'd like to add in response to chip's mention of out-of-towners, you should call about ten days ahead and say "I'm from out of town and I need a tune-up turned around same-day. I'll be in town on _________ and I have a such-and-such bike with one broken spoke, worn-out brake pads..." and supply as much info as you can.

The LBS will probably offer to hold a time slot for you since you're from out of town. They can't fabricate time out of nowhere if you just walk in (see my dentist analogy above), but if you call ahead, reserve a slot, and show up on time or preferably ahead of time, you should be sitting pretty. :)

I hate to put anyone down, but lonestarcyclist, I hope you're just using hyperbole when you talk about tripling labor charges, etc.

You know what, I love you guys. I really do. I tune your bikes and you get to ride them. That's what I do. Lucky for y'all it's the one thing that I am best at. I do nothing better than the work I do on bikes.

I understand that you have money, you need service, and you want it now. You have to understand that I take in an average of 38 repairs a week during the course of the five days that I am in the shop. Sometimes less, sometimes more. I am able to get most of them back out the door in one day. One or two take a couple of days to get to simply because they are bigger projects and I save them for the slow days in the shop so I can dedicate more time to them.

I am a nice guy; really I am. I love it when people bring me their bikes to work on. When customers wheel (or carry) their bikes through the front door of my shop I smile and ask them what's is going on with their bikes. I adjust my attitude based on the customer's attitude. If you are nice and tell me that you leave the bike to my expertise then I will tune it as if it's my bike. If you treat me like I am on the low end of the totem pole then I will charge you the max for anything I do to your bike. Repeat customers get a discount on their service because they know that I will take care of their bike and get them back out on the road or trail with no worries.

I love you guys because once I fix your bike I send you back out there with it and you ride. I watch you test ride it in the parking lot and smile ear-to-ear when you let out a "wahoo" because your bike is perfectly tuned. I watch you place your bike in your car with such loving care that it makes me think that you place your child in the vehicle with as much delicacy.

I am pompous, arrogant, and very full of myself. Why? Because I illicit the above mentioned responses from y'all that are derived from simply riding your bike. Sure you can take your bike anywhere, but you bring it to me. For that I am grateful. And I can remain in business.

But because I depend on my loyal customers to keep my job, it doesn't mean that you can demand service based on YOUR timetable. I place your bike in line behind the others I have taken in and I get to them in turn. I tell everyone when they drop off their bikes a day and time when their bike will be ready. The bikes are usually ready before the time promised and they are definitely ready for you when you come back to pick up your trusty steed.

If you tell me that you need your bike by a certain day/time then I will try to accomodate you as much as I can.

If you are out riding and then you stop by for a flat fix, I will do it on the spot IF I CAN. You might wait a few minutes but I am always happy to help you if you are out cycling and swing by for a quick repair to finish your ride.

If you come in and see me reading a book, picking my nose, or asleep on the floor you can be assured that I have nothing to do and I will most likely be able to complete a repair on the spot. Since this rarely occurs, please be patient when I tell you that your wait might be a day or two.

You guys are the ones that I take care of to the best of my abilities. You ride great bikes and you ride them well. You are the ones I brag about to my friends and loved ones.

I said what I said because I need to know what I can and cannot do to my customers. If I piss you off with something, then I know it's the wrong approach. Then again I may think that I could be on to something.

Relax folks. I only triple charged somebody once. And he deserved it. Trust me.

If it makes you feel better, on my commute to the shop today I had a flat and busted a spoke. I waited until all other repairs were completed before I even touched my own bike. I care about your bikes that much.

Keep the faith, always ride whenever possible, and please please please store your bike indoors.

Today, I started with eight hours of repair on the board(nine hour day). During the day I also got a guy wanting a sixty day(Free tune up on new bikes)(He needed it right now because he is moving TOMORROW, a master of advance planning he is) DONE, five flat tires DONE, set up an order and install for a guy wanting new cranks but not sure what he wanted, had to discuss pro/con for twenty minutes DONE, spent an hour(between, two visits and a phone call) with one customer who MIGHT get about a hundred dollars worth of work done to two bikes, maybe, talked to crazy customer who, once again, is cancelling her reserved repair, had parts come in for a repair and added it to the repairs for the day DONE, removed training wheels from bike, had a guy drop in who needed races swapped on a fork and steerer cut and star nut installed DONE, called in the days warranty(36" inch Coker uni with crooked fork), sold twelve hundred dollars worth of stuff(no bikes) and took in all the new repairs, ate two slices of cold pizza. I did not get to a wheel build so I stayed late and got it ready(spokes sorted, hub cleaned/polished) and will come in early to finish it.
If I say I can not do something for a few days I am not just putting you off, I have a bunch on my plate allready. If I worked half this hard in any other field, I would make twice as much. I also put up with my coworkers son bouncing a basket ball for SIX hours, yes SIX. Ask him to stop and he would quit for a couple of minutes and then start again. The highlight of the day was when he took it outside and it was run over by a car, destroying it.
Yes PNJ, inexperienced people do very expensive things to thier own bikes. Offhand, BB installed backwards(one time), crooked (many times), hundreds of stripped screws, spline BB installed splines out of line, or without the screw washer, wheels with half the spokes stripped, shims in the wrong place, brake pads rubbing the tires. This does not include the many, many mistakes that are not expensive, like cables routed to the wrong side of the binder nut.