Living Car Free - Police Chase

A couple of days ago, in our fine city, a 15 year old boy, stole a car, was chased by police, crashed into a taxi cab, killing the two 16 year old female passengers and himself. It's a sad event, and my condolences to the families.

The news media is making noise about banning police chases (again), it's the dangerous police chase that caused the crash, touts the media. Actually, if the kid hadn't of stolen the car, then the police would have had no reason to chase him, and there would have been no crash. So how do we keep people from stealing cars, simple, make them unavailable, so to prevent deaths from police chases, ban cars:D

Comments, anyone?

At least ban privately owned cars. I think there should still be buses and such. And SUV's are right out! They don't even have purpose in going off road because there are only roads.

Raise them with morals, values, and ethics?

Raise them with morals, values, and ethics?

That would seem to make sense, wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

Ok. Did the kid's rob a bank? Did they kill anyone? Nope sounds like the cops did that when they chased a couple of immature kids. I certainly don't think the kids weren't guilty of a major crime and when caught they should go to kail just like an adult but w/o the chase chances are everyone would be ok. The cars would be ok and the cops would still have caught the kids. Give the cops a bike to patrol on and maybe they would have noticed what the kids were doing before things got out of hand.

Raise them with morals, values, and ethics?

+1000

Raise them with morals, values, and ethics?
That makes too much sense. Lets take away their freedoms, and form a totalitarian society instead.

Ok. Did the kid's rob a bank? Did they kill anyone? Nope sounds like the cops did that when they chased a couple of immature kids. I certainly don't think the kids weren't guilty of a major crime and when caught they should go to kail just like an adult but w/o the chase chances are everyone would be ok. The cars would be ok and the cops would still have caught the kids. Give the cops a bike to patrol on and maybe they would have noticed what the kids were doing before things got out of hand.
You don't think someone stealing a 20-40K dollar piece of property that the owner is on the hook at 2-5 hundred a month payment is a major crime?

Please tell me how the money in the bank is different than money in the asset (car)? If the car was paid off and the owner only had liability then they just stole 20-40K from some innocent victim. Whether it came from using a ransom note or a carjack at gunpoint or a hotwired car it's all the same.

Ok. Did the kid's rob a bank? Did they kill anyone? Nope sounds like the cops did that when they chased a couple of immature kids. I certainly don't think the kids weren't guilty of a major crime...

Huh? Thats ridiculous? Not a major crime? Last time I checked, stealing a car is a felony. Oh yeah...this is the car-free forum...so you may not actually own a car. Maybe it would have been a major crime if they broke into YOUR house and and stole $5,000-$10,000 worth of stuff from YOU. Perhaps then it would be suitable for the police to (gasp!) chase the burgulars and apprehend them. <rolls eyes>


and when caught they should go to jail just like an adult but w/o the chase chances are everyone would be ok. The cars would be ok and the cops would still have caught the kids. Give the cops a bike to patrol on and maybe they would have noticed what the kids were doing before things got out of hand.

Yes, the police catch criminals and puts them into jail. Sometimes a chase is necessary because (drumroll) the criminal does not WANT to get caught by police. (gasp) :eek: I mean if all those criminals would just turn themselves in then everything would be hunky-dory. Oh well...

Raise them with morals, values, and ethics?

Oh no, we can't do that. Everything is relative. What's good for you doesn't necessarily mean its good for me. Respecting everyones diversity is priority #1. There are no wrong answers!

</sarcasm>

we don't know the whole story here. how were the cops to know that it was a 15 year old kid in the car? for all they knew, it could have been someone with an extensive police record, weapons, drugs, dead body in the truck, etc.

I think cars are GREAT!

.... for removing poor genetic material from the pool.

Unfortunatly occasionally they remove others with themselves.

Not to mention that the police didn't know the kid's age before the chase... might've not even known it was a stolen car.

When a car evades them, they chase... usually if a car is evading, it's cause there is a reason to be chased. ;)

Raise them with morals, values, and ethics?

That would work, but how do you instill morals, values and ethics into kids, unless you have a way to hold parents to the same standard. If "dad" only comes around once in a while, drunk or stoned, looking for a place to crash for a few days, because he just got out of jail again, and his latest girlfriend doesn't want him around anymore...... Kids learn that this is acceptable behaviour.

On the other hand, if both parents are around, hard working, and have good morals, values and ethics, then kids learn that this is acceptable behaviour.

Apparently though, this story like many others, has more info come out as time goes on.

A lawyer for the two police officers involved, stated that, while the 15 year old suspect hit speeds of 150km/h (93MPH), the officers never exceeded 100km/h (62MPH), and were actual quite far behind the suspect when he rear-ended a taxi cab containing the other two victims (one 16 and one 17 year old girl). If memory serves, police cars in this city contain black boxes and cameras, so the investigation continues.

So how do we keep people from stealing cars? Comments, anyone?

Give all children extensive training in buddhist meditation so that they realize that impulsive actions like that are an effect of the lack of discernment, discipline and detachment and symptomatic of excessive living with a "me" orientation.

Give all children extensive training in buddhist meditation...

And if that doesn't work try BOOTist remediation.

When I was a kid they called this crime "joyriding." I don't think the cops chased them. Of course crime rates were much higher then, so the cops had bigger fish to fry.

Why would they have to start a chase to catch these kids? There must be other ways....

So how do we keep people from stealing cars

Giant car u-lock
Take your tires and driver's seat off every time you park
Ask if you can park in the store
:D

Don't ban cars, just stop cleaning up after them. No more road repairs, no more freeways, no more subsidies, no more nothin'

So how do we keep people from stealing cars



Giant car u-lock
Take your tires and driver's seat off every time you park
Ask if you can park in the store
:D

No No No. You drive a beater, or better yet buy a nice Mazeratti and fuglify it with matte black paint and fake rust on the shiny parts.

Giant car u-lock
Take your tires and driver's seat off every time you park
Ask if you can park in the store
:D
:roflmao:

Don't ban cars, just stop cleaning up after them. No more road repairs, no more freeways, no more subsidies, no more nothin'

Naw, we just fix up the 1½m closest to the curb, gotta have somewhere for the bicycles to go:D

It's interesting, one street near here, is under construction, it's normal 4 lanes is now 2 lanes, hasn't made much difference to traffic, except the buses block things up (one every 4-5 minutes), so IF we replaced the centre two lanes with a dedicated streetcar ROW, so that we could eliminate the buses, the street would flow just as nicely as with 4 lanes, give up the strip of dead grass between road and sidewalk, and we could add a 1½m bike lane to each side, better traffic flow, a nice, fast route to bike across the top of the city, and much healthier for the environment, by eliminating the stink of the diesel buses.

Giant car u-lock
Take your tires and driver's seat off every time you park
Ask if you can park in the store
:D

lol
cops have discretion whether or not to give chase, unfortunately cars are often used as weapons by criminals. i think, outside of a perfect world, there is no right solution to this problem. you let them get away, they run over people with the car. you chase them, they still run over people with their car but the cops eventually catch them. set up a road block? i dunno.

If cars were incapable of speeding there would be no more car chases, no illegal road-racing and the inevitable deaths that result from their high-speed crashes. Sure, drivers are expected to be rational, responsible, ethical and moral in the operation of their vehicle, but experience has taught us that they are not. Since cars were first put on the road, they have been used recklessly, dangerously and foolishly and thousands of people die needlessly every year as a result. The experiment with personal responsibility should be ended now and all cars (except for emergency vehicles) should be speed-controlled. I don't like government involvement in our daily lives any more than anyone else, but speed kills and speed kills thousands upon thousands every year. I'd rather my freedom to speed be removed than have a cop knock on my door and tell me my son was killed by some moron speeding in a stolen car.

but there are different speed limits for different roads. if a car is calibrated, for example, not to exceed 75mph (as the interstate speed limit is set at), then what's to stop someone from going 75 mph on a 45mph road?

Seriously, speed limits of 45 mph on freeways and 20 mph in the city.

And gadgets on cars that won't allow them to go any faster. The reduction in carbon and cyclist deaths would be enormous.

but there are different speed limits for different roads. if a car is calibrated, for example, not to exceed 75mph (as the interstate speed limit is set at), then what's to stop someone from going 75 mph on a 45mph road?

Actually that's easy:

The governor contains a radio receiver, speed limit signs have a small transmitter on them (solar powered of course), as you pass the speed limit sign, the governor picks up the signal from the post, that gives it the new speed limit. Your governor then either reduces the cars speed to the new limit, or allows you to accelerate to the new limit. Unfortunately, people would probably destroy them in low limit areas, and steal them in high limit areas.

Alternate option, the governor contains a GPS chip along with the radio, a regional radio facility broadcasts a table with the location of every speed limit change, and it's GPS coordinates, the governor then looks for matches between it's location and the table. You could also add a speed limit field to the GPS signal, so that wherever you are, your GPS governor would know the speed limit.

Option three, this is the cheapest but would really make a lot of drivers mad, set the national speed limit to 25MPH and governors are set to the same. The problem is existing vehicles, they do not have governors, so you would need to install the governor in such a way that it would not actually be activated until 10 years from now, install them in all new cars, and wait for the existing fleet to be decommissioned, then on the activation date, all governors are activated, at the same time. Otherwise people will just keep patching up old non-governed cars so they can keep speeding. Of course if the majority of the fleet are governed, then the few non-governed cars will be stuck at governed speeds most of the time.

Option four, forget the governors, install a cat-o-nine-tails in each police vehicle, drivers who are caught speeding are immediately given 1 lash for every 5MPH over the speed limit they are travelling, if they cause an accident, causing bodily injury or death of someone else they are immediately shot. This would not work in a civilized country, but would probably work in the US, which is becoming less civilized by the day:rolleyes: .

In cities around my area if a crotchrocket runs from the police they let it go and mail them a ticket, not to save other peoples lives but to save the drivers. Joy riding is a misdemeanor, car has to have the keys in it (officially I believe it is called using without permission or something) and is a no jail time crime in most areas. The overzealous police killed the 3 people, because if they weren't chasing the fifteen year old wouldn't have been running. Why were they chasing, because the fifteen year old was running? cost to benefit. cost=3 peoples lives benefit=possibility of catching someone for fleeing and eluding.

I think cars are GREAT!

.... for removing poor genetic material from the pool.

Unfortunatly occasionally they remove others with themselves.

Yup, the driver got the Darwin Award. The passengers get Honorable Mention for hanging out with him.

Why not fit the police helicopters with .50cal machine guns and turn them into gunships? maybe some military technology (think gun slaved to FLIR) the technology allows for pinpoint accuracy. Pass a national law that a runner will be considered armed with a deadly weapon (the stolen vehichle) and everyone in the immediate vicinity is considered to be in grave and imminent danger, that would allow the gunship to shoot to kill.

Runners will know that when that helicopter appears in front of them two things are a certainty 1)He has no chance of outrunning it, and 2)If he doesn't stop immediately he is dead where he sits. If the runner persists under those conditions then society is better off without him.

That would work, but how do you instill morals, values and ethics into kids, unless you have a way to hold parents to the same standard. If "dad" only comes around once in a while, drunk or stoned, looking for a place to crash for a few days, because he just got out of jail again, and his latest girlfriend doesn't want him around anymore...... Kids learn that this is acceptable behaviour.

On the other hand, if both parents are around, hard working, and have good morals, values and ethics, then kids learn that this is acceptable behaviour. .

It isn't all that simple. I've known simply wonderful kids who came from cr@ppy homelives. I know other kids who came from loving, stable homes with parents who did everything they could to bring the kid up right and the kids turned out rotten.

All relatively modern cars run with internal computer assistance. I don't know how to do it, not my field, but it seems to me that the computers can be built to emit an individual identification signal. Mr. Policeman can identify offender by his cars signal and return a signal to the computer to shut down the car. Criminals no longer driving, police chase now on foot !!!!!!!!

+1000

yes however parents are not the only group of influence. Peers etc. tend to quite often dissolve even the best of raising. Its actually quite an unfair statement as it implies the parents messed up... which might be but we really cannot say. Everyone makes mistakes- this happend to be a very costly one.

All relatively modern cars run with internal computer assistance. I don't know how to do it, not my field, but it seems to me that the computers can be built to emit an individual identification signal. Mr. Policeman can identify offender by his cars signal and return a signal to the computer to shut down the car. Criminals no longer driving, police chase now on foot !!!!!!!! I am sure the ACLU and others would have much to say about this plan. I also think that a type of electronic gun/disruption device could also be employed that would shut a car down if deployed at close range. I do know that a very strong magnetic field can and will wreak havoc with some vehicles electronics.

Aaron:)

If cars were incapable of speeding there would be no more car chases, no illegal road-racing and the inevitable deaths that result from their high-speed crashes. Sure, drivers are expected to be rational, responsible, ethical and moral in the operation of their vehicle, but experience has taught us that they are not. Since cars were first put on the road, they have been used recklessly, dangerously and foolishly and thousands of people die needlessly every year as a result. The experiment with personal responsibility should be ended now and all cars (except for emergency vehicles) should be speed-controlled. I don't like government involvement in our daily lives any more than anyone else, but speed kills and speed kills thousands upon thousands every year. I'd rather my freedom to speed be removed than have a cop knock on my door and tell me my son was killed by some moron speeding in a stolen car.
Agreed. But it's not going to happen anytime soon i'm afraid.

"You aren't going to get very far in bicycle advocacy [when your] real objective is to restrict auto use. You will have most of the traveling public against you."
--John Finley Scott 1934-2006

"You aren't going to get very far in bicycle advocacy [when your] real objective is to restrict auto use. You will have most of the traveling public against you."
--John Finley Scott 1934-2006
I think we're kinda used to that!

Also, this is definitely NOT the Advocacy forum. :)

Ok. Did the kid's rob a bank? Did they kill anyone? Nope sounds like the cops did that when they chased a couple of immature kids. I certainly don't think the kids weren't guilty of a major crime and when caught they should go to kail just like an adult but w/o the chase chances are everyone would be ok. The cars would be ok and the cops would still have caught the kids. Give the cops a bike to patrol on and maybe they would have noticed what the kids were doing before things got out of hand.

You gotta be kidding. If that was your car and you see the police not making an effort to get it back then what would you say. Police are paid to, yes, protect life but also to try and prevent crimes and catch criminals. Car thiefs ARE CRIMINALS! The lives lost is the result of the thief trying to get away. They are responsible for their own actions. Yes in some situations chases should be called off (like through school zones in the middle of a school day) but to ban police from trying to catch a criminal is wrong. People have to start taking responsibility for their own actions.

You gotta be kidding. If that was your car and you see the police not making an effort to get it back then what would you say. Police are paid to, yes, protect life but also to try and prevent crimes and catch criminals. Car thiefs ARE CRIMINALS! The lives lost is the result of the thief trying to get away. They are responsible for their own actions. Yes in some situations chases should be called off (like through school zones in the middle of a school day) but to ban police from trying to catch a criminal is wrong. People have to start taking responsibility for their own actions.
Relax. Nobody is saying that police should be banned from chasing criminals. Nobody who knows what they're talking about, anyway.

But people taking "responsibility for their own actions" would include the police taking responsibility for theirs. That means that police departments ought to have responsible policies for determining when a chase should occur and how it should be conducted. The police are also responsible for ensuring that training, oversight, equipment and accountability are adequate.

I don't know for sure, but I think most departments do have such policies. I believe that car chases are routinely investigated, much as police shootings are.