This seems crazy to me, and I can't believe it's not being debated here. I'm poaching info from Stacy's thread in the Northeast forum (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=304291).
CBS News had some cell phone video and NY 1 is running a story on their website
From http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index...id=1&aid=70390
Local Bicyclists Want Charges Dropped From Alleged Sweep Last Week
June 04, 2007
A city environmental group and local bicyclists are calling on the NYPD to stop harassing people riding bicycles after they say police went on a raid last week.
The non-profit organization Time's Up says officers were videotaped Thursday night sawing off bike locks and arresting bystanders on East 6th Street between First and Second Avenues.
Witnesses say without warning, officers cut the locks off about 50 bikes and then let people walk off with them without showing proof of ownership. They say police also took away some of the bikes in an unmarked van.
One witness, who was videotaping the scene, was arrested after he asked one of the officers for his name and badge number. Another woman was also arrested after questioning the officers.
"I guess I started asking too many questions and I got placed under arrest for disorderly conduct and spent 20 hours down in central booking,” said arrested bicycle owner Robert Carnivale.
“What happened that night is simply unacceptable and unlawful behavior by the New York City police department. It demonstrates, unfortunately, a continued, ongoing pattern of hostility and harassment of New York City cyclists,” said civil rights attorney Norman Siegel.
Time's Up and the cyclists are now requesting a meeting with the commanding officer of the Ninth Precinct. They also want to know how the NYPD plans to return the bikes, and is demanding charges be dropped against those arrested.
The NYPD says some bikes were returned to their owners at the scene, while others were returned at the precinct if the rider could prove that they were the owner.
They also say there were two arrests; one for disorderly conduct, the other for a misdemeanor drug charge.
The pertinent video clip:
http://blip.tv/file/252942/
Didn't see the video. Might I ask what the stated reason was for cutting the locks?
timmhaan
06-05-07, 12:30 PM
urg! how the heck are most of us going to prove we own the bikes? i don't think i'd be able to find a record of the seriel numbers or even a reciept for my bikes. maybe i should keep better records for when the police saw off the locks and take my bike. unreal. by the way, i think this was happening last year or two as well. seems like they go ape crap every so often.
flipped4bikes
06-05-07, 12:41 PM
Fascists...
Stacy
06-05-07, 12:48 PM
Actualy the orginal thread was started by superslomo.
Oddly enough, my bike is registered in the 20th Precinct. Not beause I live in the 20th Precinct, on the Upper West Side, but becuase they were doing bike registrations at the Family Bike Festival in Riverside park. As far as I know neither my local precinct, or the 9th precinct would have access to that data. If cyclists are going to have to prove ownership on the spot maybe that should be a city-wide database? Or maybe NYPD should try using a little common sense and follow their own guidelines?
Nickds7
06-05-07, 12:58 PM
hmm interesting.. I am sure there is a reason behind this that isn't being completely reported... these stories seem to be pretty one sided and not giving the full story of the city... either way still pretty harsh.
maddyfish
06-05-07, 01:02 PM
Why were the cops taking the bikes?
timmhaan
06-05-07, 01:05 PM
Why were the cops taking the bikes?
apparently if you ask, you get arrested.
maddyfish
06-05-07, 01:06 PM
Well I watched the vid, and I'd say you should have called the cops, because you're bikes wehere being stolen, but in this case, I guess you're out of luck.
maddyfish
06-05-07, 01:10 PM
I guess when I come to N.Y. I won't bring my ID, I'd just run away from that fat cop and the little woman.
CB HI
06-05-07, 02:43 PM
Sounds like more of the NYC Critical Mass pissing contest.
Interesting that the article leaves out that little bit of context.
Blue Order
06-05-07, 02:51 PM
Why were the cops taking the bikes?Locked to public property (the subway entrance) apparently. These sweeps happen periodically.
What's disturbing is (1) cutting locks when the cyclist is volunteering to unlock the bike, (2) allowing people to walk off with a bike without proof of ownership, and (3) arresting witnesses for having the impertinence to ask questions.
Blue Order
06-05-07, 02:55 PM
One more thing-- if New York spent as much effort installing secure bike racks as they do cutting bikes off of subway entrances, would they still need to conduct bike sweeps? Doubtful....
Bklyn
06-05-07, 02:55 PM
I was just waiting for the anti-CM axe-grinders to arrive. That it took a dozen posts for the first one is kind of surprising.
Look. The issue here is that parked bikes had their locks clipped and were hauled away without warning. Is the bad blood between CM and the NYPD a contributing factor? No doubt. But you should realize that your bike could have been on that street.
Blue Order
06-05-07, 03:05 PM
How many auto sweeps did NYPD conduct that night? I think the answer to that question says it all about the City's attitude towards cyclists.
Laika
06-05-07, 03:08 PM
Sounds like more of the NYC Critical Mass pissing contest.
Interesting that the article leaves out that little bit of context.
That might be a good point if there'd been, you know, people riding the bikes in question.
CM is a couple hundred people once a month these days. Cycling in NYC is tens of thousands of people on two wheels every day
Blue Order
06-05-07, 03:09 PM
I was just waiting for the anti-CM axe-grinders to arrive. That it took a dozen posts for the first one is kind of surprising.
Look. The issue here is that parked bikes had their locks clipped and were hauled away without warning. Is the bad blood between CM and the NYPD a contributing factor? No doubt. But you should realize that your bike could have been on that street.CM should be irrelevant. There's no way NYPD could know whether these bikes belong to CMers, or just somebody who had their bike locked up on the street. If it is related to CM, it's chickensh!t for the NYPD to confiscate bikes that have nothing to do with CM.
bhtooefr
06-05-07, 03:11 PM
(3) arresting witnesses for having the pertinence to ask questions.
I could see some nasty lawsuits here...
Laika
06-05-07, 03:19 PM
I think both sides are wrong on this, CM and the police.
One of the current tactics for NYC CM is, when they see the cops coming, arresting or whatever; is to jump off their bikes, locked them up (even if the large number of bikes block the sidewalk) and walk away.
In response the police cut the locks and either remove the bikes or give them back to the CM rider who has been standing there watching the cops cut his lock.
Again to the OP, why was it not mentioned that this occurred during CM. Are you trying to hide something or just flame against the cops when you are both wrong.
From the OP:
"The non-profit organization Time's Up says officers were videotaped Thursday night sawing off bike locks and arresting bystanders on East 6th Street between First and Second Avenues."
CB HI
06-05-07, 03:19 PM
And yes, I would be very upset if my bike got impounded while running errands because of the childish behaivor of both the CM'ers and the police.
Laika
06-05-07, 03:23 PM
Now if I read my calendar right, the last friday of the month of May was the 25th. The bike seizure was almost a full week later, on 31 May (or 30 May, depending on the source) neither of which was a Friday, let alone the last Friday of the month.
If you got an axe to grind at least try to get it right, man.
Laika
06-05-07, 03:23 PM
And yes, I would be very upset if my bike got impounded while running errands because of the childish behaivor of both the CM'ers and the police.
I'll be expecting you to correct yourself now. TIA!!! TIA!!!
That's the link to time's up's calendar, on which you can see the CM for may is clearly not the same day as the seizures, if the reports from multiple media sources are to be believed.
You were saying??
Bklyn
06-05-07, 03:27 PM
Again to the OP, why was it not mentioned that this occurred during CM. Are you trying to hide something or just flame against the cops when you are both wrong.
What are you talking about?
Laika
06-05-07, 03:27 PM
Time's Up plays a big part in NYC CM, so I do not trust what they say, but if the cops did do this the night before a CM ride, then sue them big time because they went way overboard.
As the I posted to above calendar says, it happened nearly a full week AFTER the CM ride for may, and nearly a month BEFORE the next CM ride (that's on the calendar too.) You were saying?
Laika
06-05-07, 03:29 PM
What are you talking about?
He's confused in his mind. He hears bees, I think.
CB HI
06-05-07, 03:30 PM
As I said, by doing it outside the CM ride is going way overbourd, so sue them.
But be honest, all this nastiness began with CM.
Laika
06-05-07, 03:34 PM
As I said, by doing it outside the CM ride is going way overbourd, so sue them.
But be honest, all this nastiness began with CM.
Stop. Just stop. You're wrong. Man up and say so, and then go forth and grind your axe where appropriate.
Bklyn
06-05-07, 03:34 PM
all this nastiness began with CM.
Just to let the inanity hang in the air.
Blue Order
06-05-07, 03:35 PM
You've got a virulently anti-cycling city administration in NYC, from the Mayor and City Council on down. As I understand it, there was never any conflict between the city and CM until the Republican convention. Before the convention, no conflict, after the convention, conflict. That kind of conflict destroys any possibility for cyclists to create better cycling conditions in the City-- for example, getting the City to install ample and secure bike racks throughout the City, a solution that would obviate the need for "bike sweeps." The only solution I can see is to conduct your own sweeps-- sweep these anti-cyclist politicians out of office, and help elect some pro-cyclist politicians.
Bklyn
06-05-07, 03:38 PM
As I understand it, there was never any conflict between the city and CM until the Republican convention. Before the convention, no conflict, after the convention, conflict.
Succinctly put and accurate, I'd say.
cooker
06-05-07, 03:46 PM
I don't see why this has anything to do with critical mass. Probably less than 1% of New York's cyclists participate in cm, so if observers, or the police for that matter, think seizing (presumably) illegally parked bikes will affect critical mass, they're not looking at the big picture.
Laika
06-05-07, 03:54 PM
I don't see why this has anything to do with critical mass.
there's only one person in this thread who thinks it does.
Bklyn
06-05-07, 04:50 PM
Gah. What a stupid distraction. What were we talking about?
cooker
06-05-07, 05:00 PM
there's only one person in this thread who thinks it does.gotcha.
maddyfish
06-05-07, 08:30 PM
So the cops were stealing the bikes because they were locked to street signs and lamp posts and stuff. And that is illegal in N.Y.?
Blue Order
06-05-07, 08:37 PM
So the cops were stealing the bikes because they were locked to street signs and lamp posts and stuff. And that is illegal in N.Y.?Apparently.
And apparently double parking, parking in front of fire hydrants, and parking in red zones is not illegal, because I haven't heard of a single NYPD car sweep... :rolleyes:
Laika
06-05-07, 09:26 PM
Apparently.
And apparently double parking, parking in front of fire hydrants, and parking in red zones is not illegal, because I haven't heard of a single NYPD car sweep... :rolleyes:
Well there are car sweeps, but they tend to be done by cycle activists pissed off that cops are parking any which way they want to.
randya
06-05-07, 10:06 PM
are you required to register your bike in NYC? If so, is this a manhattan, an NYC or a state thing?
randya
06-05-07, 10:07 PM
Stop. Just stop. You're wrong. Man up and say so, and then go forth and grind your axe where appropriate.
he wants to grind, that's for sure...
ChipSeal
06-05-07, 11:20 PM
Property rights? What property rights?:eek:
You can put a business card or paper with your name and address on it inside your handlebars for positive ID if your bike is recovered after being stolen, or after parking it in NYC.
Tailwinds, BIZ
Stacy
06-05-07, 11:33 PM
are you required to register your bike in NYC? If so, is this a manhattan, an NYC or a state thing?
I think a new bill passed that requires businesses to register bikes used for commercial purposes and provide safety equipment for their staff -- but the bike sweep had nothing to do with that. The CIty does have voluntary bike registration where local precincts engrave a registration number next to the serial number. The owner is given a certificate and, supposedly, the number is kept on file in case the bike is stolen and later recovered.
I read somewhere that NYPD claimed they received several complaints that abandoned bikes were cluttering up the streets. There's supposed to be a policy in place where cops tag bikes they believe might be abandoned and give cyclists an opportunity to remove them. I guess policy went out the window this time around. Whenever the weather begins to turn warm and certain precincts have to interact with cyclists, they behave like a bunch of vengeful bullies.
old and new
06-05-07, 11:47 PM
GOOD ONE STACY, it says it all. Does anybody believe that NYC Police or any official agency CARES about "your" bike ?? They don't feel any emotion or sense of fairness,why should they ? Police there don't care if there own bikes get stolen, plenty more where that came from, would be the phrase that best applies.Cops get anything/everything they want "on the arm",it's a NYC tradition. Down south fire-works are legal,in NY where I'm originally from, on 4th of July, a cops party has the best fire-works display or for example,when myself and friends would have a bash on the 4th, we made sure that cops attended.
Nickds7
06-06-07, 12:35 AM
I guess when I come to N.Y. I won't bring my ID, I'd just run away from that fat cop and the little woman.
Haha a little out of topic and not supporting the police on this one but.. It would be funny to see you get slammed to the ground by the female cop as you try to run :rolleyes:
I didn't really know a whole lot about the reasons behind it until reading the recent posts.. I can see the cops side on this but what they chose to do in response was out of line..
JeffB502
06-06-07, 05:21 AM
When I was in college the university police would "boot" illegally parked bikes using a 2nd lock to secure the bike to whatever it was illegally locked to in the first place. In order to have the lock removed you would have to call the police department. They would send an officer out at their convenience to unlock the bike, and I believe there was a small fine involved as well. Seems like this may have been a better method of punishing the cyclists for their illegal parking.
However, if there were so many illegally parked bicycles they were blocking access to a public area, it would be reasonable to remove them as that is a significant safety hazard (especially blocking a subway exit...I'm thinking emergency evacuation efficiency). If a car was parked blocking a subway entrance I'd expect it to be towed away too.
maddyfish
06-06-07, 06:30 AM
Haha a little out of topic and not supporting the police on this one but.. It would be funny to see you get slammed to the ground by the female cop as you try to run :rolleyes:
I didn't really know a whole lot about the reasons behind it until reading the recent posts.. I can see the cops side on this but what they chose to do in response was out of line..
I run the 400m in 52 seconds, the mile in 4:50 seconds, not world class for sure, but a whole lot faster than that short woman.
Blue Order
06-06-07, 12:12 PM
When I was in college the university police would "boot" illegally parked bikes using a 2nd lock to secure the bike to whatever it was illegally locked to in the first place. In order to have the lock removed you would have to call the police department. They would send an officer out at their convenience to unlock the bike, and I believe there was a small fine involved as well. Seems like this may have been a better method of punishing the cyclists for their illegal parking.
However, if there were so many illegally parked bicycles they were blocking access to a public area, it would be reasonable to remove them as that is a significant safety hazard (especially blocking a subway exit...I'm thinking emergency evacuation efficiency). If a car was parked blocking a subway entrance I'd expect it to be towed away too.If that's the situation-- and it may well be the situation-- one solution is to come out and cut the locks and haul the bikes away.
Another solution is to install ample, secure bike parking facilities (racks.).
One solution solves the problem temporarily, one solution solves the problem permanently.
Any guess as to which is the more expensive solution? Any guess as to which solution a bike-friendly city would pursue?
bhtooefr
06-06-07, 05:38 PM
First solution has more cost long term, both in direct cost (sending cops out for raids) and indirect cost (causing cyclists to leave the city,) but also has high INCOME, due to either tickets or reselling the bikes.
Second has more cost short term, but much, MUCH lower cost long term. Zero income, though.
john bono
06-06-07, 08:29 PM
I don't think this has anything to do with CM(and I am emphatically NOT a fan of CM) This is about a police agency that is too lazy to deal with abandoned bikes the way they do with cars. When a car is abandoned on the road around here, they tag it with this big ugly sticker that pretty much can't be removed. The next time a cop comes by and sees car with the sticker, they tow the car. I think the NYPD was in the wrong here. Yet another example of the Bloomberg nanny state.