Some guy on the sidewalk in front of a bar yelling "get in the bike lane!" to us, which was funny because there is no bike lane there.
And you shot back, "Hey driver, get off the sidewalk!" right?

I have be told to get in the bike lane when the bike lane was basically a gutter full of glass and debris and periodically disapeared with no warning.

no, you haven't skewed it at all. this HeadPoll was in response to a comment I made in another thread that responded to head asserting riders hear 'get in the bike lane' when there aren't any bike lanes.

you prove MY assertion, that riders DON'T hear 'get in the bike lane' when there aren't any bike lanes, they most commonly hear "GET OUT OF THE ROAD"

you prove my point, and disprove heads, maddyfish.
No, maddy's experience supports my contention.

She lives in an area where there are no bike lanes, so she never hears "get in the bike lane".

But in areas where there are bike lanes, the term "bike lane" takes on the meaning of "that out-of-the-way space where cyclists belong". About 30% of the 47 respondents so far have had "get in the bike lane!" yelled at them on roads without bike lanes.

Have you ever heard a driver yell "Get in the bike lane!" ?
If so, was it on a road with a bike lane?
Tell us about the time(s) a driver has yelled at you to get in the bike lane, HH.
Large group of cyclists on Hwy 101 southbound in Solana Beach. Some guy on the sidewalk in front of a bar yelling "get in the bike lane!" to us, which was funny because there is no bike lane there
There you have it, folks... Helmet Head has answered his own self-described HeadPoll incorrectly.

I got it while riding through a local park, which happened to be Bike Route D10 here in Denver. All I could do was say, "Why don't YOU get off the bike path!"

There you have it, folks... Helmet Head has answered his own self-described HeadPoll incorrectly.

I totally forgot it was a guy on the sidewalk, rather than someone in a car, until I started answering your question.

Anyway, I have no reason to believe the guy on the sidewalk did not drive.

head, you are confused.

I mentioned in another thread, "no, when there's no bike lane, people don't get yelled at to get in the bike lane, they get "GET OUT OF THE ROAD" and maddyfish agrees with my statement.

head, you had to start a poll to find out that no, most riders don't hear 'get in the bike lane" when there's no bike lane.

idiotic sophist.

I mentioned in another thread, "no, when there's no bike lane, people don't get yelled at to get in the bike lane, they get "GET OUT OF THE ROAD" and maddyfish agrees with my statement.

head, you had to start a poll to find out that no, most riders don't hear 'get in the bike lane" when there's no bike lane.

Bek - do you believe it is possible that I get yelled at to get in the bike lane when riding on those two roads I provided images of above?

Al

when i'm in these bike lanes, i've NEVER got yelled at to get in the bike lane.

on the other hand, some drivers are asshats regardless of road striping.


I'm betting its MOST COMMON bike/car friction occurs when there is no place safe for a rider to ride side biased, and the drivers are irritated at slight or perceived, not actual, delays caused by the slower bicyclist.

I've certainly gotten more "get out of the road" than anything else.

drivers in rural areas sans bike lanes are highly unlikely to yell 'get in the bike lane'

what a pile.

drivers in rural areas sans bike lanes are highly unlikely to yell 'get in the bike lane'

One very obvious reason is that drivers in rural areas are likely to be traveling at 65mph when passing cyclists and most often can do so using adjacent/opposing lane with little difficulty.
Al

This one looks scary http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=46798&d=1181314026
So cars merge through the bike lane to turn right?

Never heard it once in 5 years of commuting, but bike lanes are so uncommon around here that I'm only on a road that has one maybe once a week for 10 minutes or so. My daily route has none.

This one looks scary http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=46798&d=1181314026
So cars merge through the bike lane to turn right?
If you want to have both a bike lane and a right-turn lane, cars would have to merge through the bike lane at some point, if you don't want them turning right across the bike lane at the intersection, which I certainly don't. (At least not without a separate light cycle for bikes.) Given a solid bike lane at this intersection (which I'll accept for the sake of this point), I would desire that it be dashed at some point prior to what is shown, with signage about right-turners yielding to bikes, indicating the preferred merging area prior to the intersection. See for example pg. 29 of the AASHTO Bike Facilities Guidelines (http://www.communitymobility.org/pdf/aashto.pdf) (physical page 38 in the PDF).

I looked at the diagrams, looks dangerous to me, under any of the diagrams.

Looks like to me, well before the right turn lane, the cyclist should be in the right lane with the cars, so that cars turning right aren't cutting across the bike.

Yell all they want, all I require of them is not to clip me when they pass. By the way, I run my garbagetruck in the bike lanes just to throw some of the debris out for my ride home.

Looks like to me, well before the right turn lane, the cyclist should be in the right lane with the cars, so that cars turning right aren't cutting across the bike.
Are you saying a cyclist continuing straight should do so from the center, or perhaps the left side, of the right-turn only lane?

Never heard it once in 5 years of commuting, but bike lanes are so uncommon around here that I'm only on a road that has one maybe once a week for 10 minutes or so. My daily route has none.
This supports my hypothesis that use of "bike lane" to mean "that space where cyclists belong out of MY way" (regardless of whether there is a bike lane or not) tends to be adopted into the jargon in areas where bike lanes are relatively common.

I tend to agree with you, HH, but that doesn't mean that without bike lanes, some motorists STILL wouldn't find other ways to justify the belief that we don't belong on the road. I've never been yelled at to get on the sidewalk either (that I remember, although I'm less certain of this), but I have been generally yelled at and honked at in traffic, albeit not that often. Just a few days ago, I was merging to the left to follow a fork in the road and the driver of the car I merged in front of (after negotiating, successfully I thought) gave me the finger as she passed. It wasn't a close call or anything, she just seemed annoyed by my presence. I think what happened was that she did slow down to let me in, but she wasn't happy about it. I think we'll always have people like this. :(

I never got this type of yelling or the driver tesifying in court until after bikelanes were invented. Before bikelanes, drivers just seemed to accept me using the same road they were on.

when i'm in these bike lanes, i've NEVER got yelled at to get in the bike lane...
GEE Bek, you mean motorist do not yell at you to ride in the bikelane when you are riding in the bikelane.
Do you even read the nonsense you write?

I tend to agree with you, HH, but that doesn't mean that without bike lanes, some motorists STILL wouldn't find other ways to justify the belief that we don't belong on the road. I've never been yelled at to get on the sidewalk either (that I remember, although I'm less certain of this), but I have been generally yelled at and honked at in traffic, albeit not that often. Just a few days ago, I was merging to the left to follow a fork in the road and the driver of the car I merged in front of (after negotiating, successfully I thought) gave me the finger as she passed. It wasn't a close call or anything, she just seemed annoyed by my presence. I think what happened was that she did slow down to let me in, but she wasn't happy about it. I think we'll always have people like this. :( And I tend to agree with you, John. But my points are this:

As your example illustrates, the real problem is the cultural expectation that cyclists should not be in the way of motor traffic, and
whether that sentiment is expressed as "get on the sidewalk", "get off the road" or "get in the bike lane", is mostly beside the point.
the cultural expectation could be better. The number of people (motorists and cyclists) who think this way could be reduced to be more akin to that of other countries, like the U.K.
You see, once you recognize that it's all the same problem, you can see that it's a mistake to see bike lanes as a solution to the so-called "get on the sidewalk/get off the road" problem. At best, it just expands the space of where the yahoos tolerate our presence to include the unused margin of the road as well as the sidewalk, and becomes the "get on the sidewalk/get off the road/get in the bike lane" problem. Is the bike lane applying a Band-aid to the problem, or a contaminated piece of duct tape?

The truth is, if the outside lane is wide enough for a bike lane, then even without the stripe if you're riding in that space then you're out of the way and the "get on the sidewalk/get off the road" problem is not any more likely to manifest itself. So adding a stripe there really doesn't change anything with respect to this problem: the bike lane is not a solution at all.

Actually, if you need to move further left for some reason, the "get on the sidewalk/get off the road/get in the bike lane" problem is probably MORE likely to manifest itself if there is a bike lane. In this sense the bike lane is not even a Band-aid, but a a contaminated piece of duct tape that exacerbates rather than heals.

Worse, the bike lane serves as an official sanction of the very problem itself: the cultural expectation that cyclists should be out of the way of motor traffic. After all, there it is, with stripes, signs and symbols, the clearly demarcated ghetto space where cyclists are supposed to be in order for us to get and stay out of the way of motor traffic. Supporting such an anti-cyclist facility is most certainly not cycling advocacy.

Actually, if you need to move further left for some reason, the "get on the sidewalk/get off the road/get in the bike lane" problem is probably MORE likely to manifest itself if there is a bike lane.
Do you have any non-anectdotal evidence for this guess?

Do you have any non-anectdotal evidence for this guess?
No, I don't know of any studies that have looked into this.

But I will note that over 25% of the respondents of this poll report having "get in the bike lane" yelled at them on roads with bike lanes. Presumably most of those occured when the cylist was outside of the bike lane.

There are also about 30% that report having it yelled at them on roads without bike lanes, but we don't know how many of those are in wide lanes versus narrow lanes.

The question is, of those in the 25% group who were outside of the bike lane when it got yelled at them, how many would not be yelled at if the bike lane was not there?

And of those in the 30% group who were in lanes wide enough to have bike lanes, if the bike lane stripe was not there would they not be yelled at?

Your guess is probably as good as mine, but, overall, I sense less agitation about riding "further left" on roads without bike lanes than roads with bike lanes. Of course, that's totally anecdotal.

I've heard "get in the bike lane" twice, both on the same day on the same road, which had no bike lane at all. Actually, they were "Get that bahk in tha bahk lane", and "You idjit, there's a bahk lane right there!". And there wasn't. That is some stupid $hit. :rolleyes:

I've heard "Get on the sidewalk!"

To which you should respond "the side what?"

In today's Portland Maine Sunday paper, there was a letter complaining about a local rural shoulderless road where

as many as 50 or more [cyclists] completely fill the driving lane out to and over the yellow line at times.

They also make no effort to spread out in columns of two or three so motorists can pass safely.

On roads such as this, I believe cyclists should not be allowed if there is no bicycle lane for them to use and stay in.
No bicycle lane, but that doesn't prevent the motorist from believing that there should be one for cyclists to "use and stay in", or else not use the road at all.

I've heard it all.

"You're not a car."

"Get on the sidewalk."

"Get on the path."

There is no prerequisite for ignorance, except maybe possession of a driver's licence.

I've heard it all.

"You're not a car."

"Get on the sidewalk."

"Get on the path."

There is no prerequisite for ignorance, except maybe possession of a driver's licence.
You never heard street corner loungers yelling "Gimme dat bike, man"?

I have never heard anybody yell at me to get in the bike lane on roads with or without bike lanes.

I have had a pedestrian yell at me for about 2 minutes straight as I waited for a light that I should get on the sidewalk or else I would be killed.

I've had drivers lay on the horn at me and aim their cars head on at me on purpose on roads with no bike lane.

The president of the company my boyfriend works for had the audacity to blame a bicyclist she was passing on a road with blind turns and no bike lane for causing her to veer into oncoming traffic and then hitting her car with his handlebars as she passed him. Then she took a walk on the bike path and got angry there were too many bicycles there. This being the same exact bike path that now will remove all those pesky cyclists who might hit her car again.

Go ahead and blame the bike lanes all you want HH. The problem is people are idiots.

You never heard street corner loungers yelling "Gimme dat bike, man"?I've never heard of street corner loungers.

I have had a dude in a pickup truck nearly rear end me when I stopped at a stop sign. I went straight, he turned right, and once he was several hundred feet away, he shouted something unpleasant sounding but unintelligible.

You never heard street corner loungers yelling "Gimme dat bike, man"?

I've heard "Gim........" and always wandered what the rest was, but it just faded away behind me. Now I know what it was. :)

In today's Portland Maine Sunday paper, there was a letter complaining about a local rural shoulderless road where


as many as 50 or more [cyclists] completely fill the driving lane out to and over the yellow line at times.

They also make no effort to spread out in columns of two or three so motorists can pass safely.

On roads such as this, I believe cyclists should not be allowed if there is no bicycle lane for them to use and stay in.


No bicycle lane, but that doesn't prevent the motorist from believing that there should be one for cyclists to "use and stay in", or else not use the road at all.
With more and more bike lanes, you can expect more and more people to believe cyclists should not be allowed if there is no bicycle lane for them to use and stay in..

And yet 50% of the people here have never heard anybody tell them to get in the bike lane.

I think that driver who thinks there should be no bikes unless there's a bike lane is hoping that will simply prevent the riders from riding 15 abreast. If they wouldn't do that, she would have no reason to want a bike lane.

Even better: A hit&run driver (under oath) and his lawyer both claimed that a collision with me was my fault, because I was not riding in the "bike lane". The right side of the picture shows the so called "bike lane".

http://img487.imageshack.us/my.php?image=exhibit20hitptbb4.jpg

they may try that but I can't see how that would hold up because, I don't see any markings that designate it a "bike lane". Its just a shoulder... add in the fact that he left the scene of an accident. Im sure they would try to pin that on you if they could... thats why everyone hates lawyers. They don't give a rats ass as to whats right... they are chameleons and they will try every trick in the book to get their client off if they can.

I would definitely bring this picture, and maybe you should revisit the area and take some measurements of this "bike lane".

also how were you hit? from behind? did you merge into the lane before being hit? or did you have command of the lane?

was there a police report? and what did it say? maybe there are some witnesses?

don't get too outraged that they are trying to pin it on you... just keep a level head.

Your advice is good and I have already done all of that. The hit & run occurred in Feb 2006. I did not post about it because my inner voice told me that this think was going to get messy. Now that it is very likely everything is finished with the hit & run driver; when I get some extra time, I will put together the full story and post it in the commuter forum.

There were actually two cases. Hit&Runs criminal case for fleeing the scene and a civil case Hit&Runs lawyer filed to try and get money out of me and intimidate me from being a witness against Hit&Run. Hit&Run pleaded “no contest” in the criminal case, was granted a deferred sentence with 6 month probation and a $305 fine. The civil case was an attempt by Hit&Run to obtain a restraining order on me, alleging my taking a photo of the marks on the hit & run car was harassment and me calling to ask for his insurance information or for payment of damages was extortion. This civil case got thrown out, primarily for 3 reasons:
1. I proved that Hit&Run committed perjury in his criminal case.
2. Hit&Run and his lawyers repeated position that the collision was my fault for not being in the “bike lane”.
3. There was no harassment or extortion.



To your other questions, I was riding in the center of the lane at 25 mph (holding speed down due to a wet road, although the center of the road was partly dry due to the heat from motorist engines). Hit&Run’s right side mirror hit my left wrist and handle bar from behind as he tried to pass me at the blue sign in the photo. The shoulder in many areas of this road is only 1 foot wide and the travel lane is 10 feet.

:rolleyes: Oh yes,

In Oxford, UK there are a couple of places where bike paths separate from the roadway. In these places, on several occasions I've been honked or remonstrated at by drivers. The segregated bike path/lane is only provided on part of that route. I used to ride the whole length of the road, about 3 miles total.

The funny part is that not one motorist ever protested in the sections where there was no separate bike lane.... Please explain this to me ;)

Ed

Your advice is good and I have already done all of that. The hit & run occurred in Feb 2006. I did not post about it because my inner voice told me that this think was going to get messy. Now that it is very likely everything is finished with the hit & run driver; when I get some extra time, I will put together the full story and post it in the commuter forum.

There were actually two cases. Hit&Runs criminal case for fleeing the scene and a civil case Hit&Runs lawyer filed to try and get money out of me and intimidate me from being a witness against Hit&Run. Hit&Run pleaded “no contest” in the criminal case, was granted a deferred sentence with 6 month probation and a $305 fine. The civil case was an attempt by Hit&Run to obtain a restraining order on me, alleging my taking a photo of the marks on the hit & run car was harassment and me calling to ask for his insurance information or for payment of damages was extortion. This civil case got thrown out, primarily for 3 reasons:
1. I proved that Hit&Run committed perjury in his criminal case.
2. Hit&Run and his lawyers repeated position that the collision was my fault for not being in the “bike lane”.
3. There was no harassment or extortion.



To your other questions, I was riding in the center of the lane at 25 mph (holding speed down due to a wet road, although the center of the road was partly dry due to the heat from motorist engines). Hit&Run’s right side mirror hit my left wrist and handle bar from behind as he tried to pass me at the blue sign in the photo. The shoulder in many areas of this road is only 1 foot wide and the travel lane is 10 feet.
I suspect that Hit&Run and his lawyer really truly believe that you were wrong to be outside of that "bike lane".

You never heard street corner loungers yelling "Gimme dat bike, man"?
:roflmao:

H-yes, and, "Ahmo knock you right off dat bahk!" (She said as she staggered down the sidewalk)

:D

And I've heard the cheeleaders, too, shouting all kinds of encouragement. "GO!" "Yah!" "C'mon!" etc.

I'm a natural superhero, I guess. ;)

I suspect that Hit&Run and his lawyer really truly believe that you were wrong to be outside of that "bike lane".
Any lawyer worth his salt would have read the law and therefor known that he was right in being out of the "bike lane". But knowing that would not stop them from doing what they were getting paid for, to defend their client, not the law.

This supports my hypothesis that use of "bike lane" to mean "that space where cyclists belong out of MY way" (regardless of whether there is a bike lane or not) tends to be adopted into the jargon in areas where bike lanes are relatively common.

HH I don't think your hypothesis holds water at all. I also think you're misinterpreting the data based on your biased belief. Your attempt to villify bike lanes like this are about as meaningfull as villifying the sidewalk based on motorists yelling at cyclists to "get on the sidewalk". You could also villify various sexual acts, some of which are anatomically impossible based on what I've had yelled at me.

The poll results at this time indicate that the majority (61%) of respondents voted Nope, the second biggest respondent group (21%) indicated Yes, on roads with and without bike lanes so if anything it tells you that there is little or no correlation between the bike lane and the yelling.

What your poll does not indicate is what percentage of cyclists yelled at were told to get in the bike lane, versus having something else yelled at them. It could very well be that even if 100% of respondents had "get in the bike lane" yelled at they may still represent a miniscule percentage of all cyclists that were yelled at. Your poll fails to address that, but I think that's because you deliberately designed the poll to support your preconceived notion rather than to gather meaningfull data.

If you're genuinely interested in getting to the root cause of conflict between cyclists and motorists I would suggest you look at studies conducted into overcrowding and its effects. There is a very predictable pattern of behaviour in humans when they are put into a situation of overcrowding such as in traffic. I'm sure we've all seen the irrational behaviour shown by some motorists towards everyone else not just cyclists. I'll let you read the research if you're interested, there's mountains of it (hint=Google). The bottom line is that I'm not at all surprised by the hostility shown by motorists towards cyclists, especially in moderate or heavy traffic. It has more to do with cyclists being perceived as weaker/more vulnerable/less empowered and nothing to do with a white stripe painted on the road. My own experience on the road (6,000 - 10,000 miles per year, 15+ years) confirms this, to me at least

Wow CB HI, When I told the CHP that I was in the bike lane , he said "That's not a bike lane!", and snickered. It was about a 6' shoulder that ran for about a 1/8 th of a mile. That was a shoulder on that road, in any state.

Any lawyer worth his salt would have read the law and therefor known that he was right in being out of the "bike lane". But knowing that would not stop them from doing what they were getting paid for, to defend their client, not the law.

pj7, The right side is the so called "bike lane". All 1 foot of it.

When the judge saw this photo (that the lawyer had a copy of before court) his stupid lawyering caused his client more trouble than help!

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/4881/exhibit20hitptbb4.jpg

why are you misleadingly referring to that as a bike lane? you know, the law knows, the judge knows its not a bike lane. are you trying to perpetuate the belief that it IS a bike lane, CBHI?

now this, THIS is a bike friendly shoulder, and THAT'S a bike lane.

The one time I've heard it the clown wanted me to get off the road entirely and use the Class one bike lane paralleling the road. I've had the reverse happen. A Denver cop-ette stopped the entire DBTC group I was with and ordered me to get off of the Cherry Creek bike path and onto the road. Well I was riding a 39 inch wide faired recumbent trike. My pals tried to argue with her and I could see her getting tense so I told them stop and I moved. Soon as she was gone back on the path.

HH I don't think your hypothesis holds water at all. I also think you're misinterpreting the data based on your biased belief. Your attempt to villify bike lanes like this are about as meaningfull as villifying the sidewalk based on motorists yelling at cyclists to "get on the sidewalk". You could also villify various sexual acts, some of which are anatomically impossible based on what I've had yelled at me.

The poll results at this time indicate that the majority (61%) of respondents voted Nope, the second biggest respondent group (21%) indicated Yes, on roads with and without bike lanes so if anything it tells you that there is little or no correlation between the bike lane and the yelling.

What your poll does not indicate is what percentage of cyclists yelled at were told to get in the bike lane, versus having something else yelled at them. It could very well be that even if 100% of respondents had "get in the bike lane" yelled at they may still represent a miniscule percentage of all cyclists that were yelled at. Your poll fails to address that, but I think that's because you deliberately designed the poll to support your preconceived notion rather than to gather meaningfull data.

If you're genuinely interested in getting to the root cause of conflict between cyclists and motorists I would suggest you look at studies conducted into overcrowding and its effects. There is a very predictable pattern of behaviour in humans when they are put into a situation of overcrowding such as in traffic. I'm sure we've all seen the irrational behaviour shown by some motorists towards everyone else not just cyclists. I'll let you read the research if you're interested, there's mountains of it (hint=Google). The bottom line is that I'm not at all surprised by the hostility shown by motorists towards cyclists, especially in moderate or heavy traffic. It has more to do with cyclists being perceived as weaker/more vulnerable/less empowered and nothing to do with a white stripe painted on the road. My own experience on the road (6,000 - 10,000 miles per year, 15+ years) confirms this, to me at least
The poll data shows that 30% of the respondents have had "get in the bike lane" yelled at them on roads without bike lanes. No spin. That's just a fact.

Another fact is that 29% have had it yelled at them on roads with bike lanes.

Yet another fact is that 62% have never had it yelled at them.

What can we conclude from that? Mainly, that it's false that cyclists never have "get in the bike lane" yelled at them, which is all I sought to show with this survey (as evidence countering Bek's claim).

As far as my hypothesis about the term "bike lane" evolving a meaning of "space where cyclists belong" in the cultural jargon, while far from conclusive, the survey results seem to support it, and certainly do not refute it.

why are you misleadingly referring to that as a bike lane? you know, the law knows, the judge knows its not a bike lane. are you trying to perpetuate the belief that it IS a bike lane, CBHI?

now this, THIS is a bike friendly shoulder, and THAT'S a bike lane.
You really are clueless, try real hard to follow the thread again.:rolleyes:

What can we conclude from that? Mainly, that it's false that cyclists never have "get in the bike lane" yelled at them, which is all I sought to show with this survey (as evidence countering Bek's claim).No, you can only conclude that those particular cyclists have "get in the bike lane" yelled at them, your poll is statistically insignificant so you can't conclude anything beyond that. I've been accused by a motorist of being from a different planet, so what do you conclude from that? is astronomy anti-cycling?:rolleyes:

As far as my hypothesis about the term "bike lane" evolving a meaning of "space where cyclists belong" in the cultural jargon, while far from conclusive, the survey results seem to support it, and certainly do not refute it. Do you really need a poll to conclude that? it's a bike lane of course its a space where cyclists belong, which says absolutely nothing about cyclists belonging there exclusively.

What amazes me (and the reason I'm usually very disinterested in your threads) is how you purport to be interested in an honest dialogue regarding your cause yet you can't get beyond the dishonest obfuscation and doublespeak, at the cost of your credibility. It's a shame really, you're smart enough to be a decent communicator yet you allow your own zealotry to blind you.

No, you can only conclude that those particular cyclists have "get in the bike lane" yelled at them, your poll is statistically insignificant so you can't conclude anything beyond that. I've been accused by a motorist of being from a different planet, so what do you conclude from that? is astronomy anti-cycling?:rolleyes: I only need one person to say he has had "get in the bike lane" yelled at them to make my point that Bek's assertion that it doesn't happen is false (it's not my fault he made an absolute statement - but it makes it easy for me to refute). The fact that this poll is statistically insignificant simply means that I cannot assume these percentages are representative of the experiences of any cycling population at large, which I'm not doing.

Do you really need a poll to conclude that? No, it's a side issue.

it's a bike lane of course its a space where cyclists belong, which says absolutely nothing about cyclists belonging there exclusively. I've seen anecdotal evidence that some people use the term "bike lane" to generically refer to space that is out of the way of motorists that they think bicyclists are supposed to use, whether it's an official designated "bike lane" or not, whether there is even a bike lane anywhere around or not.

I know what "bike lane" means. What I'm talking about is what "bike lane" means to people who don't know what "bike lane" means. Language is always evolving, and changes typically occur in jargon before they make it into dictionaries. Every year new words and new meanings of existing words are added to the dictionaries. Not all jargon adoptions eventually make it into the dictionaries. Most probably die out, and I certainly hope this usage of "bike lane" follows that path. But my point is about the existence of that usage in jargon today, and some of the stories here, including but not limited to CB HI's court case, are examples of such usage. There are 26 people who responded that "get in the bike lane" has been yelled at them on streets without bike lanes at least once. What did those people yelling at each of those cyclists mean by "bike lane"? Perhaps some of them simply didn't realize that there was no bike lane on whatever street that was on. But does that explain all 26+ uses? Again, it's not conclusive, but I think it does support the idea that many people use the term "bike lane" to mean "whereever you're supposed to be that is not in my way", or something to that effect.


What amazes me (and the reason I'm usually very disinterested in your threads) is how you purport to be interested in an honest dialogue regarding your cause yet you can't get beyond the dishonest obfuscation and doublespeak, at the cost of your credibility. It's a shame really, you're smart enough to be a decent communicator yet you allow your own zealotry to blind you. I think if you honestly understood what I was trying to point out here, you would realize it's really nothing that startling, and that no doublespeak or obfuscation is involved. But if that's what you're looking for, you can find what appears to be doublespeak and/or obfuscation in just about anything anyone writes that is controversial in the slightest. To summarize:

a) It is not true that "when there's no bike lane, people don't get yelled at to get in the bike lane". It might not happen to everyone, honking or yelling other things might be more likely, but it happens.

b) One possible explanation for why some people yell "get in the bike lane" at cyclists on roads without bike lanes is because the term "bike lane" does not mean to them a portion of the road officially designated for primary use by bicyclists, but means something more generic like, "space where cyclists are supposed to be that is out of the way of motorists".

Do you honestly have an issue with a), a rather obvious point, and b), a purely speculative statement?

Where's the doublespeak?
Where's the obfuscation?

When riding in a bike lane, I've never been yelled at to get in the bike lane.

boy, HH really has his chamois in a bunch over white stripes on the road. white line phobia.

you ride in bike lanes when you sometimes commute by bike, dontchya, Head? I've seen the pictures....