Machka
06-07-07, 09:29 PM
When you people use the term "bike lane", you mean "shoulder", right? And if so ... why do you call it a "bike lane"?
View Full Version : 'Bike lane' question
John Forester
06-07-07, 09:46 PM
When you people use the term "bike lane", you mean "shoulder", right? And if so ... why do you call it a "bike lane"?
A bike lane is a lane on the roadway, not on the shoulder, which is not part of the roadway. A bike lane is for travel by bicycle, with crossflows by motor traffic minimized -- well, wherever there is a need for motor traffic to cross it, it is allowed to do so.
A bike lane is a lane on the roadway, not on the shoulder, which is not part of the roadway. A bike lane is for travel by bicycle, with crossflows by motor traffic minimized -- well, wherever there is a need for motor traffic to cross it, it is allowed to do so.
Machka
06-07-07, 10:02 PM
A bike lane is a lane on the roadway, not on the shoulder, which is not part of the roadway. A bike lane is for travel by bicycle, with crossflows by motor traffic minimized -- well, wherever there is a need for motor traffic to cross it, it is allowed to do so.
So ... what's the difference between one of these "bike lanes" and a shoulder? It still sounds like the same thing to me. And who determines that this "bike lane" is for travel by bicycle? Anyone can travel on a shoulder. In fact, they are actually there for cars to pull over onto, not technically for bicycles.
The attached picture shows one of the roads near where I live. I am standing on what I call a "shoulder". Is that what everyone here calls a "bike lane"?
.
So ... what's the difference between one of these "bike lanes" and a shoulder? It still sounds like the same thing to me. And who determines that this "bike lane" is for travel by bicycle? Anyone can travel on a shoulder. In fact, they are actually there for cars to pull over onto, not technically for bicycles.
The attached picture shows one of the roads near where I live. I am standing on what I call a "shoulder". Is that what everyone here calls a "bike lane"?
.
CB HI
06-07-07, 10:03 PM
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp03408vc9.jpg
Bikelane is the part with the funny little man, that has the funny hat painted between the 2 white lines.
Shoulder is the part to the right of the right white line.
Bikelane is the part with the funny little man, that has the funny hat painted between the 2 white lines.
Shoulder is the part to the right of the right white line.
cccorlew
06-07-07, 10:04 PM
Bike lane: Where they sweep the glass from off the regular road.
Machka
06-07-07, 10:07 PM
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp03408vc9.jpg
Bikelane is the part with the funny little man, that has the funny hat painted between the 2 white lines.
Shoulder is the part to the right of the right white line.
A parking lot?
Bikelane is the part with the funny little man, that has the funny hat painted between the 2 white lines.
Shoulder is the part to the right of the right white line.
A parking lot?
CB HI
06-07-07, 10:09 PM
A parking lot?
In many states - yes!
Your picture is a shoulder. I will take your shoulder over our bikelanes any day.
In many states - yes!
Your picture is a shoulder. I will take your shoulder over our bikelanes any day.
CB HI
06-07-07, 10:13 PM
In some places, bikelanes are painted to provide extra room for buses and trucks.
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp03400pu8.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcp03400pu8.jpg
CB HI
06-07-07, 10:16 PM
And this bikelane is designed to let motorist know how far into the road a parked cars door will open.
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture006ft3.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture006ft3.jpg
Dchiefransom
06-07-07, 10:18 PM
In many states - yes!
Your picture is a shoulder.
In many states, they paint the words "Bike Lane" on the shoulder, and that's the bike lane, especially in rural areas.;) Many times municipalities slap some paint down on the road where a bike realistically can't ride, and call it a bike lane.
Bike lanes are used a lot in urban areas. We rode today on roads with bike lanes from 3'-10' wide. These are roads/streets with curbs and no shoulder. We rode on some small "lanes" with no bike lane at all, like in front of Steve Jobs house.
Your picture is a shoulder.
In many states, they paint the words "Bike Lane" on the shoulder, and that's the bike lane, especially in rural areas.;) Many times municipalities slap some paint down on the road where a bike realistically can't ride, and call it a bike lane.
Bike lanes are used a lot in urban areas. We rode today on roads with bike lanes from 3'-10' wide. These are roads/streets with curbs and no shoulder. We rode on some small "lanes" with no bike lane at all, like in front of Steve Jobs house.
Machka
06-07-07, 10:19 PM
And this bikelane is designed to let motorist know how far into the road a parked cars door will open.
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture006ft3.jpg
That would be considered a parking lane in my part of the world.
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture006ft3.jpg
That would be considered a parking lane in my part of the world.
Machka
06-07-07, 10:23 PM
Your picture is a shoulder. I will take your shoulder over our bikelanes any day.
That's all we've got in my part of the world.
I've been racking my brain, and I think I've only seen a part of the road with a bicycle painted on it in Canberra, Australia. It was cute!! But I've never seen them out in the country.
That's all we've got in my part of the world.
I've been racking my brain, and I think I've only seen a part of the road with a bicycle painted on it in Canberra, Australia. It was cute!! But I've never seen them out in the country.
Bekologist
06-07-07, 11:28 PM
machka, you are just being obtuse, right?
I recommend a little trip to Victoria or Vancouver, where there is a fair amount of bike lanes and other bike infrastructure, and modal splits for biking as transportation are some of the highest in Canada.
I recommend a little trip to Victoria or Vancouver, where there is a fair amount of bike lanes and other bike infrastructure, and modal splits for biking as transportation are some of the highest in Canada.
Machka
06-07-07, 11:35 PM
I'm very serious when I say I've only ever seen what I guess must have been a "bike lane" in Canberra ... it was the cutest little thing ... about the width of a narrow sidewalk with bicycles painted on it. It amused me! :)
But then ... if I can at all help it ... I don't ride in cities. So I guess it's possible these things exist in some Canadian cities. I've just never seen them. And yet the way people talk about them here, you'd think they were really common or something.
But then ... if I can at all help it ... I don't ride in cities. So I guess it's possible these things exist in some Canadian cities. I've just never seen them. And yet the way people talk about them here, you'd think they were really common or something.
Bekologist
06-07-07, 11:39 PM
bike specific infrastructure is common in cities and suburban areas and eases travel on high speed arterials, encourages bicycling as transportation, increases % of bikes used as everyday transportation, makes drivers more cognizant of bicyclists on the road, moves curb huggers away from the curb, and helps decrease indexed accident rates for bicyclists.
Machka
06-07-07, 11:43 PM
bike specific infrastructure is common in cities and suburban areas and eases travel on high speed arterials, encourages bicycling as transportation, increases % of bikes used as everyday transportation, makes drivers more cognizant of bicyclists on the road, moves curb huggers away from the curb, and helps decrease indexed accident rates for bicyclists.
Well, I can assure you, there's none of that stuff going on in the city in which I currently live. Nor was there any of that stuff going on in the city in which I previously lived ... or the city before that ...
The closest thing I've ever seen to a "bike lane" in any city in the Canadian prairies would be Winnipeg's Diamond Lanes which are supposed to be lanes for busses, car-pools, taxis, and bicycles.
Well, I can assure you, there's none of that stuff going on in the city in which I currently live. Nor was there any of that stuff going on in the city in which I previously lived ... or the city before that ...
The closest thing I've ever seen to a "bike lane" in any city in the Canadian prairies would be Winnipeg's Diamond Lanes which are supposed to be lanes for busses, car-pools, taxis, and bicycles.
Bekologist
06-07-07, 11:53 PM
take a TRIP to Victoria BC, machka. highest % of bike commuters anywhere in Canada, i believe. lots of bike lanes, which are emphatically NOT 'shoulders.'
are you sure you're not just being obtuse?
are you sure you're not just being obtuse?
Machka
06-08-07, 12:49 AM
take a TRIP to Victoria BC, machka. highest % of bike commuters anywhere in Canada, i believe. lots of bike lanes, which are emphatically NOT 'shoulders.'
are you sure you're not just being obtuse?
I took a trip to Vancouver Island at the beginning of April, but cycled sort of around the Nanaimo area, out in the country, and never went into Victoria. There were LOTS of cyclists out there ... and the roads had shoulders ... but no "bike lanes".
And no, I'm not being obtuse ... I just have real trouble believing that "bike lanes" are all that common.
are you sure you're not just being obtuse?
I took a trip to Vancouver Island at the beginning of April, but cycled sort of around the Nanaimo area, out in the country, and never went into Victoria. There were LOTS of cyclists out there ... and the roads had shoulders ... but no "bike lanes".
And no, I'm not being obtuse ... I just have real trouble believing that "bike lanes" are all that common.
I-Like-To-Bike
06-08-07, 04:36 AM
I took a trip to Vancouver Island at the beginning of April, but cycled sort of around the Nanaimo area, out in the country, and never went into Victoria. There were LOTS of cyclists out there ... and the roads had shoulders ... but no "bike lanes".
And no, I'm not being obtuse ... I just have real trouble believing that "bike lanes" are all that common.
If I never went into cities I might believe subways and tall office buildings were only figments of somebody's imagination. And if I never left the city I might not believe that such things as barns or grain elevators are very common. But then, I'm not so obtuse or provincial.
And no, I'm not being obtuse ... I just have real trouble believing that "bike lanes" are all that common.
If I never went into cities I might believe subways and tall office buildings were only figments of somebody's imagination. And if I never left the city I might not believe that such things as barns or grain elevators are very common. But then, I'm not so obtuse or provincial.
genec
06-08-07, 07:06 AM
So ... what's the difference between one of these "bike lanes" and a shoulder? It still sounds like the same thing to me. And who determines that this "bike lane" is for travel by bicycle? Anyone can travel on a shoulder. In fact, they are actually there for cars to pull over onto, not technically for bicycles.
The attached picture shows one of the roads near where I live. I am standing on what I call a "shoulder". Is that what everyone here calls a "bike lane"?
.
Jeeze that thing looks to be nearly 10 feet wide. If bike lanes were only that wide. :D
Bike lanes are generally about 5 feet wide, and are marked in some manner to indicate "Bike Lane."
The attached picture shows one of the roads near where I live. I am standing on what I call a "shoulder". Is that what everyone here calls a "bike lane"?
.
Jeeze that thing looks to be nearly 10 feet wide. If bike lanes were only that wide. :D
Bike lanes are generally about 5 feet wide, and are marked in some manner to indicate "Bike Lane."
sbhikes
06-08-07, 08:04 AM
I don't think Canada is real. I've never actually seen Canada. Some people say they are Canadian, but they speak English and sound more like they're probably from the Mid-west. Everybody knows the only thing above the US is Alaska and ice, so I'm pretty sure that Canada is either just an empty spot above the US or possibly a place to park cars.
Machka
06-08-07, 09:48 AM
I don't think Canada is real. I've never actually seen Canada. Some people say they are Canadian, but they speak English and sound more like they're probably from the Mid-west. Everybody knows the only thing above the US is Alaska and ice, so I'm pretty sure that Canada is either just an empty spot above the US or possibly a place to park cars.
:lol: :lol:
We don't have cars up here ... too much ice and snow. We use dog sleds!! :D Everyone parks their cars as soon as they cross the border and gets a dog sled to use for the rest of their trip. Oh, and if you're cycling, you'll want studs for your tires or you'll slip on the ice.
I have no doubt at all that "bike lanes" exist. I've seen them!! But in all the travels I've done in North America, Australia, and Europe ... in the cities (yes, I have been to many, many cities) ,and in the country (where I prefer to be), I have seen ONE city with "bike lanes" - Canberra, Australia - and those bike lanes were about 1-2 ft wide.
When I lived in Winnipeg, cyclists also discussed "bike lanes", but of course it was all hypothetical.
So, since "bike lanes" are relatively rare, sort of like blue moons, I wonder why there is so much discussion here about them. Is it all wishful thinking?? I'm thinking that instead of "bike lanes", a more relavent discussion might be about shoulders, and the rumble strips they insist on laying down on the shoulders.
:lol: :lol:
We don't have cars up here ... too much ice and snow. We use dog sleds!! :D Everyone parks their cars as soon as they cross the border and gets a dog sled to use for the rest of their trip. Oh, and if you're cycling, you'll want studs for your tires or you'll slip on the ice.
I have no doubt at all that "bike lanes" exist. I've seen them!! But in all the travels I've done in North America, Australia, and Europe ... in the cities (yes, I have been to many, many cities) ,and in the country (where I prefer to be), I have seen ONE city with "bike lanes" - Canberra, Australia - and those bike lanes were about 1-2 ft wide.
When I lived in Winnipeg, cyclists also discussed "bike lanes", but of course it was all hypothetical.
So, since "bike lanes" are relatively rare, sort of like blue moons, I wonder why there is so much discussion here about them. Is it all wishful thinking?? I'm thinking that instead of "bike lanes", a more relavent discussion might be about shoulders, and the rumble strips they insist on laying down on the shoulders.
Machka
06-08-07, 11:04 AM
:lol:
Well, this has been hilarious!! :D
I thought I'd try an experiement ... I'd ask some little question and see how long it would be before the insults started flying ..........
....... not even a page!! :lol:
Doesn't take much to get the people over in this forum riled up!!!! :lol:
(and from some comments here, I have my suspicions that a lot of people don't ride much outside their immediate local areas)
Enjoy your weekend rides everyone!! I think some of you need to blow off some steam ... why not try riding some place you've never ridden before ... explore ... see what's out there ... have some fun!! :D
Well, this has been hilarious!! :D
I thought I'd try an experiement ... I'd ask some little question and see how long it would be before the insults started flying ..........
....... not even a page!! :lol:
Doesn't take much to get the people over in this forum riled up!!!! :lol:
(and from some comments here, I have my suspicions that a lot of people don't ride much outside their immediate local areas)
Enjoy your weekend rides everyone!! I think some of you need to blow off some steam ... why not try riding some place you've never ridden before ... explore ... see what's out there ... have some fun!! :D
Bekologist
06-08-07, 11:35 AM
I've been laughing at machka's silly comments. now she insults the crowd with the 'you don't ride much outside your local areas' business.
blech.
blech.
noisebeam
06-08-07, 11:50 AM
(and from some comments here, I have my suspicions that a lot of people don't ride much outside their immediate local areas)[/I]
I wonder if you do?
(Keep in mind of course based on your ride descriptions I've seen elsewhere I consider the entire country of Canada, err make that North America, to be your immediate local area! Oh, and those short jaunts in Europe and Australia don't count as 'much')
Al
I wonder if you do?
(Keep in mind of course based on your ride descriptions I've seen elsewhere I consider the entire country of Canada, err make that North America, to be your immediate local area! Oh, and those short jaunts in Europe and Australia don't count as 'much')
Al
Machka
06-08-07, 12:02 PM
I wonder if you do?
(Keep in mind of course based on your ride descriptions I've seen elsewhere I consider the entire country of Canada, err make that North America, to be your immediate local area!)
Al
The whole world is my "local area". :)
But my apologies for raising the tempers of some of the Advocacy forum's regulars. :) It's just that every time I come in this forum to have a look around, everyone is fighting ... over every little thing. And sure enough, I just have to ask a simple little question ... and people get upset. When I think of "advocates" I think of calm people, defending others, standing up for others, supporting others ... not people who get upset so easily ... and over such incredibly minor issues.
And the thing is, whether you believe me or not, I am telling the truth when I say that in all my years of cycling all over the world, I have only seen bike lanes in one city. And I have sort of wondered if my "shoulders" are your "bike lanes". But it is not that big a deal ... I must not have ridden in the few cities that have them ... and some of you frequently ride in the few cities that have them. Nothing to get upset about. No need to throw insults at me because I haven't seen bike lanes. I'm not throwing insults at you because you have.
Peace. Enjoy the beautiful summer weather. :)
(Keep in mind of course based on your ride descriptions I've seen elsewhere I consider the entire country of Canada, err make that North America, to be your immediate local area!)
Al
The whole world is my "local area". :)
But my apologies for raising the tempers of some of the Advocacy forum's regulars. :) It's just that every time I come in this forum to have a look around, everyone is fighting ... over every little thing. And sure enough, I just have to ask a simple little question ... and people get upset. When I think of "advocates" I think of calm people, defending others, standing up for others, supporting others ... not people who get upset so easily ... and over such incredibly minor issues.
And the thing is, whether you believe me or not, I am telling the truth when I say that in all my years of cycling all over the world, I have only seen bike lanes in one city. And I have sort of wondered if my "shoulders" are your "bike lanes". But it is not that big a deal ... I must not have ridden in the few cities that have them ... and some of you frequently ride in the few cities that have them. Nothing to get upset about. No need to throw insults at me because I haven't seen bike lanes. I'm not throwing insults at you because you have.
Peace. Enjoy the beautiful summer weather. :)
zeytoun
06-08-07, 12:17 PM
Well I'm glad we were able to give you information for your Breaching Experiment. Although I personally do not think it is polite to belittle another group's social norms, no matter how trivial it may seem to an outsider. But that's my world-view.
Although I'm not sure you upset anyone. Although they did rightly question whether you were being disingenuous, considering your 7,000+ posts on this forum. But you were sincere, "sort of"...
Cheers, and have fun riding.
Although I'm not sure you upset anyone. Although they did rightly question whether you were being disingenuous, considering your 7,000+ posts on this forum. But you were sincere, "sort of"...
Cheers, and have fun riding.
patc
06-08-07, 12:27 PM
According to the City of Ottawa Draft Cycling Plan, there are currently about:
- 95 km of bike lanes in Ottawa
- 17 km of WCL (aka WOL)
- 141 km of city-owned pathways (MUP)
- 97 km of NCC-owned pathways (MUP, federally owned)
There are about 50km of bike lanes in Toronto, and I have seen them in Montreal, Gatineau, and Vancouver as well. Bike lanes, and other reserved lanes (e.g. bus lanes, HOV lanes) exist as part of the "traveled way" on the road, with the same status as any other lane other than only allowing some type(s) of vehicles.
Just wanted to say that, in case some poor slob reads this thread in the future and gets confused.
- 95 km of bike lanes in Ottawa
- 17 km of WCL (aka WOL)
- 141 km of city-owned pathways (MUP)
- 97 km of NCC-owned pathways (MUP, federally owned)
There are about 50km of bike lanes in Toronto, and I have seen them in Montreal, Gatineau, and Vancouver as well. Bike lanes, and other reserved lanes (e.g. bus lanes, HOV lanes) exist as part of the "traveled way" on the road, with the same status as any other lane other than only allowing some type(s) of vehicles.
Just wanted to say that, in case some poor slob reads this thread in the future and gets confused.
I-Like-To-Bike
06-08-07, 12:36 PM
And the thing is, whether you believe me or not, I am telling the truth when I say that in all my years of cycling all over the world, I have only seen bike lanes in one city.
I believe you. I also believe you see what you want to see and filter out the rest. Good malleable acolyte material receptive to extreme VC dogma.
I believe you. I also believe you see what you want to see and filter out the rest. Good malleable acolyte material receptive to extreme VC dogma.
cooker
06-08-07, 01:12 PM
:lol:
Well, this has been hilarious!! :D
I thought I'd try an experiement ... I'd ask some little question and see how long it would be before the insults started flying ..........
So you were deliberately trolling and wonder why you got a hostile reaction? Could it be because you were deliberately trolling?
Well, this has been hilarious!! :D
I thought I'd try an experiement ... I'd ask some little question and see how long it would be before the insults started flying ..........
So you were deliberately trolling and wonder why you got a hostile reaction? Could it be because you were deliberately trolling?
cooker
06-08-07, 01:20 PM
http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_780_237_0_43/http%3B/content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+Hall/Business+Units/Transportation+Planning/Transportation+Solutions/Cycling/Bike+Lane+on+9A+Street+NW.htm
As part of The City of Calgary's commitment to encouraging alternative modes of transportation, a dedicated northbound bicycle lane has been installed on 9A Street N.W. between Memorial Drive and 4 Avenue N.W.
http://content.calgary.ca/NR/rdonlyres/evrgg3avez4vvs2rbvrml7rdmbrfzr2p4g433zrc2xse7qmz2zy3xau7564v3swlqjfzo7gvfvrwupncwu2vfrxwqhe/cycling_contra_flow_lane.gif
As part of The City of Calgary's commitment to encouraging alternative modes of transportation, a dedicated northbound bicycle lane has been installed on 9A Street N.W. between Memorial Drive and 4 Avenue N.W.
http://content.calgary.ca/NR/rdonlyres/evrgg3avez4vvs2rbvrml7rdmbrfzr2p4g433zrc2xse7qmz2zy3xau7564v3swlqjfzo7gvfvrwupncwu2vfrxwqhe/cycling_contra_flow_lane.gif
cooker
06-08-07, 01:26 PM
Calgary Cycling Map. (http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/BU/engineering_services/emaps/bicycle_pathways_map.pdf) On street bike lanes are blue-hatched lines.
zeytoun
06-08-07, 01:52 PM
I believe you. I also believe you see what you want to see and filter out the rest.
Either that or:
I don't ride in cities
Either that or:
I don't ride in cities
invisiblehand
06-08-07, 01:59 PM
I am standing on what I call a "shoulder". Is that what everyone here calls a "bike lane"?
.
No.
Regardless, if that is what the roads and scenery are like where you live, the boss and I are heading there.
-G
.
No.
Regardless, if that is what the roads and scenery are like where you live, the boss and I are heading there.
-G
cooker
06-08-07, 02:32 PM
No.
Regardless, if that is what the roads and scenery are like where you live, the boss and I are heading there.
-G
Alberta is beautiful and has hundreds, maybe thousands of kilometers of rural bike lan...er, paved shoulder.
Regardless, if that is what the roads and scenery are like where you live, the boss and I are heading there.
-G
Alberta is beautiful and has hundreds, maybe thousands of kilometers of rural bike lan...er, paved shoulder.
CB HI
06-09-07, 12:58 AM
Machka,
Some of us enjoyed playing in your thread and having some bikelane fun.
Some of us enjoyed playing in your thread and having some bikelane fun.
I-Like-To-Bike
06-09-07, 06:02 AM
Machka,
Some of us enjoyed playing in your thread and having some bikelane fun.
No doubt. Bike lane hysterics at play. Hilarious!
Some of us enjoyed playing in your thread and having some bikelane fun.
No doubt. Bike lane hysterics at play. Hilarious!
Machka
06-09-07, 01:08 PM
Machka,
Some of us enjoyed playing in your thread and having some bikelane fun.
:)
I liked the photos you posted. :D Seems to me as though people in your part of the world figure bike lanes were put there for their parking convenience.
The shoulders in my part of the world are multi-use things ... for vehicles who have to travel significantly slower than the regular speed of traffic because there is something wrong with them, or because they are transporting something, or because they are tractors and can't reach highway speeds ... for extra wide vehicles who don't fit into a lane (farm and oil rig equipment) ... for vehicles to pull over and park when they've got a flat or something ... for snowmobiles, quads, and stuff like that ... and they'll reluctantly let cyclists ride on them.
I suspect that where bike lanes exist, it's the same situation.
Some of us enjoyed playing in your thread and having some bikelane fun.
:)
I liked the photos you posted. :D Seems to me as though people in your part of the world figure bike lanes were put there for their parking convenience.
The shoulders in my part of the world are multi-use things ... for vehicles who have to travel significantly slower than the regular speed of traffic because there is something wrong with them, or because they are transporting something, or because they are tractors and can't reach highway speeds ... for extra wide vehicles who don't fit into a lane (farm and oil rig equipment) ... for vehicles to pull over and park when they've got a flat or something ... for snowmobiles, quads, and stuff like that ... and they'll reluctantly let cyclists ride on them.
I suspect that where bike lanes exist, it's the same situation.
2manybikes
06-09-07, 05:06 PM
:lol: :lol: We don't have cars up here ... too much ice and snow. We use dog sleds!! :D
:lol: I knew it had to be true !!
Are you a vehicular dog sledist?
Can you bring all the dogs inside at work? Or do you have to lock them up outside?
:D
:lol: I knew it had to be true !!
Are you a vehicular dog sledist?
Can you bring all the dogs inside at work? Or do you have to lock them up outside?
:D
TGroleau
06-09-07, 07:44 PM
I must not have ridden in the few cities that have them ... and some of you frequently ride in the few cities that have them.
I haven't been to Canada in years so I can't comment on lanes there but I travel for work 2~3 times a year within the US. When I travel, I'm usually in a new town for just a couple days and I usually walk a bit but rarely ride. From these trips I've seen bike lanes in: San Diego CA, Phoenix AZ, Portland OR, Denver CO, Chicago IL, Washington DC, and Buffalo NY. Bike lanes certainly weren't everywhere in those cities, but all of them had some bike lanes. I don't remember seeing any bike lanes in Boston MA, Nashville TN, San Antonio TX, or Pittsburgh PA (they may have been there, I just don't remember seeing any).
While my work travel is hardly a random sample, I've say 7 out of 11 implies more than a "few cities" in the US.
From my riding experience in the midwest, I've ridden on bike lanes in Waukegan IL, Winthrop Harbor IL, Madison WI, Paddock Lake WI, and Marquette MI. Some of those aren't quite "cities" but they've all got bike lanes.
For the purposes of this discussion, I'm restricting the "bike lane" label to space on a roadway marked or separated by paint from the space where motorized vehicles are supposed to go. Bike facilities that are physically separated from motor traffic by barriers or space would be a different discussion.
Tom
I haven't been to Canada in years so I can't comment on lanes there but I travel for work 2~3 times a year within the US. When I travel, I'm usually in a new town for just a couple days and I usually walk a bit but rarely ride. From these trips I've seen bike lanes in: San Diego CA, Phoenix AZ, Portland OR, Denver CO, Chicago IL, Washington DC, and Buffalo NY. Bike lanes certainly weren't everywhere in those cities, but all of them had some bike lanes. I don't remember seeing any bike lanes in Boston MA, Nashville TN, San Antonio TX, or Pittsburgh PA (they may have been there, I just don't remember seeing any).
While my work travel is hardly a random sample, I've say 7 out of 11 implies more than a "few cities" in the US.
From my riding experience in the midwest, I've ridden on bike lanes in Waukegan IL, Winthrop Harbor IL, Madison WI, Paddock Lake WI, and Marquette MI. Some of those aren't quite "cities" but they've all got bike lanes.
For the purposes of this discussion, I'm restricting the "bike lane" label to space on a roadway marked or separated by paint from the space where motorized vehicles are supposed to go. Bike facilities that are physically separated from motor traffic by barriers or space would be a different discussion.
Tom
Machka
06-09-07, 08:42 PM
In the US, I've cycled in and visited a few cities ... Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento, Cheyenne, Reno, Des Moines, Pittsburg, Boston, and the outskirts of Chicago to name a few. I saw no bike lanes in any of those cities. Not saying they weren't there ... but it makes me wonder if bike lanes are like the MUPs in Winnipeg - they exist near the city parks and a few other places, but nowhere really useful, and they don't go anywhere.
Outside of cities (because I prefer to avoid cities whenever possible), I've cycled in 22 States, and have visited and additional 12 (as well as lots of places outside the US) and have never seen bike lanes. I have seen and cycled on MUPs (although I prefer to avoid those, I have to say that the MUPs in Eugene, OR and between Sacramento and Davis, CA weren't too bad.)
Oh wait ... Davis, Ca might have had a few bike lanes. Davis had quite a few bicycle-related things and calls itself the "bicycle capital of the US". And in thinking about college towns, it seems to me that Boulder, Co had a few bike lanes too. I was kind of focussed on the 1200K events I was about to start when I was in those towns, and not so much on what the roads looked like.
Outside of cities (because I prefer to avoid cities whenever possible), I've cycled in 22 States, and have visited and additional 12 (as well as lots of places outside the US) and have never seen bike lanes. I have seen and cycled on MUPs (although I prefer to avoid those, I have to say that the MUPs in Eugene, OR and between Sacramento and Davis, CA weren't too bad.)
Oh wait ... Davis, Ca might have had a few bike lanes. Davis had quite a few bicycle-related things and calls itself the "bicycle capital of the US". And in thinking about college towns, it seems to me that Boulder, Co had a few bike lanes too. I was kind of focussed on the 1200K events I was about to start when I was in those towns, and not so much on what the roads looked like.
Bekologist
06-09-07, 11:18 PM
jeezus, machka, you are terribly unobservant. you've ridden all those cities, and really didn't recognize any bike lanes? :roflmao: boulder, davis??? those are both cities with over 95 percent of their arterial roads striped with bike lanes and facilties. and you, the simple canadian country bumpkin, might have noticed some bike facilties....
you sound blind to your riding enviroment- not very savvy for a high mileage cyclist. ignorant too. you really don't understand the difference between a Multiple use path, a bike lane and a shoulder.....i'm positive you think you're being witty, but please. respect yourself.
you sound blind to your riding enviroment- not very savvy for a high mileage cyclist. ignorant too. you really don't understand the difference between a Multiple use path, a bike lane and a shoulder.....i'm positive you think you're being witty, but please. respect yourself.
Machka
06-10-07, 12:12 AM
Oh Bekologist, I think you've lost your sense of humor since you started to spend most of your time in the Advocacy forum. :lol:
Done any good tours lately?
Done any good tours lately?
Machka
06-10-07, 12:21 AM
:lol: I knew it had to be true !!
Are you a vehicular dog sledist?
Can you bring all the dogs inside at work? Or do you have to lock them up outside?
:D
The dog sleds and bicycles can co-exist quite nicely. We give each other quite a bit of room. :) And we have to lock them up outside ... we've got a kennel area for them outside each business. See ... their fur is too thick to have them inside for any length of time, plus they get noisy. :D
Here's a shot of me on one of the local MUPs in Winnipeg.
.
Are you a vehicular dog sledist?
Can you bring all the dogs inside at work? Or do you have to lock them up outside?
:D
The dog sleds and bicycles can co-exist quite nicely. We give each other quite a bit of room. :) And we have to lock them up outside ... we've got a kennel area for them outside each business. See ... their fur is too thick to have them inside for any length of time, plus they get noisy. :D
Here's a shot of me on one of the local MUPs in Winnipeg.
.
Bekologist
06-10-07, 12:27 AM
Done any good tours lately?
rode to portland for a week of riding, over mother's day, to check out the bike lanes, MUP's & facilites there.
Short weekend tours otherwise. looking to do a ski-n-bike tour up to the North Cascades before june is over. summer touring season is just getting into swing, but I'm seeing someone, which is cutting into my free time!
here's a North Cascade MUP, and a Central Cascades shoulder, and a Seattle bikelane, in comparison to your winnepeg recreation infrastructure.....
rode to portland for a week of riding, over mother's day, to check out the bike lanes, MUP's & facilites there.
Short weekend tours otherwise. looking to do a ski-n-bike tour up to the North Cascades before june is over. summer touring season is just getting into swing, but I'm seeing someone, which is cutting into my free time!
here's a North Cascade MUP, and a Central Cascades shoulder, and a Seattle bikelane, in comparison to your winnepeg recreation infrastructure.....
CB HI
06-10-07, 02:06 AM
jeezus, machka, you are terribly unobservant. you've ridden all those cities, and really didn't recognize any bike lanes? :roflmao: boulder, davis??? those are both cities with over 95 percent of their arterial roads striped with bike lanes and facilties. and you, the simple canadian country bumpkin, might have noticed some bike facilties....
you sound blind to your riding enviroment- not very savvy for a high mileage cyclist. ignorant too. you really don't understand the difference between a Multiple use path, a bike lane and a shoulder.....i'm positive you think you're being witty, but please. respect yourself.
Bek,
More name calling and playing the numbers games with the statistics again.
Let us take Boulder:
Note how he says “95 percent of their arterial roads”.
Right off the bat he has excluded counting most of the roads in Boulder by the words “arterial roads”. Why, because those are basically the only roads in Boulder with short portions that have bikelanes. Most (to all) other roads do not have any bikelanes.
Also, Boulder will count it’s road as being bikelaned even if the bikelane only covers one block of a 4 mile long road.
Bek, how about some honest statistics for Boulder, like total miles of road having bikelanes (on both sides of the road) verses total miles of road in Boulder.
you sound blind to your riding enviroment- not very savvy for a high mileage cyclist. ignorant too. you really don't understand the difference between a Multiple use path, a bike lane and a shoulder.....i'm positive you think you're being witty, but please. respect yourself.
Bek,
More name calling and playing the numbers games with the statistics again.
Let us take Boulder:
Note how he says “95 percent of their arterial roads”.
Right off the bat he has excluded counting most of the roads in Boulder by the words “arterial roads”. Why, because those are basically the only roads in Boulder with short portions that have bikelanes. Most (to all) other roads do not have any bikelanes.
Also, Boulder will count it’s road as being bikelaned even if the bikelane only covers one block of a 4 mile long road.
Bek, how about some honest statistics for Boulder, like total miles of road having bikelanes (on both sides of the road) verses total miles of road in Boulder.
I-Like-To-Bike
06-10-07, 07:29 AM
Bek,
More name calling and playing the numbers games with the statistics again.
Whatsa madda? This thread isn't funny no more unless kept devoted to Macha's and your clever bike lane hysteria repartee? :rolleyes:
More name calling and playing the numbers games with the statistics again.
Whatsa madda? This thread isn't funny no more unless kept devoted to Macha's and your clever bike lane hysteria repartee? :rolleyes:
Bekologist
06-10-07, 09:50 AM
Actually, Boulder, CO- 97 percent of arterial roads are bike laned....
those are League of American Bicyclists stats, quoted from a Wall Street Journal article, CBHI.
I'm not 'making this stuff up' dude.
those are League of American Bicyclists stats, quoted from a Wall Street Journal article, CBHI.
I'm not 'making this stuff up' dude.
John Forester
06-10-07, 10:47 AM
Actually, Boulder, CO- 97 percent of arterial roads are bike laned....
those are League of American Bicyclists stats, quoted from a Wall Street Journal article, CBHI.
I'm not 'making this stuff up' dude.
So what, Boulder's a university town where bicycle transportation is important, to both motorists and to cyclists (in different ways), and where bikeway superstition rules.
those are League of American Bicyclists stats, quoted from a Wall Street Journal article, CBHI.
I'm not 'making this stuff up' dude.
So what, Boulder's a university town where bicycle transportation is important, to both motorists and to cyclists (in different ways), and where bikeway superstition rules.
Bekologist
06-10-07, 11:21 AM
your are laughable in your anti- bike lane stance.
"so what?" that's a joke, right, john?
bike infrastructure helps Boulder attain 21 percent bicycle commuter rate- and, NO, john, those are not all college students in Boulder.
"so what?" that's a joke, right, john?
bike infrastructure helps Boulder attain 21 percent bicycle commuter rate- and, NO, john, those are not all college students in Boulder.
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