Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - The 2007 National 24-Hour Challenge

Roll call!

I'm rider number 408. Hoping to ride more miles than my rider number. I'll be there in a Last Chance jersey. Say hello if you see me!

Who else is in?

Good luck, and say a prayer or three for better (cooler) weather than last year.

I'll be there. I'm shooting for 400, so I hope to ride more miles than my number (371) as well.

This will be my first time, so I'm really looking forward to it. My plan is pretty simple. (1) Don't spend too much energy trying to stay with the front group early if they're going too fast. I definitely want a good draft for the first loop, but I don't want to kill myself for it. (2) Stay on the bike as much as possible. A lot of off-bike time killed my 400k, but what the heck. Brevets are for fun anyway, right?

How long does it take for them to mark that you've completed each loop? Do you spend much time waiting in line for that? I would assume it might get a little crowded at the end of the first loop.

I'll be there. I'm shooting for 400, so I hope to ride more miles than my number (371) as well.

Excellent! Sounds like we may be seeing a lot of each other out there!


This will be my first time, so I'm really looking forward to it. My plan is pretty simple. (1) Don't spend too much energy trying to stay with the front group early if they're going too fast. I definitely want a good draft for the first loop, but I don't want to kill myself for it. (2) Stay on the bike as much as possible.

That's the right plan. Good luck implementing it. I went out way, way too fast last year and then paid for it for the next 18 hours. That really hurt. Bad idea. Must. Learn. From. Mistakes....


How long does it take for them to mark that you've completed each loop? Do you spend much time waiting in line for that? I would assume it might get a little crowded at the end of the first loop.

They're extremely efficient. I've only done this ride the last two years, but they have machine-like organizational skillz. Seconds, tops, to get you punched and on your way. The big loop is big enough to really spread the group of 400+ riders out dramatically. I finished with the leaders last year. There were only 12 of us left. The year before I was with a few stragglers just off the pace of the leaders and there was no one anywhere near us. On the night loops both years I wasn't even unclipping. Trackstand. Punch. If over the course of the 24-hour ride you lose more than 2 minutes waiting for punches, I'd be surprised.

Actually -- I take it back -- there will be some wait for the first checkpoint at about 33 miles. As you get within 5 miles of it, the pace of the lead group will rise dramatically and it'll be a race to get there. That happened the last 2 years and it really split the lead group up quite a bit, but I imagine behind us there was probably some wait. The pack was well over 100 riders when the attacks started going off!

Also, you'll do a 10-mile lap and then come by the school (which is extremely cool -- hundreds of folks will be chreeing you as you pass by!) and then ride through town. Just as you leave town, you hit a climb of some significance. Not long, but steep. If you're in a big group, by all means, stay as far left as you possibly can so you can have some options for getting by people. This hill will sort the group really good and both years it's been a real disaster as a lot of the slower riders who hung with the lead pack for the first ten miles realize that they're not going to hang for long and, think, gee, doesn't this hill look like a nice place to back off a bit? Carnage results. There was a bad wreck there two years ago as someone got into another person's rear wheel and last year while I didn't see anyone go down, there was a lot of cussing and mashing of gears as folks try to sort out into appropriate groups. After that (and especially after the first checkpoint) things will mellow quite a bit.

Further unsolicited advice: Don't ever bridge any gap. If the large group you're in fractures and you'd rather be in the group of folks up the road, just hang back and wait for someone else to bridge up. I burned a lot of energy closing gaps my first year, when I was pretty inexperienced. Since then I've learned that there's always someone like me (inexperienced; impatient) who will provide a tow up to the front group if I just hang out long enough. :D Conserve energy!

As a first-timer, be advised that the course isn't flat. The 127-mile loop has some roll to it in places. The 7-mile night loop has a climb on it that you'll big-ring in the evening but then crawl up in the 39x23 after sunrise, after you've seen that bugger 30 times. It'll hurt good! So the message is take it a little easier than you might otherwise be inclined to. It's a tough course. If the wind blows, parts of it are really exposed. And just pray we don't have last year's heat!

Is drafting allowed? I am doing the 24 hourTexas Time Trial and it has a no drafting rule. I did it last year and it turned out to be just a century for me because of a few problems. This year I am hoping to make it to at least 300 miles. Good luck!

That's the right plan. Good luck implementing it. I went out way, way too fast last year and then paid for it for the next 18 hours. That really hurt. Bad idea. Must. Learn. From. Mistakes....

The good news is that I've done a good job of controlling myself in brevets this year. The bad news is that, while there's always a little hidden competitiveness when you're riding with others, I don't look at brevets as competitive rides, and I haven't been going into them with time goals. So I want to say that I'll be able to control myself, but it's going to be a different situation and I definitely have a goal hanging over my head. One of my goals this year has been to do a solo double in less than 12 hours. It sounds simple- just average 17 mph for the whole ride. But I've tried twice this year and failed both times, mainly because I get this crazy idea in my head like, "Hey, if I average 19 for the first 100 I'll be able to relax and take it easy on the 2nd 100." That ends up killing me later on, though I prefer to blame my failures on things like "wind" and "I didn't eat enough." ;)



Actually -- I take it back -- there will be some wait for the first checkpoint at about 33 miles. As you get within 5 miles of it, the pace of the lead group will rise dramatically and it'll be a race to get there. That happened the last 2 years and it really split the lead group up quite a bit, but I imagine behind us there was probably some wait. The pack was well over 100 riders when the attacks started going off!

That's good info to know. I'll have to think about it and decide if that's a match worth burning.



Further unsolicited advice: Don't ever bridge any gap. If the large group you're in fractures and you'd rather be in the group of folks up the road, just hang back and wait for someone else to bridge up. I burned a lot of energy closing gaps my first year, when I was pretty inexperienced. Since then I've learned that there's always someone like me (inexperienced; impatient) who will provide a tow up to the front group if I just hang out long enough. :D Conserve energy!

Funny...I tried to bridge a gap early on in RAIN last year. Definitely a bad idea.

400 miles is a pretty tough goal for me. I definitely couldn't do it solo, but I've been close to 200 miles in 12 hours and I'm hoping drafting will be enough to give me the little extra speed I need. But then again, if I get too competitive it could knock me to an even lower level. What I really need is a semi in front of me going a constant 18 mph and I'd be great. :)

Is drafting allowed? I am doing the 24 hourTexas Time Trial and it has a no drafting rule. I did it last year and it turned out to be just a century for me because of a few problems. This year I am hoping to make it to at least 300 miles. Good luck!

Drafting is allowed and I'm personally a big fan of it. In 2005 I rode nearly the whole ride in various groups. I was much stronger in 2006 but was by myself for good portions of the ride, and ended up with 40 less miles. Boo!

I'm planning on Texas again this year. I had a great time there last year. Hopefully I'll see ya there!

Good luck to all. I'm surprised that for the size of the crowd quad centuries are pretty hard to come by. I understand the event seems have "weather" issues.

I would assume that Octo guy hasn't ridden a quad? I also wonder what kind of support crew/setup you will have. And for that matter, whether or not you've hired and "guns" or "rabbits" to act as domestiques.

The easiest way to ride a quad would be to establish a team before hand, sit on the lead group for a predetermined distance, such as 100 miles and then go into dedicated routine among members.As members tire, or remain strong, re-discuss goals and adjust routine for best outcomes.......

Good luck to all. I'm surprised that for the size of the crowd quad centuries are pretty hard to come by. I understand the event seems have "weather" issues.

Thanks for the luck. We'll need it. The prelimiary weather forecasts look bad. High in the high 80s, which in that part of the world means a strong South wind. Ugh. Cooler than last year, I guess, but it'll still be a real challenge not to have electrolyte/hydtration/stomach/cramping/you-name-it issues if that forecast holds true.


I would assume that Octo guy hasn't ridden a quad?

Octo guy has done many quads, just not in 24 hours (I got 394 miles at the '05 24-hour, but have had a run of lackluster results in 24-hour races since then. I'd like to ride the 425 at Sebring in '08 so that I can get a 3rd RAAM-qualified plaque and say I've qualified in every way but for riding RAAM, but time-trialing 425 miles, even on a flat course, is really, really hard to do. A big part of meeting that goal is going to be to get that number, or close to it, at Michigan. It's a mental thing.


I also wonder what kind of support crew/setup you will have. And for that matter, whether or not you've hired and "guns" or "rabbits" to act as domestiques.

I'm self-crewing this year although I'll likely have some occasional help from a good friend's crew. My set-up is two coolers full of bottles and drinks (no wasted time filing bottles; just grab-and-go), all food pre-packaged in zip-locs for on-bike consumption, and a host of tools and other supplies at the ready in a nice, well-chosen location. Has worked great for me at Calvin's (7 minutes and 10 minutes off the bike, total, including bathroom stops), Metamora (6 minutes off the bike), and Texas (500 miles with less than 2 non-sleeping hours off the bike). Worked great for me at Michigan last year, but I rode like I had a lobotomy so being efficient at the start/stop was totally irrelevant to the outcome!


The easiest way to ride a quad would be to establish a team before hand, sit on the lead group for a predetermined distance, such as 100 miles and then go into dedicated routine among members.As members tire, or remain strong, re-discuss goals and adjust routine for best outcomes.......

I know you and I can't seem to agree on which direction the sun rises (east ;)), but I agree completely with you on this strategy. The result is what I did in '05 without even planning it. I was with the leaders until the first checkpoint and then with the Guths and some other folks in the second group for the remainder of the big loop. I rode solo for the first day loop and then caught up to a team from Chicago (Velo Club Roubaix) who had five guys working together out there. I fell in with them and stayed with them for the remainder of the race. We got killed by too much off the bike time (more than 4 hours! :eek:) but some combination of us were rolling in the high-teens/low-20s all night long. I got 394, one guy got 379 and everyone else was above 340. And this was for a bunch of long-distance rookies.

The Bachetta Killer Bs worked this strategy to perfection this year at Calvin's, putting two guys into the record books with 264 miles and all of their team but one guy breaking the old 'bent record of 235 miles. It was awesome watching them race. Of course, they're strong as hell and had a huge crew to service them.

I've since tried to re-create that '05 Michigan dynamic but have never been able to keep a group that big together for that long. I'll try again this year. The problem with me and 24-hour drafting races is letting the big boys go up the road. I can sit at the adults' table for 12 hours, but I'm not at the point in my riding where I can hang with guys who are going to break 450 miles in 24 hours. So I need to stop trying. Kiddie table for me on Saturday!

Octo guy has done many quads, just not in 24 hours (I got 394 miles at the '05 24-hour, Whew, new-fangled definitions of quad-centuries...........

If you've already ridden 394, you ought to know is that all you have to do is stay on the bike. 23 hours of 18mph gets you 414, if you have anything left, go do 425 and claim to be RAAM ready.......

A couple of things, if you can borrow 2 or 3 Camelbacks and pre-fill them - do so. Bring at least 5000 cals of comfort foods you don't think you'll eat. Like BBQ chicken, Hamburgers, Burritos, even if you don't eat them, you can trade them to other peoples' crews in return for support and possible "pulls."

Forget about the leaders, just sit on anything going over 18 mph and then ride at 18mph whenever there isn't anything to draft. Go for ride time only, you have no reason to compete in any other way without dedicated support. You'll just hurt yourself early on and make the ride seem harder than it needs to be.

If you ride more than 23 hours out of 24, you'll be successful, relative to 95% percent of the competition, so forget early speed. Having ridden 7 quad centuries, in less than 24hours, I speak from experience.

Whew, new-fangled definitions of quad-centuries...........

Whatever are you talking about?

You're clearly a stronger, more experienced long-distance rider and racer than me. I cannot ride 18mph for 23 hours straight, even while drafting. Not very many others can, either. In a good weather year, my pathetic 394 miles was good enough for 18th place out of 400-ish starters. You sir, are a god.

To those who are actually racing this weekend, good luck! and have a safe ride.

Whatever are you talking about?

You're clearly a stronger, more experienced long-distance rider and racer than me. I cannot ride 18mph for 23 hours straight, even while drafting. Not very many others can, either. In a good weather year, my pathetic 394 miles was good enough for 18th place out of 400-ish starters. You sir, are a god.

To those who are actually racing this weekend, good luck! and have a safe ride.

lol. Ole Richard Cranium is, well, a dickhead to be sure..or is that Dianne Cox? Either way, good luck Octopus and everyone else racing this year

You're clearly a stronger, more experienced long-distance rider and racer than me. I cannot ride 18mph for 23 hours straight, even while drafting.Your supposed to use timely support stops and rests periods of 4 to 6 minutes. I misunderstood your ability, you previously made comments that led me to believe you were more accomplished.

Sorry, I was trying to give the best advice I could. Achieving 400 miles of riding in 24 hours takes a good deal of luck as well as significant training, but hardly requires "god like" athletic ability. Since I'm not aware of the specific nature of the Mich 24 route and weather, I'll just shut up. I rode 365 miles at my first 24 hour event, and that was "accidentally." I just kept riding...........

...all you have to do is stay on the bike. 23 hours of 18mph gets you 414, if you have anything left, go do 425 and claim to be RAAM ready.......

Forget about the leaders, just sit on anything going over 18 mph and then ride at 18mph whenever there isn't anything to draft. Go for ride time only, you have no reason to compete in any other way without dedicated support. You'll just hurt yourself early on and make the ride seem harder than it needs to be.

If you ride more than 23 hours out of 24, you'll be successful, relative to 95% percent of the competition, so forget early speed.

I think this makes a lot of sense, actually. Averaging 18 mph solo after 20 hours of riding does sound hard, but look at it this way. If you average 17 mph for 23 hours, that's 391. If you get a nice draft during the first loop without pushing too hard, that could easily give you the extra 9 miles to reach 400. For example, say you suck a lot of wheel for the first 100 miles and average 20 mph. Take that 5 hours and add an hour of off-bike time. That leaves 18 hours to ride 300 miles, a 16.7 mph average for the rest of the ride. A 400 mile goal seems more reachable from that perspective. But then again, a lot of things are easier said than done.

I think Mr. Cranium is correct in that luck is going to come into play. The bigger the group, the better the draft and the more "free" miles you can get. But you need a little luck in that the group is going fast, but not too fast to push you too close to LT. This is my first time, so I'm not sure just how crazy people get during the first loop. I had a situation in a brevet once where the lead group was going just a little bit too fast for me but the next group was going a little bit slower than my comfortable solo pace. I'm hoping that doesn't happen Saturday.

This is my first time, so I'm not sure just how crazy people get during the first loop. I had a situation in a brevet once where the lead group was going just a little bit too fast for me but the next group was going a little bit slower than my comfortable solo pace. I'm hoping that doesn't happen Saturday.

In '05 the lead pack was moving in the low-30s at times and got to the first checkpoint averaging nearly 24mph. It was slower in '06 -- there was some, but not much, respect for the heat. The average to the first checkpoint then was only about 23mph, and that was the average for the completion of the 127-mile loop. It's brutal-fast. Learn from my mistakes and don't get sucked into something that you're not up for!

Cranium, my attempt sarcasm didn't come off, obviously. I'll let you judge my accomplishments. Me? I just like to ride a bike for fun. And I like to try to be helpful to folks when I can. Those are the only two accomplishments here that I care about.

All the best to all of you who are participating in this event ... it's one of the ones on my "one day" list. As usual ... too many rides, too little time.

But you need a little luck in that the group is going fast, but not too fast to push you too close to LT.Exactly, I've had the opportunity to ride 24 hours events in pack and solo competitions. And truth be told, but no one will believe me, you don't need a "big cushion" to make a 400 miler seem easy.

If you ride even one 5:00 century, you've set up a very nice cruising window. (sub 16 mph needed)
The main thing is to keep your "head straight" and not to panic. The bigger issues are often related to the temp changes after sunset and keeping fluid and fuel levels on an even keel.

You want the mindset of the big cushion, but the self control, to know when to start using it, otherwise the big "hurt" starts early.

What a great time I had. I was #304 and completed 443 miles. With only 10 more minutes I could have completed another lap and tied for 3rd overall with 450 miles. Oh well, there's always next year ;-)

I stuck with the leaders (including the guy who finished #1) until the 2nd 2nd loop when I got dropped while taking a piss. I guess I have to learn to pee on the move! I just stayed on my bike only stopping for bathroom breaks, getting food/drink passed off, and mounting lights for the night.

Lots of fun. There were only two times that weren't For about 30 minutes late afternoon when I felt the heat pressing in, and about 6am where I wanted to be done but couldn't quite see the end in sight yet.

-Joel

Congrats, that's a great ride. So with the potty breaks and light-installation, how long were you off the bike? Did you ride over 23 hours? What was 100 mile time? 200 mile time?

Where and when did you start hurting? What is the most vivid memory of the ride? Did you have any "close-calls?"

Thanks.

My total pedaling time was about 22:56, but not including the time left at the end (partial laps didn't count) my stopped time was about 53 minutes.

This is one thing I think I could improve. I didn't realize how much the little stops to switch water/food, chat for a second to my crew, and hit the porta jon would add up. I think I could have taken 20 minutes off the downtime had I been more conscious of the time I was burning.

100 miles: 4:47:10
200 miles: 9:38:56
300 miles: 15:21:10
400 miles: 21:16:20

The only real point I was hurting a little was stopping to take a piss about 60mi into the ride and then needing to catch back up to the group. Other than that, I never pushed myself far enough into the red to hurt. I was too concerned with finishing to want to push it too much. Well I guess my butt hurt and until I switched socks mid afternoon, my feet hurt too.

I did suffer from the heat a bit during the late afternoon. I wasn't hungry or thirsty which was a bad sign. But I recovered from that within an hour or so and after that did fine.

The closest call was around 3am where myself and 6 others were approaching a 4 way stop intersection staffed by a sheriff standing in the middle with lights. A car just blew right through the intersection at what must have been 50mph or so. The sheriff could have been easily hit, never mind some of the cyclists.

Pedaling through the sunrise knowing I'd soon be done was an incredible experience.

-Joel
-Joel

The Bachetta Killer Bs worked this strategy to perfection this year at Calvin's, putting two guys into the record books with 264 miles and all of their team but one guy breaking the old 'bent record of 235 miles. It was awesome watching them race. Of course, they're strong as hell and had a huge crew to service them.

I've since tried to re-create that '05 Michigan dynamic but have never been able to keep a group that big together for that long. I'll try again this year. The problem with me and 24-hour drafting races is letting the big boys go up the road. I can sit at the adults' table for 12 hours, but I'm not at the point in my riding where I can hang with guys who are going to break 450 miles in 24 hours. So I need to stop trying. Kiddie table for me on Saturday!

You need to get on a Bacchetta and hang with those guys you'll break 400 then. :) I guess Larry and another guy were out there without drafting this year. Haven't seen the complete write up yet.

100 miles: 4:47:10
200 miles: 9:38:56
300 miles: 15:21:10
400 miles: 21:16:20
100 miles: 4:47:10 Good pace not too fast, just right.
200 miles: 9:38:56 Great 2nd 100 just right
300 miles: 15:21:10 What's up with this? No use riding the 2nd 100 on fire, if you go to 5:42, should-a-been 5:30-ish

400 miles: 21:16:20, excellent, most of time people fall apart after too many miles in the dark.......

Just wondering about how "bad" late afternoon/ evening weather got, 5:42, on the 200-300 is out of place.

Great job, I'm not sarcastically waiting to hear from Octo guy, I looked up last winter's posts, he's supposed to come to Saint Louie to time trial a double with me...........I'll feel better if I know I can hang on.......

I haven't worked hard since Calvin's in 2003, turning a 9:15 double on THAT course, is a piece of work....

300 miles: 15:21:10 What's up with this? No use riding the 2nd 100 on fire, if you go to 5:42, should-a-been 5:30-ish

400 miles: 21:16:20, excellent, most of time people fall apart after too many miles in the dark.......

Just wondering about how "bad" late afternoon/ evening weather got, 5:42, on the 200-300 is out of place.


200-300 was roughly 1.2mph slower than 100-200. A couple of things occurred during this period the most significant was the switch from pace lines to solo riding. Also about half of my downtime occurred during this period as I took some longer stops including installing my head lights.

I never really was "on fire" at any point during the race. I never went faster than what was comfortable (except for the one nature break on loop 1 which required me to catch the group) as I was pretty careful keeping my slow and steady pace. So any average speed changes were largely a result of external factors (drafting, stopped time, etc...).

You're right that the pace from that point on stayed pretty even which I'm pretty happy about. I could have covered a lot more ground if I'd kept going longer than 24. :)

-Joel

Hi Joel,

Congratulations on your ride. I remember riding with you in the wee hours of the morning for a lap (more of less). I was in the Hammer Nutrition jersey. You were riding really good.