Touring - Ortlieb really worth doing?

Ok, so I'm planning on taking a few weeks this summer to do a tour across the PNW. I work at a bike shop right now and it's been a great way for me to get all my gear ready. So I have a 520 w/ a Brooks B17, Pitbull locking skewers, SKS Chromoplastic mudguards and decent lights. The original plan was to just get what I need and take off, but after working in this shop, between the discount and my coworkers I keep finding myself spending way too much on everything. Is it really necessary to buy the Sidi Dragon 2? Probably not but I choked down and spent the $200. :rolleyes: So I'm at the point where I've got a lot of money sinked into this bike and now I need to focus on camping gear (tent, stove), plane ticket, and other expenses of traveling. We use Quality as our distributor and they carry panniers from Topeak, Axiom and Jandd. I was looking at buying a nice set of Topeaks and perhaps getting a pair of Surly Nice Racks but one of my coworkers really insists that I get Ortlieb waterproof panniers. I really don't mind using a rain cover and I like the bright yellow as it is good for visibility. So should I just go with the best Jandd/Topeak stuff or just spend a couple hundred more and get the Ortlieb? Do any of you own panniers from any of these companies that you can attest to?

-- Also, I bought an Adventure Cycling membership and right now I'm comparing doing either the Lewis & Clark trail or half of the Northern Tier (from Chicago to Seattle). Which would be the better way to go?

I have Ortlieb Back Roller Classic (bright yellow too) and their front Sport Packer Plus (red, not avail in yellow).

I love the Back Roller and would buy again - waterproof and very secure on the bike. But you do need to be dismounted and use two hands to close it properly (I don't have a bar bag so it's a contortionist act to get the camera out from the saddle.)

Less happy with the Sport Packer as there are the two inner drawstring closures plus the outer top to secure. The drawstrings will drag if not well tucked in. The outer buckles interfere with the outer pocket unless the pannier is full. If less than full and you want to scrunch it down the buckles are located behind the pocket. It sort of works if you re-routes them out the sides of the pocket. Try it in the shop if you're considering these. Another downside is the paddle thingy on the back that hooks behind a pannier stay - it's too eleastic and the pannier sort of flops about on poor surfaces. Also the belt webbing that operates the clamping to the top rail mechanism tend to fall back into the spokes - I have to tuck it down behind the rail.

In short, I put things in the back pannier that i need during the day and make sure the fronts are stuffed full of items I shouldn't need. And if I can flog off the Sport Packers I'll replace them with Rollers.

I hate rain covers...

I use them on my panniers in and around the city, but they never work 100%.
You don't necessarily need Ortlieb's, but look into a waterproof pannier for sure.
As long as they're well made, you'll have them for years.

what about something like this?

http://www.topeak.com/2007/products/bags/drybag.php

Are Ortliebs really that expensive? I've got bike packer plus rears and sport packer plus fronts and I paid about $300 (pre-tax) total for them using 20% discounts at REI. If you can't get them for a better discount through your shop, I'd be disappointed in your shop's discounts.

I'm really happy with these panniers so far. I rode through hub-deep water on my commute home one rainy night and everything stayed dry. Would rain covers be as effective in that situation? I haven't experienced the same frustrations as the previous poster. I've noticed those same issues, but they're not deal-breakers for me.

And everyone complains about not having inner pockets to organize stuff. I'd rather have one big pannier which is lighter and provides more options for different packing methods. If I need to organize things, I use ziplock freezer bags.

Get some yellow Ortliebs and leave the rain covers at home! :)

I have ortlieb-like bags, from Chapak (French). they have a roller closure but then a flap that clips over the roll. I guess the lid is almost redundant, but it does have a zip pocket inside it. And it's a good backstop when I'm carrying something too tall to roll the main opening down. These also have a snap-on pocket inside that I can pull out to divide the pannier into top and bottom halves if I pay attention. I don't have any problem w/ the function, that's for sure.

I've also been commuting w/ ortlieb's office bag, or whatever they call it, and I love it. I kind of wish it had a Chapak-style flap over the roll-top so I didn't need to roll it every time, since it's only rained like twice since I got it. But the function is great. If their roller panniers are the same material as this, I would definitely want to get them when the Chapak's cr*p out on me (as far as I know I've used up all the spare mounting parts in the US).

Any way, not sure how to answer your question, but another thing to keep in mind, in shoppng for monsoon-proof panniers, is that the PNW is dry dry dry from mid-July (probably earlier east of the Cascades) to October (probably later east of the Cascades), w/ some exceptions on the coast.

And the ortlieb mounting system is just the very best I've seen, at least if you are in the habit of mounting/removing your panniers a lot, which I am.

what about something like this?

http://www.topeak.com/2007/products/bags/drybag.php

A quick glance around the web shows that the Topeaks are just about the same price as an Ortlieb Classic front roller and only slightly less than an Ortlieb rear. They use similar attachment, although the Topeak doesn't appear to have the strap release of the Ortlieb which is handy but not necessary. Wayne at The Touring Store (http://www.thetouringstore.com/ORTLIEB/Ort%20MATCHED%20SETS/MATCHED%20SETS%20PAGE.htm) will sell you a matched set of rollers for $234 which is a pretty good price.

You can get away with cheaper bags. They will last a long time but I've found the Orts to be much more stable and much easier to put on and take off the bike then just about anything. And they stay put even on very rough roads.

If you go with a less water proof bag (and even something like the Rollers) organize your clothing and toiletries in zip lock bags. It saves lots of digging and makes life in the dark a whole lot easier. I put one days riding clothes in each bag (jersey, shorts, socks) and my street/camp clothes are also organized that way. Then I don't have to rummage around trying to find the items that settle to the bottom of the bag. If you don't have water proof bags, it keeps your stuff dry too.

You can get away with cheaper bags. They will last a long time but I've found the Orts to be much more stable and much easier to put on and take off the bike then just about anything. And they stay put even on very rough roads.

The cheapest bike stuff always lasts too long for me to use the 'I'll replace it when it breaks' excuse. That's a reason to go for the Ortliebs up front.

You won't need dry bags for your tour around Seattle this summer. If you don't know which way to go, spring for 1 set of Orbliebs and get 1 set of cheaper panniers. See which you like on tour, and if you want to replace the cheapies, then sell them and buy Ortliebs then, or vice versa. FWIW, a set of Jandd panniers with rain covers will set you back more than a set of Ortliebs--I can't believe how expensive their rain covers are!

The cheapest bike stuff always lasts too long for me to use the 'I'll replace it when it breaks' excuse. That's a reason to go for the Ortliebs up front.

I fully agree. I bought cheap bags back in the late 70s and kept the worthless things until 2003. Nothing quite as fun as watching a bag race you down the road when it's popped off;)

A quick glance around the web shows that the Topeaks are just about the same price as an Ortlieb Classic front roller and only slightly less than an Ortlieb rear. They use similar attachment, although the Topeak doesn't appear to have the strap release of the Ortlieb which is handy but not necessary. Wayne at The Touring Store (http://www.thetouringstore.com/ORTLIEB/Ort%20MATCHED%20SETS/MATCHED%20SETS%20PAGE.htm) will sell you a matched set of rollers for $234 which is a pretty good price.



Yeah, but I guess the point is, I can get employee discounts on Topeak stuff but unfortunately not Ortlieb. One of the guys in my store wants to sign up with Ortlieb and if we did that, then there'd be no question. But I'm not sure if that's going to happen or not.. So to save some dough I think I ought to stick with EP if I can

There are certain things I've learned not to skimp on when it comes to cycling. And I'm a notorious skimper (word choice: patent pending). Panniers, saddles, bike shorts. Others have their categories as well.

After reading here and elsewhere, I knew that Wayne at the Touring Store had earned my business. Read his web site, give him a call, and let him guide you to what you need. In my case, I got the Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus rear panniers, and medium dry bag. For a handlebar bag, I likewise bought "best in category" and have Arkel's big handlebar bag.
http://www.thetouringstore.com

I'm using these bags for commuting, for family rides and for day trips and even long club rides (the bar bag is heavy and is my handicap when I really want to sweat out a pace ride on the 520).

I bought my teenaged son the el cheapo house brand Performance panniers and have watched them bounce off his bike several times before using duct tape to hold them hostage.

Good luck with your research and purchases. Planning is part of the fun!

Ken

yep, nothing like having a cheap pannier pop off the rack, fall into your wheel, and rip open, spilling the contents into a ditch on a heinous gravel downhill to make you think twice about your choice of cheap pannier. (1987)

Ortliebs have a huge reflective triangle fore and aft, so that head-on and from-behind you are visible. Very visible. I appreciate them most when I am am the one driving and others are biking. They are VERY reflective. No need for yellow rain covers for visibility, and as other have already said, they don't always work.

I have the Bike Packer Plus (the ones with the hood), and, love them. From kayaking, the roll-top is annoying. You don't have as much room as you think because you have to leave some space at the top available for rolling. If you overstuff and can't/don't roll them a turn or two, water can get in. In addition to using panniers for touring, I use them for commuting. I carry books, extra clothes, food (including canned nectarines, in glass and lots of liquid, cottage cheese, melons, etc) and I see no signs of stress on the fabric or supports.

For more visibility, I put blinkies on the mesh-pocket side of the panniers, and the straps at the top, so that I am visible left and right as well for and aft.

I wouldn't guarantee anyone that it won't rain in the PNW in the summer. There's at least one week each summer when it rains, and if you buy cheap and/or non-waterproof panniers, the rain will come when you are here. ;)

I am always one for spending the extra money on items that will pay for themselves in the long run. When I was looking around for some panniers, most people said that they use their panniers for years. That alone is worth spending more money on an item to get the best of that time rather than get cheaper / less desirable products. Mainly because there must be something right about a product which people continually advise you to get but also because you would be getting a much better quality product in the first place. To quote... someone, as many people have, "you get what you pay for".

If in the future you do decide to upgrade and want to sell your old stuff then the Ortlieb will hold their value for longer as well as be more desirable to people wanting to buy panniers.

That being said I went for Arkel GT-54 with a rain cover, it has an internal waterproof seal as well as being able to use the cover, enabling you to chose between waterproof and non (being able to seperate wet from dry in the bag), appealing to me more due to various arguments that a truely waterproof bag can sometimes be a hassle e.g. what goes in doesn't come out. More expensive, but given what I have just said I feel it is worth it.

Anyway, hope that helps.
Ryan

p.s. I would go for the Ortliebs.

I don't think any of the products I'm refering to are cheap. I'm not going to tour with the Trek interchange rack that came with the bike. It's not like I'm trying to skimp out on panniers, but my question is if this particular brand is really THAT much better. I'm still going to get nice stuff, and I appreciate the feedback about ortlieb. But I'm not going to buy a cheap rack and watch it destroy this 520 I just built up.. no way!

... but my question is if this particular brand is really THAT much better....


Your answer = yes. Check out the millions of around the world bike touring pics on the web. The majority of riders will be using Ortliebs. These products have been expedition proven time and time again.

my lbs got me a set of jandd mountain expeditions w/raincovers for $235. i prefer pockets,and various compartments on panniers.they mount on my surly nice racks-extremely happy with the set up.i did use arkel mounting hardware ($44)-it's a better system

my lbs got me a set of jandd mountain expeditions w/raincovers for $235. i prefer pockets,and various compartments on panniers.they mount on my surly nice racks-extremely happy with the set up.i did use arkel mounting hardware ($44)-it's a better system

Aren't Ortliebs (Bike Packer Plus) ~$200? (pretty sure they are).

OP--we truly respect the fact that it's a lot of money. However, speaking for myself, we want to convince you that it's money spent on a very important necessity.

If you're worried about the cash, sell them for $50-$75 under what you paid for them, and you'll sell them fast, and have "rented" them for cheap and get cash-back in the end. (A few weeks I assume is about 5 weeks, at $5/wk, that's cheap.) I'm sure someone would love to pick up a used pair of Ortliebs for $125-$150.

Your answer = yes. Check out the millions of around the world bike touring pics on the web. The majority of riders will be using Ortliebs. These products have been expedition proven time and time again.

You might even find a couple of pairs of Ortliebs shown HERE (http://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/fullyloaded)

What are the best panniers in the world? That's an individual choice.


Tailwinds,

i happen to know the guy's at ortlieb usa. great bunch of guy's, i worked with one at bike shop for awhile. they always take care of you. i have the back roller classics and several other bags they make. i love their stuff. it lasts forever. i've had my panniers for 6 years and have only had to patch a small hole due to an accident. i've ridden from everett, washington to washington d.c. 2 years in row and am planning on it agian this year. wouldn't leave home without them.

I have nothing against Ortlieb stuff--- it's really good. I'm a roller classic guy myself

But so is Jannd-- get the racks, panniers, rain covers, handlebar bag--- it's all quality stuff and you have a big discount. You save a bunch of money-- enough to buy a good 2 lb sleeping bag and pad.

If you didn't have a discount, a say Ortlieb would be a slightly better choice-- but with a 40% or so discount? Jannd is what I'd get. They'll last for years.

As a final thought, I've toured in some really wet weather and I'm not sure waterproof bags are really all that helpful. Your clothes and tent get wet, so what good does stuffing them in a dry bag all moist do? I store everything in waterproof freezer bags, even with the Roller Classics. And the Jannd bags with rain covers are pretty waterproof and if the sun comes out, you can take the rain covers off and air them out a bit.

Try a 50% discount. That's why I'm being so fickle. I think the Surly nice racks are totally over priced, but half off? Why not? I just spent sometime searching the forums and actually most people recommend NON waterproof bags for various reasons. I know everyone's got their idea of what suits them best and I'm still not totally sold on the waterproof stuff.

Now I'm looking at
http://www.axiomgear.com/product/bags/pannier_bags/product.php?id=61

http://www.axiomgear.com/product/bags/pannier_bags/product.php?id=115

http://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FMP

http://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FHHP

Ok, so those are some choices. And, PLEASE stop talking about Ortlieb! I'm not going to get them. Maybe I might do waterproof in the rear and classic in the front? Maybe half and half so that way if I need something to breathe I can throw it (wet clothes, etc) in the front so it can air out. Hows that sound?

I just read your original post, and you specifically asked for feedback on various pannier companies, including Ortlieb.

In this forum, as elsewhere in life -- be careful what you wish for!
Cheers,
Ken

PS - TheTouringStore.com still has the Bike Packer Plus set for $177 with free shipping! <grin>

Ok, so I'm planning on taking a few weeks this summer to do a tour across the PNW. I work at a bike shop right now and it's been a great way for me to get all my gear ready. So I have a 520 w/ a Brooks B17, Pitbull locking skewers, SKS Chromoplastic mudguards and decent lights. The original plan was to just get what I need and take off, but after working in this shop, between the discount and my coworkers I keep finding myself spending way too much on everything. Is it really necessary to buy the Sidi Dragon 2? Probably not but I choked down and spent the $200. :rolleyes: So I'm at the point where I've got a lot of money sinked into this bike and now I need to focus on camping gear (tent, stove), plane ticket, and other expenses of traveling. We use Quality as our distributor and they carry panniers from Topeak, Axiom and Jandd. I was looking at buying a nice set of Topeaks and perhaps getting a pair of Surly Nice Racks but one of my coworkers really insists that I get Ortlieb waterproof panniers. I really don't mind using a rain cover and I like the bright yellow as it is good for visibility. So should I just go with the best Jandd/Topeak stuff or just spend a couple hundred more and get the Ortlieb? Do any of you own panniers from any of these companies that you can attest to?

-- Also, I bought an Adventure Cycling membership and right now I'm comparing doing either the Lewis & Clark trail or half of the Northern Tier (from Chicago to Seattle). Which would be the better way to go?

I bought a new set of Ortlieb Plus panniers to ride the ACA Southern Tier which I complete on 5/3/07. These panniers are everything that they are advertised to be. The new Q2 mounting system is flawless. The panniers are very secure. There's no way for them to dismount if they are attached properly. They mount and dismount without fuss. Note, they are a single pouch...no external pockets (no zippers either).
The inside is very black, not easy to see into. If what you want is at the bottom, guess what? I would expect these pannier to last many years.

Now, I have decided to sell them. I also have Nitto/Rivendell front and rear racks that I will sell. I own a B.O.B. trailer. I prefer to use it on future tours.

Now I'm looking at
http://www.axiomgear.com/product/bags/pannier_bags/product.php?id=61

http://www.axiomgear.com/product/bags/pannier_bags/product.php?id=115


If you're going to cheap out, you might as well get them cheap. :D
http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=model&Category=3&Brand=24&type=T

I like Jandd equipment and have a set of the racks and bags - Mtn front/Lg Mtn rear. The Expedition rear bags are just too large and heavy imho. They are very well made (in the US), bomber quality and look great. They cinch tight onto the rack and also have compression straps to tie the load down. It can take a bit of work to take them on and off, but they are secure once on. You can't go wrong with them.

I'd agree with mtnroads-- Jandd is quality stuff. I think that the Jandd bags are better made and longer lasting than the PCV coated Ortlieb ones-- although both bags are really high quality stuff.