Some things are a given; the same way I don't tell people I'm typing this post using a computer. :D

"Boilerplate" doesn't mean quite what you seem to think it means. But I do thank you for taking the time to reply. And whether your colleague wants to admit it or not, there is something a bit snobby, not to mention arrogant, about presuming to speak for "true roadies" in broadly dismissing a large and diverse group of bicycle riders.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

I also enjoy the forums because I get to be enlightened by ovoleg.

1955 -


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b359/j0sex/umad.gif

who are the ridazz
it sounds scary, I dont like gangs...

I also enjoy the forums because I get to be enlightened by ovoleg.

+1 :D

I also hang around in the SoCal forum because I think it is fun. I enjoy the rides we've done together and also gives me more motivations to ride and become faster as well; so that one day I can catch you guys & gals. Hehe. :D


Placid Casual, you may want to join a few SoCal rides and get to meet a few people here. I think you are sometimes taking words/phrases out of context and make things unnecessarily unhappy for yourself. I don't think ME's "snobby roadies" comment is an attempt to cast everyone else out as non-true-roadies. You should really just take it as "she thinks you're biased and thinks the BF SoCal group as snobby cyclists". As for the major issue that you seem to be having; why is there so much rejection from you if ME thinks it's dangerous FOR HER to ride with a group where a minority few may be drinking, and so won't join those rides? She's entitled to her own opinions and action, just as you wouldn't like others to enforce you to wear a helmet or not.

To me, I can probably justify your reactions if, for example, we don't ride with people that has poor color coordinations b/w bike/jersey/shorts/etc... But I don't think we're like that. :p

Cheers!

+100000 :D

i just like to ride my bike and have fun. sometimes that does involve a beer or some w33d

jam Bands

I enjoy bike forums because I like to poke people with sticks, metaphorically.

And I am constantly enlightened by ovoleg.

Placid Casual, you may want to join a few SoCal rides and get to meet a few people here. I think you are sometimes taking words/phrases out of context and make things unnecessarily unhappy for yourself.

Oh, you have no idea how bad it is, Dave. I spent the entire afternoon in tears.

(Where "in tears" is defined as "in my living room, eating peanut butter sandwiches on cinnamon bread and watching Police Squad! again on DVD.")

I don't think ME's "snobby roadies" comment is an attempt to cast everyone else out as non-true-roadies. You should really just take it as "she thinks you're biased and thinks the BF SoCal group as snobby cyclists".

The "true roadies" thing was a reference to ME's earlier blanket statement that (and I quote) "MR doesn't carry a great reputation among true roadies."

As for the major issue that you seem to be having; why is there so much rejection from you if ME thinks it's dangerous FOR HER to ride with a group where a minority few may be drinking, and so won't join those rides?

I must have typed that "rejection" in invisible Internet ink, because upon rereading the discussion I am unable to find any rejection from me of anybody who chooses not to ride with drinkers. Are you sure you're not confusing me with somebody else?

The reason I keep referring back to ME is because she seems to be genuinely puzzled as to why anybody would think her snobby. "True roadies"? Please; that's snobby. And presumptuous, and a bit out of touch with the situation on the ground: many of the people who participate in MR events are bike commuters and couriers who arguably spend more time in the saddle than a lot of OCP types. And need I mention the actual spandexed, kitted roadies and categorized racers who show up to these rides?

Anyway, please don't worry about my happiness. I find a lot of this stuff pretty comical. Like the gentleman who suggested that the unconventional spelling of "Ridazz" is a jab at the establishment. The funniest part is that I can't tell whether he's kidding. Internet FTW!

The "true roadies" thing was a reference to ME's earlier blanket statement that (and I quote) "MR doesn't carry a great reputation among true roadies."

I must have typed that "rejection" in invisible Internet ink, because upon rereading the discussion I am unable to find any rejection from me of anybody who chooses not to ride with drinkers. Are you sure you're not confusing me with somebody else?

The reason I keep referring back to ME is because she seems to be genuinely puzzled as to why anybody would think her snobby. "True roadies"? Please; that's snobby. And presumptuous, and a bit out of touch with the situation on the ground: many of the people who participate in MR events are bike commuters and couriers who arguably spend more time in the saddle than a lot of OCP types. And need I mention the actual spandexed, kitted roadies and categorized racers who show up to these rides?

Anyway, please don't worry about my happiness. I find a lot of this stuff pretty comical. Like the gentleman who suggested that the unconventional spelling of "Ridazz" is a jab at the establishment. The funniest part is that I can't tell whether he's kidding. Internet FTW!

Well, that was me (as in myself and not "ME"), and I'll save you the trouble of trying to determine any longer whether or not I was kidding, and let you know that I was. I'm not worried about your happiness; I don't really care. I don't have anything against midnight ridazz, they don't really affect me or my happiness. I don't have any plans to join one of the rides because its not really "my thing". A little snobby, maybe--I don't know; I don't really think I'm "better than that", just that its not really how I want to spend my time. Now, if ME said "true roadies" before, that's an unfortunate use of phrase but I think her main point that she has been trying to get across all this time is that she won't be attending MR because she believes she would be uncomfortable around behaviors and actions that she feels are unsafe, as described in the linked article. I think its comical that so much energy has been trying to convince her that she is wrong. Who cares! Why does it matter if she doesn't want to ride with MR? If it really is as wonderful as you guys are saying then its her loss.

The facts at the hear of the matter don't seem to be in contention; that SOME people at MR events drink while riding (which includes while stopped in between riding), and that SOME people ride without helmets. Now, talking about blanket statements, the other "side" in this discussion has been just as guilty if painting all of "us" with the same brush as some of us have to "you". There are lots of subcultures in cycling and as with anything there will always be friction where they come in contact.

Note that I am a "spandexed, kitted roadie and categorized racer", and have not been to a "Midnight Ridazz" event specifically, but have attended some events by or associated with the "Matadors" in Santa Barbara. I am not a bike messenger or professional racer, but I would not consider myself "OCP" as that implies a certain amount of fakeness, or interest in form over function. I ride to ride, I enjoy the purity of it and the adrenaline rush of competition. I also commute, spending more time on the bike than anyone I know, and the spandex is form following function for me, although I will admit that the club "kit" is a nod to asthetics and has no pure functional role.

My final comment on all of this MR business: http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=4630752&postcount=180

My final comment on your final comment
(Unless there is a final final comment on my final comment of your final comment. In that case i may make a final final final comment.) ;-)

It's shocking to me really, that as insignificant as I am,
We are all significant.
here on a public forum (that some would consider geeky)
We are all geeks.

My opinion about my comfort level and unwillingness to ride based on that has incited such a reaction.
It was the implication/ suggestion that the entire affair is dangerous/ more dangerous than just riding a bike, an unsupported misnomer that many people felt the need to correct.

Nor did I think myself so popular.
You are.

As if, my not joining means no one from this community or the world will now join them now – gosh, how ever will they ride?
I think more posts were aimed at taking exception to your assertions; for the public record. Not trying to convince you that you should become a different person.

But my opinion remains the same.
and in fact, has only gotten stronger based on the continued visits by those advocates of Midnight Ridazz who are posting over and over on here (as well as trying to make "my opinion" look like a fight between communities over on their website
Judging thousands of people by the actions of a few seems to be the point of many of the critiques of your comments.

that I joined yesterday by the way. Yup, got me a handle and everything).
Yey! You joined Midnight Ridazz! Now you are one of us.

I now won't ride with the Midnight Ridazz for an entirely different reason: The four or five guys who have been coming over here to this forum, posting with demands that I change a mere opinion (my opinion - and I'd love to see what they would do if someone demanded that they change their opinions) seem like outright bullies. No one have I met on the BF forums or out on the roads on long distance rides* have demanded repeatedly that I see it their way or I'm wrong, presumptuous and condescending - i.e. "against them" - and thus have chased after me trying to force me to change my views. Now, I can honestly say, I'm past uncomfortable and am down right queasy. The last thing I'd do is consider riding with these individuals and any group they are affiliated with.

you may already be riding with these individuals, or people who think like them and not know it.
regardless, it is unlikely that you would have much personal interaction with any of them in a ride of over 1,000 people.

So, I’m hoping members in this community on this forum will now just ignore them.
as they are not going to quit.
We are now members of your community.

They appear to have nothing better to do and I’m sure they are going to rip this post a new one and start all over again. If all of us just ignore the “bullies” (and let it be noted, I do NOT think the Midnight Ridazz are bullies, but that community may not want the guys who have been on here representing them since those guys are doing a very bad job of it), maybe they will get bored and finally go away. This is my final post on this matter. I will not respond any further myself.

I don't consider this response "ripping a new one" rather engaging in a continuing dialog. With all due respect, it is a little bit bullyish to suggest that you should have the last word and that now you have said your piece everybody should ignore the thread.

To the Midnight Ridazz folks who are not the bullies, safe riding and happy trails!
If that applies to me. Thanks. If not, i'll do my darndest to to have safe and happy trails anyway.
I also wish safe and happy trails to all riders and ridazz a like. Ride on!

*"True roadies" are what I consider long distance, endurance riders, who regularly ride on the road, on slicks, in spandex - but by using that term, I was not making a derogatory comment about any other group. I also consider some riders to be "true mountainbikers" - I'm not one of them as I don't ride mountain bikes with knobbies on trails although I own a bike with knobbies.

To say "True roadies" implies that there are roadies that are less true than the true roadies. That (in the context of the original statement) roadies that hold MR in high regard are not "true roadies". That statement was taken by many, along with 1955s "whatever" comment to be to be an uppity dismissal of the group as a whole. Perhaps this was a misinterpretation of your intention due to the cold, unexpressive, nature of text. However, If looked at objectively I belive it is not difficult to see how so many people interpreted the comments the way they did.
.....

Midnight Ridazz is more than a person or a group of people (no person can speak for the group as a whole). Midnight Ridazz is an idea. It is a concept that is sweet and simple and necessary. That is why it is growing in size and reach.
Ride and have fun with a group of people who want to ride and have fun and be seen riding and having fun.
That concept, and the things that go along with having a large, free, open, public ride that is not strictly policed and controlled, do not appeal to some people. That's OK.

There are may thousands of people however, who love it and see it as ritual in fun and pleasure that can be a positive part of making cycling safer and more enjoyable through the popularization of cycling as a fun and exciting social activity.

Awe ... who am I kidding? They just come out because its fun.

Ride on.

ive never seen people drink and ride at the same time, either. its usually at the regroup spots where people will take the beer from their bags or cages and open them. maybe these riders that youve seen drinking and riding emptied kegs into their camelbacks?

come on... you've never seen anyone ride and drink at an MR event? You've got to stop riding off the front of these rides GG...

Also, leave merider and her opinions alone. We all do stupid stuff for different reasons. Yeah drinking and riding is illegal and dangerous, judging from my experience with LA's finest, so is riding anywhere but the gutter or the sidewalk alone at night. If she's uncomfortable with us that's her right (although I'm not crazy about the idea of being ratted out for enjoying a guinness during a break on a long ride... f*** gatorade)