Bicycle Mechanics - Stripped Threads On Back Deraileur Mount..

Hi, I have a Trek 6500 ZX Mountain Bike. The chain recently broke while I was out riding, so I took it in to a bike repair shop. They said the back part of the frame (where the rear deraiuler mounts) was bent. They said they could bend it back into shape, and the total charge for that and a new chain would be $40. I left it there for them to fix, and when I came back to get it, they said they bent it back into shape, but the threads where the back derailur mounts were stripped. I know for a fact that they were not stripped before I took it to the shop, but they claim otherwise. They did not charge me, but now I am just wondering if this is fixable or not. There are only 2 threads left where the back derailur mounts.

I have included a picture of the piece that is stripped.
Thanks

One simple solution to this is a T-nut, which some shops may have in their arsenel. The damaged hole is drilled clean and then a threaded T-nut comes in from the backside, very similar to the nut that makes up half of your chainring bolts.

Another option is a Helicoil, again an item that some shops may have on hand for these situations. I suggest trying a different shop and asking about these possibilities. Good luck, Trek6500ZX! :)

Hey, thanks for responding. Is there any online bike shops you know of that carry the T-Nut?? I have seen some auctions on ebay for Helicoils, but I don't know if I need a particular one, or if any will work.

Here you go (assuming you're in the US):

http://www.thethirdhand.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Misc&sc=Dropouts/Braze%20Ons&tc=Thread%20Repair&item_id=WB-DS2&id=13887320002

:)

Any GOOD quality auto parts store should have Heli coils available. NAPA, CarQuest, etc.

I wouldn't be too quick to jump to the conclusion about the shop damaging the threads. What age is the bike? How many times has the bike been subjected to water? Maybe the bolt was overtightened originally. Or maybe the bolt had loosened up and wore the threads prematurely. I have a hard time believing any relieable shop damaging the threads on purpose. My guess is that the didn't charge you because they felt bad. I learned a long time ago to charge the customer regardless because then they are less likely to quickly point a finger that we are trying to "hide" something. Remember the shop doesn't own the bike, didn't build, their just trying to fix it.

Well, I can't be sure that it was the shops fault, but I did take my deraileur off before taking the bike to the shop, and I did see that the threads were in good condition. When I got it back, they were wiped out.. Anyways, Should I get a T-Nut or a Helicoil?? What is going to be more reliable, i.e will they ever wear off or will they be a permanent fix?

If you feel confident in your knowledge that the threads were in good condition when you took it into the shop, then you need to pursue this with Trek until you get satisfaction. Request an opportunity to speak directly with the Sales Rep. the next time he visits this shop. If that cannot be arranged, contact Trek directly ASAP. You may find that Trek will support you but the shop won't because they won't get any compensation for what may be a days work for a mechanic to swap out frames. Trek may be able to "reason " with them where you may not. Keep all receipts. Document everything that is said and done. If you feel you have been wronged, there are other avenues to pursue satisfaction like the Better Business Bureau. The shop will not want a complaint on file with them. Shops are not above mistakes just because they are shops.

Short version:

it's conceivable that they pulled the threads out, yeah.

Long version:

If that's an aluminum frame, and the mechanic attempted to thread a conventional derailleur-hanger alignment tool (http://www.parktool.com/images/tools/DAG_1.jpg) into it to straighten it from a severe bend, then the tool itself could pull the threads out... that's a lot of leverage there. If I were the mechanic in question, I would start with a 15" adjustable wrench for gross realignment, while countering it with a dropout alignment tool (http://www.parktool.com/images/cat_index/FFG_1.jpg) in the dropout itself. Once it's as close as possible by eye, then I would evaluate whether it's safe to finish up with the derailleur-hanger alignment gauge.

Personally, I would probably recommend a T-nut since I suspect it might be less expensive than the Helicoil route and a little simpler, but I've repaired 'em both ways and lived to tell :)

Yeah, mechBgon, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was thinking it was the tool they used that stripped the threads, but they deny that they actually stripped it. Since I can't prove they actually did, other then from what I saw before and after I brought it in, I really have no case against them. I am thinking about getting the T-Nut, but I just feel I was kind of screwed over by the bike shop. I know they straightened the frame for free, but in the process they created a new problem. I feel like they should cover the charge of fixing this, whether they admint they did it or not. I am not a big mountain biker, but I was really having a good time riding this bike as it was the first good mountain bike i've had.

Originally posted by don d.
If you feel confident in your knowledge that the threads were in good condition when you took it into the shop, then you need to pursue this with Trek until you get satisfaction. Request an opportunity to speak directly with the Sales Rep. the next time he visits this shop. If that cannot be arranged, contact Trek directly ASAP. You may find that Trek will support you but the shop won't because they won't get any compensation for what may be a days work for a mechanic to swap out frames. Trek may be able to "reason " with them where you may not. Keep all receipts. Document everything that is said and done. If you feel you have been wronged, there are other avenues to pursue satisfaction like the Better Business Bureau. The shop will not want a complaint on file with them. Shops are not above mistakes just because they are shops. I want to point out that attempting to recover a severely-damaged hanger, particularly on an aluminum frame, is touch-&-go. When I was booking this type of stuff, I tried to explain to the customer that it's like performing heart surgery to try to save a patient's life... whether the surgery succeeds or fails, the hospital is going to charge for trying to save the life of the patient. And it's not necessarily the doctor's fault if the patient dies. Eh? ;)

Now, covering up is not right, of course. That's why they should've told Trek6500ZX up front that there is a risk involved, and given him a straight answer of "I'm sorry guy, we gave it a shot but it didn't work, and we're not charging."

Good-quality forged chromoly dropouts are hard to kill, incidentally :D I've brought 'em back from some nasty bends and I bet the other mechanics here have done the same.

Originally posted by Trek6500ZX
Yeah, mechBgon, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was thinking it was the tool they used that stripped the threads, but they deny that they actually stripped it. Since I can't prove they actually did, other then from what I saw before and after I brought it in, I really have no case against them. I am thinking about getting the T-Nut, but I just feel I was kind of screwed over by the bike shop. I know they straightened the frame for free, but in the process they created a new problem. I feel like they should cover the charge of fixing this, whether they admint they did it or not. I am not a big mountain biker, but I was really having a good time riding this bike as it was the first good mountain bike i've had. I hear you... I was so proud of my brand new blood-red Schwinn 684 road-racer and promptly took it over to the 1km criterium loop in Lincoln Park, pushed it into the downhill hairpin at upwards of 25mph and crashed it hard on the driveside :( It tore the derailleur right out of the hanger, taking the threads with it :cry:

There wasn't enough metal left to do anything with, so I chopped the useless hanger off and jury-rigged a separate derailleur hanger on there. It was hokey, but it got me by :(

(I still have the scars from that wreck, by the way... big ol' grind mark on my right hip)

I dont know if it was a very bad bend, I just brought it in to get them to put a new chain on, and they told me it was bent so they'd have to bend it back. They said they got it back into shape but they couldn't put it all back together because I brought it to them with stripped threads.

After 20 years in the industry, 1 spent in a framebuilding shop, a trip through Barnett's, and much more, I'm intimately familiar with the processes involved in the repair.

However, in this instance, if the customer feels that he has been wronged he has the right to demand that the product be restored to it's original condition. He may choose to accept an alternative solution, like Helicoils, through bolts, etc.. but he does not have to. He didn't say the dropout was "severly damaged". He said it was bent and that the threads were in "good condition" and that when he got it back they were "wiped out".

My intentions were not to question whether your methods would work or not, but to help him to consider his other options when he was being told "I have a hard time believing any reliable shop damaged the threads on purpose". It doesn't matter whether they did it on purpose or not. If he believes they are liable, he needs to understand his options.

Thanks Don d., I just don't know how to go about it. I don't want to go and just confront the store because I know they will deny it. What other options do I have??

Good points don d, I didn't realize you were a mechanic :)

From the fact that the shop proposed no solution, but instead handed an unusable bike back to their would-be customer without offering a way to solve the problem, I would avoid them in future just for not trying to help. It's not like Helicoils and T-nuts are arcane, unknown solutions or something, so they are either very ill-trained, or they just don't care, or they're trying to cover up a repair gone wrong instead of making it right.

If you're the confrontational type, you could call 'em on the carpet for it, I guess, but I don't see a whole lot to gain by it. If I still worked at a shop, I'd mail you a T-nut for free with my compliments, but I don't anymore :(

It's a good idea not to confront them. You may need them in the future. But, if it was me, I would get my thoughts together, perhaps write up a description of events from beginning to end, then when I had them firmly in mind, approach the store manager, explain your side, state clearly what you expect, and give them an opportunity to meet your expectations. If they don't, tell them the course of action you will take(contact Trek directly, and trust me on this, Trek is very customer friendly even if your local shop is not), and if they still don't respond, follow through. If you send me an e-mail, I'll give you Trek's # to call and talk to someone. :)

Well, I have e-mailed trek, but I have a feeling they didn't know what part I was talking about. I told them exactly what I said in my first post. I understand they might not of understood since I am new to mountain biking. I sent them the picture I put in this thread today. Their other e-mails have said nothing about the bike shop. About confronting the store owner, I am only 15, so I don't know if that would do much good. If I was older, this wouldn't be such a big deal to me, but since I am too young for a job and too young to drive, this was my only means of transportation, and I cannot afford to buy a new bike. I know I could get a T-Nut for $15 shipped from that site, but I feel like I would be paying for the shops mistake.

How long ago did you e-mail Trek? Have they responded? What did they say? You seemed to present everything very clearly in your posts here. The responders here had no problem understanding you. Trek shouldn't have a problem understanding you.

Yeah.. The first e-mail I received back from them asked what color scheme my bike had, I responded to tell them it was red with a white shock. They replied with this ''I would suggest replacing the Derrailleur hanger, it is made of aluminum and does not react well to repeated bending. The threads being stripped as a result of this is a common occurance.'' I then responded saying ''I am not sure you know what I meant, sorry. The deraileur hanging I am talking about it a part of the frame, so I don't see how I can go buy another one.. Thanks!''. They then responded with this ''It is replaceable, see your Local Trek shop for a replacement.'' After that I sent them the picture I put in this thread so they would know exactly what I am talking about.. I just found it hard to beleive I could go buy the deraileur hanging from a bike shop since it is part of the frame.

They asked you about the color scheme to identify the model. It is possible they made a mistake in identifying it though; it is obvious you don't have a replaceable derailleur hanger.

If I were you, and you really want to pursue this, I would call Trek and explain to them that you believe the shop is liable for this problem and that you are contacting Trek directly because you aren't getting satisfaction from your shop.

FIRST THOUGH, you need to talk to the shop manager or owner, explain why you want what you want(because you didn't strip the threads, etc...you think they should replace the frame or fix it for free, meaning install the dropout saver for free).

If they don't satisfy you, contact Trek and tell them the shop screwed up your frame and you want it replaced or fixed free and that you believe Trek needs to contact the shop to get it done because the shop isn't responding to you.

In the meantime, ask the shop if they will get your bike up and running so you can use it.

Did you take the frame in with or without a derailleur on it? Was a repair ticket written for this? Was any mention made of stripped threads on the repair ticket? Even an inattentive mechanic should have noticed stripped threads. *If there was no derailleur in the frame when you took it in and no mention was made of stripped threads on the repair tag, I think you have a pretty strong case*.

I took the frame in with the derailleur off, that's how I know they threads were not stripped when I took it in, as I looked it over after taking the derailleur off. They did not mention the stripped threads until I came to pick it up on my assigned pick-up day. I would of liked it if they called when they found the stripped threads and said so. I just think it's funny that they didn't notice the stripped threads until AFTER they bent it back into shape. One problem.. I don't know if I still have the repair tag..

Well let us know what happens after you talk to the owner or the store manager. They should be able to get you a copy of the repair ticket. If you speak to the manager and don't get what you want, ask to speak to the owner. They'll probably give you a dodge on that but be insistent. If after 3 attempts to talk to the owner by phone or in person you still haven't been put in touch with him/her, go straight to Trek and don't waste any more time. Keep us posted.

I don't really know about going to speak with them directly though, I feel I am going to be ignored or not taken seriously just because of my age. Can I just go straight to Trek right now? I know they bike shop will do nothing for me as they will not admit they stripped the threads.

It's ok for you to go straight to Trek at any time; I would just be sure I'd exhausted all my options. Obviously, you feel you have. Keep us posted.

Should I make it more of a point to Trek that I think this bike shop screwed me over? I already told them my story and they have only tried to help me fix it (which I understand, as they are the Tech Support..), they haven't mentioned one word about the bike shop. I am going to try and write a good letter tonight so I can send it to them. Is there anyway trek could get this problem solved for me? I doubt they will give me a whole new frame, but at the least they could get a T-Nut for me (even though I'd rather have it the way it was before).

Hey guys.. I am getting sick of not having a bike to ride, I think I am just going to go ahead and order the T-Nut for $14.45 including shipping. Thanks for all your help!

Hey.. I just fixed up my bike. I bought the dropout saver and installed it. It went in perfectly, so I then took my bike in to a different bike shop and had them put in a new chain, a new front tube, and a new derailluer wire. They charged me $23 for everything plus installation, so I am pretty happy. I will post some pictures of it:

The guy at the bike shop said it also needs a new rear spindle. He said it is worn down and will skip in some gears. I rode it today and can see he was right. He said it'll be $50 to get a new spindle, he said he will also do some other stuff to put it in tip top shape. The price also includes installation.. Is this a fair price?
Sorry about the picture quality, I had to reduce the image quality so they'd fit on the site. Here's the whole bike:

Happy for Ya:)

Thanks, do you know if $50.00 is a reasonable price for them replacing the rear spindle? Could I do it myself for cheaper?

The mechanic is probably referring to the gear cluster that's on the rear wheel. They wear to fit as the chain wears. Just like you don't re-use old pistons in an engine after re-boring the piston holes, you don't re-use a significantly-worn chain with a new gear cluster, or vice versa.

$50 for the cluster and installation labor is a little high, but I think the mechanic probably intends to do quite a bit of tuning-up on your bike too. It looks like it's seen a lot of action :) Usually the gear cluster would come in around $25 plus about $5-$10 to install it. I'm betting the other $15-20 is for adjustment of other parts of the bike (bearings, wheel truing, front gear adjustment and/or brake systems). :)

Great to hear the dropout saver is working out for you, anyway! :) Is the other shop treating you well?

Thanks! I haven't talked to the other shop since.. I am still talking with Trek on the situation. I am just going to go with the shops $50 charge, it doesn't seem to unreasonable since he said he will do some other work as well. So should I not ride it with the new chain until I get the rear gear cluster replaced? I rode it about 3 miles today.

The skipping poses a safety hazard, so no one can really advise that it's good to ride it that way. If you do, try to stick with your bigger rear cogs and pedal lightly at a higher RPM so you aren't putting a lot of force on the chain.

And it wouldn't hurt to get a breakdown from the mechanic on where your $50 is going. Just ask him/her for a written breakdown on the parts & labor charges.

Ok, Thanks. I think I'll stay away from riding it until I get it fixed, I don't need to get injured.. lol I already have 7 stitches in my foot currently :rolleyes:.