View Full Version : Riding on the typical MUP at roadway speeds is...
Helmet Head
06-12-07, 12:55 PM
Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
Cromulent
06-12-07, 12:58 PM
Stupid? Dangerous? Asking for trouble? Mean-spirited? Ugly? Pointless? Impossible?
chipcom
06-12-07, 01:13 PM
Here's where Mr. Club Cyclist will pwn himself again. Define road speeds, HH.
Denny Koll
06-12-07, 01:16 PM
Don't see many cyclist killed on the MUP threads in this forum but I see a lot of cyclist killed by car/SUV threads.
I'm not answering, in that conditions on MUPs in NYC vary so widely that it's nearly impossible to imagine a "typical" MUP.
For instance, the MUP on the Brooklyn Bridge? That would be both stupid and dangerous to ride at speed (though many people do) as the path is bounded on both sides by waist-high iron fences, is made of wood, hosts thousands of tourists, many of whom are only dimly aware that they're sharing the space with cyclists, and is sufficiently loud that most normal audible signaling is unheard or at least unheeded.
The West Street MUP (parallel to the West Side Highway), though, is largely ridable at normal speeds (around 20mph is decent, I've seen guys much faster than that and others who are slower) because there are parallel paths for pedestrians and wheeled users, everyone on the main wheeled path is aware that it's moving at a quicker pace, the pedestrians (mostly runners) who do venture onto and across the cycling/skating lanes are acutely aware that they're sharing the lane w/bikes and it is well designed & not overcrowded (generally).
And the MUP in Prospect Park, which in truth is really more of an on-street shared accomodation, varies between various states of being, depending largely on time of day and whether motor vehicles are allowed in at all.
Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
Depends on the MUP. The one I ride upon perfect for riding at roadway speed... and I often do.
hey racer boy, slow down, get a bell and learn how to use it...
ps - I like your shoes!
;)
Cromulent
06-12-07, 02:16 PM
Depends on the MUP. The one I ride upon perfect for riding at roadway speed... and I often do.
Then you are lucky. In nice weather, there's no riding at roadway speeds on the one I use.
Denny Koll
06-12-07, 02:19 PM
hey racer boy, slow down, get a bell and learn how to use it...
ps - I like your shoes!
;)
Yeah....the guys with gay shoes need to slow down to about 5 mph.
Then you are lucky. In nice weather, there's no riding at roadway speeds on the one I use.
So much for "typical" MUP.
how do you define 'typical'? Anyone have their HeadSpeak Dictionary handy?
Helmet Head
06-12-07, 02:37 PM
Depends on the MUP. The one I ride upon perfect for riding at roadway speed... and I often do.
The SR 56 path with it's dearth of peds and low traffic is hardly typical of MUPs, much less with "significant traffic".
Denny Koll
06-12-07, 02:43 PM
The SR 56 path with it's dearth of peds and low traffic is hardly typical of MUPs, much less with "significant traffic".
Depends on where you live. In Eastern Michigan it's very typical.
The SR 56 path with it's dearth of peds and low traffic is hardly typical of MUPs, much less with "significant traffic".
The only significant traffic I have seen on that MUP were packs of cyclists, moving very fast.
I am afraid if you what to use qualifiers such as "typical" in reference to an MUP or "significant," you are going to have to specify exactly what you have in mind.
To me, the route 56 path is typical, and the numbers I see are significant... cyclists. ;)
RobertHurst
06-12-07, 03:05 PM
Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
Do you have the expectation that pedestrians and bicyclists who are in the roadway will obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles?
Robert
Helmet Head
06-12-07, 03:11 PM
Do you have the expectation that pedestrians and bicyclists who are in the roadway will obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles?
No, I don't, but they usually represent a tiny exceptional percentage of the road users I encounter, and the number of those that are relevant to me and what I'm doing is practically neglible.
No, I don't, but they usually represent a tiny exceptional percentage of the road users I encounter, and the number of those that are relevant to me and what I'm doing is practically neglible.
I believe you would mean driving, because that's what you 'typically' do on the road, yes?
Oh, and thank you for clarifying that you don't pay attention to pedestrians and cyclists when you are driving.
Keith99
06-12-07, 03:28 PM
Stupid? Dangerous? Asking for trouble? Mean-spirited? Ugly? Pointless? Impossible?
I'd go with the last. Honestly thinking about it the crowdedness of MUPs does not seem to be a bell curve or anything like it. Either almost empty, full or rush hour crowded. The level that I would call significant traffic yet ridable at speed could exist in theory, but I don't recall ever seeing it for any distance.
A typical MUP for me would be the Metro Parkway MUP that I ride on. Why is it typical to me? Because it resembles every other MUP in this area, hence typical.
And being a typical MUP it has a speed limit of 15mph. So would riding the road speed on this MUP be dangerous or not? Well, it'd definately be illegal. But as for the dangerous part we'd have to examine what "road speed" is. the road it runs beside is Metro Parkway, a 50-55mph parkway. Obviously no cyclist is going to go that fast on this MUP, considering it is f_l_a_t! The other roads it encounters other than major 55mph arteries are the 25mph residential streets. I cover about 12 miles of the MUP every day and encounter no more than half a dozen people on it (walking and biking). And on a 10-12ft wide striped MUP with less than 1 person per 2 miles that is so flat you can see for 2 miles ahead of you easily then I say there is no problem at riding the road speed of 25mph on it. And that my friend, is typical.
But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
Serge and his buds......in their dreams.
:lol:
Helmet Head
06-12-07, 04:58 PM
But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
There are two downhill sections where I often ride 25 or more mph on my to work (0.8 miles and 0.6 miles in length), and three sections on the way home (0.5 mi, 0.6 mi, 1.7 mi). And that's on a pretty short, but hilly, route (6 mi each way).
Stupid? Dangerous? Asking for trouble? Mean-spirited? Ugly? Pointless? Impossible?
All of the above.
I-Like-To-Bike
06-12-07, 05:47 PM
All of the above.
Not just repeating the VC conventional wisdom are ya? Are you sure if you have ever cycled on one, or even seen one in your journeys?:rolleyes:
There are two downhill sections where I often ride 25 or more mph on my to work (0.8 miles and 0.6 miles in length), and three sections on the way home (0.5 mi, 0.6 mi, 1.7 mi). And that's on a pretty short, but hilly, route (6 mi each way).
Reaching 25mph and maintaining 25mph are two different things. And these sections you are talking about are on roads right, not on an MUP that might avoid these hills in the first place.
But the ammount of time you are at or above 25mph is probably less than 90 seconds anyhow.
workingbike
06-12-07, 05:59 PM
Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
This question is meaningless, what is a typical MUP? under what rules?
But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
I maintain about a 13-14MPH average, (which includes hills and stops) but easily hit 25 on a couple of flat sections on my commute when I use my skinny tire bike. There is one long stretch on my alternate route (longer, reserved for long days) that has a 3 mile flat stretch on it where I can hold about 18 on my fat tire bike and about 25 on the skinny tire bike. (there are no intersections, so I push myself on this part)
On the downhills I hit about 32MPH peak... and don't intend to go much faster. :D
My entire commute is 45MPH and 50MPH arterials... with one small 35MPH section near my house. I feel very slow if I can't get some speed in on certain sections.
I maintain about a 13-14MPH average, (which includes hills and stops) but easily hit 25 on a couple of flat sections on my commute when I use my skinny tire bike. There is one long stretch on my alternate route (longer, reserved for long days) that has a 3 mile flat stretch on it where I can hold about 18 on my fat tire bike and about 25 on the skinny tire bike. (there are no intersections, so I push myself on this part)
On the downhills I hit about 32MPH peak... and don't intend to go much faster. :D
My entire commute is 45MPH and 50MPH arterials... with one small 35MPH section near my house. I feel very slow if I can't get some speed in on certain sections.
I guess I should have given more depth to my retorical question.
I was eluding to: how many commuters push themselves that hard every day? I for one like to enjoy my commute, I'm commuting, not racing. Yeah, I'll see what top speed I can get on certain spots, but for the most part I keep my pace around 12mph. And even if I was going to "go for a new record" I'd surely not do it on a congested MUP.
And I'm sure many many other commuters are the same in this aspect.
I guess I should have given more depth to my retorical question.
I was eluding to: how many commuters push themselves that hard every day? I for one like to enjoy my commute, I'm commuting, not racing. Yeah, I'll see what top speed I can get on certain spots, but for the most part I keep my pace around 12mph. And even if I was going to "go for a new record" I'd surely not do it on a congested MUP.
And I'm sure many many other commuters are the same in this aspect.
Honestly, it doesn't sound to me like you are either a 'real' or a 'serious' cyclist.
:eek:
just kidding!!! ;)
Honestly, it doesn't sound to me like you are either a 'real' or a 'serious' cyclist.
:eek:
just kidding!!! ;)
I'm not. i'm just a fat guy who uses a bicycle for transportation every day of the year. I likely log more miles in worse conditions (Michigan weather and traffic) than some of the people who consider themselves "real" and "serious" cyclists. ;)
And I'm not saying that as an attack on you, I saw your just kidding statement.
I guess I should have given more depth to my retorical question.
I was eluding to: how many commuters push themselves that hard every day? I for one like to enjoy my commute, I'm commuting, not racing. Yeah, I'll see what top speed I can get on certain spots, but for the most part I keep my pace around 12mph. And even if I was going to "go for a new record" I'd surely not do it on a congested MUP.
And I'm sure many many other commuters are the same in this aspect.
Some days are race days, other days are rest days.
I don't always push it, and really while commuting there are only a couple places that I do push... I have found that if I focus on speed, I tend to set aside some safety. So I don't sprint between lights or that sort of thing... but there are a couple places where I can put the hammer down... and I do so.
Congested MUP? What's that? :D
Congested MUP? What's that?
It's what Helmet Head started this thread aout :p
I know what you meant though ;)
Sometimes I wish I were commuting in the city myself. But then I'd miss my relaxing commute with beavers and deer and groundhogs and naked teenagers getting it on in the woods.
sbhikes
06-12-07, 07:51 PM
On the MUPs I regularly (daily) ride on I am able to ride at the same speeds I would be doing on the roadway with the added bonus that I don't have any traffic signals.
What is the point of this topic except to discredit bike paths? I'm guessing HH saw those pictures of gorgeous Minneapolis paths in the other thread and because he's an American Dream Coalition wannabe he's gotta find a way to discredit them or else we'll all be wanting our tax money to go for glorious bike paths instead of the auto-centric development we're supposed to want.
RobertHurst
06-12-07, 08:01 PM
No, I don't, but they usually represent a tiny exceptional percentage of the road users I encounter, and the number of those that are relevant to me and what I'm doing is practically neglible.
My riding environment is quite different.
R.
RobertHurst
06-12-07, 08:11 PM
On the MUPs I regularly (daily) ride on I am able to ride at the same speeds I would be doing on the roadway with the added bonus that I don't have any traffic signals.
...
That describes the 'typical' MUP through Denver as well. Even on the rare occasion when the MUP could be described as congested, from a purely utilitarian standpoint it compares favorably to the adjacent roadway, due to the existence of red light intersections along one and not the other.
Robert
Helmet Head
06-12-07, 09:42 PM
Reaching 25mph and maintaining 25mph are two different things. And these sections you are talking about are on roads right, not on an MUP that might avoid these hills in the first place.
But the ammount of time you are at or above 25mph is probably less than 90 seconds anyhow.
How do you get 90 seconds?
The longest downhill section is 1.7 mi, where my speed is usually in the low 30s most of the time, but probably drops below 30 on some sections. Say I average 30, that's 3:24 at 25 mph or above. If I average 25 on that 1.7 mi downhill stretch, that's 4:08 at 25 mph.
Now if I get behind a big truck and draft at 40 or so, that probably drops it below 2:30, but the timing rarely works out for that.
ghettocruiser
06-12-07, 09:44 PM
November through April my local MUP is almost deserted and is my preferred winter route to work. At full speed.
It seems to get pretty busy on summer weekends... but then, I don't ride to work on weekends.
On a true MUP (multi-user, meaning peds and skaters are present, as well as children, geese and other critters), I average 9 mph or less.
On a country road I average about 16 mph or less. On city streets I average 12 mph or less.
On a desserted MUP (winter in Michigan!) I ride about 11 mph or less. (Much less if there's ice on the trail!)
So, personally I ride quite a bit slower on a MUP. But I'm pretty slow every where! :)
chipcom
06-14-07, 12:18 PM
On a true MUP (multi-user, meaning peds and skaters are present, as well as children, geese and other critters), I average 9 mph or less.
On a country road I average about 16 mph or less. On city streets I average 12 mph or less.
On a desserted MUP (winter in Michigan!) I ride about 11 mph or less. (Much less if there's ice on the trail!)
So, personally I ride quite a bit slower on a MUP. But I'm pretty slow every where! :)
Perhaps more honest than slow. ;)
sbhikes
06-14-07, 01:40 PM
On a true MUP (multi-user, meaning peds and skaters are present, as well as children, geese and other critters)
No it only means they MAY be present. They are almost always NOT present at AM commuting times, and depending on the season and your PM commute time, may not be present in the evening either.
How do you get 90 seconds?
The longest downhill section is 1.7 mi, where my speed is usually in the low 30s most of the time, but probably drops below 30 on some sections. Say I average 30, that's 3:24 at 25 mph or above. If I average 25 on that 1.7 mi downhill stretch, that's 4:08 at 25 mph.
Now if I get behind a big truck and draft at 40 or so, that probably drops it below 2:30, but the timing rarely works out for that.
So you are already cruising at 25-30mph by the time you hit these hills?
Wow!!
But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
Apparently Bek does.
Don't see many cyclist killed on the MUP threads in this forum
I've seen a few.
I personally would MUCH rather duke it out on the roads with the cars than the peds and rollerbladers on the MUP any day. The only bad accident I have ever had was on a MUP (and I wasn't even going that fast). I have had more close calls with Cyclists on their cellphones weaving into me on a MUP than drivers on the road.
-D
On the MUPs I regularly (daily) ride on
Now Diane, please clarify. Because I distinctly remember many other times you have stated that the paths in your area are not MUPs but actual Bike paths. This is an important distinction.
What is the point of this topic except to discredit bike paths?
And part of the reason I am confused about the above. First you talk about MUPs, not bike paths? I think if HH wanted to talk about Bike paths he would have stated as such.
-D
No it only means they MAY be present. They are almost always NOT present at AM commuting times, and depending on the season and your PM commute time, may not be present in the evening either.
True, but do you ever really KNOW that it's going to be just you? I'm pretty chicken--I go slow on all the curves and hills, picturing in my mind that there's a motorized wheelchair around the next curve. I would feel so bad if I hit somebody, even a silly goose.
Besides I made the distinction between a busy MUP and a deserted one in the post you're responding to. Maybe you were going too fast to see it?
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