Living Car Free - Frugal Living

On the subject of CF bulbs...anybody had to try and get the warranty honored yet? I have one burned out that I am going to drag back to where I bought it from and see.:o It quit working after about 6 months. I realize they do save a massive amount of energy in place of regular incandescent bulbs but I wonder about the manufacturing process. According to the label they contain small amounts of mercury...

Aaron:)

On the subject of CF bulbs...anybody had to try and get the warranty honored yet? I have one burned out that I am going to drag back to where I bought it from and see.:o It quit working after about 6 months. I realize they do save a massive amount of energy in place of regular incandescent bulbs but I wonder about the manufacturing process. According to the label they contain small amounts of mercury...

Aaron:)
You should also wonder how to dispose of them. Apparently, when you break them, there is also a recommended procedure..
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

On the subject of CF bulbs...anybody had to try and get the warranty honored yet? I have one burned out that I am going to drag back to where I bought it from and see. It quit working after about 6 months. I realize they do save a massive amount of energy in place of regular incandescent bulbs but I wonder about the manufacturing process. According to the label they contain small amounts of mercury...


If you live near an IKEA store, I believe they accept a variety of recyclables (at least in the USA).

My closest IKEA accepts used household batteries (all types) incandescent bulbs, and yes, fluorescent bulbs, which definitely do not belong in the trash.

I think this needs to be bumped back up. A lot of helpful and useful tips in this thread. Provided we can stay on track with it. ;)

I couldn't live like this. I would go crazy. I enjoy spending money whenever I have some extra, and I don't regret it.

bump

hey hey hey!

Latest issue of Smary Money mag: Cover title is "Live Debt Free"
"keeping you debt load as light as possible can be the key to your future"

who knew? ;)

a few interesting tidbits: people are staying in debt (especially with mortgages) for higher amunts, longer into their life.

Average debt load is 1.5 to 3 times annual income for under 40yrs old, 1.4 to 2.7 times income for 40-49, 1.2-2.4 for 50-59, and .8-1.6 for 60+ yrs old.

They suggest targets of no more than 1.5, 1.0, .5, and debt-free by 60. Including housing.

personally i'm right at debt = annual income, i *could* pay it all off with savngs. The debt is lo-rate though. 4% on a car (i'm a sinner...) and 5.5% on a house. so i figure it makes most sense to keep the savings in investments.

Frugal living begins with a positive attitude. It works if it's approached as a challenge, a game or a way of life. It won't work for those who view it as drudgery, sacrifice and hardship. It also won't work if it's seen as a temporary measure, just until the debt load becomes manageable. Wise money management and spending habits are long-term solutions, not quick fixes.

A few frugal living tips I've picked up over the years:

• Set up a special bank account for long-term savings, preferably at a different bank or credit union than the one you use for day-to-day banking. Feed this account regularly. It's okay to move the money out of this account and into mutual funds, term deposits and the like, or even for an investment purchase (but go carefully here.) It's not for ordinary consumer and household purchases. A financial planner can give good advice about investing money wisely.

• Keep the credit card limit low and pay off the balance right away. A credit card should be for emergency transactions only. A few years ago, I had a credit card and a line of credit from my bank. The bank kept increasing my limit until I was able to access, with no questions asked, more than one year's take-home pay. I've never been close to hitting the maximum, but I was quite concerned. I asked the bank to cancel the line of credit and to cut my credit card limit down to one-quarter of what it was. Grudgingly, they complied.

• Shop for quality, not just price. For some purchases, it's frugal to spend more money initially and get something well-made and long-lasting rather than hunting down the lowest price. Bicycles are one example. A $1,000 bike that lasts 15 years is a much better value than a $150 department store bike that lasts one year.

On the subject of CF bulbs...anybody had to try and get the warranty honored yet? I have one burned out that I am going to drag back to where I bought it from and see.:o It quit working after about 6 months. I realize they do save a massive amount of energy in place of regular incandescent bulbs but I wonder about the manufacturing process. According to the label they contain small amounts of mercury...

Aaron:)

I have also gone through wuite a few of these, I do get more than 6 months out of them; generally, one and a half to two years of limited use (like a bedroom or over the kitchen table) of course, they don't work at all on places like my bathroom.

Working out the cost, I determined that they cost about the same, or slightly more, on average, than regular bulbs. But, they do use less energy so there is some savings there.

I have been told that the reason that they do not last for me is that have clean enough power. There is just no way I can justify purchasing a house size line conditioner to save on light bulbs. These are also the only devices that seem to have a problem. I also put a line analyzer on my house (I used it at work) there was nothing out of specifications for residential power.

I did have one of these CF bulbs go in such a manner that it filed the house with smoke. I was not home and the kids called the fire department. In general, they are usable but no replacement for conventional florescent tube lighting (which, if you contact school maintenance departments, can often be gotten for free).

Someone mentioned buying in bulk and for me that has helped save a lot of money. I have purchased several containers which I can use to fill up cereal, cat food, rice, pastas, dried fruits, condiments, peanut butter and washing detergent at the local co-op. Not only do I get to save money, but I get to reduce my waste stream. My partner and I try to only spend one grad student salary and save the other paycheck. We only use savings acct and CDs until we can research more investment options.

I bulk buy on sale items at the grocery store. It's important to keep track of whether something on sale is truly a good price or not. I keep a tiny notebook in my wallet and write down the best sale prices on the items I usually buy. Then I can scan the sale flyers and sales racks and compare with the best prices I've seen before deciding to buy or not. I learned this from The Tightwad Gazette.

I have a tiny garden this year and it's cranking out the zuchinnis. A friend has gone on vacation for 3 weeks and has asked me to harvest her garden for her. I'm getting lots of free veggies to stock the freezer with this summer!

I have a CC, but I seldom carry it around with me. I use it for ordering things online and I'll take it with me if I am specifically going to buy something or am taking a long car trip (for emergencies). Otherwise it stays home in the lockbox. I don't have a debit card.

Check out a good forum: frugalvillage.com

I'll buy certain grocery items in bulk. Rice, sugar, flour, tea and other items are often available in large size packages, often for only a little more than a package of half the size. I could buy potatoes and onions in bulk as well, but I don't eat them fast enough to make the cost worthwhile. I also hate throwing out any food.

We have a bulk and natural foods store in town where I'll buy beans, lentils and spices. They offer a discount for those who bring in their own containers. With the discount, the price is around the same as at the grocery store, but there's far less packaging involved.

Something that works for some people: buying high-protein wheat berries (or hard red spring wheat) in 50lb bags, at discount through natural foods stores (among other possibilities).

They provide unusually high levels of calories and protein per dollar.

There is a lot you can do with wheat berries. They are great for sprouts, which can be used in salads, or cooked and eaten like pasta. Sprouts can also be used to make wonderful breads, including Essene bread (or Mana bread). The dry berries can be ground for hot cereals, breads, and many other good foods.

I don't carry my debit card on me for the sake of not making impulse purchases.

another thing I do is try not to eat out much, when I find myself thinking of grabbing something out or making an unnecessary purchase, I take that money and put it into savings. The way I figure, it was going to something that I didn't need, so why not put into something worth while.

Wife and I tried the "envelope" method this month.

in a 45-day period this summer our "food" bill was $1300:eek: (i'm embarrassed to post that). there are 3 of us: me, wife, and 1 yr old. and somehow we managed to spend almost $30/day on food, between grovery store and fast food. the problem seemed to be two-fold: we'd buy whatever we want at the grocery store cause it looked good and we were hungry while shopping, and wife has been commuting to a neighboring town the last couple months to help a sick sister, and spending a ton on fast food along the way. plus "grocery" covers everything else we get there: soap, wine, etc.

this month we put $350 in the food envelope to cover both groceries & fast food. still seems pretty high but we do eat well - fruit, meat is pricey and it's sure easy to split a $6 bottle of wine every few evenings. it's the 28th and we have about $50 left. a lot better than last time around...

Something that works for some people: buying high-protein wheat berries (or hard red spring wheat) in 50lb bags, at discount through natural foods stores (among other possibilities).

They provide unusually high levels of calories and protein per dollar.

There is a lot you can do with wheat berries. They are great for sprouts, which can be used in salads, or cooked and eaten like pasta. While dry, they can be ground for hot cereals and breads.......

Sounds pretty good. Another way to get a substantial amount of protein for your money is to buy beans or lentils, dried or canned. Dried is more economical, but canned can be much more convenient. Beans and lentils are in the same food group as meat and far cheaper.

Wife and I tried the "envelope" method this month.

in a 45-day period this summer our "food" bill was $1300:eek: (i'm embarrassed to post that). there are 3 of us: me, wife, and 1 yr old. and somehow we managed to spend almost $30/day on food, between grovery store and fast food. the problem seemed to be two-fold: we'd buy whatever we want at the grocery store cause it looked good and we were hungry while shopping, and wife has been commuting to a neighboring town the last couple months to help a sick sister, and spending a ton on fast food along the way. plus "grocery" covers everything else we get there: soap, wine, etc.

this month we put $350 in the food envelope to cover both groceries & fast food. still seems pretty high but we do eat well - fruit, meat is pricey and it's sure easy to split a $6 bottle of wine every few evenings. it's the 28th and we have about $50 left. a lot better than last time around...

Envelopes is a great system and works for a lot of people. We use a couple of different systems, but the principle is the same. We do what we call a Freedom Account. Take the expenses that occur occasionally, like car maintenance, taxes, etc. Divide the amount by 12 and deposit that amount in an account every month. Then when the bill comes due you take it from that account, it takes a while to get ahead on it, but once ahead you keep it fully funded and it keeps you off the credit cards. You also need a savings account for real emergencies. We firmly believe in the 80/10/10 10% into savings, 10% gets given away. Live on 80%. We got the idea from Mary Hunt (http://www.cheapskatemonthly.com/mary.asp) Her system works well for us.

Aaron:)

Aaron:)

Sounds pretty good. Another way to get a substantial amount of protein for your money is to buy beans or lentils, dried or canned. Dried is more economical, but canned can be much more convenient. Beans and lentils are in the same food group as meat and far cheaper.

I buy dried beans and lentils. They're much cheaper than canned and they're almost as convenient, provided I think ahead first.

You can boil lentils on the stove in a matter of minutes. Other beans need to be softened first. Pre-soaking overnight works, or put about a cup of beans into a crock pot, add a litre or two of water and put it on high for a few hours. The beans will cook and they'll be ready to use.

On cycling trips, I'll take dried lentils for food. I can easily cook them up and add some vegetables for a cheap and nutritious meal.

If you're worried about getting gas from beans, drain and rinse the beans after you've softened them up. Also, over time your body will get used to beans.

You can also cook beans in a pressure cooker (http://missvickie.com/howto/beans/bean-cooking.html) to get them done in a hurry. I "pre-soak" (http://missvickie.com/howto/beans/howtosoak.html) mine using the pressure cooker takes about 15-20 minutes. I used to have a sweet little 1 liter cooker but lost it in a move a while back.

Aaron:)

Wife and I tried the "envelope" method this month.

in a 45-day period this summer our "food" bill was $1300:eek: (i'm embarrassed to post that). there are 3 of us: me, wife, and 1 yr old. and somehow we managed to spend almost $30/day on food, between grovery store and fast food. the problem seemed to be two-fold: we'd buy whatever we want at the grocery store cause it looked good and we were hungry while shopping, and wife has been commuting to a neighboring town the last couple months to help a sick sister, and spending a ton on fast food along the way. plus "grocery" covers everything else we get there: soap, wine, etc.

this month we put $350 in the food envelope to cover both groceries & fast food. still seems pretty high but we do eat well - fruit, meat is pricey and it's sure easy to split a $6 bottle of wine every few evenings. it's the 28th and we have about $50 left. a lot better than last time around...

I had to laugh at your 'food' tally. We ran our numbers a few months ago and hit just higher than you. There's 2 of us, and we do not count food for the dog and cat in our food budget. It opened out eyes. We both work and travel quite a bit - we decided to tone down my livelihood and travel so I can do more of the household work - cooking, cleaning, and the renovations we have going on. So far its been good - we shop at the local coop and through the summer buy local and organic if we can - so we spend a bit more on groceries (but support the local economy!) - but we've cut the food # in half. Still alot for 2 - but we're working at the rest of it. I'd love to see us hit $500. Its possible, but we might be giving up some things... (and we're pregnant - so we've entered 'craving cooking' - its been an adventure!)

We firmly believe in the 80/10/10 10% into savings, 10% gets given away. Live on 80%. We got the idea from Mary Hunt (http://www.cheapskatemonthly.com/mary.asp) Her system works well for us.

Aaron:)

even with the outrageous food bill, we were still managing to save 20-25%... I tend to believe in living on enough to be comfortable, give 10%, and save the rest. part of the reason i like TX is cause we can live well, cheaply! :D

I had to laugh at your 'food' tally. We ran our numbers a few months ago and hit just higher than you. There's 2 of us, and we do not count food for the dog and cat in our food budget. It opened out eyes. We both work and travel quite a bit - we decided to tone down my livelihood and travel so I can do more of the household work - cooking, cleaning, and the renovations we have going on. So far its been good - we shop at the local coop and through the summer buy local and organic if we can - so we spend a bit more on groceries (but support the local economy!) - but we've cut the food # in half. Still alot for 2 - but we're working at the rest of it. I'd love to see us hit $500. Its possible, but we might be giving up some things... (and we're pregnant - so we've entered 'craving cooking' - its been an adventure!)

glad to hear we're not the only one... and congrats on the expected family addition. We went through that a couple years back and the little woman was so sick for about 3mo the food bill wnet way down :p. Now we're at the point where the 18 mo old boy eats more than his momma, and almost as much as me :eek:. Soon as he can handle a spade, he's learning to garden, to suppliment his diet!:D

The easiest way to save money on food is to buy from bulk stores, avoid expensive packaged products that 'seem' like a good savings but really have little nutritional value. Go for the fruits and vegetables first, easiest source of snacks for kids is fruit definitely and if they complain about not having chocolate junk well from time to time bake cookies for their lunch bags.

Another way to avoid spending gobs of money is reuseable bags. Think of it, the average 'price saver' store charges you 7 cents a bag if you want bags. Just bring your own. And it limits the number of 'compulsion' purchases you can get because you are limited to the bag space you brought with you.

Another food saving tip: clip coupons and price shop at different grocery stores before you decide where to shop. Sounds corny, but you never know. I saved a bundle on cereal because I found a different store had my favorite brand on for less money. Since I don't use a car to get there I just take my groceries from store A home then walk down to store B and pick up the cheap stuff (I live within walking distance of two grocery stores. Love! But hey, this is a bike forum so you probably have bikes right? :P)

Next tip: quantity does not equal quality. All those 'bulk cereal for an extra dollar' things doesn't mean you get more for your money. Its just a bigger more expensive box of nutritionally devoid cereal. Get a good brand of nutritionally dense cereal, and compliment it with strawberries, and avoid 'temptation' cereals that say they're only a dollar more but have little bang for that extra buck.

Okay, off cereals now. That tip works for any type of food. For break, buy bakery bread, its just as cheap as loaf/manufactured bread and better for you. Milk eggs and cheese are all created equally so say no to expensive fancy brands and just go for the in-store brand discount variety. Its the same stuff, and you will save money very quickly.

I couldn't live like this. I would go crazy. I enjoy spending money whenever I have some extra, and I don't regret it.

What's your definition of extra?

I live on 50% of my income and stash away the rest, but there is no extra. ;) Money is a tool, nothing more or less.

I couldn't live like this. I would go crazy. I enjoy spending money whenever I have some extra, and I don't regret it.

There's no reason that you can't live frugally and still have an enjoyable lifestyle. The trick is to spend on the activities and things that you enjoy the hell out of :D

My partner and I like wine and beer. They're not something we "need" by any stretch. But we both really enjoy trying new wines, pairing them with food, and talking over which ones taste better (and why!). And some foods taste better with beer or when made with beer, so we have fun with that too. So we count money spent on wine and beer as money well spent. Getting plastered every night isn't fun, so we've got a built in limit on our spending here.

We do spend less on things we don't like, or where spending more doesn't get us any benefit. That means no bottled water habit, since tap does well enough. And if I'm going to buy a Special Sports Drink, the money usually goes to Gatorade, since the powder version is cheap and does well enough if one of us is feeling ill.

To me, being frugal isn't about deprivation. It's about having money to to use as I wish, when I need it.

i actually don't enjoy spending money on little things. i view it the same as any precious resource. just like i wouldn't go out and leave the garden hose on, i wouldn't let money slip through my hands.

i enjoy investing and watching it grow, for someday it will support myself, put my children through college, and possibly take care of my parents in their old age. i would hate to neglect any of those things because i wanted some instant satisfaction on some throw away item.

We have Big Lots (http://www.biglots.com/) here in Columbus. It's a closeout store, so from what I gather it's something along the lines of taking the "damaged" goods a store can't accept delivery for. It's still able to be sold, but it might be one of 3 boxes that fell of the truck. I have gotten Crest Toothpaste for 2 dollars a large tube, whole wheat pasta for .50-80 cents, Jones Soda 16 oz cans for .60 cents, Kashi cereal at $2-2.50 a box and my latest find, a concession/vending box of Nature Valley granola bars, 35 pouches/70 bars, for $8.

We have Big Lots (http://www.biglots.com/) here in Columbus. It's a closeout store, so from what I gather it's something along the lines of taking the "damaged" goods a store can't accept delivery for. It's still able to be sold, but it might be one of 3 boxes that fell of the truck. I have gotten Crest Toothpaste for 2 dollars a large tube, whole wheat pasta for .50-80 cents, Jones Soda 16 oz cans for .60 cents, Kashi cereal at $2-2.50 a box and my latest find, a concession/vending box of Nature Valley granola bars, 35 pouches/70 bars, for $8.

I got a bike trailer from big lots for $50. It was of the type that can seat two kids or tote whatever with the seat folded down. yay!

If you are in Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana, Hudson's is a good store, similar to big lots. I once got a brand new (no box, but it had all the accessories and the disposable protective cover they use in packaging) 20gb ipod for $35. yay again!

I think the aboriginal peoples are the only ones to get it right. As far as having a society that can govern itself and does not destroy the evironment that it depends on to live. But subsistence living is a heck of a tough way to do things, and the planet is far to over-populated with people for this to currently be feasible.

Unfortunately this is not entirely correct. Quite a few cultures/civilizations have destroyed their environment, the major reason we don’t see this is because the environment is so large and the people are so small. We can begin to see these problems arise when the people live in small areas, such as the Polynesian islands, and Central America.

Easter Island is a great example of what humans can do to their environment without even knowing about it. The entire island was stripped of trees, mostly to support the statue building. Its not like they wanted to destroy the environment, but their actions eventually lead to the destruction of the plant life that supported the people. I suggest reading Collapse (http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Societies-Choose-Fail-Succeed/dp/0143036556/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209315391&sr=8-1)

since starting this thread about a year ago, and putting into practise many of the suggestions (envalope budget method, buying bulk commodities, etc) my family has gone from saving just a bit to saving a LOT, and feeling good about it!

For my part: Thanks for the help all.

Starting tomorrow I am going to make a solid effort at riding my bike to work at least 3 times a week. I'm also going to be trying out the envelope budget method that some of the other members has discussed. Hopefully now that I make more and live closer to work all of these things will bring about a more positive position in my life. :)

Keep the tips coming!

Don't feel too bad.

We have 2 people in our household, my girlfriend and I. Our total monthly food bill averages 300/week or $1200 every 30 days.


Wife and I tried the "envelope" method this month.

in a 45-day period this summer our "food" bill was $1300:eek: (i'm embarrassed to post that). there are 3 of us: me, wife, and 1 yr old. and somehow we managed to spend almost $30/day on food, between grovery store and fast food. the problem seemed to be two-fold: we'd buy whatever we want at the grocery store cause it looked good and we were hungry while shopping, and wife has been commuting to a neighboring town the last couple months to help a sick sister, and spending a ton on fast food along the way. plus "grocery" covers everything else we get there: soap, wine, etc.

this month we put $350 in the food envelope to cover both groceries & fast food. still seems pretty high but we do eat well - fruit, meat is pricey and it's sure easy to split a $6 bottle of wine every few evenings. it's the 28th and we have about $50 left. a lot better than last time around...

when one lives day to day and paycheck to paycheck, every day is frugal living.
I get used to sleeping on the floor on a hand me down futon.

Bakeries and food shops here discount their price 50 percent off after 5pm
I hit the fruit carts on Fridays to stock up on their unsold goods. They don't
work on the weekend and don't want to return their stock to what is basically
a warehouse for food vendor carts.

I try to layoff the sodium ladened Ramen noodle stuff and eat simple veggies,
like quick boiled lettuce with soy sauce. (low sodium soy) Carrots are cheaper
than potatoes here so I eat a lot of that. Leafy greens are a splurge item.
(except for spinach)

Carrots are cheaper than potatoes here so I eat a lot of that. Leafy greens are a splurge item.

Carrots, unlike potatoes, are a nearly-zero-calorie food. They are good for you because they contain fiber and nutrients, but they don't provide any significant number of calories that a human can use from energy, since we can't break down fiber/cellulose for energy. (if you add some butter, oil, or salad dressing/dip to carrots you'll have something with calories.)

150g of potatoes contain about 110 calories. 100g of raw carrots contain about 30 calories so an equivalent amount would contain about 45 calories. That's a bit less than half the calories, but they're far from being zero cal.

I mentioned Big Lots earlier. I love walking in and finding great deals. Well today I ended up with:

6 Cliff Bars ($1/each)
2 gallons of Gatorade ($1.70/each)
2 packages of spaghetti ($.70/each)
6 box pack of Rice a Roni ($5)

All for $16 and change

Hunting/gathering is how humans have lived throughout most of their existence, and generally it seems like life expectancy was probably something like 40 or 50 years old. After farming took hold, and up until maybe just a few hundred years ago, life expectency was even less because farming allows for more people in closer proximity, more people living closer to animals, etc., and there has always been far more sickness and disease among settled groups of people than hunter/gatherers. Also, malnutrition has always been higher among settled people until fairly recently. There's a lot of things we suffer from that hunter/gatherers would have never suffered from, for instance cavities. Cavities are basically a result of processed food. You see a lot of worn teeth when you dig up old bones, but you don't see any cavities because there were no processed grains and no processed sugars.

All in all people probably enjoyed far fewer maladies than modern people, and most certainly far fewer than settled people from say... 6,000bc to maybe 300 years ago? Most of the health problems modern societies deal with are a result of our lifestyle and ancient hunter/gatherers would have never encountered them. Their diet on average was probably quite healthy and diverse and they got tons of exercise. So speculating that they probably had less lesiure time because they didn't have modern healthcare to extend their lives long enough to retire is like saying they probably weren't as happy because they didn't get to watch movies. It doesn't make any sense.

Also- you're not thinking of the term "work" correctly. A hunter/gatherer only has about an hour or two worth of things a day that they HAVE to do in order to enjoy their lifestyle. That doesn't mean they "work" for 2 hours while we "work" for 8. No. Cooking, cleaning, making our beds, driving (or biking) to work or anywhere we need to go, buying groceries, buying clothes, going to the post office, paying bills... everything you do in a day that you have to do is work, not just your job. A hunter/gatherer does about an hour or two (on average, sometimes that means spending two full days hunting and then a whole week just hanging out) and that's it. That includes preparing food, shelter, etc.



I totally agree with the information that TimJ has shared about hunter/gatherers. I also believe the theory that while they had a lower standard of living, they had a higher quality of life.

I think they were very, very tired.

I've been saving a lot in freezer cooking. I make mass quantities of my favorite dish, a saag variation, and stow it in the freezer for up to a few months. Each container makes 2-3 nights worth of dinners, and each batch makes four containers.

I've been saving a lot in freezer cooking. I make mass quantities of my favorite dish, a saag variation, and stow it in the freezer for up to a few months. Each container makes 2-3 nights worth of dinners, and each batch makes four containers.

Not to be a sad sack, but make sure you can power your freezer off grid or have good
house insurance to cover a major food loss. I kid you not.

when I visited Alaska last summer, many residents freeze their food
in those vacuum Foodsaver thingies. you got some nice people up there.

I think they were very, very tired.

It seems that most scholars believe that they spent a very small part of the day working for survival, much less than in agrarian or industrial communities. The reason many gave it up was not to save time, but lack of land. Hunter-gatherers spend less time working, but they need vast amounts of land. Of course, they use it much less intensively than in agriculture.