Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - question of lighting

on bike lighting: im thinking of mounting a light low down on the fork
very close to the drop out but im worried about giant cast shadows
from the tire. is this avoidable, hazardous, a bad idea? should i just
mount them higher or on a font rack? i really like the look of the light down low. ive seen it mounted there on other bikes so im curious about the pros and cons.

The lady I crewed for in the 1988 RAAM had one light down there to fill in the shadow created by the big lights on her follow vehicle. She had another light up on her handlebars for when the vehicle was on a curve behind her. Back then she had the old Union Frodenberg lights, feeble by today's standards. The lower light was offset 3-4 inches from the front dropout that it was clamped to so there was not too much problem with tire shadows.

im not fond of the idea of having the light sticking out and away from the fork too far since i can see myself breaking a lot of lights that way.
im also a solo randonneur so no follow vehicle or anything. just want bright and efficient. my thinking is that low to the ground is a good angle for shadowing road shape, pot holes, etc. but if im going to cast a giant shadow from my tire is it worth it?
im going for hub generator power as well with a supplemental battery powered light perhaps just for extra light on the downhills

I have a friend in California who tours on a Rivendell and he has 2 Cateye Micro halogen lights with one on each fork along with his main dual beam light on the bars. He hasn't thought of any negatives to doing this and rode many miles around the country. Actually I like what he did because when you look at him riding towards you the image is more visible and pronounced. I thought of myself doing that same thing but instead I went with a amber flasher to compliment the main light.

I have a friend in California who tours on a Rivendell and he has 2 Cateye Micro halogen lights with one on each fork along with his main dual beam light on the bars.

my thoughts are that if the fork mounted lights were low enough to cast shadows his handlebar light would have canceled out any tire shadows(?) i dont plan on having a handlebar light as there will be a bag in the way.

i thought about one on each side of the fork also but as im going for hub generated power im hoping to avoid the extra drag. even if i did do that i would only use the second light for decents so im still in the same place.

much thanks to everyone whos reading this

on bike lighting: im thinking of mounting a light low down on the fork
very close to the drop out but im worried about giant cast shadows
from the tire. is this avoidable, hazardous, a bad idea? should i just
mount them higher or on a font rack? i really like the look of the light down low. ive seen it mounted there on other bikes so im curious about the pros and cons.
I did last year's brevet series with a light clamped to my front fork.and here are a couple of tips that I can give.
you should be really careful about tightening the clamp on the fork. The lower you go on the fork, the narrower it gets and the more difficult it becomes to get a tight, secure fit. The last thing you want is for your light to shake loose and swing into your spokes.
I would personally mount it higher, maybe about half or 2/3rds the way down your fork as this makes it easier to switch the light while on your bike. If you mount it by the drop out, you will have to stop to toggle your lighting system. I also think that a light mounted too low will throw a beam that diffuses too quickly and won't be as bright as one that's a little higher but tilted slightly toward the road surface.
to eliminate shadow cast by the wheel, it is better to mount two lights on either side of your fork than to use a light on your handlebar. The benefit of lights on your fork is that the shallow beam pattern illuminates bumps, cracks and holes in the road surface as shadows. Having a high beam pointing down in addition to your low beams eliminates this advantage.
if you can, select lights that have some kind of mechanical switch as opposed to a button as it reduces the awkwardness of turning the light on or off in the dark.

my thoughts are that if the fork mounted lights were low enough to cast shadows his handlebar light would have canceled out any tire shadows(?) i dont plan on having a handlebar light as there will be a bag in the way.

i thought about one on each side of the fork also but as im going for hub generated power im hoping to avoid the extra drag. even if i did do that i would only use the second light for decents so im still in the same place.

much thanks to everyone whos reading this

i think mid-fork is a great place for lights. out of the way of anything happening on the bars, and out of the way of a wheel change, should you need it. (some folks mount right at skewer height).

you'll break less lights than you think. i've had my dual E6 lights on the forks for over a year now... (knocks on wood)

you'll also probably use both lights more than you think. i get full brightness around 8-10 mph - so cruising along at speed is easy to get both lights bright. when i ride in town and am stopping and going i usually only use 1 light, or when climbing i switch the secondary off.

i also use a cateye thing on the bars as a 'be seen' light. its really to small to throw much light on the road. when in town i leave it on while at lights, and sometimes i set it to blink if there is alot of traffic (my E6s go out when i stop moving)

http://www.mikebeganyi.com/webimages/ifcr/if-ticr-rando.jpg

You will get used to the shadow of the tire. not a big problem.
I like the illumination pattern from fork mounted lights better.

http://www.mikebeganyi.com/webimages/ifcr/if-ticr-rando.jpg[/QUOTE]


What a stunning bike ! Read your blog about the bike, I am sick with envy.:)

bmike, great post on your IF bike! :)

on bike lighting: im thinking of mounting a light low down on the fork
very close to the drop out but im worried about giant cast shadows
from the tire. is this avoidable, hazardous, a bad idea? Yeah it is a stupid place to mount a light.

Typically, you want you light source to come the same direction as your sight line. That's why helmet lights are best. Next to that, putting the light on the high side of the handle bars is next best.

An important consideration, is that any mount to the handlebar is "dampened." Mounting directly to the fork invites the most vibration possible, not good for longevity of the mount or the light.

Yeah it is a stupid place to mount a light.

Typically, you want you light source to come the same direction as your sight line. That's why helmet lights are best. Next to that, putting the light on the high side of the handle bars is next best.

An important consideration, is that any mount to the handlebar is "dampened." Mounting directly to the fork invites the most vibration possible, not good for longevity of the mount or the light.

Actually, having the light shining from a lower angle than your eyes is a very good practice because you can see the shadows cast by the light to better discern obstacles in the road. Low mounting a light makes it much more effective. since bike lights are often only marginally bright, especially at high speed, low mounting is very helpful. Helmet lights on a road bike are useful mostly for reading cue sheets and street signs since the light follows your line of sight. On a mountain bike, helmet lights are great because they let you look far into turns - something that you cannot do nearly as well with a bar mounted light. but they are so close to your eyes that they flatten everything.

Vibration issues are not a concern with a quality light. Lights designed for handlebar mounting on a road bike will see plenty of vibration regardless of whether they are mounted on the fork or the bars.

The major issue to resolve is keeping the mount from slipping down the taper of the fork, coming loose, and possibly getting into the spokes. This is easily avoided using a strip of rubber gasket or doublestick tape underneath the mounting strap.

The two easiest ways to mount the lights are using either a Minoura stub or a Cronometro Nob. The Minoura stub is more secure than the Nob, but is not recommended for carbon forks.

The shadow from the front wheel will be there. As another poster mentioned, install a light on each fork and it will be no problem. At worst, it's an annoyance as the shadow extends at an angle and doesn't impact the light down the road where you need it. You quickly get used to it.

Actually, having the light shining from a lower angle than your eyes is a very good practice because you can see the shadows cast by the light to better discern obstacles in the road. Low mounting a light makes it much more effective. since bike lights are often only marginally bright, especially at high speed, low mounting is very helpful. Helmet lights on a road bike are useful mostly for reading cue sheets and street signs since the light follows your line of sight. On a mountain bike, helmet lights are great because they let you look far into turns - something that you cannot do nearly as well with a bar mounted light. but they are so close to your eyes that they flatten everything.

Vibration issues are not a concern with a quality light. Obviously, you're joking. I mean, this is complete blather, all of it....

Obviously, you're joking. I mean, this is complete blather, all of it....
why?

why?

Consider the source...

More blather: http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/page3.htm

Obviously, you're joking. I mean, this is complete blather, all of it....

explain, because on this i don't think you know what you are talking about.

have you ridden with low mounted lights?
why don't car makers put headlights at eye level on the windshield?


and i'll add that a helmet mounted light is troublesome in rain, fog, and snow... lowriders work much better in these circumstances as well.


edit - and why are objects more striking at sunrise or sunset, than at high noon? shadows differentiate...

edit - and why are objects more striking at sunrise or sunset, than at high noon? shadows differentiate...


but they are so close to your eyes that they flatten everything.


I've got no comment on the rest of it, but these two statements are 100% correct. That's the reason no decent photographer uses a camera mounted flash unless they are also using slaved strobes. Having the only or primary light source too near the lens (or eye) removes all of the shadows and flattens the image. Outdoor photography that is not done just after dawn or prior to dusk looks flat too, due to the lack of shadows.

I run my dual cateye el530s on the folk braze ons(mounted to small plastic shafts, though a short section of broomstick or whatever drilled through would work well too). The shadow cast from the wheel curves away and doesn't really hide anything, and of course with two lights its not an issue at all.

Helmet lights are great, but illuminate what you are looking at, maybe not the pothole you are about to run over. Very handy for the twisties though.

thanks a million to everyone whos pitched in. i think ive come to a good conclusion based on all the input as well as this gem that i found:

http://www.sheldonbrown.org/raleigh-international/pages/international-nexus08.html


seems brilliant to me.

thanks again

where did RC go?
i was hoping to hear "why" fork "mounting" lights was complete "blather" and the only real "place" to mount them is on your "helmet"...