Cyclocross - Getting a new fork on my '07 Tricross

My Tricross would shake fairly seriously when using the front brake. The mechanic at my LBS said it has a bad fork and he would order me one under warranty. Well, they didn't have one. However, my boss is a life-long friend of the LBS owner, so the way it worked out is that I have a S-series fork and headset on the way . It won't match as I have a green tricross sport, but hey, can't argue with the upgrade.

lucky you, hook a brother up!

what made you decide to get a tricross over a crosscheck or poprad or romulus or JTS etc. ?

I find the tricross look a lil not for me, kinda cool looking but not my style and i don't see the functionality in its design.

I bought the bike on a recommendation from my boss (an avid rider and triathlete) whom I trust and the reviews that I read online. Since I'm a total newbie to bikes I basically took my LBS's word for a lot of things. However, I doubt that they'd try and screw me because I do work for them (plumbing, HVAC). Anyway, I've been riding the bike for a couple of weeks now and I love it. I'd always been on mountain bikes, cheaper ones at that. The Tricross fits like a glove, at least as far as I know, is very responsive and comfortable. I've gotten it up over 30mph a few times (hill). Overall, I'm very happy with the bike.

sounds cool man. always good to have hookups like that.

I've got that issue with my tricross. It's still under warrenty too I think. All a friend of mine got was different pads. The problem stems from breaks which are two powerful for the fork (so they reckon). I think I'll take it back to the shop. Although I'm about to upgrade the groupset, perhaps I should get this fixed before I do that.

I've also got a Tricross sport. It's forks judder horribly in certain circumstances.

I took the bike back to Evans Cycles where I bought it, and asked what the problem was. The mechanic wandered off for a while and when he came back he explained he'd just spoken to someone at Specialized and that they said they were receiving several reports of problems on this bike, particularly in the XL frame size. The problem is apparently that the brakes are too powerful for the forks, and that the suggested fix is to replace the cantilever brake system with V-brakes.

However, I feel that this is wide of the mark, as the judder can occur under light braking, so you begin to wonder exactly how much braking force Specialized would like to leave you with so that it goes away (perhaps just the rear brake then ;).

I've fitted replacement brake pads and adjusted the toe-in correctly using shims on the leading end of the brake pad. I hoped that a harder compound would not let the brakes bind and grab the rim, but the problem's persisted. I have found, though that my body position makes a difference to how bad the judder is. Take more weight on the pedals and off the bars and the judder is less severe, absent even, than if you take your weight on the bars. Anecdotal evidence, perhaps, but I'd be interested to find out if this works for other people too.

It's not ideal, in fact it's possibly dangerous and Speicalized should be cautious to consider whether people are going to get injured when a set of forks (inevitably) fail. De-powering the brakes isn't really a consideration - if that is their only solution they can buy the bike off me and I'll get something that isn't emasculated.

Cheers

Michael

I've just followed it up the bike shop and they're going to swap the break out for a Deore V Break. They also mentioned something about changing the wheel to make the break feel less plush, I don't see what the wheel has to do with it but there you go.

I have found, though that my body position makes a difference to how bad the judder is. Take more weight on the pedals and off the bars and the judder is less severe, absent even, than if you take your weight on the bars. Anecdotal evidence, perhaps, but I'd be interested to find out if this works for other people too.

I agree that it happens at low speed as well as higher speeds. The problem is that your weight shifts forward when you brake, making it difficult to keep weight over the pedals, especially in emergency braking.

I hope this doesn't suck in the end. The problem is that there is no other Specialized that will do what I want/need, so I couldn't swap the bike out, even in if the LBS would agree to it.

A couple of comments: I have a '06 Tricross Comp and love it so far. I haven't had this issue or created a circumstance where I felt the fork would fail. Is this both '06 and '07 models? Could it be grabby brakes? I'm sure not how the Zertz inserts on the fork are placed, but I did notice them right at the brake bosses, correct? Could it be not the fork itself but the how the Zertz were designed into it?

If indeed there is to be a fork failure, wouldn't it be more likely while ride over rough terrain (big bumps, potholes) then braking?

Not disputing your issues, but trying to throw out some ideas.

Truthfully, I have no idea. I'm taking the word of the mechanic at my LBS. He's been doing it for 15 years, so he definitely knows more than me. I suppose the proof will be in the pudding when I get my new fork installed. It should have come in today, so I hope to take my bike in tomorrow and get it back on Friday. We'll see.

Truthfully, I have no idea. I'm taking the word of the mechanic at my LBS. He's been doing it for 15 years, so he definitely knows more than me. I suppose the proof will be in the pudding when I get my new fork installed. It should have come in today, so I hope to take my bike in tomorrow and get it back on Friday. We'll see.

Good luck! A fork failure could be quite a nasty thing...

Frick! I got my new fork installed today. It turns out they were able to get a fork for the black tricross, so I didn't get the S-Works fork. :( Well, I took the bike out tonight for some errands, and it does the exact same thing! I'm probably in trouble here. It appears to me that this is a design flaw and will be the same no matter what we do. As I've stated, there's no other Specialized that I want. I don't know if the LBS will take the bike back.

Suggestions?

Well as I say, they're fitting a different break to mine, that'll happen on the 6th July so I'll let you know how that goes.

Keep toe-ing the brake shoes in until it stops...

I have a Tricross Comp Triple and front didn't shake or judder, as I've heard some reports on, but she squealed like a stuck pig. Keep toe-ing the brake until it stopped. Works fine, although I'm probably giving up a bit in braking performance.

It's pretty disheartening to see Specialized spec such a crap. Squeaky, shuddering brakes make the whole riding experience so much less fun, not to mention more dangerous.

To the OP - if your LBS isn't able to set up your brakes so that they don't squeal or shudder, you could ask them to give you different pads. If that doesn't fix it, you could see if they'll sell you a different fork at cost. Retail price on carbon cross forks is pretty brutal, but the shop cost shouldn't be so bad. Or, if they won't there's always the Nashbar carbon fork, or Surly steel forks, which might be better, and are way cheaper than Reynolds, Alpha Q, etc. If you end up buying a different fork, you could always sell the other one to offset the cost.

Not sure what's going on here. I've had ZERO brake issues with my fork. The brake spec for the Sport is different than the Comp. Any other Sport riders have this issue? Maybe crappy rims?

I've got a sport, Michael_g has a sport also. Flipped, did you mean any other comp riders have this issue?

Almost sounds like it's eventually going to turn into a safety recall issue to me. Someone's going to brake hard (cuz they have to!), start shuddering violently, and the fork is going to snap in half at the crown right off the bike. :eek: Carbon is only going to give so much. Looks like they spec'd a lighter fork at the expense of rigidity. Bad idea on a carbon fork. There's a reason why they're all beefy. V-brakes on a cross bike? Without a travel agent? Why, just to remove some power from the brake? Yuck. I smell class action lawsuit after the first accident.

Same thing happens on my cross bike, but luckily it's a steel fork. I doubt it will snap in half. I've mitigated it slightly by putting less grippy pads on it, as well as relying on the rear brake for probably 70% of braking power. Still there, but not a big deal to me.

I've got a sport, Michael_g has a sport also. Flipped, did you mean any other comp riders have this issue?

Yes and no. Just trying to find the common variable. I have an '06 Comp, but no issues with my bike at all. From what I can figure, all Sports and Comps whether '06 or '07 have the same fork design. However the brakes are spec'd differently. Not sure that's the issue. It could be the particular production run of the forks. Toe-in?

Mechanic at LBS spoke with Specialized. I now have a new '06 S-works fork on the way. I'm not sure what I'll do, though. I may just tell them forget it, give me an Allez instead. This is a bit ridiculous. Only problem is that I really like the bike, this issue aside. Argh!

Yes and no. Just trying to find the common variable. I have an '06 Comp, but no issues with my bike at all. From what I can figure, all Sports and Comps whether '06 or '07 have the same fork design. However the brakes are spec'd differently. Not sure that's the issue. It could be the particular production run of the forks. Toe-in?

Right, gotcha, what about the wheel, you have different rims on a comp too. The guy at my shop said he'd need to fit a new front wheel (I doubt he'll reuse the hub tbh)

From what I've read elsewhere on the web, the Avid Shorty 4s are supposed to be very squealy (I think reppans mentioned that) with people preferring the Tektros, which is somewhat of Ironic. Are your breaks at all squeaky?

We'll see what the deore V break does when they fit it.

Don't settle for a bike that isn't perfect. My LBS took back a bike from me once without any beef. Those tricross forks do look funky.

Right, gotcha, what about the wheel, you have different rims on a comp too. The guy at my shop said he'd need to fit a new front wheel (I doubt he'll reuse the hub tbh)

From what I've read elsewhere on the web, the Avid Shorty 4s are supposed to be very squealy (I think reppans mentioned that) with people preferring the Tektros, which is somewhat of Ironic. Are your breaks at all squeaky?

We'll see what the deore V break does when they fit it.

The '06 Comp has the Shimano BR550 cantis. Pretty impressed at how powerful they are for cantis hooked up to brifters.

As for the v-brakes, are they installing adapters so the brifters can pull more cable the v-brakes require? Why the new front wheel?

Mechanic at LBS spoke with Specialized. I now have a new '06 S-works fork on the way. I'm not sure what I'll do, though. I may just tell them forget it, give me an Allez instead. This is a bit ridiculous. Only problem is that I really like the bike, this issue aside. Argh!
Can you take a pic or that set up please? I think it might look cool.

Maybe you should try a different fork all together? Hope you get it fixed!

Can you take a pic or that set up please? I think it might look cool.

Yeah, but you also have a grown man with eye makeup as your avatar! :eek: Seriously, though, I'll get some pics when I get the fork. They said two weeks. Specialized was supposed to e-mail me yesterday to let me know if they could take one off the line before it's painted red so that I would have a black one, but they still haven't e-mailed me as the LBS promised.

On the Kona tech website there are customers with similar problems, with the JTS.

http://www.konaworld.com/owners%5Farea/index.php?showtopic=1622&hl=jake+the+snake

I have an older JTS with a Winwood Carbon fork, Vbrakes with Travel agent, no problems. What gives??

By the way its Canada D - eh! Rock me a beer!!!!

Yeah, but you also have a grown man with eye makeup as your avatar! :eek: Seriously, though, I'll get some pics when I get the fork. They said two weeks. Specialized was supposed to e-mail me yesterday to let me know if they could take one off the line before it's painted red so that I would have a black one, but they still haven't e-mailed me as the LBS promised.
Haha its Alice Cooper, old time rocker. When they dressed like girls and some of them sounded like girls :D

Cool I hope you get your bike fixed. I have been wanting a tricross for a very loooong time!

so, I've just picked up my bike from the shop. To recap, I've upgraded to an Ultegra groupset and at the same time they added V-Brakes (with TAs) as per Specializeds recommentdation.

The breaks are alot less powerful and I find myself having to take massive handfulls of break to get any response. I'm not actually sure if I preferred the juddering to these. I'm waiting to see if the pads bed in a bit and the response improves.

I'll keep you updated.

Brake Shake, sounds better than fork shake, isn't uncommon with cheap CF forks. Have you all noticed that Specialized isn't replacing brakes. They're replacing the fork. A really high quality CF fork is expensive. Mfg's are notorious for using cheap parts to have product, not just a bicycle, fit into a certain price point.

On road bike CF forks the brake bolt goes into the fork crown. Most CF forks still use an aluminum crown, steerer and fork tips. On canti/V-brake CF forks, the mounting bosses are AL but there isn't any reinforcement on the actual fork legs.The stress of braking makes those fork legs shake and flex. Imagine what happens when you hit a few bumps. High end CF cross forks don't have that problem. They also cost $300 - $400 each. That's why you don't see them spec'd on a standard Tri Cross. On large frames with heavy riders, that cheap fork is a disaster waiting to happen.

Steel is real isn't just a saying old dinosaurs like to say just to be funny. If you had a steel fork on that bike there wouldn't be any flex at all. It would be heavier though. You make the call. Good luck

Tim

Haha its Alice Cooper, old time rocker. When they dressed like girls and some of them sounded like girls :D

Cool I hope you get your bike fixed. I have been wanting a tricross for a very loooong time!

"Old time rocker" Hell, I bought his albums new when I was in high school. Those punks for Green Day are copying his eye makeup. There truly isn't anything new in the world.

Tim

brakes improving every day, might be ok yet, no juddering to report.

"Old time rocker" Hell, I bought his albums new when I was in high school. Those punks for Green Day are copying his eye makeup. There truly isn't anything new in the world.

Tim
Do you mean Green Tree? They are all tree huging fairy men. ;)


brakes improving every day, might be ok yet, no juddering to report.
Thats great news! :)

"Old time rocker" Hell, I bought his albums new when I was in high school. Those punks for Green Day are copying his eye makeup. There truly isn't anything new in the world.

Tim

I really don't think it's Green Day...

At least it's not, "Carbon Footprint"

The way to sort this without a warranty replacement is to get one of these http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php/product/brakes/pushbrakes/pushbrakespares/BP1272F.html?Fisherpublic=pv5eb8or1kun9h8gkkpoqf2ee2 (it actually points up despite the depiction in the photo), and a longer section of cable outer. Kills the judder instantly. It was explained to me that it has something to do with the length of cable from hanger to brake being too long and some sort of resonance. It's a design flaw of course. I have a Tricross Sport XL.

hmm, cool. Well, I got the call today that the fork came in, so I hope to pick up the bike tomorrow. If that doesn't do it, the piece you recommended is next. I'll have to find it through a US supplier though.

hmm, cool. Well, I got the call today that the fork came in, so I hope to pick up the bike tomorrow. If that doesn't do it, the piece you recommended is next. I'll have to find it through a US supplier though.

I guess any shop that is knowledgable about touring bikes would be the place to go before ordering from the UK and paying shipping etc. - I needed a longer bolt BTW as i have regular mudguards (or whatever you call them over there ;) )bolted to the steerer on mine too (it's my commuter wheels - and Belfast is WET) and the steerer itself is quite thick too, but my LBS was able to hook me up with that with no worries.
Once I got that bit sorted out, I have to say, it's the best thing I've commuted on and I can leave my other bike for the fun things in life :D (for fun I ride this http://www.commencal.com/bike/mtb/2007/pictures/mtb_meta_552.jpg)
Good Luck!

I've read elsewhere that the fix is as far as a set of mini-v brakes away. They do not require travel agents and allegedly work well. V-brakes are not meant for road levers, but mini-v brakes are.

see the fix here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=315885

Perhaps install one of those brake braces that stiffen the brake bosses?

i had the same problem with my tricross ...and i just keep toeing in the brakes
and it seems to be working ...

anyway hope you fix your dillema:(

I got my bike back from the LBS yesterday and...



IT WORKED!!!!

The '06 S-works fork did the trick. Front braking is strong and judder free. The good news is that it's black, instead of red, so it doesn't look too awful on my green frame.

Valpo: glad to hear that your shudder problem is gone. was the fix only the fork? still sing the same brakes/pads/wheels?

i just got a custom build made using a (leftover) '06 sworks tricross frame/fork from my LBS. - I had been reading up on the tricross here on the forum, so prior to making the 'buy' decision I rode the bejeesus out of it and no shudder. So is this known to only happen on the non-S-Works tricross fork? My bike has different wheels and brakes than the production tricross models - maybe a different braking surface and brake make the difference. Is the s-works fork known to be different in design, geometry etc than te production fork?
anyway, glad mine didn't shudder, rode it a bunch today and no problem.

The only new hardware is the fork. I wouldn't mind getting some grippier pads, though. The fork is supposed to be a higher-quality carbon fiber weave. It's a smoother ride too. My bike is finally just the way I want it. I'm pretty psyched!

that great! your first post on this was what, mid june? Thats a long wait, it being summer and all.

yeah, it took about a month for the s-works fork to come in and be installed. Granted, they were on a 3-week backorder, and it took 2 days to ship, so all in all, the LBS did all they could...

Valpo: lucky you! My V-Breaks are doing the trick so no new fork for me :(

Here's a pic...

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1978/tricrossoc1.jpg
By valpo_hawkeye (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/valpo_hawkeye), shot with Canon PowerShot SD800 IS (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=Canon+PowerShot+SD800+IS&make=Canon) at 2007-07-27

Looks nice, goes with your seatpost so it doesn't look at all out of place to my eyes.

I've been running my Tricross now with toed-in brakes for about four weeks now and it's much improved. I originally misunderstood the idea of toe-ing them in: I started with the trailling section of the pad touching down first. This worked for a while until they wore down a bit and then promptly became unusable. Changing the toe-in so the leading section of pad touched down first has almost cleared the problem.

It seems from this experience that the excessive play on the brake mounting post is a significant factor. My brakes show noticeable yaw along the axis of the mounting bolt when manipulating them by hand. This means that the angle between the pad and the rim changes as the brake is applied, effectively rotating the pads forward (ie: the right pad is rotated in a clockwise rotation when seen from above). By toe-ing the brakes in on their leading edge, the angle between pad and rim increases in size, thereby reducing the effective braking surface. This eliminates the judder which is caused by a positive feedback loop.

The lesson here? Specialized should specify brakes which are a good fit for the mounting bolt.

I also did something which will probably make you think I'm crazy, but I cleaned the rims using clear petroleum jelly, and wasn't too dilligent about completely cleaning it off. There's probably still an invisible residue on the rims which lowers the level of bite when I put on the brakes - and yes, they do still stop the bike!

Mike

My Sport is in with the LBS (and Spesh dealer) at the minute, as I decided to let them fix it properly (and in warranty) even though my workaround of the crown-attached cable hanger did a good job - Specialized in the UK are replacing the canti with a v-brake & TA setup as the solution. The LBS's first attempt at a diagnosis was that I must have a loose headset - I wish they wouldn't assume that people were idiots every time they pick up the phone...