General Cycling Discussion - Chicago laws for parking in bike racks

Ok everyone-

This morning, I had a huge fight with a couple on a 50 cc motor scooter who took up our bike spaces (and it is LIMITED PARKING out there right now too!). They claimed it was not against the law for them to park in the bike rack on the sidewalk, but when I called our police non-emergency, the police at first said it was illegal in the City of Chicago, but after the cop came, he claimed it was NOT illegal, and it was the discretion of the property owneres to permit the scooter on the sidewalk to park.

The other property owners told me to write a letter to the property managers, but in the meantime, I needed to find the law for 50 cc motor scooters parking on sidewalks and in bike racks.

The only reason why I am so upset is because the property managers REMOVED a majority of the bike racks (which only really accomodate 2 bikes per rack) for asthetic reasons- and now they're sujecting us to even more ridiculous and cramped conditions by allowing the motor scooter to park in our spots. On any given day, there are up to 6 bikes haphazardly locked to two small sticks protruding out of the sidewalk. This is ridiculous.

Anyone that can help me here- that would be great. I wasted an hour and a half waiting for an answer this morning from law enforcement, only to deal with the we-don't-care-and-we-can't-bother-to-get-involved attitude. I now have to go to work, and I really want to get this letter out of the way before the end of the day today so the matter can be resolved.

I politely tried to explain to the motor scooter people that they take up the space of up to 3 bikes, and that our parking is limited enough already. Their response? "We don't care. All we know is that management gave us permission, and we're going to continue parking here".

@ssholes.

All right... gotta get going to work!

Koffee

A medium sized ice-pick to the rear wheels will prevent all future scooter parking...j/k
Sorry to hear about the problem. However I can't really help.

That's lame !
I say make a hole on the gas tank so when they leave they have hardly any fuel to get home ;) but thats coming from a 17 year old kid so... :D

The solution is not fewer scooters, but more bike racks.

Can you take your bike inside with you?

You're absolutely right FOG. I was kidding.

Well,

here is the IL law on bicycles:

http://www.legis.state.il.us/legislation/ilcs/ch625/ch625act5articles/ch625act5Sub66.htm

in there it says:
"(a) A person may park a bicycle on
a sidewalk unless prohibited or restricted by an official
traffic-control device."

Now, I am not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice.

The crux here, is the definition of that motor scooter. Is it a (motorized) bicycle, or a motorcycle?

If its a motor vehicle, parked on a sidewalk in the city of Chicago then this would apply:

09-64-110(d) Park or Stand on Sidewalk $50.00

which I found here:
http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Revenue/Parking/ParkingViolations.html

"motorized bicycle" here in MO defined as anything under 50cc with under a certain top speed. the IL laws I looked at seemed to hint that to be a motorized bicycle there it has to have pedals.

I tried to find the IL law on what exactly the line is between a motor vehicle and a bicycle but couldn't find anything better than this:

http://moped2.org/plates.txt

So, hope that helped a tad? If it were me and the thing had plates, i'd try to get an officer to write a ticket for the above infraction and let the owner of the vehicle argue in court whats a vehicle and what isnt. If it didn't have plates, i'm not sure what i'd do.

take care,

Steve

EDIT: found this too http://moped2.org/mstates.htm#il which says they must have plates, insurance, etc. but must follow most bicycle laws? hmm, odd rules.

Hmmmm....

Thanks everyone so far...

Jester, the first link you gave-

09-64-110(d) Park or Stand on Sidewalk $50.00

which I found here:
http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Revenue/Par...Violations.html


Is that something you pulled up specifically for motorcycles and mopeds or just for motorized vehicles in general?

Also, the motor scooter was clearly a SCOOTER, so I can't see how they could possibly bend the law for something that is clearly not pedal and motor driven. I will make that point. There is also a problem in that the scooter is 50 cc. I'm not sure if at 50 cc it makes the cut for the moped, or if it's considered something else.

<sigh>

I will probably end up finishing the letter today and run it over in the morning before the manager gets too busy. I want to make sure I can sweet talk the manager and try to get some sympathy in here. The manager for the residents side of the building has total sympathy and thinks it's crazy to allow the scooter to park in a BIKE rack which is supposed to be set up for bikes, but as they don't own the property, they cannot do anything about it. :(

Man, I hate Chicago politics.

Koffee

Originally posted by Koffee Brown

Is that something you pulled up specifically for motorcycles and mopeds or just for motorized vehicles in general?


Just motor vehicles in general it looks like, but i'm not sure there. A motorcycle is definitely a motor vehicle in MO, but here there is a grey area for mopeds as they aren't required to have license plates.

Maybe if you talked to the same cop as earlier or a different one and cited the statute number and said I KNOW its illegal now (yeah, bluff, hehe) they'd ticket them. Or, even better if you saw a cop nearby they might do it more so than one that would have to drive out special to do that?

Everybody hates tickets, so maybe they wouldn't do it again?

Sorry I didn't find an exact answer for ya.

take care,

Steve

Oh, they'll do it again. As long as the management of the building looks the other way and gives them the wink-wink, they'll continue doing it. They said they would.

They were like "what's the matter with you?" when I was talking with them. Truly, they were clueless as to the importance and need for good bike parking in that area.

This morning, when I went out to retrieve my bike, I had to dig underneath two other bike parked ON TOP of mine in their efforts to find space. The other two bike racks were full also, and all the no parking signs had 2 bikes attached to them too.... there's absolutely no place to park.

I thought the major was supposed to be making the city more bike friendly!!?? :confused: :rolleyes:

Koffee

Lock your bike to their scooter. Then say there wasn't any other place to use the BIKE rack.

I really think if I did that, they would just simply ride off with my bike clattering alongside the scooter. No thanks...

Locking someone else's propertycould be construed as theft under Maryland statutes (Maryland has unique theft statutes), and various types of larceny under other state statutes.

Come on FOG, why do you keep ruining my fun...

Buy a cheap chain lock, or a logging chain and heavy lock if you desire, and lock their piece of crap to the bike rack. I am sure that you can see the logic of each approach. I would personally blow $20 on a piece of logging chain and a heavy master lock, just to see them suffer a little.

I really want to solve this in a peaceful way, not in a confrontational way (as it was this morning!). I will try and go the legal route.

I did get an idea from Jester's post, though. His website link to the parking fines came from the Department of Revenue, so I will call the Department of Revenue right away in the morning after class and talk to someone and sweet-talking them into helping me figure out what's legal. The Department of Revenue folks can either be really nice or act like they can't be bothered. I will just act very concerned and friendly and try to gain their sympathy so they will help me out. I will even offer them brownies! ;)

I'll get the truth out of them somehow!

Koffee

I guess the real issue is that there are not enough places to secure bicycles and scoters. Although scoters are motor vehicles, they are energy efficient, which is a plus, but unfortunately easily stolen. I can understand their concern for theft and there is no reason to do anything nasty about it. Some cities, like Toronto for example, have specially made hitching posts for bicycles all over the city centre. These look like a post with a cast metal circle bolted on and will accommodate two or more bikes. You mentioned that this company removed the racks for aesthetic reasons, maybe try to encourage them to reinstall them. Better yet, maybe you, other Chicago Bike Forum members and your local cycling association could try to encourage the city to provide bicycle racks or posts throughout the downtown centre. I can’t see this costing that much money and it encourages people to use their bike and frequent the city centre.

Good luck with this.

Here is what they look like in case your interested.

Thanks Gordon.

We actually do have a lot of bike racks throughout Chicago, but it's just this one location- right at the John Hancock, which is one of the tallest buildings in the city, with both residences and businesses. You'd think they'd need MORE bike racks because of the unusual mix of a lot of businesses, plus the residences, but they are more concerned with looking pretty.

:rolleyes:

If the people with the scooter hadn't behaved in such a nasty manner, I would have come down tomorrow morning and apologized for my brisk behavior and tried to come up with an alternative. As they seemed nasty to me (told me that if there were any scratches or marks on their scooter, they would hold me responsible, even though I said NOTHING threatening or nasty to them about their bike or where they were parking it), I think I will get more personal satisfaction of kicking their selfish, spoiled butts out of the bike rack area.

I think my answer will lie with the Department of Revenue. They don't play over there. They're there to collect the money for the city for infractions committed.

I'm going to write up the letter tonight, then call the city tomorrow and get the real deal from them, then bring it over to the management side for the building and see if I can't catch the manager's eye and talk to him in a civil, concerned manner. He's the one that created the mess in the first place- removing the rack and giving the scooter permission to park there, so he should be the one to solve the problem.

Does that sound reasonable, cause that's how I'm gonna approach him.

P.S. I saw the picture after I posted. We have some of those scattered through the south loop where the business district is heavily concentrated. There are not a lot of them either, and of course, there are more bikes than racks and hooks, so problems arise....

Mayor Daley just needs to push for installation of lots more racks if he keeps pushing this bike summer program he's got.

I know where Daley works out- he's a member at my friend's club. If anything, I'll roll down there and see if I can catch him right at the end of his routine or something like that. Or I'll have a letter delivered to him just as he's leaving.

Koffee

You'd think they'd need MORE bike racks because of the unusual mix of a lot of businesses, plus the residences, but they are more concerned with looking pretty.

When I was in Chicago last year, I remember some areas are treated as high security zones; maybe the removal had something to do with that. Anyway, I think your approach sounds reasonable. Just one question, is this rack on public or private property?

Nah- the security of the building told me personally when I asked that they removed the bike racks to put the flower beds in. No security issues whatsoever.

The racks are on property owned by the people who own the John Hancock, but the laws concerning who may park on a sidewalk and who may not are governed by the city of Chicago, whether public or private property.

I have read through your posts and I don't see where you mention how much you paid for the bike rack.

I am having trouble understanding why you feel you have more of a right to use it than the scooter does?

Because it is a BIKE RACK, not a SCOOTER RACK.

As such, we have MORE RIGHTS to use the rack.

Besides that, motorized vehicles have NO BUSINESS on the bike racks- and as I said before, bikes have LIMITED ACCESS for parking as it is right now. It is truly the worst situation I've seen in downtown Chicago... the rack is just 2 sticks protruding out of the ground, and 2 BIKES are supposed to share the racks, and even when there are two bikes there, it is difficult for the two bikes to line up opposite each other... and most times, there are up to SIX bikes using racks meant for TWO. There is a SEVERE SHORTAGE OF BIKE PARKING AT THE BUILDING, AND THE MANAGEMENT CHOSE TO LIMIT OUR PARKING EVEN FURTHER BY ALLOWING THIS MOTOR SCOOTER TO PARK IN OUR LIMITED SPACES. This scooter can also park in other places where there is room for the scooter, but the owners are TOO CHEAP to park in the parking garage, and TOO LAZY to take their scooter around the corner and park on the side of the building, which is much more user friendly for them rather than us.

Again, this is a BIKE RACK NOT A SCOOTER RACK. Is that clear enough for you?

I am going to P.S. that post by stating that this BIKE RACK was made for bicycle useage, not for SCOOTER useage. If it was made for a scooter, I'm sure they'd be calling it a SCOOTER RACK, not a BIKE RACK.

How would anyone like it if I parked my bike in a parking spot so that a car couldn't get in and park in a place with limited parking spaces? How is that fair for the car? And yet, we are expected to step aside so that one scooter can take up the space of the three bikes that normally fight for that space?

At the very least, it's inefficient. At the most, it's NOT the useage that the bike rack was built OR installed for.

Koffee,
I think that you got trolled. ;)

I remember when they removed the bike racks from Cavill Mall in Surfers Paradise. I remember my response (on the rare occasions I actually go there) was to ride my old beater bike and simply find something else in the area to lock it to. It kinda made a mockery of their whole "looking pretty" argument. I also remember that last time I visited that area (about August 2002), the bike racks had been put back. Sometimes a little subtle persuasion can work wonders.

Originally posted by Chris L
I remember my response (on the rare occasions I actually go there) was to ride my old beater bike and simply find something else in the area to lock it to.

Like the handle to the front door? ;)

I sure wish I could just park my bike anywhere, but the management is totally apathetic. They send their goon guards out if they see you parking your bike anywhere else and forcibly tell you to remove your bike or they will get a lock cutter and cut the lock and remove the bike themselves.

To me, it sounds like you are on the right track. Of course, slashing tires would feel good. However, what would stop them from slashing your tires when you park in the bike rack.

I like the idea about getting in the Mayor's ear. From what I see, Mayor Daly is quite fond of bicycle transportation.

I could see it now, "Koffee v/s the city of Chicago."

No, it would be Koffee and the city of Chicago vs. the Hancock management!

I finished the rather verbose letter, and I will be walking it over to the management tomorrow morning after I teach class. I am just keeping my fingers crossed- I forgot a lot of people are off work tomorrow because we always start celebrating Independance Day on July 3rd. The best case scenario would be that the guy is a workaholic and will be there in the morning, and due to the lack of businesses open, he will have less work to do, which means I can sneak in there and sit down with a cup of coffee and have a decent conversation with him and plead my case out personally.

Please everyone, keep your fingers crossed for me!

Koffee

Good luck!

Scooters/mopeds do seem to be proliferating over here. I've not got a problem with them apart from that it's getting harder to park at the local supermarket - then again my trailer takes up a fair bit of room...

KB

Your real problem is with the building management (seems like all problems start with managers) not really the scooter folks. Sounds like you all need places to park 2 wheers. It's too bad they acted like clutzes.

Joe

Yeah, that's why I wrote this long, passionate letter to the building manager. The resident building manager agrees with me, by the way. I just think the building manager of the business side never even though t about bikes- so I will go there and speak with him personally.

In the event this letter does not sway the manager, I will forward a copy to the League of Bicyclists, the Chicagoland Bicycle Federation, and Critical Mass, as well as track down Mayor Daley and get him a copy also. This is stated in my letter to him.

He has to think that it would be easier to accomodate cyclists after this letter rather than deal with the potential mess of other organizations getting involved over one bad decision with regards to a scooter!

I'll report back later in the day if I got the chance to talk to the guy.

Koffee

Koffee, I actually thought I'd try to contribute something constructive here. When you talk to the DOR, mention that the scooter does not have a City Sticker, which are required for all MOTOR VEHICLES in Chicago.

http://www.chicityclerk.com/legislation/codes/chapter3_56.pdf

Hey, Koffee, here's a thought: take some photos of the overcrowded and misused bike racks to show the management types. Let them see the ugly jumble of bikes on the limited number of bike racks in front of their building. Show them that more racks are needed. Also take a photo of the offending scooter. A picture is worth a thousand words, and hitting them over the head with a two by four is illegal.

Good luck!

Originally posted by TJBrass
Koffee, I actually thought I'd try to contribute something constructive here. When you talk to the DOR, mention that the scooter does not have a City Sticker, which are required for all MOTOR VEHICLES in Chicago.

http://www.chicityclerk.com/legislation/codes/chapter3_56.pdf

Koffee,

TJ brass' link would appear to have the answer to your quandry :)

it says:

"Moped" means a vehicle capable of being powered by either the muscular power of man or as a motor vehicle at the discretion of the operator....

"motor vehicle" Means any vehicle propelled otherwise than by the muscular power of man or animal, except such as run on rails and tracks.

What that means to me is (and I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice) a scooter with no pedals is a motor vehicle. therefore, any vehicle not capable of being powered by a human is not allowed on the sidewalk. If they had a moped, it could possibly be a grey area, but as far as chicago is concerned if propulsion can't be human it will never be a bicycle, or allowed to park on sidewalks under the auspices of laws governing bicycles.

In other words, it would seem to me that they are illegally parked and subject to ticketing and/or towing.

take care,

Steve

I just got back from the meeting with the manager of the building.

What I did come away with was that the management will try to ease up on the congestion by installing another rack on the west end of the building. The guy also said that he really couldn't stop the woman from parking her scooter there, as it is the right of the woman to park in a bike rack, since the scooter has two wheels instead of four, and according to the city, there are no regulations against two wheeled vehicles parking to bike racks.

I explained that I thought the spirit of the rack was to allow for more bike parking, not for scooter parking, or else it would be a designated scooter rack, not a bike rack. He understood, and asked me about parking on the side of the building with the light metal racks where you just insert your wheel into the wheel slot. I told him that would be inadequate, as the racks are so light, anyone can pick the rack up and walk off with it. He had no idea those temporary racks were so lightweight. He said those racks could not be secured to the building, as the area they are located in are also used by trucks from time to time, and that throughway needs to stay clear for the delivery trucks. I explained to him how easy it would be for any thief to simply unlock the wheel from the bike and walk away with the frame, or simply get a small lock cutter and snap the metal, taking the entire bike and wheel. He had no idea the metal was that flimsy either.

He also said that he tried to talk to the Chicagoland Bike Federation, but the guy there was pretty unwilling to work with the guidelines set forth by the alderman of the city (the building needs to look as beautiful as possible because it is a cornerstone of the Gold Coast), as well as the owners of the city. The CBF wanted to put in racks that would not meet the guidelines set forth, and the CBF also wanted the racks to be installed in places along the front of the building where the alderman and owners stated the racks could NOT go. In addition, he said the CBF would not work with him to find a solution that would work for the Hancock and accomodate the demands of the alderman and owners.

Also, he said they were unprepared for the staggering amounts of cyclists coming into the city, and our building is the only building everyone is requiring bike racks to be installed at, while other buildings in the area have no bike racks. So now our building must accomodate not only the residents and building tentants, we have to accomodate for all the shoppers, kids, and neighboring buildings' bikes too. This doesn't seem very fair....

He said he would try to speak with the owner of the scooter. He had no idea the woman was leaving the scooter overnight and moving it in the morning after the first rush hour of bikes came through. He thought she was using the rack to park her bike to and she was coming and going. He stated that this would not work, and he would offer use of the bike room for her to park her scooter in, but knowing how nasty that woman was, I doubt it. For the record, the manager did state that he thought she was being cheap by parking at the racks overnight, since she could park in the building and pay a fee. I told the manager that there were a number of buildings with parking in the area she could park at, and she could park on the street, so she has plenty of options. As bikes have limited options, they should have first crack at the racks. He said he would speak with her, but yada yada yada.... it's her right to park at the rack because she has two wheels.

He seemed sympathetic to what I was saying. I had the letter I wrote, and I gave it to him, and it basically laid out my frustrations with the situation. Apparently, someone else called him yesterday too complaining about the situation. I think it's impressed upon him that things are a mess down there.

One thing I do understand from this is that the flowerbeds installed down there are partly security measures to prevent cars from plowing into the building, so the bike racks on the south side of the building had to be removed to accomodate for the security measures taken. At the same time, it's a catch-22, because you just create a bad situation from a bad situation. There has to be a breaking point here, and I think if everyone just gives a little, we can get a lot more than we're getting right now.

<sigh>

We'll just have to take the wait and see, and in the meantime, I'm going to call CBF to see if they can work with the management within the confines given to them by the alderman and the owners. I will follow through with this matter with the manager.

Some progress, but we'll see where it goes in the coming weeks and months...

Koffee

Originally posted by Koffee Brown

The guy also said that he really couldn't stop the woman from parking her scooter there, as it is the right of the woman to park in a bike rack, since the scooter has two wheels instead of four, and according to the city, there are no regulations against two wheeled vehicles parking to bike racks.


Good luck with it all Koffee. I have found another link to the exact laws governing the city of chicago, and I can't find anything saying the number of wheels makes a difference. The law says:


9-64-110 Parking prohibited--Roadways, sidewalks, bridges and similar locations.

It shall be unlawful to stand or park any vehicle in any of the following places:

(d) On a sidewalk;

( here is a link to the laws (http://livepublish.municode.com/10/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-hit-j.htm&2.0) )


I found the other law specifically exempting bicycles, but nothing about two vs four wheels gets a motor vehicle on the sidewalks.

anyway, I think the building manager maybe doesnt know the law, i'd ask someone in the know to point out the exact statute that exempts scooters & motorcycles from 9-64-110. There is a specific exemption for bicycles, ( 9-52-070 ) allowing them sidewalk parking, but nothing I could find for scooters. Given that we found a legal definition that a scooter is a vehicle, I can't see any way it is legal for them to park there, unless the area in question isnt a legally required sidewalk but a private one.

anyhow, good luck with it.

take care,

Steve

P.S. I'll say it again, I am not a lawyer and nothing I have written here is legal advice. (I keep saying that because there are strong laws against legal advice without getting a law degree and passing a bar exam, so I want to make it clear that any statements I make are a laymans effort.)

Oh yeah-

The most important part of the conversation- the John Hancock is PRIVATE property- and under the private property, the guy said he couldn't stop the scooter from parking there.

What he did say was that he would offer up the bike room as an area for the scooter to park. I actually don't think the scooter should be OFFERED anyplace to park except the street or a parking garage. Otherwise, they should find some alley to slink down.

I called the local non-emergency police department again, and they said that there was NOTHING I could do about this- it was perfectly legal for that scooter to park on the sidewalk, which I still think they are wrong about...

A couple of ideas:

1. Would it be possible to embed some metal bars on the flower planters on the side facing the building? These would not show from the street and so would not affect the image of the building yet would allow bikes to be locked up.

2. Get some beater bikes and lock up on the bike rack when the scooter leaves. A couple days without access to the bike rack might persuade the scooter owner to find alternate parking.

3. A less legal approach. Get some kind of sticker (the more offensive the better) and affix it to the scooter while casually walking past. After having to remove several of the stickers, the owner might decide to find a more secure parking spot.

Actually, I like the second option A LOT... but it would have to be timed with when the other bikes would be leaving for the day and before the woman on the scooter arrived in the evening. I have an old beater bike out in the south side someplace that I can have my sister bring up and tie it to the bike rack at night. But that's only one bike, and I would still need another bike for the other bike rack, or tie up my bike until late evening, then go back downstairs and move my bike back to the bike room later on.

This is SUCH a pain in the butt!

Aaaaaugh!

Ok, first, I'm not being a troll. Maybe "devil's advocate". Or maybe I'm just trying to see things from different perspectives and understand the perspectives of others.


Originally posted by Koffee Brown
I explained that I thought the spirit of the rack was to allow for more bike parking, not for scooter parking, or else it would be a designated scooter rack, not a bike rack.

Is it actually labelled as a bicycle rack? If not, and if it's a private rack on private property, and the installers of the rack have no problems with scooters parking there, why wouldn't a scooter owner EXPECT to be able to park there, just as you expect to be able to park your bike there?




For the record, the manager did state that he thought she was being cheap by parking at the racks overnight, since she could park in the building and pay a fee. I told the manager that there were a number of buildings with parking in the area she could park at, and she could park on the street, so she has plenty of options. As bikes have limited options, they should have first crack at the racks.


Why do bikes have more limited options? Couldn't you park your bike in the building and pay a fee? Couldn't you park it on the street? You say you don't want to park at the cheap bike rack because someone could just carry off the rack. Couldn't someone just as easily carry off an unsecured scooter? (this assumes they're actually locking the scooter to the rack)

Anyway, it sounds like your parking situation sucks, and I do sympathize. But maybe the scooter owner also thinks the parking situation sucks, and it almost seems like you'd be better off joining forces to get more overall parking for the both of you than making it you vs. the scooter.

We can bring our bike in the building, but it takes an average of ten minutes to get the bike up the stairs. That's just UP the stairs, mind you. Lots of security measures to work around.

We can't park it in the street- there are no meters around the building, and also, if we try to lock it to signs or metal structures, the management comes and cuts the locks and comfiscates the bikes. The security patrols the area, and they are under order from the management to remove bikes from anything that is not a bike rack.

The rack is called a BIKE RACK. I confirmed it with the management the day of my meeting with them. Looking at the design of the bike rack, it is also clear that the rack was built for bike useage.

Even if someone can carry off a scooter, it is still easier for someone to carry off an unsecured bike. The bike racks are made and designed for bikes because of the fact that bikes are easily stolen. There are thousands of scooters and motorcycles in Chicago, and although I don't have the statistics, I'm willing to wager my life that if you looked at the amount of scooters stolen vs. the amount of bikes stolen, there are MANY more bikes stolen than scooters stolen. Therefore, the need is for more and better security for bikes, not scooters.

The person who owns the scooter has not even tried to see if the parking situation for scooters sucks. Since the first day she got the scooter, she simply has driven up onto the sidewalk and locked her scooter to the bike rack, walked her lazy butt into the building, and taken the elevator to her apartment to enjoy the rest of her non-active evening. There is no attempt for her to look for parking on the street because she is simply too lazy to walk that extra block or so to park her scooter. Everyone knows that there's no parking for vehicles in the one block radius around our building due to security measures unless you pay the extra to park in the garage, and she will not pay the money to park in the garage, even though that is the most secure place for her to park- it is more secure than parking on the sidewalk in the bike rack because of camera security, and because there are guards in the parking structure. If she was that concerned about security and having her scooter stolen, she would pay that extra money and park in the parking lot. She is just being lazy and cheap by parking in the BIKE racks.

I see no reason to join forces with this woman. She has plenty of parking options, while bikes are treated as eyesores and inconveniences to be tolerated.

Please dont flame me for this, I dont live in a big city and really am just trying to help.

How about talking the manager into installing bike racks in the parking garage? Then you get additional security of being inside to help prevent bike theft, you are in a garage already so they wont be as upset about how it looks and you can put lots of bikes in the space for one car, or even in the spaces where cars cant park.

Allan

Bike racks in the parking garage would be impossible.... they have such tight security regulations for the cars- I don't think they would tolerate having to stop every cyclist and checking their person also. They already have to stop every car that enters and exits and search their car and trunk and ask them to state the nature of their business, as well as check for parking passes, etc. Security has enough to deal with already. I don't think they can burden the security guards either.

Also, our parking garage has a funky entrance- once you enter the ramp, it literally loops and turns up six straight flights outdoors before you reach the actual entrance of the building. I could make it up there, and probably some of the more serious cyclists, but aack! Recreational cyclists would have a difficult time ascending such a steep, fast climb. And coming down, there's a lot of blind spots as you're turning the corners- there is a strict 5 mile per hour that is enforced whether you're coming up or going down- doesn't matter if you're a car, scooter, or cyclist.

The actual parking structure itself does not really support cycling into or out of the parking area, unfortunately.

Koffee

First off they wouldnt need to search the bikes as there are no trunks. Next, searching the cyclists persons? Do the remove the drivers from the cars and search their pockets? So I assume they would need to only check passes and make sure you arent carrying anything large enough to pose a threat.

As for the uphill climb, that does pose a problem. How about getting the manager to install scooter racks in the garage and requireing all motorized vehicles to park there, regardless of the number of wheels? You could even ask him to give a price reduction for permits to the scooters because so many can be parked in such a small space. That might appeal to the scooter chick in question.

Allan

Nah- they'd search us. The John Hancock building is under a constant security check. Just because we're cyclists, doesn't mean we wouldn't be subject to the same stringent security measures of a car. I imagine they would probably do a visual check of our person, and if we're carrying bags and such, we'd be subjected to a search of our bags. It makes sense. I live in there, and I expect every security guard to do their job and search every person entering and exiting- the parking garage is one of our vulnerable points.

Having said that, I'd be pretty freakin' irritated if they had to check my bags every time I entered and left the building. I live there, and I do bring things into and out of the building. I know it's necessary for them to do, but I'd be freakin' irritated all the same. I usually avoid going into the building unless I use the residents' entrance, as residents are not searched if we enter through our own doors.

By the way- from time to time, the security guards do require the passengers of the cars to get out while they do a full search of the car. So it would be realistic of them to spot check cyclists in this manner too.

The manager of the building said that scooters are already welcome to park in the building in the garage. The scooter chick is too cheap to pay the fee to park in the building. Ironic that it would be more convenient for her anyway, as once she parked, she would simply take the residents elevators from the 6th floor to the 44th floor before tranferring to the elevators that take you to your condos. It would cut out several minutes of her day. She doesn't want to pay for it, that's all.

Koffee;
Move to Tulsa, and the entire problem goes away.