Utility Cycling - What's up with the low riders?

I notice that most of the utility cyclists around here ride with their saddles in a very low position. Their legs are at a fairly sharp angle even when the pedal is at six o'clock.

What's up with that?

At least they're low riders, and not those "one of a million" "riced out" Jap bikes! :D

I notice that most of the utility cyclists around here ride with their saddles in a very low position. Their legs are at a fairly sharp angle even when the pedal is at six o'clock.

What's up with that?
Probably don't know any better or are afraid of falling. I tried to get one of the guys (UC) that I speak with on a regular basis to raise his saddle a bit, but he would have none of it. We also have a guy that rides around town on a Schwinn Deluxe 7 (http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=631) and has the saddle on the low side for my taste. To each their own I guess. But it would greatly increase their comfort and efficiency...

Aaron:)

There seem to be a lot of younger (as in high school/college age) riders around here that put their saddles so low their knees are nearly hitting their chins. I can't figure it out at all - the bikes are MTB types, and the frames look many sizes too small for the riders (standover would put the top tube about 3" above their knees). The only thing I can think of is that it's a kind of attempt at a return to the BMX bikes of my own youth...

One brand marketed at younger people is the Electra Townie which is a type of cruiser that lets you keep your feet on the ground as you sit in the saddle. I've seen ads for them in Bicycling Magazine and they tend to promote it to younger type who wear baggie clothes. They look a little like chopper motorcycles. Nice bike until you try to get up a hill.

Maybe Electra knows something about these kids...

There seem to be a lot of younger (as in high school/college age) riders around here that put their saddles so low their knees are nearly hitting their chins. I can't figure it out at all - the bikes are MTB types, and the frames look many sizes too small for the riders (standover would put the top tube about 3" above their knees). The only thing I can think of is that it's a kind of attempt at a return to the BMX bikes of my own youth... Well I think a lot of those with small frames are BMX bikes. You really can't sit down on them to ride, but they're stunt bikes and intended to be ridden like that. You stand up and ride in a single speed with a freewheel. Not very fast or comfortable for a long ride, but TOEHO.

I was thinking more of the people I see riding adult-size MTBs and hybrids or comfort bikes with the seats in their lowest position....

Many people don't realize they can adjust the seat and that they are crushing their knees. Many people are also riding frames too big for them.

We also have a guy that rides around town on a Schwinn Deluxe 7 (http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=631) and has the saddle on the low side for my taste. To each their own I guess. But it would greatly increase their comfort and efficiency...

We have a guy with a similar bike in town - me. But I changed the saddle and raised it. Built for Comfort, not Speed.

^^^ Pink fuzzy dice!!!!

:love:

'nother thought...the bike may be...ahh freshly liberated and they haven't had time to put the seat up yet;) ILTB, nice ride. I have been seriously considering getting a Schwinn Classic 3 (http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=770) in Red and putting the humongous Wald baskets on it to use around the town where my wife's shop is at. The town is pretty flat with just a couple of minor hills. I am sure I will have an equal or possibly greater amount of seatpost showing:D In my paper route years I had a Yellow Schwinn Heavy Duty that I rode to the grocery store on occasion and a Schwinn Sprint for cruising with the ladies and riding to church on Sundays:D

Aaron:)

As someone who teaches adults ride bikes (from complete beginners to people who want to commute, tour etc.), I find it amazing how many people who can balance the bike while sitting on the seat are not comfortable with standing on the pedals. Their butts stay glued to the seat: the skill of lifting their weight off the saddle and transferring it to the pedals is something they do not possess and find very difficult to acquire. As a result they ride with saddles low enough to be able to touch the ground with both feet when sitting on the saddle.

Then there are people who don't even know you can adjust saddle height.

Oh yeah, and the kids who lower the seat all the way 'cause it's "cool" (really just very stupid, but then a lot of "cool" things are...)

.... I find it amazing how many people who can balance the bike while sitting on the seat are not comfortable with standing on the pedals. Their butts stay glued to the seat: the skill of lifting their weight off the saddle and transferring it to the pedals is something they do not possess and find very difficult to acquire.
I must admit that I'm not very adept at standing on the pedals to ride. Do you have any suggestions for developing this skill?

[QUOTE=Roody]I must admit that I'm not very adept at standing on the pedals to ride. Do you have any suggestions for developing this skill?[/

[QUOTE=Roody]I must admit that I'm not very adept at standing on the pedals to ride. Do you have any suggestions for developing this skill?[/

Oops, sorry...I was going to say "Just stand up" ;) , but when you do, make sure you're not rolling so slowly that you lose control, in other words, keep moving and hold onto the handle bars with a relaxed, but steady grip, peddles horizontal to the ground, then as you get braver, try a few rotations of the peddles/cranks, it won't take long to master it.

Thanks, Steve! I'll give it a try. :)

I saw several BMX bikes at the store today being used as really crappy utility bikes. It seems to be yet another example of style over sanity. Like wearing your pants around your knees and hiking your underwear up.

I saw several BMX bikes at the store today being used as really crappy utility bikes. It seems to be yet another example of style over sanity. Like wearing your pants around your knees and hiking your underwear up.I would be sore and miserable if I tried to ride one of those things for more than a block! Especially if I was wearing baggy jeans and court shoes. :eek:

But keep in mind that those BMX bikes can do things that our big bikes can't do, and some of those scruffy riders have amazing skills.

Years ago, long before I started riding, there was an ice storm late one night. I was going to drive my friend Tony across town with his little BMX bike. He decided he wanted to ride in the ice storm instead. I followed in my car as Tony maneuvered his bike on those icy streets:

doing donuts in the left turn lane, block-long skids with his wheels locked, roostertails and wheelies in the slush.

It was like watching ballet on wheels crossed with slalom skiing! I'll never forget it, and he couldn't have done that death-defying ice ride on any other type of bike. :)

I notice that most of the utility cyclists around here ride with their saddles in a very low position. Their legs are at a fairly sharp angle even when the pedal is at six o'clock.

What's up with that?

I find that low saddle position is inefficient and tiring. I always raise the saddle to the point that my leg is vertical with the seat post when pedalling. But these cyclists with the low saddle position are not real serious with their cycling since the farthest that they probably ride is a block or two around the neighborhood.

The very low saddle position is pretty bad relative to a well-set-up bicycle, but people make transportation choices that are even more ridiculous. They're still probably faster than a segway or a razor scooter, or even one of those silly 2-stroke gas (or electric) razor-style scooters. And I saw somebody driving a car in my neighborhood that had a crazy amount of engine knocking going on, was trailing a cloud of blue smoke, and didn't seem capable of going faster than a bike.

I kind of wish there was a law allowing the police to revoke a car's "pass" on the emissions test based on the fact that the car is leaving a clearly visible and smellable trail in the air.

As someone who teaches adults ride bikes (from complete beginners to people who want to commute, tour etc.), I find it amazing how many people who can balance the bike while sitting on the seat are not comfortable with standing on the pedals. Their butts stay glued to the seat: the skill of lifting their weight off the saddle and transferring it to the pedals is something they do not possess and find very difficult to acquire.

I find it difficult to acquire. But then again, I have balance problems as a hangover from my years of morbid obesity.

I can only stand up and pedal for a few strokes before I need to get back down on the saddle to maintain balance.

Anyway, my bike's saddle is all the way down... but I find that I get pretty good leg extension. Funny thing is, I CAN touch the ground when on the saddle. (Although, I have big feet...) I might try adjusting it up, if the seatpost isn't stuck... However, that'll cancel out me adjusting the stem up to reduce weight on my hands... *sigh*

I can only stand up and pedal for a few strokes before I need to get back down on the saddle to maintain balance.

Anyway, my bike's saddle is all the way down... but I find that I get pretty good leg extension. Funny thing is, I CAN touch the ground when on the saddle. (Although, I have big feet...) I might try adjusting it up, if the seatpost isn't stuck... However, that'll cancel out me adjusting the stem up to reduce weight on my hands... *sigh*
All the more reason to ride old school bikes, where the stem is ABOVE the saddle. The pressure on the hands along with general stiffness is one of the main reasons I have gotten back to riding the older style of bikes where the handlebars are at a nice reachable level. Most of my regularly ridden bikes have the very upright positioning, not the most aerodynamic but then again I am not competing in the Tour de France;) :p

Aaron:)

Low Rid-er Rides A Little Lower

Take a little trip, take a little trip with me LOL

The very low saddle position is pretty bad relative to a well-set-up bicycle, but people make transportation choices that are even more ridiculous. They're still probably faster than a segway or a razor scooter, or even one of those silly 2-stroke gas (or electric) razor-style scooters. And I saw somebody driving a car in my neighborhood that had a crazy amount of engine knocking going on, was

I kind of wish there was a law allowing the police to revoke a car's "pass" on the emissions test based on the fact that the car is leaving a clearly visible and smellable trail in the air.

Here in Cali, an excessive smoke ticket is fairly close to having an vehicle emissions revocation, and usually ends up being a death sentence for a lot of older cars, since the cost to fix the vehicle usually ends up exceeding the value of the car. There was a phase when young drivers of heavily modified diesel powered trucks found amusement in enveloping me and my bicycle in large cloud of black smoke when leaving an intersection, but I no longer see that happening anymore either.

All the more reason to ride old school bikes, where the stem is ABOVE the saddle. The pressure on the hands along with general stiffness is one of the main reasons I have gotten back to riding the older style of bikes where the handlebars are at a nice reachable level. Most of my regularly ridden bikes have the very upright positioning, not the most aerodynamic but then again I am not competing in the Tour de France;) :p

Aaron:)
My bike is a 22 year old entry-level road bike. :)

With that adjustment, I've got a good position overall. I think why it works so well is actually because the frame is too big for me - I haven't measured it, I believe it's a 60cm frame - but it's got old geometry, and where everything's adjusted now is a great compromise between speed and comfort.

^^^ Pink fuzzy dice!!!!

:love:
Pink to you; red for me.:)

Pink to you; red for me.:)
At any rate, it was so nice of you to give the guy a cool saddle and adjust it properly. :)

How come you can't be that nice to us?

I must admit that I'm not very adept at standing on the pedals to ride. Do you have any suggestions for developing this skill?
IMO standing on pedals for extra power (unless in a race) indicates a lack of cycling skill, or at least a lack of ability to know when to adapt/adjust riding pace and/or adjust gearing and cadence for conserving energy for differing cycling terrain. I can stand on pedals if I want to, but haven't wanted to in decades.

a lack of ability to know when to adapt/adjust riding pace and/or adjust gearing and cadence for conserving energy for differing cycling terrain.

Or a lack of ability to adjust gearing. (Read: you don't have a triple or a compact double.)

There's times where I've certainly wanted to stand up and pedal on steep hills (40/28 is as good as it gets on my bike,) but I SUCK at it.

IMO standing on pedals for extra power (unless in a race) indicates a lack of cycling skill, or at least a lack of ability to know when to adapt/adjust riding pace and/or adjust gearing and cadence for conserving energy for differing cycling terrain. I can stand on pedals if I want too, but haven't wanted to in decades.
Also, I think you develop better leg strength if you don't stand. Nevertheless, I'd like to be able to do it, even if I rarely chose to. Once in a while, like needing quick speed when climbing, it would come in handy....

At any rate, it was so nice of you to give the guy a cool saddle and adjust it properly. :)

How come you can't be that nice to us?
The guy I fixed the bike for is a prince and deserving of the special attention.

I am nice to m y comrades here on BF. I give good credible advice/ critical analysis all da time. But some of the stubborn dogmatists and ideological dreamers get all hot under the collar when their pet oxes are gored by pointed barbs of reality.

Or a lack of ability to adjust gearing. (Read: you don't have a triple or a compact double.)
If better gearing than available is frequently needed or desired, IMO, a skillful/knowledgeable cyclist will obtain the proper equipment rather than make do.

True, true. However, it could also be used to gain strength - I'm beginning to be able to ride steeper hills with the 40/28, without having to stop to walk it, or need to get out of the saddle.

Also, what about the FG/SS people? :eek:

(And, I might have an excuse to get a triple... the large chainring bent again, and it's riveted, so that means new crankset time, as soon as I can.)

True, true. However, it could also be used to gain strength - I'm beginning to be able to ride steeper hills with the 40/28, without having to stop to walk it, or need to get out of the saddle.

Also, what about the FG/SS people? :eek:
Sure, lack of gears could improve strength training; and if that is your goal in cycling, go for it. So could under inflated tires, dragging brakes or over tight bearings. Or carrying cinder blocks in a back pack too. My goal is to make cycling as enjoyable and as easy as possible, my needs for comfort and ease outweigh any need for maximizing speed or strength training. A skillful/knowledgeable cyclist will get the equipment/use the techniques that fulfill their personal requirements and won't be swayed by the Conventional Wisdom.

As far as Fixed gear folk; if some people like to make life more difficult for themselves, or like to be different as a mark of honor, or enjoy masochistic pleasures, who am I to deny their fun?

IMO standing on pedals for extra power (unless in a race) indicates a lack of cycling skill, or at least a lack of ability to know when to adapt/adjust riding pace and/or adjust gearing and cadence for conserving energy for differing cycling terrain. I can stand on pedals if I want to, but haven't wanted to in decades.

Hello, my name is dynodonn, and I stand on the pedals for extra power.


Looks like I'm going to have to do as my children did on one of their toys when they were very young, learn to just sit and spin. :p

Probably don't know any better or are afraid of falling. I tried to get one of the guys (UC) that I speak with on a regular basis to raise his saddle a bit, but he would have none of it. We also have a guy that rides around town on a Schwinn Deluxe 7 (http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=631) and has the saddle on the low side for my taste. To each their own I guess. But it would greatly increase their comfort and efficiency...
The matter here is saddle comfort: if the saddle is "too low", then the rider can slide back and sit more on the wider rear portion of the saddle. If the saddle is higher, then the leg position forces the rider to scoot forward, riding on the nose, and that tends to cause pain.
~

The matter here is saddle comfort: if the saddle is "too low", then the rider can slide back and sit more on the wider rear portion of the saddle. If the saddle is higher, then the leg position forces the rider to scoot forward, riding on the nose, and that tends to cause pain.
~
Well that makes sense. But actually, if the saddle's higher you're putting more force on the pedals. That means less weight on the saddle, and less pressure on the rider's perineum. Also, with more efficient transfer of power with a higher saddle, your muscles are doing less work to achieve the same speed. Therefore, you get less tired and put less stress on the hips, knees and feet.

I just keep thinking, if they tried it with a higher saddle, they would be happier and ride more.

Tried raising it, seatpost is quite stuck for vertical movement. Side to side, no problem, but that doesn't help me. :rolleyes:

Anyway, as it is now, I can keep up a nice high cadence and BARELY bounce. Going to a normal cadence, none whatsoever.

Hello, my name is dynodonn, and I stand on the pedals for extra power.

"Extra power" by standing on the pedals sound an awful lot like "extra effort," since the engine capability hasn't been changed. Proper gear selection could give you extra power with less effort. If you are in a self imposed race to get to the top of a hill a few seconds quicker maybe standing will help you "win." To each their own.

"Extra power" by standing on the pedals sound an awful lot like "extra effort," since the engine capability hasn't been changed. Proper gear selection could give you extra power with less effort. If you are in a self imposed race to get to the top of a hill a few seconds quicker maybe standing will help you "win." To each their own.
Some of us like to go fast even when we're not in a hurry.

Ride easy, old man.

Some of us like to go fast even when we're not in a hurry.

Ride easy, old man.

Yeah, even though I'm pretty much a slow lane VC, I can't help hotrodding it a bit every now and then just for fun.

IMO standing on pedals for extra power (unless in a race) indicates a lack of cycling skill, or at least a lack of ability to know when to adapt/adjust riding pace and/or adjust gearing and cadence for conserving energy for differing cycling terrain. That's just silly. Different things work for different people. Funny how you always pounce on "self-proclaimed experts" preaching their views as the only correct ones, and yet do exact same thing...

But anyway I was not even talking about standing on pedals for extra power, just for a proper dismount... People who can't do that end up having the seat low enough to touch the ground with their feet, which usually means they'd have it too low.

Anyhow, for those who want to learn standing up on pedals, all I can say is "practice". For some it's easier to do at first when the cranks are horizontal, and others find it that they prefer to keep one pedal down and put most of the weight on one pedal. Once you managed to coast while standing on pedals for a bit, try a few revolutions. Make sure the gear is not too low - it's good to have some pedal feedback, helps with balancing. But also make sure the gear is not so high that you're really struggling trying to push the pedal down. And as with any kind of bike riding, faster means easier to balance (up to a point anyhow :)).

Thanks for the pointers chephy. Also good insight into a reason why so many cyclists ride with the seat so low. :)

I put mine a little lower on icy days--makes it easier to put a foot down if I start to slide.

I must admit that I'm not very adept at standing on the pedals to ride. Do you have any suggestions for developing this skill?


How does one accelerate through a busy intersection, or up a small grade, etc? Do you grind the gears or shift constantly?

Almost seems like second nature to me, to just let the pedal carry you off the saddle for that extra power when you need it...

How does one accelerate through a busy intersection, or up a small grade, etc? Do you grind the gears or shift constantly?

Almost seems like second nature to me, to just let the pedal carry you off the saddle for that extra power when you need it...
I usually grind a harder gear but stay seated. I think there's a generation gap. Younger riders stand a lot, older ones sit. When I was a kid they told us not to stand unless you were climbing or racing. Also we rode huge bikes, even as small children. There were no BMXs, which is what I think most people under 40 started riding on.

That's just silly. Different things work for different people. Funny how you always pounce on "self-proclaimed experts" preaching their views as the only correct ones, and yet do exact same thing...

But anyway I was not even talking about standing on pedals for extra power, just for a proper dismount... .
But anyway your self.:rolleyes: I replied to two other posters (Not you) who specifically posted about the skill required/desired for standing on their pedals to ride or for extra power. I wasn't addressing you, or those whom you believe don't have the know how to "properly" dismount from a bicycle.

IMO standing on pedals for extra power (unless in a race) indicates a lack of cycling skill, or at least a lack of ability to know when to adapt/adjust riding pace and/or adjust gearing and cadence for conserving energy for differing cycling terrain. I can stand on pedals if I want to, but haven't wanted to in decades.


When climbing I stay in the saddle and spin, only rarely do I stand, then only if the gradient gets anything over vertical ;).
BUT if out on a loooong ride I will occassionaly stand to stretch the pins or if racing and attacking on a long hill, or at the start of a sprint, or balancing at the traffic lights, (even then I usually sit), or if my seat post bracket snaps.

When climbing I stay in the saddle and spin, only rarely do I stand, then only if the gradient gets anything over vertical ;).
BUT if out on a loooong ride I will occassionaly stand to stretch the pins or if racing and attacking on a long hill, or at the start of a sprint, or balancing at the traffic lights, (even then I usually sit), or if my seat post bracket snaps.
Makes sense to me.

How does one accelerate through a busy intersection, or up a small grade, etc? Do you grind the gears or shift constantly?

Almost seems like second nature to me, to just let the pedal carry you off the saddle for that extra power when you need it...
That's one way to accelerate. Personally, I do not find it that difficult to shift to the right gear for any situation and prefer to make cycling easier rather than harder. I didn't know that shifting gears was so much of a chore or so difficult.

That's one way to accelerate. Personally, I do not find it that difficult to shift to the right gear for any situation and prefer to make cycling easier rather than harder. I didn't know that shifting gears was so much of a chore or so difficult.
Well my problem is I can't find the damn clutch.