I was wondering.....this forum is called "Clydesdales". There is not Athenas forum, and I don't see too many Athenas posting in here. There is that sticky athena thread, but it never gets used anymore. It seems nearly all posting is by clydes (e.g. guys).

How many Athenas don't even come in here just because of the title, "clydesdales"? We could be losing out on valuable members and information.

I know it took a long time to get BF to see the need to create a Clydesdale forum, but it seems a bit sexist. I wonder what you guys think about renaming the forum to something that includes (invites) the Athenas too.

Maybe "Clydesdales/Aheanas" or something like that.

What are your thoughts?

Man I agree with you whole heartedly. Wimmens folk are a bit more sensative and self conscious than us mean 'ole menses, who could give a damn less what we all look like. The 'Athenas' could really benefit on this forum if they could be made to feel more comfortable.

I think your idea of combining the two is great. :D

After searching because I knew I read about this somewhere. Their is a woman's super secret sub forum. I'll guarantee that's where a lot of the Athena's hang out. See reference thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=276416&highlight=women+sub+forum

After searching because I knew I read about this somewhere. Their is a woman's super secret sub forum. I'll guarantee that's where a lot of the Athena's hang out. See reference thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=276416&highlight=women+sub+forum
I know there is a secret women's forum, but its not "Athena specific". Women tend to be more finicky on those types of things...they may be even more intimidated to post in the women's forum about weight related issues for fear of attack from the skinny chicks.

I still think this forum would be better suited to Athenas than the women's forum.

Time for the conspiracies to start. Maybe there's a super super secret Athena Forum. ;)

I am intimidated by my wife, she is an Athena.

I know there is a secret women's forum, but its not "Athena specific". Women tend to be more finicky on those types of things...they may be even more intimidated to post in the women's forum about weight related issues for fear of attack from the skinny chicks.

I still think this forum would be better suited to Athenas than the women's forum.
How do you know there isn't an Athena thread there?;)

How do you know there isn't an Athena thread there?;)
Didn't say there wasn't.....but don't they deserve more than a thread?

Didn't say there wasn't.....but don't they deserve more than a thread?
Yep! I was kidding ya, By the way!:p crazylady says there is an Athena thread there, but I can't really say one way or the other......no access!

I just kinda figured this was a more appropriate place for 'em.....I, for one, would love to have their experience in here along with our own.

Agreed!

I just kinda figured this was a more appropriate place for 'em.....I, for one, would love to have their experience in here along with our own.

Well, I'm here, but if I'm the only girl, I'm leaving...:p

The women's forum is doing fine, and so are the Athenas in it.

One nice thing -- and don't take this the wrong way, guys -- about the women's forum, is how you don't always have guys chiming in on a women-to-women question, or proposing solutions to women-specific problems. It's well-intentioned and all that, but it's out of place, and in the women's forum it just doesn't happen.

The women's forum is doing fine, and so are the Athenas in it.

One nice thing -- and don't take this the wrong way, guys -- about the women's forum, is how you don't always have guys chiming in on a women-to-women question, or proposing solutions to women-specific problems. It's well-intentioned and all that, but it's out of place, and in the women's forum it just doesn't happen.
Yep, We understand that,LBB. Just don't be a stranger here either! We miss the womens touch around here sometimes is all....we could use some viewpoints from your side of the aisle is what KT is referring to.;)

Yup...if you're fine, you're fine.

I thought the women's forum might not be a good place to discuss weight issues, and this might be better. If I'm wrong, then that's fine. Would love to see more Athenas in here though, to get their perspective on things as well.

LBB - don't take this the wrong way but Wow! does a couple guys post really ruin a womens day on a internet forum? i have a scroll down on my internet browser! Do you? .

Added-- I dont think anyones begging women to post in the main cylde forums but we all have Wives,Daughters,Sisters and mothers that have questions and could enjoy cycling .The information we read when our female counterparts post teaches us how to help the women in our lives appreciate cycling if they have a question. I for one have had lots of questions and i point them to this forum.

Tom has knowledge that has helped everyone male or female.. and men and women arent that different that that knowledge can't be used by everyone!

Plus i've never seen guys on the clydes forum post anything rude or inappropriate.... ????? To each thier own! i guess...

LBB - don't take this the wrong way but Wow! does a couple guys post really ruin a womens day on a internet forum? i have a scroll down on my internet browser! Do you? .

chunky, let me ask you this: how would you feel if someone who had been fit and skinny their whole life came into the Clydesdales forum and started holding forth with advice for Clydesdales? Some of it would probably be spot on and welcome...but some of it wouldn't. As time went on, if this person persisted, probably a lot of it wouldn't. This person could read all the books and have a PhD in human physiology and eighteen dozen fat friends, but he/she is not and never has been a Clydesdale.

So imagine it: this person posts all kinds of "helpful" things about "I've heard that" and "Studies show that". He/she says things like, "If you ever want to lose weight, you need to..." and "Do you really want to spend the rest of your life like that?" When Clydes complain that they have trouble finding bike clothes, he/she says, "I just don't see why it's that big a deal," or "Just lose the weight and you'll have plenty to wear!" When Clydes post about their latest accomplishment of doing a ten-mile ride, they post, "Yeah, I did that much before breakfast. You'll do much better soon, I'm sure! Just being helpful! And encouraging!"

And then, when you suggest that perhaps a never-been-a-Clydesdale isn't the best person to be commenting on situations he/she has never had to deal with, you are told:

don't take this the wrong way but Wow! does a couple skinny people's post really ruin a fat guys day on a internet forum? i have a scroll down on my internet browser! Do you? .

Clydesdales have this space and would not want it to be disrespected or co-opted. That courtesy should be extended to others as well.

Honestly it wouldnt effect me at all, i'd scroll down to the useful info.. but thats me.. and everyone different.

I dont think anyone was saying elimate the athenas forum! i think people would like to see a womens persective like i mentioned above to help the women in thier lives.

And coments like the ones you posted for example are true alot of times whether we like it or not.. and sometimes thats what people need to hear and sometimes its not.. hense the scroll bar.

Being a adult allows me ability to accept peoples opinions and in fact i appreciate the fact they took the time to post even if its a bit off... it's all in the vain of support.

And no skinny persons comments have or will ruin my day... i have a hearty serving of self-esteem..i think sports gave me that. It also was what allowed me to not care and get huge! lol ahhaha

In my brain the heart of the word clydesdale is any man or women who is bigger than the normal cyclist but still wants to battle it out! This forum has built up a such a comradrie(sp?) and all the different perspectives from all sizes or gender ..its all helpful.. you can see where you want to be and what to excpect.
My riding buddy is female and she kicks my butt! me and her boyfriend struggle to keep up and she's probably 125.. but i still learn form her! i hope to give her some competition some day but in the meantime i learn! lol

To each thier own.. :)

LBB.....please don't take this as an offense. I only posted this thread because I wanted the Athenas to feel more welcome in this forum. I know there is a women's forum, but there is not an "Athenas" forum. My only intention (and it was with assumed knowledge) was that this forum would be more inviting when it came to issues that were directly "Athena" related and not generic "women" related. E.G. Issues about weight, mostly.

The example you put above would be a perfect example. It seems to me if you posted something in the Women's forum that was "weight related", that you would get a lot of skinny women who really don't know anything about being overweight chiming in. If you posted that in THIS forum you would have responses from mostly people who are overweight and understand the issue much better.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the women's forum....I just thought this forum seemed overly male dominated and wanted to do something to keep the Athenas from feeling intimidated thinking it was a "big MEN's" forum only.

KingTermite, no offense taken. I wasn't saying, "There's a women's forum, therefore no need for an Athena forum," but that the women's forum is there AND from what I can see quite welcoming of Athenas. And, while a woman who's been skinny all her life doesn't know firsthand the struggle of a fat person, I think it's fair to say that all women are familiar with the pressure on women to conform to a certain body type and appearance.

I don't know that I agree that this forum is "male dominated". The posters are predominantly male, but that's a bit different. Why don't more Athenas post here? There could be all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with this being an unfriendly place for women.

I don't know that I agree that this forum is "male dominated". The posters are predominantly male, but that's a bit different. Why don't more Athenas post here? There could be all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with this being an unfriendly place for women.Yes, THAT was the point of this thread. It seems that not many women/Athenas post here and I assumed (me and my damn assumptions again) was that it was not "inviting" because the title "Clydesdales" presumes a male audience.

I didn't know that "clydesdales" presumed a male audience. I just know that a clydesdale is a big horse. I'd never given a thought to whether or not these are male or female horses. You mean... most of you people posting are men??? Anyway, I can't say that it makes much of a difference to me. Good cycling advice, experiences, motivation, etc. is valuable whether it comes from a man or a woman, 200 + lbs or a 95 lbs twig. I ride with a group that seems to split up 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through a 25-30 mile ride. Each of the groups seem to include clydes/athenas, men/women, 200 + lbs/90 lbs riders. Not to mention all different races and nationalities. I think that there are plenty of forums already to cover the different aspects of cycling. If you have something to say, just post it in one of the forums that you feel most appropriate.

I mean... I see posts by men (I assume) sharing advice on how to take care of "the boys" on long rides etc. People seem to "chime in" and provide assistance if they can. If you're a woman and need to post a subject concerning cycling and your period... go ahead, it won't bother me... but then again, I won't be able to help you out... but someone will.

I just would hate to see the forums become so fragmented that we have to have a forum for "225-250 lb women riding fuji touring bikes on the west coast that are having hair loss problems." Post whatever you want, you're invited and you're welcome.

I just would hate to see the forums become so fragmented that we have to have a forum for "225-250 lb women riding fuji touring bikes on the west coast that are having hair loss problems." Post whatever you want, you're invited and you're welcome.
Again, this is why I started this thread. "Clydesdale" is typically the term referred to as a larger male rider. "Athena" is the term typically used for larger female riders. What I'm afraid of is many larger women might not even come in here because the forum name is "clydesdales", not "clydesdales/athenas".

I don't think there needs to be a separate forum, I'm only suggesting renaming this forum to be more generic and seem "more inviting" to larger women.

Well, I sure read* the forum, but I didn't feel I was welcome to post until I read this thread. But it was more about making you* guys uncomfortable, like you couldn't talk about guy stuff as freely if you were afraid of offending women. I'm in a field that used to be totally dominated by men, and I found that the all-male thing was pretty relaxing for guys, so I didn't want to screw it up for you.

P.S. But the athena forum I think (and the women's forum) is a great idea, because a lot of us (particularly those without a sports background or who are just starting to bike in middle age) are focused in a different direction. "Battling it out" isn't really something I think about, for instance.

Well, I sure read* the forum, but I didn't feel I was welcome to post until I read this thread. But it was more about making you* guys uncomfortable, like you couldn't talk about guy stuff as freely if you were afraid of offending women. I'm in a field that used to be totally dominated by men, and I found that the all-male thing was pretty relaxing for guys, so I didn't want to screw it up for you.
Won't bother me, and I don't think it'll bother anyone else either!;)

Again, this is why I started this thread. "Clydesdale" is typically the term referred to as a larger male rider. "Athena" is the term typically used for larger female riders. What I'm afraid of is many larger women might not even come in here because the forum name is "clydesdales", not "clydesdales/athenas".

I don't think there needs to be a separate forum, I'm only suggesting renaming this forum to be more generic and seem "more inviting" to larger women.

It's fine with me if it's renamed. It won't affect me at all. Any other names in mind??? Hefty Riders, Big Mama's and Papa's, Hippo's on Wheels?? There are people that post in this forum that are 200+ lbs that are extremely fit. A 6'5" rider that is 205 lbs is probably not what I think of when I think "clydesdale." But if such a rider wants to post in this forum... so be it. I can probably learn alot from a fit "big" rider.

It's fine with me if it's renamed. It won't affect me at all. Any other names in mind??? Hefty Riders, Big Mama's and Papa's, Hippo's on Wheels?? There are people that post in this forum that are 200+ lbs that are extremely fit. A 6'5" rider that is 205 lbs is probably not what I think of when I think "clydesdale." But if such a rider wants to post in this forum... so be it. I can probably learn alot from a fit "big" rider.
+1

And I like "Big Mama's and Papa's". :D

My wife says the forum should be named Amazons and their slaves!

Big Mother*Shut Your Mouths*

Ummm, aren't there female Clydesdales, too? I think anyone who needs this forum will find it just* fine, and maybe us women could make an effort to show up more.

Or is the Athena thing a racing definition? If it's well known, then how about Clydesdales and Athenas?

Athena did originate in Triathlon racing as a term and it spread from there to other sports.

My wife says the forum should be named Amazons and their slaves!

+1

I spotted this post this morning, and since we're talking 2 cents--KT, I think what you are trying to say is that heading the forum "Clydesdales/Athenas" is inclusive, and that's a good thing.

Whether or not more women will post is another story, but it wouldn't hurt to put that up in the forum name. How hard would it be to change the title of the forum?

East Hill

Or is the Athena thing a racing definition? If it's well known, then how about Clydesdales and Athenas?That's exactly what I was suggesting.

As far as I know it, Athenas is the term used for a female *clydesdale. I was worried many Athenas would not even come in here because all they saw was "clydesdale".

I spotted this post this morning, and since we're talking 2 cents--KT, I think what you are trying to say is that heading the forum "Clydesdales/Athenas" is inclusive, and that's a good thing.

Whether or not more women will post is another story, but it wouldn't hurt to put that up in the forum name. How hard would it be to change the title of the forum?

East Hill
That may be and so be it. There's no way for me to know how many Athenas pass up this forum because they think its a "big men only" forum.....that's what I wanted to avoid. I wanted to get the ones who didn't realize this was a unisex forum. ;)

i say change the name to Clydesdales/Athenas. Im sure none of us would mind and there is no need to have seperate forums.

On a serious note, is there really a women secret forum? lol i feel so dumb asking.

On a serious note, is there really a women secret forum? lol i feel so dumb asking.Yup.

Hi - I'm new here, been lurking for a while, and mainly reading the Clydes' posts. I guess I'm a "Super Athena," (5'11" and well over 300 lbs) and I started biking a few weeks ago. I love it.. but... HILLS.. OUCH!! lol

I'd been quiet because I kind of thought this was a "guys only" hangout. Good to know women are welcome too.

Athenas is the term used for a female *clydesdale.

Sorry KT, last time I checked a female clydesdale was still a mare (provided that she is more than 4 years old). Clydesdale is neither male nor female and therefore cannot be a the deciding factor of sex. In all seriousness, and I am sure most of the female population would agree, there is no need for to add the athena tag. You can't be so afraid to step on peoples feelings you know, the women folk are quite resilient who tend to post and respond with tact. They know they are welcome and will exercise their right to post as they see fit.

Not flaming you, just my .02

Hi - I'm new here, been lurking for a while, and mainly reading the Clydes' posts. I guess I'm a "Super Athena," (5'11" and well over 300 lbs) and I started biking a few weeks ago. I love it.. but... HILLS.. OUCH!! lol

I'd been quiet because I kind of thought this was a "guys only" hangout. Good to know women are welcome too.
Welcome BeckyW. Glad to have you here.

In all seriousness, and I am sure most of the female population would agree, there is no need for to add the athena tag. You can't be so afraid to step on peoples feelings you know, the women folk are quite resilient who tend to post and respond with tact. They know they are welcome and will exercise their right to post as they see fit.
My thought was for a lot of the newer riders. A newer female rider barely knows the terms Clydesdale/Athena, but when they learn "Clydesdale" is a big GUY on a bike, they may think this is a "guy" related forum. The previous post from BeckyW is a prime example that my thoughts on that were correct (at least in some respect).

Perhaps if more Athenas posted here, then it wouldn't have that "guys only" feel to it either.

My thought was for a lot of the newer riders. A newer female rider barely knows the terms Clydesdale/Athena, but when they learn "Clydesdale" is a big GUY on a bike, they may think this is a "guy" related forum. The previous post from BeckyW is a prime example that my thoughts on that were correct (at least in some respect).


Good point, and honestly I wasn't trying to step on your toes. It's clear that your thoughts were done with the best of intentions and I respect that *golf clap*. However I still insist that Clydesdale is unisex and feel that adding Athena would only tip the scales of gender bias towards the women folk, two references to female to one male. Not that this would bother any men, just saying that your logic, while in the best of intentions, is flawed in what I believe to be a slippery slope type argument.

Instead one could easily take away any type of gender reference at all and call this section of the forums "200lbs + / 91kg +". This would be neither insulting by associating us with large animals (even though the term clydesdale makes me chuckle) nor would there by any way to differentiate gender based on numbers. I think this would be the best solution. Maybe we should take a poll and let everyone's voice (click) be heard.

Any other good suggestions? So far for potential titles we have "Clydesdales", "Clydesdale/Athena's" and "200lb + / 91kg +"

However I still insist that Clydesdale is unisex and feel that adding Athena would only tip the scales of gender bias towards the women folk, two references to female to one male.
Not trying to turn this into an argument, but you re right we disagree.

I've been in to cycling for a while now and have always had the understanding that the connotation of a clydesdale was larger men, and for women it was Athena. Just because the horse can be of either sex, has nothing to do with the connotation.

I tried to search for it to see if I could find anything official. I couldn't, but I did find this:

Wikipedia definition of triathalon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triathlon

In the "How a Triathlon works section:
n some triathlons, amateur athletes may have the option to compete against others in heavier-weight divisions. "Clydesdale" athletes are those men generally over 200 pounds, while "Athena" athletes are women generally over 150 pounds. This is not officially sanctioned in any of the professional or Olympic events.


I couldn't find much more than that, however, I found numerous events (triathlon, cycling, etc...) which mentioned weight divisions. They all showed "Clydesdale" as the men's group and Athena's as the women's group.

++1 on the John Shaft reference!!
As far as the "Athena" label...ya'll need to leave that alone, it sounds HOT!!
ATHENAS....WOOHOO!
.....sorry......
SpokeApe

For my money anyone can post in here who wants to, but I will say that a woman at 150-180 pounds doesn't have to worry about breaking lightweight weels, carbon seatposts and titanium pedal spindles in the same way that a 200 pound plus guy does.

I've had people say here that just being over 200 wasn't a sufficient distinction, that if you were tall and not huge you shouldn't take the moniker, but there is still the reality of having to choose equipment different based on the strain it is going to go through.

mean 'ole menses
hehehe

Solveq said, "P.S. But the athena forum I think (and the women's forum) is a great idea, because a lot of us (particularly those without a sports background or who are just starting to bike in middle age) are focused in a different direction. "Battling it out" isn't really something I think about, for instance."

The two forums I read are Tandem and Clidesdales. I'm more intimidated on the Tandem forum, where the active members talk of riding 20, 40, 60, 100 miles a day on the weekends. I could do that at 17, but not now. I'm proud of my kids and myself when we ride 4-5 miles a day on the weekend. They are in fine shape, but only 5, and I'm fat and 46, so 4 or 5 mountainous miles is a real effort right now. Okay, even in this forum I see a lot of "how many hours do you train," and "how many miles...." but at least I can see some emphasis on improving general fitness, not strictly riding fast and far, leading the pace line, and so on.

Calling the forum Clidesdales/Athenas is fine with me.

Catherine

The two forums I read are Tandem and Clidesdales. I'm more intimidated on the Tandem forum, where the active members talk of riding 20, 40, 60, 100 miles a day on the weekends. I could do that at 17, but not now. I'm proud of my kids and myself when we ride 4-5 miles a day on the weekend. They are in fine shape, but only 5, and I'm fat and 46, so 4 or 5 mountainous miles is a real effort right now. Okay, even in this forum I see a lot of "how many hours do you train," and "how many miles...." but at least I can see some emphasis on improving general fitness, not strictly riding fast and far, leading the pace line, and so on.

I think if you look close you'll find there are two sides in this forum. Those who train, race and are major competitor types, and heavier people who want to improve their health, but aren't ready to go out and ride a century tomorrow (that's me too).

Look at my " Superclyde (300+) longest rides?" thread....the whole point was to show people in here, just like you as you describe yourself, that we aren't all out there riding centuries every weekend. There are many who are still fairly new and/or not long mileage riders yet. You aren't alone. I would like people in that boat to not be intimidated about posting, asking questions, giving input and being afraid the competitive types will make fun of their small accomplishments. That may be true in road cycling, but hopefully not in this forum.

You know, I like to say hi to folks in the Introductions forum, and at every possible opportunity I tell people that the Clydesdales forum is one place where everyone is welcoming, no matter what shape, size, or sex the new person is. This forum has been great to everyone since it was created. I may not be an Athena, but I don't feel unwelcome here, and I've learned quite a bit just from lurking.

So, thanks everyone! You are all cool...

East Hill

What?:eek: We have girl cooties in this forum?:eek:


One of the reasons I like the clydes forum is that there are folks here that know exactly what I am going through as a super-clyde. The racing and hard-core clydes are very friendly and valuable as well. Those guys and their Athena equivalents show me the great fun I can have in the future. This is just a nice place to be, clyde, Athena, Super-clyde/Athena, or even those not in that weight range.