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I just did an experiment (http://athleticsenior.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-much-do-clipless-pedals-help.html) comparing clipless pedals to toe clips. I found about 1.9 percent improvement on a climb and 1.85 percent on a flat course. How much do clipless pedals help you?
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I asked this question a few weeks ago and didn't get any replys. I know that they do increase your power output, but didn't know how much. I also read where they say to put the clips on your shoes as far back as they will go. The same if you have knee problems. In Andy Pruitt's book he recommends the clipless for more power output, but he didn't give any figures. I feel they helped me, but others say they don't.
I don't know and don't really care. I've been riding clipless for 16 years and can't stand riding a bike without.
Clipless gives you the ability (or better ability) to pull up with the off leg. You can use that motion to increase your power or to relieve your "push" muscles for a while and let the O2 catch up with the debt. The actual effect is extremely dependent on the situation, the rider, and the current gravitational constant.
I just did an experiment (http://athleticsenior.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-much-do-clipless-pedals-help.html) comparing clipless pedals to toe clips. I found about 1.9 percent improvement on a climb and 1.85 percent on a flat course. How much do clipless pedals help you?
Since going clipless in January 2007 when I got a set as a gift for my 65th birthday, I have:
lost 40 pounds (18%)
upped my average miles from 128 to 163 per week (27%) and 229 per week the past 4 weeks (79%)
increased my average speed over the same 30 miles course from 14.2 to 16.6 (17%)
dropped my resting heart rate from 56 to 48 bpm (14%)
got off my bp meds and lowered my bp from 138 to 116 (16%)
My Egg Beaters don't deserve all the credit, obviously, but I could not have done it without them. Any one out there make that sort of progress on flat pedals or toe clips????
I know they help me when I am pedalling up hill. I use muscles that I can't use with regular pedals. After using them for a while it just doesn't feel right without them.
From a motorsports background, something that can give a 2% improvement in lap time is absolutely amazing. I have no intention of ever using clipless, but my first reaction was 2% -- wow!
Paul
I asked this question a few weeks ago and didn't get any replys.
Well, in my test they helped by 1.85-1.9 percent. Does anyone else have any data?
Larry
Since going clipless in January 2007 when I got a set as a gift for my 65th birthday, I have:
lost 40 pounds (18%)
upped my average miles from 128 to 163 per week (27%) and 229 per week the past 4 weeks (79%)
increased my average speed over the same 30 miles course from 14.2 to 16.6 (17%)
dropped my resting heart rate from 56 to 48 bpm (14%)
got off my bp meds and lowered my bp from 138 to 116 (16%)
My Egg Beaters don't deserve all the credit, obviously, but I could not have done it without them. Any one out there make that sort of progress on flat pedals or toe clips????
I think you are "suffering" from (actually benefiting from) what I call new toy syndrome. I noticed this effect when I got my first set of clipless. I noticed it again when I replaced my heavy steel bike with a lighter aluminum setup, and yet again when I replaced that bike with a CF frame, and, yet again when I bought my first set of real road riding clothes (bibs and jersey if that's what you call 'em).
The clothes don't do anything physically to add to my speed or reduce my weight or increase my riding time. But the novelty (not to mention the comfort) makes me want to just ride and ride. Besides, as long as I'm moving, I don't hear any comments about how I look in those clothes, so, I ride and ride without stopping (and I lose weight and look a little better every week!!).
I used to be almost stoic in my insistence that there was some benefit to platforms (variable foot positions, and so forth) until I actually installed them - not because I wanted to improve my performance, only because I had run out of toys to purchase for my bike, LOL.
They have improved every aspect of my riding experience.
Caruso
I just did an experiment (http://athleticsenior.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-much-do-clipless-pedals-help.html) comparing clipless pedals to toe clips. I found about 1.9 percent improvement on a climb and 1.85 percent on a flat course. How much do clipless pedals help you?
If you wore "sneakers" with toe clips, then your experiment was set up a little bit flawed. You want to compare the difference between the two pedal systems, but you threw in the shoe variable, too, if you didn't wear bicycling shoes using both pedals.
Since going clipless in January 2007 when I got a set as a gift for my 65th birthday, I have:
lost 40 pounds (18%)
upped my average miles from 128 to 163 per week (27%) and 229 per week the past 4 weeks (79%)
increased my average speed over the same 30 miles course from 14.2 to 16.6 (17%)
dropped my resting heart rate from 56 to 48 bpm (14%)
got off my bp meds and lowered my bp from 138 to 116 (16%)
My Egg Beaters don't deserve all the credit, obviously, but I could not have done it without them. Any one out there make that sort of progress on flat pedals or toe clips????
What ever it is your doing right, congradulations:D
I think you are "suffering" from (actually benefiting from) what I call new toy syndrome. I noticed this effect when I got my first set of clipless. I noticed it again when I replaced my heavy steel bike with a lighter aluminum setup, and yet again when I replaced that bike with a CF frame, and, yet again when I bought my first set of real road riding clothes (bibs and jersey if that's what you call 'em).
The clothes don't do anything physically to add to my speed or reduce my weight or increase my riding time. But the novelty (not to mention the comfort) makes me want to just ride and ride. Besides, as long as I'm moving, I don't hear any comments about how I look in those clothes, so, I ride and ride without stopping (and I lose weight and look a little better every week!!).
I used to be almost stoic in my insistence that there was some benefit to platforms (variable foot positions, and so forth) until I actually installed them - not because I wanted to improve my performance, only because I had run out of toys to purchase for my bike, LOL.
They have improved every aspect of my riding experience.
Caruso
That's what I keep telling my wife. She really knows I need a new bike.:D
I think you are "suffering" from (actually benefiting from) what I call new toy syndrome. I noticed this effect when I got my first set of clipless. I noticed it again when I replaced my heavy steel bike with a lighter aluminum setup, and yet again when I replaced that bike with a CF frame, and, yet again when I bought my first set of real road riding clothes (bibs and jersey if that's what you call 'em).
The clothes don't do anything physically to add to my speed or reduce my weight or increase my riding time. But the novelty (not to mention the comfort) makes me want to just ride and ride. Besides, as long as I'm moving, I don't hear any comments about how I look in those clothes, so, I ride and ride without stopping (and I lose weight and look a little better every week!!).
I used to be almost stoic in my insistence that there was some benefit to platforms (variable foot positions, and so forth) until I actually installed them - not because I wanted to improve my performance, only because I had run out of toys to purchase for my bike, LOL.
They have improved every aspect of my riding experience.
Caruso
You are probably right. I recently got a Garmin 305 and notice that I like to beat each previous ride, so I go hard to do it.
I've been wearing bike shorts and jerseys for quite a while and now face a dilemma--the current stuff is starting to get a bit baggy, but I have not lost all the weight I want to. Should I get one set to carry me through or wait a bit until I get to my fighting weight??? Anyone need some used XL and XXL shorts and jerseys??
I don't know and don't really care. I've been riding clipless for 16 years and can't stand riding a bike without.
I'm with ctyler. I don't know and I don't care. I started riding clipless in 1993. Riding with a platform (or toe clip) pedal just doesn't seem right.
That's what I keep telling my wife. She really knows I need a new bike.:D
Of course you do. I think a Cannondale Road Warrior 1000 would do you really well.
You are probably right. I recently got a Garmin 305 and notice that I like to beat each previous ride, so I go hard to do it.
I've been wearing bike shorts and jerseys for quite a while and now face a dilemma--the current stuff is starting to get a bit baggy, but I have not lost all the weight I want to. Should I get one set to carry me through or wait a bit until I get to my fighting weight??? Anyone need some used XL and XXL shorts and jerseys??
Sounds like you're fighting pretty damn well right now! You can reward yourself with some shorts that fit rright.
road fan
In a related thread that was on here just a few weeks ago, a couple of people posted summaries of data gathered from scientific tests which showed that clip & clipless pedals improved performance by at most something less than 0.5%. And I think it might have been closer to 0.2%. These improvements are vs using a platform pedal.
This was based upon the amount of force that one applied in the upstroke vs the downstroke. That the force of the downstroke overwhelms the marginal force actually generated on the upstroke side. I believe there was some data suggesting that for most riders, the difference is very close to 0, that you would have to really work at it to get it up to 0.5%.
I've since seen many bicycle shops advertising clipless as being 20% more efficient, and a couple claiming 30%. If one thinks about how much force they generate on the downstroke vs what they achieve on the upstroke, it is readily obvious that it is no where near 20%. You would have to be pulling up very hard - and it would feel like you lifting weights as you did.
I haven't reviewed the actual study or numbers, so I have no comment on their validity, although it seemed to be from a credible source.
I don't know if this holds true for all riders under all conditions. But I would think it would be very difficult to get anywhere near 5%, much less the claimed 20%. And if someone isn't working hard at developing and maintaining a very active upstroke, and is rather just pedaling along clipped in, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the difference was less than 1%.
If anyone has references to a legitimate study, I'd like to see them.
Of course you do. I think a Cannondale Road Warrior 1000 would do you really well.
That's a nice bike, but only a small step up from where he is now.
George needs to make the BIG commitment and go to a new Madone or Specialized S-Works road bike! Or maybe a custom-fitted bike.
No small steps this time George!
lpress...I like how everyone has an opinion but only one person (you) actually tested it out. Good work!
If you wore "sneakers" with toe clips, then your experiment was set up a little bit flawed. You want to compare the difference between the two pedal systems, but you threw in the shoe variable, too, if you didn't wear bicycling shoes using both pedals.
If you read his experiment, his purpose was to figure out which shoes to wear in a triathlon. Since clipless added so little advantage, he doesn't need to waste time worrying about those shoes.
I don't really care if they improve my performance. They are just one of the things that indicate I'm a "serious" cyclist, and, by God, I'm gonna use 'em. ;)
That's what I keep telling my wife. She really knows I need a new bike.:D
Here's one for you...from a guy who managed to win 5 Tours de France and to become known as the greatest bicycle racer of all time - all without clipless pedals. :)
and it's on sale! :eek:
http://www.chicagolandbicycle.com/merckx_axm.htm
Riding clipless means: you're confident, you gots mad bike skilz, it's cool, its rad, you transfer 100% of your animal power to forward propulsion, you climb like a scalded monkey and float like a butterfly.
Riding without clipless (go for it, you grammarians) means: kids laugh at you behind your back, motorists despise you, women loath you (if you're a guy), you got lots of cellulite, you were lycra bike shorts on your head in the evening while you're at home, and you mow your lawn wearing bib shorts.
Here's one for you...from a guy who managed to win 5 Tours de France and to become known as the greatest bicycle racer of all time - all without clipless pedals. :)
Yeah, but he was riding against other guys without clipless pedals. I hate to say it, and there is not way to really prove it, but I suspect that even in his prime he would have had a hard time with some of today's riders if they were using modern equipment and he was using the stuff of his time. I really believe that even riders of his era used the best equipment they could get their hands on.
The comfort factor of clipless alone makes a huge difference. Toe clips aren't comfortable for long rides. But they do have some strengths. For example, track racers still prefer toe clips over clipless pedals because of the added security of not coming unclipped. But once you get past track distances, give me some comfortable Sidi's with clipless pedals any day.
I think there is more to it than numbers or actual power output. Clipless pedals give me the ability to spin for hours without thinking about it, whether standing or pulling up or trying to spin out a cramp. I'd hate to try and do a long, hard ride with platform pedals and I used clips and straps years ago and they SUCK, especially when it's cold out.
Here's one for you...from a guy who managed to win 5 Tours de France and to become known as the greatest bicycle racer of all time - all without clipless pedals. :)
and it's on sale! :eek:
http://www.chicagolandbicycle.com/merckx_axm.htm
Holy cow, I remember I could buy a car for $200 and a suit for $80, the car was used of course, but the suit was LIKE new.:D
A tour rider has to use every advantage. Even if the advantage is 0.3%, that would add up to a lot of minutes over a multi-stage event. So I don't think the fact that tour riders ride clipless really proves much to the typical cyclist.
It is difficult for a person to conduct a completely unbiased test. If someone has even a small, hidden desire for one result to be better, they could very easily work just a little bit harder, even if they don't consciously notice it. I've seen this effect many times in other product comparisons. This is why carefully controlled conditions must be established before any valid conclusions can be reached.
For example, I had a friend who fiercely believed in there being sonic differences between audio cables. He ran his own tests and scored nearly 100% in picking out which cable was which. But when I assisted him on the tests, and conducted a much better double-blind comparison, he scored 50% - which is the same as flipping a coin.
Yeah, but he was riding against other guys without clipless pedals. I hate to say it, and there is not way to really prove it, but I suspect that even in his prime he would have had a hard time with some of today's riders if they were using modern equipment and he was using the stuff of his time. I really believe that even riders of his era used the best equipment they could get their hands on.
Absolutely. I was not suggesting otherwise. The equipment today is much faster. Just look at the bikes he sells now. Nothing like what he raced on. But he was still the best there has ever been.
That's a nice bike, but only a small step up from where he is now.
George needs to make the BIG commitment and go to a new Madone or Specialized S-Works road bike! Or maybe a custom-fitted bike.
No small steps this time George!
Guess what Tom, I took a Roubaix Elite for a ride this past weekend and man, is that a sweet bike. He said I could have it for $1750. I said call me when you get down to $1500 out the door. Now that I can get lower, I took the handlebar riser off the bike and I started to get a little neck pain. so I'll have to wait a little bit yet, but I'm working on it. After all is said and done, I would like a steel road bike though. Too get a light steel one though, cost big bucks.
If you wore "sneakers" with toe clips, then your experiment was set up a little bit flawed. You want to compare the difference between the two pedal systems, but you threw in the shoe variable, too, if you didn't wear bicycling shoes using both pedals.
That is true -- my intuition says clipless pedals help more than the stiff shoes, but the shoes may have contributed part of the gain.
For me, over hundreds of rides on the same courses, it's zero. I've done the same 24-mile commute and some other regular loops since 1979, on several bikes. In recent years I've alternated among old-school pedals with toe clips, platforms without clips, Power Grips and two different clipless systems, and there's NO difference I can measure.
The ride to work takes within a minute of 44 minutes, assuming I don't hit lights or traffic, and the ride home (uphill and often into a stiff wind) takes about 55 minutes. I don't keep detailed logs anymore, but I did for years, and pedals/clips/shoes made no consistent difference at all. My fastest ride from work to home was on an old Trek tourer I'd made into a singlespeed and rode with Power Grips and athletic shoes, probably because I had to work harder than usual on the hills to keep from losing momentum.
I'm with ctyler. I don't know and I don't care. I started riding clipless in 1993. Riding with a platform (or toe clip) pedal just doesn't seem right.
+1 I'm not into quantifying the gain either, I won't ride without them.
I don't care about the power. I just find clipless a lot more comfortable!
I discovered on last year's summer tour that I was faster with clipless. It's anecdotal, but I wasn't intentionally doing an experiment (which I believe makes the results more believable). I was on a recumbent and a little unfamiliar with the new riding style so, for two straight days I rode the morning unclipped (platform side of campus pedals) and the afternoon snapped in. On the second day I realized that on both days I was with the leaders when snapped in, and lagging behind somewhat when on the platforms. (It's SO scientific, how can you argue?)
But the other effect it had -- I found I had to adjust the clips well back on the shoe to feel comfortable on the "bent". And now that I'm back on a regular bike, ..I kinda like the rear position of the clips.
Well your feet slip around alot less and that's a nice feeling especially as you begin to get tired...
I'd like to try just the strap and see what that's like.
I've only used the Shimano spd's but recently someone donated some Time Atac pedals and cleats I've yet to try them...just put them on some shoes... :)
For me it is a lot easier getting in an out of clipless pedals than it ever was using toe clips
I have the cage and I wear street shoes. I don't like the feeling that I can't get my feet far enough into the cage as I would like to get the pressure farther back than the ball of my foot. I would like to switch, but that would mean buying new shoes as well as pedals. When I look at the large number of bicycle shoes on the market and the wide price range, i am completely baffled. If you were going to buy clipless pedals and shoes now what would your choice based on a compomise between price and performance.
I like the products from Crank Bros. Both my wife and I use their Candy pedals. They are two sided with a small platform and very easy to clip in/out of. I have a pair of Specialized semi-mountain bike shoes (no lugged sole but the cleats are resessed), comfortable and easy to walk in. You can get the Crank Bros Smarty pedals for less than $50 and I think my shoes were around $60. My wife wears an inexpensive Lake shoe that she likes very much.
for two straight days I rode the morning unclipped (platform side of campus pedals) and the afternoon snapped in. On the second day I realized that on both days I was with the leaders when snapped in, and lagging behind somewhat when on the platforms.
My test was on a couple of different short runs -- maybe the results would be different on a long ride like this.
Larry
I've never seen any test results comparing platform to clipless on a recumbent. That could be different than an upright. So what dbg is reporting from his experience on a 'bent can't be transferred to what one might realize on an upright bike.
I done have any percents but I do feel the extra power when I actually think about using an upstroke. I'm new to clipless so I don't fully utilize the benefits and only do so when I'm getting bogged down in sand or mud or something. That extra little pull-up really drive me forward.
But (and maybe it's only me) I have to concentrate a little to use them effectively. Maybe it's just a matter of time and practice.
I find clipless/spd to be easier to use and more comfortable than toe clips. Can't quantify qualitative data.
I am a total rookie and only have experience with platform pedals and SPD's. SPD's sure seem to be a lot better to me.
I think there is more to it than numbers or actual power output. Clipless pedals give me the ability to spin for hours without thinking about it, whether standing or pulling up or trying to spin out a cramp. I'd hate to try and do a long, hard ride with platform pedals and I used clips and straps years ago and they SUCK, especially when it's cold out.
big john makes the most important points here. It isn't a bunch of extra power, but it is that secure feeling of NOT having to do any work to keep your feet on the pedals and NOT having to use energy to stabilize your foot. This becomes more important as rides get longer and the rider starts getting a bit more fatigued. Race car drivers find that their seat belt harnesses hold them in place so that they can do things with their hands and feet and don't have to brace themselves against g forces. Same principal applies to being clipped onto your bike.
Here's a statistic: I have had a total of 0 pedal tatoos on my shins since I started riding clipless.
In the FWIW category, here's a link to an Arnie Baker article that takes on a lot of claims on cycling & performance. Baker is a famous cycling coach, M.D., and the author of many books on cycling.
http://www.arniebakercycling.com/resume.htm
http://www.arniebakercycling.com/pubs/Free/Bic%20Med%20&%20Science%201999.pdf
It contains this comment about pedals:
"Almost all racers now use clipless pedals for
comfort. A study this year found them not to
offer any physiologic performance advantage
over toeclips and straps."
I don't care about the power. I just find clipless a lot more comfortable!
Until you get off your bike :)
Yes it is a 1999 article. But I understand the test included Shimano SPDs, as those came out in 1993 and they had the Dura Ace 7700 SPDs out by 1998. The Look road pedals first came out in the mid-80s and there were many variations around by '99.
I'm not pretending to be an expert on this subject, merely passing along what I find. Perhaps there have been some significant improvements since the Dura Ace 7700s that I know nothing about. But they sure look like high quality clipless pedals to me.
As stated previously, clipless may offer somewhat more of an advantage to top flight racers, who have trained to use every advantage, than what they do for someone who is commuting or on a group ride of 50 miles, even if those riders are riding at a good pace.
What I find of interest is that most on-line bike shops promote clipless as offering 20% efficiency gains and we are debating whether they offer as much as a 2% gain.
I went from averaging about 14 mph to averaging about 15 mph (7% increase) after changing from sneakers and strapless toe clips to mountain shoes and clipless pedals. Was that all due to the clipless pedals? Maybe not. Am I going to go back to my old setup long enough to find out if my average speed drops? Not on your life!
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