Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Carbon fiber randonneurs?

It's new bike time for me, and apparently there are some carbon fiber frames in my price range (certainly some with carbon bits like chain or seat stays and fork, of course). Any randonneurs out there roll on carbon?? I'm not *too* concerned with a lack of eyelets b/c I don't have plans to do anything more than a 400k in the near future so a seat-post clamped rack would be OK, no?

I've seen plenty of carbon fiber on brevets.

I'm a retrogrouch, but carbon does work. The only serious improvement with a carbon bike, though, is weight, and you have to ask yourself whether that's worth the trade-offs (lack of eyelets, few if any "rando-specific" geometries, probable lack of clearance for wide tires) for you. If so, I don't see any real reasons not to go for it.

My Trek 5200 makes a great rando bike, I think. Stiff for good power transfer, yet it soaks up the chipseal. But every frame is different. I use a Detours seatpost rack pack. Have to have an aluminum seatpost for that sort of thing.

Thanks! I'm actively shopping ATM so I'll keep CF on the list.

A propos, what would qualify as "rando-specific geometries"?

Depending on size, roughly 73 front, 72 rear, longish chainstays, and plenty of fork rake. The Specialized Roubaix comes close to this, I believe, but still doesn't include room for especially wide tires, AFAIK.

There may be some carbon cyclocross bikes that are quite suitable, but I'll admit to being out of that loop. Way, way out.

Were I on a budget, I'd strongly consider the REI bikes, the Novarra touring and randonneur bikes in particular. Were I on a super tight budget, I'd be searching for an 80s "sport-touring" frameset which is really pretty close to an old French rando frame.

I ride an all carbon, no fork rake, Giant TCR Comp1 on all my brevets. Done 400s and 600s on it. Also a 1000 and a 1200. I'll take the bike to PBP. I love it. It's light, it turns on a dime, and it fits me perfectly.

I am a novelty out there. Never seen another TCR on a long brevet (seen 'em on 200s and 300s), but you do see them in ultra races. I've seen some Trek 5200s roll in randonneuring events, but again, only on the shorter rides.

I've ridden with a seatpost rack in the past (including my one 1200K), but that's been replaced by an equally voluminous Caradice Super C pack (which affixes as well to my Selle Italia Flite as it does to the Brooks saddles that it was designed to accompany).

As for durability? No problems yet. (I did break a stem bolt on a 400K once; 2-bolt stems are not recommended for randonneuring! Finished the ride of course. Steering with the stem (only 8 miles from the finish; couldn't extract sheered bolt with anything other than vise grips, which were in short supply in the Ohio countryside at 1am.)

I'll get another invite to join the Dick Head idiot club for saying it, but I think a good rando-appropriate bike is whatever you want it to be. Yes, to each his or her own.... Pick something you like to ride that fits you well and go with it. That said, I don't recommend my bike to others. Or my 11x23 gearing (with a 53/39 up front). Or my preference for light travel. But it all works for me. And I'm just as a much a randonneur as all you granola-munchin' guys with your down-tube shifters! See ya in Paris! :D

From what I've seen, you can ride damn near anything in a brevet. I'd bet the vast majority of bikes in brevets are not rando-specific. For my money, I want a bike that's going to go straight when I'm wasted. "Turns on a dime" is not what I want when I'm seeing things and trying to remember my own name. Other people -- many other people, by the look of it -- don't care so much. C'est la vie.

From what I've seen, you can ride damn near anything in a brevet. I'd bet the vast majority of bikes in brevets are not rando-specific. For my money, I want a bike that's going to go straight when I'm wasted. "Turns on a dime" is not what I want when I'm seeing things and trying to remember my own name. Other people -- many other people, by the look of it -- don't care so much. C'est la vie.

Like I said: I don't and haven't recommended, and am not here recommending, my bike or my style of randonneuring to anyone else. I'm just saying that you see a lot of stuff out there and there aren't any "right" answers to bikes, gear, etc. You even see a nut like me out there. Having fun. With a big smile. Turning on lots of dimes. If you like carbon, then ride carbon. And don't let the grouches who will poo-poo your bike and openly make fun of you at events (yes, this happens with sad frequency -- we're every bit as snotty and elitist here in the randonneuring community as the USCF racers are) tell you what you should or shouldn't ride.

Note: Six jours, I'm not saying this is you here-- I think we agree that folks can and do ride anything!

I ride an all carbon, no fork rake, Giant TCR Comp1 on all my brevets. Done 400s and 600s on it. Also a 1000 and a 1200. I'll take the bike to PBP. I love it. It's light, it turns on a dime, and it fits me perfectly.


Your fork has rake, even if it's a straight bladed fork the blades are at a different angle than the head tube which creates rake. Track bike's have 30-40mm rake which puts the front tire millimeters from the downtube.

You're right though, anything you're comfortable on for hours and hours and hours and hours...

you want one of these:

http://ifbikes.com/frames2/xs-lg.shtml

I rode a steel / carbon LeMond last year.
Worked great, except for the clip on fenders which sucked in the rain, and no real place to hook up lights (I used knobs on the fork), no real place to attach a rack (for the 400 and the 600, but I made a Tubus work OK), and no clearance for tires larger than 25mm - and this was a huge benefit when I got my new frame - what a difference in comfort wider tires can make!

I think if carbon bikes came with some options for creature comforts I'd be more into them... but most seem set up for fair weather, racer type riding...

The bike worked perfectly fine. I was comfortable as I could be on that frame (the geometry changed on
my new ride and I'm more comfortable now...)

YMMV

Ride what you love, love what you ride, but for long rides make sure its comfortable.

I get laughed at when I roll up to group rides with my Carradice, fenders, and lights still mounted - but I ride like I ride - no sense in changing the bike around for each ride... I'm comfortable, and I always have the same gear with me... and it means I can take the long way home if I feel like it.

I'm all in favor of the Octopuses' view: Whatever works for you on a brevet is a randonneuring bike. So far this year, I've ridden 11 brevets (including a fleche) on five different bikes (main rando bike; then after its frame broke, I rode a borrowed C'dale touring bike; then I got a new main rando bike, a Rivendell Rambouillet; then I rebuilt a Trek 400 w/Reynolds 531 and rode it on a 300; and I rode with a friend on a tandem). Main thing that matters is to make sure that the geometry of the contact points is identical.

I see quite a few people riding bikes with carbon fiber bits on brevets. Personally, I have some concerns about the longevity of those bikes. I like metals that have long fatigue lives and tend not to have sudden failures. Steel frames (after my aluminum frame cracked) and aluminum parts. Maybe titanium if I had the money.

On the DC Randonneurs 600K, this year, someone with a carbon seat post had the seat post snap at about the 250K point. FWIW, he had a Carradice bag on a Bagman. Looking at our results page, it looks like he DNF'd.

I've never seen an aluminum seat post snap, and I don't think a carbon seatpost saves more than a few grams. Supposedly they're a little more comfortable, but that hardly seems worth it if they snap. You can always run fatter tires for extra comfort, and if they're good tires then they should be just about as fast as narrower tires.

But if you're buying a bike primarily for shorter, club rides, and only for occasional (and maybe shorter) brevets, then CF might be optimal for the club rides and work perfectly fine for the brevets you ride.

Oh, I certainly don't mean to imply that one is "wrong" for choosing one bike over another for randonneuring; just that personal preference reigns supreme. Personally, any advantages that carbon has are, for me, outweighed by the limited and possibly non-existent choices about "braze-ons", geometry, tire clearance, etc.

For other folks, a carbon race frame may be just the ticket. They can even put on double disks and a rubberized skinsuit, if they want. :)

Jeff Oatley, placed 7th in RAAM this year, on an all-carbon Orbea Orca.... I believe the geometry is road racing; definitely not touring or randonneuring. ;)

http://www.velonews.com/images/dom/12453.19004.f.jpg

Edit:

Oh by the way, don't forget that a lot of bikes of all sorts have CF seatposts. You might want a metal one if you're going to clamp a rack onto it.

And why not use that Dahon Speed Pro you used to love?!? :eek: ;)

Jeff Oatley, placed 7th in RAAM this year, on an all-carbon Orbea Orca.... I believe the geometry is road racing; definitely not touring or randonneuring. ;)



Edit:

Oh by the way, don't forget that a lot of bikes of all sorts have CF seatposts. You might want a metal one if you're going to clamp a rack onto it.

And why not use that Dahon Speed Pro you used to love?!? :eek: ;)


Again, totally cool if thats what you are into.
Jeff probably had a support car full of wheels, meals, and whatever else he needed following him around.
Much different than most randonneurs heading off into the night between controls at mini marts in sometimes rural country.

CF can make a perfectly great bike... perfectly great for rando if you like what most CF bikes offer.
I think its critical to get the fit right, then make sure that the components are comfy for the long haul.
What feels great for a 60 mile club ride or even a century may not feel so great after 400k.

We also tend to over analyze all things bicycles. (I know I do...)
Borrowing the words of a former secretary of defense "You go to a brevet with the bike you've got."
If the body armor starts failing after 300k... you know you have some things to work on.
Try to adapt the machine to the body, not the other way round.

Jeff Oatley, placed 7th in RAAM this year, on an all-carbon Orbea Orca.... I believe the geometry is road racing; definitely not touring or randonneuring. ;)

Edit:

Oh by the way, don't forget that a lot of bikes of all sorts have CF seatposts. You might want a metal one if you're going to clamp a rack onto it.

And why not use that Dahon Speed Pro you used to love?!? :eek: ;)

personally I like the style of John Spurgeon - custom Vanilla frame, and single speeding RAAM.
I think he's probably the only rider in the history of the race to sport fenders... (and it looks like a homemade cloroplast job at that)

http://gallery.raceacrossamerica.org/photos/163088942-L.jpg

personally I like the style of John Spurgeon - custom Vanilla frame, and single speeding RAAM.
I think he's probably the only rider in the history of the race to sport fenders... (and it looks like a homemade cloroplast job at that)


RAAM on a singlespeed? I can't even ride to work and back without changing gears :-)

So I made it Bicycle Renaissance today and sat on the Orbea Onix and Felt F4. I couldn't test ride b/c I got out of work too late and barely made it to the shop before closing! It appears that I'm a 54 in Orbea and 56 in Felt. I'm still looking for a place I can try a 54 Cervelo Soloist Team.

personally I like the style of John Spurgeon - custom Vanilla frame, and single speeding RAAM.
I think he's probably the only rider in the history of the race to sport fenders... (and it looks like a homemade cloroplast job at that)

http://gallery.raceacrossamerica.org/photos/163088942-L.jpg

That bike that John is on was built by Ira Ryan cycles. His flat land maching is the Ira and his climbing bike is the Vanilla.

That bike that John is on was built by Ira Ryan cycles. His flat land maching is the Ira and his climbing bike is the Vanilla.

Sorry!
You are correct.
I should have noticed the logo...

I just finished a 1000k this weekend on my main Randonneuring bike, a Trek Pilot 5.2. I've done a series on it and the Cascade 1200. It' got eyelets for fenders, which I do run most of the time here in the Northwet. I've also ridden several of the shorter brevets (100,200,300k) on my Trek 5500. For hauling stuff, I carry a Jandd Large seat bag. Typically, it weighs less than 10lbs and I don't need to add any rack for it (and the extra weight).

Don't let anyone give you too bad of time if you ride plastic, Jan Heine Gives me a bad time about my plastic bikes, but he'll grab it's wheel just the same.

I've ridden steel in the past, but prefer my carbon. Ride whatever you like and feel confortable on.

Brian

Sorry!
You are correct.
I should have noticed the logo...

No worries, at all.

credit where credit is due and all...

Brian O, what is the tire clearance on that frame. With fenders also if you know.

Thanks

I've only run 25mm Pro 2 Race tires with the fenders, and there is plenty of clearance around them. I don't have anything larger to try, but I would guess that most 28's wouldn't have a problem but anything larger might.

Jan Heine Gives me a bad time about my plastic bikes, but he'll grab it's wheel just the same.

Oh, that's funny.

Anyway, Doublereed, maybe something like Ed Braley's Trek carbon-forks-and-stays Pilot 2.1 650B conversion?

http://www.bikeman.com/images/stories/650Blog/trekpilot650B1.jpg

I think you could do about the same thing with an all-carbon frame Pilot 5.0. But in any case, if you're going to use your seatpost as a cantilevered luggage rack, get a stout one.

HTH,
TCS

You might also rethink your platform. Here's what Michael Wolfe (no relation) is riding up in the Seattle/Portland area for Brevet's. I'm pretty sure he's heading to PBP with his Aero. Here's a write up of a 400k and on his bikes.

http://escapevelocipede.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_archive.html

They come in Ti and Carbon, and Aluminum. If your going to do distance, you may want to look at comfort for the long haul. My paramount and LHT are gathering dust as I use my Corsa pretty much exclusively now, and just took delivery of an Aero frameset.

Mark

You might also rethink your platform. Here's what Michael Wolfe (no relation) is riding up in the Seattle/Portland area for Brevet's. I'm pretty sure he's heading to PBP with his Aero. Here's a write up of a 400k and on his bikes.

http://escapevelocipede.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_archive.html

They come in Ti and Carbon, and Aluminum. If your going to do distance, you may want to look at comfort for the long haul. My paramount and LHT are gathering dust as I use my Corsa pretty much exclusively now, and just took delivery of an Aero frameset.

Mark

I've debated going to a bent... just can't see it though - something of a prejudice for the way a DF works.
I'm also not sure they'd be effective in the NE for the terrain we have. I can only remember seeing bents on the shorter (200k) Boston Brevets. (I may be wrong...)
The 600k last year had 20k feet of climbing - some of it steep. I can see a bent working really well on western style climbs - miles at a consistent gradient - but some of the climbs in the NE are paved cowpaths... I'm sure folks have done BMB on them.

Would be fun to try though. I've seen some folks around VT on them - but I've never seen them on App or Middlebury Gap. I'll have to ask around - maybe try to find a shop that'll let me spin one for a day.

It's new bike time for me, and apparently there are some carbon fiber frames in my price range (certainly some with carbon bits like chain or seat stays and fork, of course). Any randonneurs out there roll on carbon?? I'm not *too* concerned with a lack of eyelets b/c I don't have plans to do anything more than a 400k in the near future so a seat-post clamped rack would be OK, no?

There are a lot of misconceptions about carbon fiber. Frankly, a well made carbon fiber bike would be the best choice for really long distance rides because it has the best ride quality of all the bike frame materials. This is because carbon fiber damps more vibration in critical frequencies better than steel, aluminum and titanium.

This is one reason they are putting carbon fiber forks and seat posts on aluminum frame bikes. Of course how the bike is built is just as important. But since carbon bikes are generally upscale bikes they are usually built well.

I say if you have the money and find a bike you like go for it. Carbon bikes are getting less expensive all the time.

credit where credit is due and all...
But he did have his finish line photos (http://gallery.raceacrossamerica.org/gallery/3028596/12/165622492/Large)taken with the Vanilla. You have to be happy about that.

Frankly, a well made carbon fiber bike would be the best choice for really long distance rides because it has the best ride quality of all the bike frame materials.
Well, I think that's a bit overly broad, myself. I personally don't care for the ride of carbon all that much. Tires have vastly greater effect on ride comfort than do frame materials -- I'd much rather ride an old Cannondale with supple 30mm tires than the plushest carbon frame with narrow racing tires at 140 psi, at least as far as comfort goes -- and most carbon bikes feel a bit mushy to me.

Not, of course, that there's anything really wrong with carbon, if you like the way it rides. My only real concern would be finding one with all the features I want for randonneuring. I don't think such a beast exists, but then, the features I want aren't necessarily the ones other people want. C'est la vie.

I've debated going to a bent... just can't see it though - something of a prejudice for the way a DF works.
I'm also not sure they'd be effective in the NE for the terrain we have. I can only remember seeing bents on the shorter (200k) Boston Brevets. (I may be wrong...)
The 600k last year had 20k feet of climbing - some of it steep. I can see a bent working really well on western style climbs - miles at a consistent gradient - but some of the climbs in the NE are paved cowpaths... I'm sure folks have done BMB on them.

Would be fun to try though. I've seen some folks around VT on them - but I've never seen them on App or Middlebury Gap. I'll have to ask around - maybe try to find a shop that'll let me spin one for a day.

You need to hook up with Rich Pinto, he's the guy behind the Bacchetta design. He's in New Hampshire or somewhere up there. There's quite a few of them headed out to PBP this year. If you check the Century bike thread, I just posted up a picture of My carbon fiber Bacchetta. Built it from a 700c frame kit. Kind of a one off since they did a limited run of 700c frames. It's 22lbs without the bag/water bladder in that picture, and that's with heavy wheels and a euromesh over a carbon seat. Anyway, I'll pm you offline with Rich's email, he can tell you about the hills in your area and a bent.

Well, I think that's a bit overly broad, myself. I personally don't care for the ride of carbon all that much. Tires have vastly greater effect on ride comfort than do frame materials -- I'd much rather ride an old Cannondale with supple 30mm tires than the plushest carbon frame with narrow racing tires at 140 psi, at least as far as comfort goes -- and most carbon bikes feel a bit mushy to me.

Not, of course, that there's anything really wrong with carbon, if you like the way it rides. My only real concern would be finding one with all the features I want for randonneuring. I don't think such a beast exists, but then, the features I want aren't necessarily the ones other people want. C'est la vie.


Well of course there are a lot of things that effect the ride of a bike and some carbon fiber race bikes might not be to comfortable for really long rides as the geometry of the structural features of the frame effect ride quality as much as anything. But because carbon fiber is more flexible in the shapes that they can build it can be customized more to tune the ride quality of the bike.

IF you need to carry a rack it may not be the best choice since there may not be any carbon bikes with the proper attachments. But there are better ways to carry loads of up to ten pounds without racks.

Tires of course seem to have a greater effect than nearly anything else since they are in direct contact with the road. However, the thread is not about tires.

Okay, you win. Carbon fiber has the best ride quality of all frame materials, and though I prefer the ride of steel and/or titanium, I'm wrong.

Also, my mother smells of elderberries. :p

Okay, you win. Carbon fiber has the best ride quality of all frame materials, and though I prefer the ride of steel and/or titanium, I'm wrong.

Also, my mother smells of elderberries. :p

OF course you are not wrong. Perhaps you just like more road feel or the way steel feels. This is a subjective preference. However, carbon fibers' vibration dampening properities are not subjective they are empirical. Chances are that you would have to try several carbon frames before you found one that suited your preferences.

Steel is real!

I've debated going to a bent... just can't see it though - something of a prejudice for the way a DF works. I'm also not sure they'd be effective in the NE for the terrain we have. I can only remember seeing bents on the shorter (200k) Boston Brevets. (I may be wrong...)
this is verging into tangent territory, but bmike, you might want to start a separate thread or at least PM ldesfor1. He did the Boston series this year with another two guys on recumbents. I know that, in general, they tended to finish in the tail end of the pack, mostly because of what you mentioned with hill climbing. They finished the 400 at 26:18, 42 minutes before cutoff, but they still finished.

They also had a really tough time with the 600. When I was leaving Brattleboro at 5:30, I believe that ldesfor1's 'bent was at the motel and that he was supposedly continuing on and just napping for a bit, the other two 'bent riders had DNF'ed around the climb to Stratton ... though, that's unconfirmed and based on control point rumours.

this is verging into tangent territory, but bmike, you might want to start a separate thread or at least PM ldesfor1. He did the Boston series this year with another two guys on recumbents. I know that, in general, they tended to finish in the tail end of the pack, mostly because of what you mentioned with hill climbing. They finished the 400 at 26:18, 42 minutes before cutoff, but they still finished.

They also had a really tough time with the 600. When I was leaving Brattleboro at 5:30, I believe that ldesfor1's 'bent was at the motel and that he was supposedly continuing on and just napping for a bit, the other two 'bent riders had DNF'ed around the climb to Stratton ... though, that's unconfirmed and based on control point rumours.

yeah, i'm more curious than anything.
i just don't see many of them round these parts (although i'm sure they are all riding when i'm working or being lazy)
when i lived in putney i remember seeing 1 trike in nearly 2 years... and he used it more as a commuter than anything.
i guess you'd need to be a really good spinner and bring alot of gears.

When I'm old I'm going to have one of those supercool Mercian trikes made up.

Recumbents? Well, the velodrome where I used to work occasionally hosted streamliner races, and 60 MPH bicycle are pretty cool. But overall, the dynamic just seemed a little too pocket protector for my tastes. *running and hiding* :lol:

Well I'm not a randonneur yet. I was hoping to be farther along this year but kids and life keep beating me down.

BUT, I will be a carbon fiber randonneur when I get my distance up. That is the bike I have. IMO I give up 2 things.

1. A proper rack- Good size Carradice solves that.

2. Proper fenders- Not that this is a CF thing. But most CF bikes don't seem to be the types that have clearance for fenders. I have done centuries with SKS raceblade fenders and they did fine. They don't keep the bike as clean, and you can get some spray on your feet. But seriously. I was soaked already. The main benefit for me with the fenders was keeping the front tire spray off my chin and the back tire spray from going all the way up my back.

Otherwise it is a super comfy bike and plenty durable.

-D

Steel is real!


I really need to change my sig. I'm on a carbon recumbent now. My lugged Paramount is still a cool all steel ride, but it's not as Aero, nor is it comfortable for oh, say 100+ miles.

this is verging into tangent territory, but bmike, you might want to start a separate thread or at least PM ldesfor1. He did the Boston series this year with another two guys on recumbents. I know that, in general, they tended to finish in the tail end of the pack, mostly because of what you mentioned with hill climbing. They finished the 400 at 26:18, 42 minutes before cutoff, but they still finished.

They also had a really tough time with the 600. When I was leaving Brattleboro at 5:30, I believe that ldesfor1's 'bent was at the motel and that he was supposedly continuing on and just napping for a bit, the other two 'bent riders had DNF'ed around the climb to Stratton ... though, that's unconfirmed and based on control point rumours.

Recumbents have this stigma about not being able to climb. Mostly because they're insanely heavy, and have heavy riders, or fat old guys (FOGS) piloting them. Like I tell people when I'm out on mine as that is usually the first question, "how's it climb" my standard reply is that if you climb slow on an upright bike, you're going to climb slow on a recumbent. After a year on my bent, I'm pretty close to the same climbing speed that I had on my upright. I'm not the fastest up hills, but I'm not the slowest. I pass people and get passed. When it comes to climbing it's all about power to weight. That brings me to the other area, most the recumbents you see on the road are HEAVY, but this is changing. The newer Bacchetta's can be stupid light. The Carbon Aero used on last years RAAM was 17lbs, and Jim Kern was in 3rd place in the mountains before coughing up a lung in the high altitudes of Colorado (quite a few dnf'd there). This years RAAM saw two 2 man teams on recumbents. They didn't win 2 man overall, but they were only 6 hours behind the winners, and only 3 2 man teams have ever averaged over 18mph for RAAM in the history of the event. Recumbents have come a long way from being 30+ lb home built machines in someones garage, but they still have that stigma. Just because two recumbent riders barely made it for a 400k doesn't really say much. What was their fitness level? Lots of upright guys DNF also.

Here's a writeup by Danny Chew on this year's Calvins. Danny has pretty much owned this event.
http://www.dannychew.com/2007Calvins.html

If you're serious about Brevets and doing distance riding, IMHO a good performance recumbent and randonneuring go hand in hand. I'm not talking about those heavy homebuilts, or long wheelbase steel bikes, but current generation bikes like Bacchetta's Aero, or a Velokraft VK2. Bikes that are light, with fit riders. It's a big change from the uprights world, but I can guarantee you that everyone who's made the switch would do it again in a heartbeat.

Just check out http://www.ultracycling.com/ events and watch the results. Recumbents, especially Bacchetta's are well respected in the Ultra world. Look for 2 or maybe 3 two man recumbent teams this year at FC508. Both solo recumbents RAAM qualified at last years 508.

When I'm old I'm going to have one of those supercool Mercian trikes made up.

Recumbents? Well, the velodrome where I used to work occasionally hosted streamliner races, and 60 MPH bicycle are pretty cool. But overall, the dynamic just seemed a little too pocket protector for my tastes. *running and hiding* :lol:

Same here, but man, 75 watts at 25mph, nothing says geek like applying physics and aerodynamic principles to a bicycle to make it go fast. Most streamliners aren't practical on the street anyway, which is why I just added a Carbon Aero to my stable. Check the sig..

Recumbents have this stigma about not being able to climb. Mostly because they're insanely heavy, and have heavy riders, or fat old guys (FOGS) piloting them.

Recumbents have come a long way from being 30+ lb home built machines in someones garage, but they still have that stigma. Just because two recumbent riders barely made it for a 400k doesn't really say much. What was their fitness level? Lots of upright guys DNF also. actually, the Boston results just got posted last night, so to correct myself, of the three recumbent riders, only one DNF'ed, the other two finished in 39:15.

I don't doubt that a fit rider on a lightweight racing machine can put in a good showing on a brevet, but I also wonder how much of a difference there is between that rider's performance on a conventional DF frame versus a recumbent at relatively similar budget levels?

(I know that recumbents tend to be more expensive, but is there some rule of thumb for how much more expensive for a given performance class? Like, say, what would be the price difference between a carbon fiber Bachetta and a Trek 5200?)


Like I tell people when I'm out on mine as that is usually the first question, "how's it climb" my standard reply is that if you climb slow on an upright bike, you're going to climb slow on a recumbent. After a year on my bent, I'm pretty close to the same climbing speed that I had on my upright. do you have to train different muscles to climb on a 'bent vs. an upright? do people who traditionally climb while standing have to learn to climb with a higher rpm spin? I'm curious about why it took you a year to come back up to speed.

Check the sig..

that's a geeky ride for sure. would love to try it though. i used a pocket protector all through middle school and junior high. some of high school too.

no room for fenders on that ride, so far as i can see.
when it rains do you end up with spray in the face? seems your back is pretty well protected.

do your arms tire after while? seems they are held in an unnatural position... my wrists and elbows are screaming at me just looking at the pic.

how would one handle 12-14% grade? what about 17%? 22%? (all grades i'll hit on a fall century, and some that i hit on interval / climbing sessions)

interesting... for sure.

actually, the Boston results just got posted last night, so to correct myself, of the three recumbent riders, only one DNF'ed, the other two finished in 39:15.

I don't doubt that a fit rider on a lightweight racing machine can put in a good showing on a brevet, but I also wonder how much of a difference there is between that rider's performance on a conventional DF frame versus a recumbent at relatively similar budget levels?

(I know that recumbents tend to be more expensive, but is there some rule of thumb for how much more expensive for a given performance class? Like, say, what would be the price difference between a carbon fiber Bachetta and a Trek 5200?)

do you have to train different muscles to climb on a 'bent vs. an upright? do people who traditionally climb while standing have to learn to climb with a higher rpm spin? I'm curious about why it took you a year to come back up to speed.

It didn't take a year, but it wasn't immediate either. As for speed, it was climbing that I needed to adjust to, day one on the bike had me 2-4mph faster everywhere else. My 19mph level ground cruise on my Paramount translated to 22-23mph on the recumbent for the same effort. Of the one big climb by my house I found myself pushing the bike the first time I tried it on the recumbent. I then was able to spin up in on the granny, and now I keep it in the middle ring, and I pass guys on it all the time. They say average is about 1000 recumbent miles to adjust. The problem is you can't stand and use body weight. However, you can push against the seat, and generate power but it can't be substained, so we pretty much spin.

The Carbon Aero has an MSRP of $5400. I built mine from a frame kit and used parts I had, so I'm into it for considerably less. The bike which I think is Bacchetta's biggest bang for the buck for those who want to go fast is the Corsa. It's an aluminum frame with 105/Ultegra and MSRP is $2200, although you can find them for less. If you're looking for a first recumbent I'd say go for the Corsa, if you don't like it, you can recover most of the outlay. Check out bentrideronline.com that's the big recumbent site. Also try to find a dealer in your area. http://www.bacchettabikes.com has a list by zip, and also an owners forum.

I find myself doing more long distance stuff now that I have the bent. Before you'd be lucky to see me do more than 50-60 miles on my Paramount, mainly due to jacking up my shoulder a few years back and the dull ache associated with distance riding on it.

that's a geeky ride for sure. would love to try it though. i used a pocket protector all through middle school and junior high. some of high school too.

no room for fenders on that ride, so far as i can see.
when it rains do you end up with spray in the face? seems your back is pretty well protected.

do your arms tire after while? seems they are held in an unnatural position... my wrists and elbows are screaming at me just looking at the pic.

how would one handle 12-14% grade? what about 17%? 22%? (all grades i'll hit on a fall century, and some that i hit on interval / climbing sessions)

interesting... for sure.

Actually, my arms are very comfortable. They are just out in front of me, kind of like a motorcycle cruiser postion, elbow slightly bent. Mission gorge is 8-10% and I do that on my middle chainring. Again, I'm 215 +/-5 so I don't climb fast. On the steeper stuff you'd gear down, I run a 26/27 low with the 650c wheels. Ron Smith was running a 24/28 on the same bike (Corsa), and when they gave him crap for a climbing ride, he was passing people on steep climbs when they were walking. So, yeah, they can climb, I've dipped down to 3-4mph on some climbs in the granny. On Mission Gorge, I can hold 8 give or take. Ron might chime in here as he follows the forum.

Just for information sake. The Great divide bike race record was smashed this year on a Orbea all carbon fiber hardtail mountain bike. It was one of the most trouble free frames in the race. This is the longest off road endurance race in the world. 2500 miles 95% off road.

This should fundamentally lay to rest any notions that carbon fiber is less durable than steel for a frame material.