"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Grrr...I suck at Criterium strategy!

So in tonight's training crit I did the exact opposite of last week and started the race out in the front of the pack...I led out the first 2 laps thinking there are plenty of people faster than me and they will pass me. Nope....they were happy just sucking my wheel. So I dropped back after the 2nd lap because frankly i'm not strong enough to pull for 20 minutes. Hung on with the pack for another 10 minutes and then promptly got gapped and I was done. Got lapped on the last lap at the finish line just like last week!

Things i've noted, I'm good for the first 12 minutes and then I blow up....so if there are any 12 minute TT i'm golden:D I need more practice bridging gaps when i'm tired. I don't feel like i get enough power with my compact crank and an 11-23 cassette, the leverage doesn't feel right.

Any more advice would be great. I greatly appreciated the advice I received last week about doing a proper warm-up.

Warm up this week:

50:39
13.24 miles
Avg. Speed. 15.7 (would sprint a lap and then relax for 2 laps)
Max. Speed. 29.3 mph
Avg. HR: 149 (this needs to come up as race pace was 165 bpm)
Max. HR: 181 (This needs to come up also)


Crit Stats:
20:08
6.74
avg. spd: 20.1
max speed: 27.5 (my sprint is much faster I just don't ever seem to be in place to sprint)
Avg. HR: 165 ( this can come up)
Max. HR: 191 (187 bpm last week, this is the highest i've hit this year but have yet to be in a sprint I hit 196 last year but it was because I was 260 lbs)

you are figuring it out. just keep showing up. my only advice is absolutely dont do any work. dont pull. if you get stuck in the front just soft peddle until someone comes around.

your a big dude dont ever ever ever be out front.

your a big dude dont ever ever ever be out front.

Unless you are off the front.

As the others have said, you should never be in the front unless you have team mates in the race or are doing something tactical. Something specific, like chasing or working in a break, not just working for no reason.

Even if it seems like the pace is crawling, don't do any work, except for the above cases. Your goal is to cross the line first, not contribute your fair share of pace-making. If it really gets that slow, attack. If you find yourself in the front anyway, just ride at an easy cruising pace and be ready for the attacks. Because if no one pulls through, there will be attacks.

If you're running out of juice during races, the obvious answer is to do near-race-intensity workouts for race-like durations or longer. Your finishing power will improve. I, recursive, guarantee it!

your a big dude dont ever ever ever be out front.


problem is i'm always the first to clip in and because i'm a good sprinter I start well from the line...so a couple of pedals and I'm in front everyone at the start...i guess i need to start on the second row instead of the first

problem is i'm always the first to clip in and because i'm a good sprinter I start well from the line...so a couple of pedals and I'm in front everyone at the start...i guess i need to start on the second row instead of the first

Or you could start slower.

Or you could start slower.

or that...:rolleyes:

or you could just slow down to let people get past you.

If you're getting lapped by the field in a 20 min. crit, I doubt it's a strategy issue and suspect it's a fitness issue. Continue working, training, racing, and getting your a$$ kicked until you are the one kicking a$$.

If you find yourself on the front pulling the pack around, either attack like you stole something or slow down until you are no longer pulling the pack around.

learn how, in a race situation, to go 12mph. Seriously. If you line up first, you are not going to be dropped even if the race starts out at a stupid high speed. Just get in the pedal and go for a rec ride. Stay in the pack and work on positioning (near the front, not at the front). Finally if you end up on the front, coast. If no one wants to come around you then the race comes to a halt. SOMEONE will go around.

If you're getting lapped by the field in a 20 min. crit, I doubt it's a strategy issue and suspect it's a fitness issue. Continue working, training, racing, and getting your a$$ kicked until you are the one kicking a$$.

If you find yourself on the front pulling the pack around, either attack like you stole something or slow down until you are no longer pulling the pack around.
+1

Give it time, it'll come. Listen to the advice here. They're all right. Never be on front unless you have a reason to be. I too am a large rider. I was in a 45-min crit this weekend, found myself on the front, and so I soft-pedaled. They let me. Okay. Fine. I wasn't spending any energy and ended up getting 2nd place for my best result this season. If I can do it, you can too. :) Keep going back for more, keep hanging on a little bit longer each week. Pretty soon, you'll last the whole way.

(BTW, I'm 6'3", 255 lb former college football player with alot of muscle mass, and alot of fat too :D )

I think what you meant by strategy was fitness.

I think what you meant by strategy was fitness.

I agree I have issues with fitness but as long as I'm in the group I seem to be able to hang. I went out too hard tonight and then fell off the back and got gapped. The course is very windy for half of it so as soon as I get gapped I can't catch back up. Also there are definitely some guys in this C race that shouldn't be there. A guy went of the front both last week and this week and won both weeks without contest....his fitness is clearly above the C race but his cornering skills were sketchy...

I agree I have issues with fitness but as long as I'm in the group I seem to be able to hang. I went out too hard tonight and then fell off the back and got gapped. The course is very windy for half of it so as soon as I get gapped I can't catch back up. Also there are definitely some guys in this C race that shouldn't be there. A guy went of the front both last week and this week and won both weeks without contest....his fitness is clearly above the C race but his cornering skills were sketchy...

If its just a training race, or you are just there for training, push yourself way past your limit do work, attack, whatever youll get a ton stronger.


If you want to win be dirty and sit in until the sprint.

+1 to the advice in the posts above. Don't ever pull the pack around unless you're closing a gap for a teammate or leading one out.

Other than that, up for some hill repeats tomorrow?'

BTW: what crit is there on Wed? I swear, north and south Austin feel like they're in different states sometimes.

+1 to the advice in the posts above. Don't ever pull the pack around unless you're closing a gap for a teammate or leading one out.

Other than that, up for some hill repeats tomorrow?'

BTW: what crit is there on Wed? I swear, north and south Austin feel like they're in different states sometimes.

I would love to do hill repeats Waterrockets but I live in Nashville, TN....haha....

I agree I have issues with fitness but as long as I'm in the group I seem to be able to hang. I went out too hard tonight and then fell off the back and got gapped. The course is very windy for half of it so as soon as I get gapped I can't catch back up. Also there are definitely some guys in this C race that shouldn't be there. A guy went of the front both last week and this week and won both weeks without contest....his fitness is clearly above the C race but his cornering skills were sketchy...

Am I the only person who thought that was an interesting statement?

Three things about being at the front are good:

1) You're attacking.
2) You're in a break.
3) You're bringing back a break.

If you ever find yourself in any other sort of situation, get off the front. Immediately. I occasionally go to the front on hills to break fatties off the back in the 3s, but unless I'm doing one of the three activities listed above, it's not that common.

Guys, it's a training crit. A "C" training crit. A 20 minute "C" training crit.

Wheel suck to the end? What's the point?

My advice? Go to the front, put your head down, TT and see how long you can stay there. Repeat until you can stay there for the entire training race or until someone comes around you. Hiding out of the wind isn't going to make you fitter, isn't going to tell you much about your capacity, and isn't going to teach you how to suffer.

Just make sure the coast is clear and veer around a bit to pi$$ people off and make them work some.

I would love to do hill repeats Waterrockets but I live in Nashville, TN....haha....

lmao, I just glanced at your avatar, and it's similar to Ravenmore's, and that's who I thought I was talking to. Hmm, I should go to sleep now :)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8268/image12a9c4f2tm0.png http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/2231/image12aafd63ix0.png

As others said, you started too fast and burned yourself out....


I agree I have issues with fitness but as long as I'm in the group I seem to be able to hang. I went out too hard tonight and then fell off the back and got gapped. The course is very windy for half of it so as soon as I get gapped I can't catch back up. Also there are definitely some guys in this C race that shouldn't be there. A guy went of the front both last week and this week and won both weeks without contest....his fitness is clearly above the C race but his cornering skills were sketchy...Ok, you're fit enough to finish with the pack. Your issue is learning to temper the adrenaline. Resist the temptation to go all out all the time. Start slower and line up in 10-15th position. COUNT the number of guys ahead of you at the start. If it's LESS THAN 10, slow down. If it's MORE THAN 10, speed up and fall into 10-15th position. Success in crits is learning the mental chess-game, it's all in the head (well about 95% mental). You need to use a feedback loop of gathering information about the pack and the other riders' behaviors, then make the appropriate adjustment to your strategy to deal with them.

Also you found your solution to winning the race. Forget about hanging in or completing the race, go for the WIN!!! You've already identified the strongest rider in the group. Find him at the start and stay on his wheel!!! That's all there is to it. Learn to "hold your line" by following exactly one guy and one guy only around the entire course. If he moves left, you move left. If he moves right, you go right. If he takes off the front, you go with him. This requires reacting quickly, you should be on his wheel within 1 pedal stroke.

Same with crashes, don't stare at it and try to brake, you'll get clobbered for sure. Your first reaction is to look away at a gap that's safe and you'll automatically go there. I don't think I've ever seen a crashing rider hit the ground, I'm already looking for a way around him.

I don't think your compact is the problem, 50/11 is plenty of gearing. It's a training crit so treat it as such. Try stay near the front, at the front, attack, see if you can move through the pack. If you get dropped see if you can get back in to the pack. Just take it easy for a couple of laps until you get lapped then try to integrate yourself back in.

I don't feel like i get enough power with my compact crank and an 11-23 cassette, the leverage doesn't feel right.

Didn't notice this part. That's the exact combination I race on. With a max speed of 27.5mph, I can safely say that the compact crank is 100% definitely not (one of) the problem(s).

I don't think your compact is the problem, 50/11 is plenty of gearing. It's a training crit so treat it as such. Try stay near the front, at the front, attack, see if you can move through the pack. If you get dropped see if you can get back in to the pack. Just take it easy for a couple of laps until you get lapped then try to integrate yourself back in.


yeah...the gearing is plenty...i've only used the compact for about 3 weeks and am still getting the hang of it...It is also a 172.5 and I'm used to riding a 175. It feels as if i'm spinning too much and not shifting to harder gear. Just not what i'm used to...that is all.

lmao, I just glanced at your avatar, and it's similar to Ravenmore's, and that's who I thought I was talking to. Hmm, I should go to sleep now :)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8268/image12a9c4f2tm0.png http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/2231/image12aafd63ix0.png

they are confusing.

Guys, it's a training crit. A "C" training crit. A 20 minute "C" training crit.

Wheel suck to the end? What's the point?

My advice? Go to the front, put your head down, TT and see how long you can stay there. Repeat until you can stay there for the entire training race or until someone comes around you. Hiding out of the wind isn't going to make you fitter, isn't going to tell you much about your capacity, and isn't going to teach you how to suffer.

Just make sure the coast is clear and veer around a bit to pi$$ people off and make them work some.

agreed.

Yeah, to follow up on recursive's comment, a 50/11 is a bigger gear than the 53/12 many traditional gearing setups have- so gearing isn't the issue. It's possible you may still be adjusting to the compact, though- it took me a few rides to get in tune with mine, but I love it now. It helps that I'm very much a spinner to start with, I suppose.

Guys, it's a training crit. A "C" training crit. A 20 minute "C" training crit.

Wheel suck to the end? What's the point?
The thing about a training crit is that it's not just for fitness training. It can also be a dress-rehersal or a lab bench. So, you need to determine a clear goal before you start. In some training races, I am going out to learn how to break away successfully -- so I do whatever it takes to not be in the pack at the end. Either I'm off the front or out the back from trying. Other times I just want the fitness training, so I spend the whole time taking short pulls at the front, taking flyers on every hill, bringing back every break, etc.

Other times, though, I want to practice strategy, tactics, and efficiency. This is when I treat it like a real race. If I get to the the finish line in 1st place, and don't feel like I got a workout, it was a success.


You've already identified the strongest rider in the group. Find him at the start and stay on his wheel!!! That's all there is to it. Learn to "hold your line" by following exactly one guy and one guy only around the entire course. If he moves left, you move left. If he moves right, you go right. If he takes off the front, you go with him. This requires reacting quickly, you should be on his wheel within 1 pedal stroke.
One note on this technique: don't pedal slower than this guy's cadence. You can get a lot of information about what he's going to do just from an occasional glance at his cadence. If you match it, or pedal a little faster, you will not be caught in the wrong gear to respond to him.

One note on this technique: don't pedal slower than this guy's cadence. You can get a lot of information about what he's going to do just from an occasional glance at his cadence. If you match it, or pedal a little faster, you will not be caught in the wrong gear to respond to him.

Brilliant.

Well, it's been a while but here it goes. First, know thyself!

If you can't time trial then don't get in front, ever!

If you can't sprint then don't get caught in the pack, ever!

If your mediocre on both then always go with a group breakaway never solo! You can't hold on and you can't hang on so why bother.

Most lower Cat. races almost always end up in a group sprint so being a killer sprinter helps but most above all else is have a good, solid base of general fitness. That means having the endurance to last a complete race of whatever distance and the reserves to actually execute a strategy. Most people hang on for dear life and wing it. That's o.k. but you are competing against 40 other 'wing it's' at the same time and it seldom works. Know your strengths first.

Also the simple things...know your competition. Hang on the wheel of the best sprinter...free ride. Know and see who is squirrelly and stay the heck away...sprint crash! The last corner most people swing wide...do you need a lot of room to power up? Well? Do you? Then learn to corner more aggressively and be on the inside...everybody swings wide and you have open road until they compensate and come back into you but hopefully by then you've moved up and ahead. Remember don't be on the outside of a last corner sprint you will get boxed in and be more worried about crashing then sprinting. Listen to the other riders, cussing and yelling ... no I mean who is about to hurl...they will not be your worry, the quiet one who isn't even panting will be. And by no means always think the "big" guy is the fastest. It is not true...it's strength to weight. That toothpick will blow right by you so watch your competition.

As far as the the go and blow strategy of the first few laps of a crit...it works but let the time trial type riders do it for you, rabbits run fast but they are still dinner for most other animals so they ain't that smart if you know what I mean. Hang on through this phase of a bike race, know that 99% of lower category races are bunch sprints and work on that. Team work is very difficult in lower category races b/c most people can't execute it/don't know what to do or just want to try to win themselves (which they never do) so trying to buddy up with club/team mates is difficult to gain any real benefit.

I would say, roughly depending on a lot of things, having the ability to sprint in the 40-45 mph range is good and can be a strength. Being able to do 27 mph is good if you mean for an hour by yourself! If you really want to cream the guys there in lower categories nothing, I mean nothing is better than finding some fast 3's or 1/2's and ride with them as much as possible. Do their laundry whatever, you will learn alot. Learning from other 4's or 5's or even some 3's ... why? What do they know that you don't?

Take your life in your own hands but motorpacing is still the quickest way to get fast...if you have a velodrome nearby check into it.

That's all.

Your original post sort of answers your question. If you are on the front pulling the whole field around for two laps and then end up getting dropped, well....

STOP PULLING!

You are probably plenty fit to do well and not get gapped or lapped. Stay near the front but not at the front. Use your speed and sprint ability to try to stay 2-3 wheels from the front. In my experience, it seems easier for big guys not to lose wheels. So stay near the front and use your size to prevent anyone from knocking you off that second or third wheel.

Guys, it's a training crit. A "C" training crit. A 20 minute "C" training crit.

Wheel suck to the end? What's the point?

My advice? Go to the front, put your head down, TT and see how long you can stay there. Repeat until you can stay there for the entire training race or until someone comes around you. Hiding out of the wind isn't going to make you fitter, isn't going to tell you much about your capacity, and isn't going to teach you how to suffer.

Just make sure the coast is clear and veer around a bit to pi$$ people off and make them work some.

I don't know. Probably the most important thing to do before you learn to do anything else is to learn to follow wheels. If you can't do that and you're always the patsy on the front, you will not last long in any real race unless you are way stronger than the rest of the field.

At least the above seems true for the short intense crits we have around here. I never see anyone stay on the front the whole race and win.

But after you learn to follow wheels, then you are right that training races are fun to try crazy stuff.

In a 12-mile training crit last night, me and three teammates all tried to break away at the same time and ride a team trial. Didn't work but was super fun.

The thing about a training crit is that it's not just for fitness training. It can also be a dress-rehersal or a lab bench. So, you need to determine a clear goal before you start. In some training races, I am going out to learn how to break away successfully -- so I do whatever it takes to not be in the pack at the end. Either I'm off the front or out the back from trying. Other times I just want the fitness training, so I spend the whole time taking short pulls at the front, taking flyers on every hill, bringing back every break, etc.

Other times, though, I want to practice strategy, tactics, and efficiency. This is when I treat it like a real race. If I get to the the finish line in 1st place, and don't feel like I got a workout, it was a success.


One note on this technique: don't pedal slower than this guy's cadence. You can get a lot of information about what he's going to do just from an occasional glance at his cadence. If you match it, or pedal a little faster, you will not be caught in the wrong gear to respond to him.
I concur: training race can be about training to learn what it takes to win in a race + bike handling. fittness is a secondary goal in a training race. Fitness can be done on you're schedule. Racing is their schedule. The best is a training crit with a hill. Then you get both fitness and strategy training together.

I agree with the posts about improving your fitness.
If you can only hang for 12 minutes in a 7 mile crit, than wheel sucking won't help you.
You need to be able to sit in and last to the end relatively comfortably if you're going to be able to use your sprint.
Your sprint won't save you if you make it with the pack but are nearly blown at the last corner.
I'm willing to bet that there are guys in your field who can hang in the front, do a lot of work and still have gas in the tank for the finish sprint.

Actually, since this is a practice-crit, are you allowed to pull out for a free-lap and get back in? Around here, we go for an hour and there's random primes every once in a while. I've always found those are great for practicing breaks, lead-outs and sprints. Sometimes, I'll mis-time things slightly and end up getting completely toasted after the sprint. Then I'll just sit out a lap and hop back into the back of the pack when they come around again (next lap is usually slow after a prime).

Actually, since this is a practice-crit, are you allowed to pull out for a free-lap and get back in? Around here, we go for an hour and there's random primes every once in a while. I've always found those are great for practicing breaks, lead-outs and sprints. Sometimes, I'll mis-time things slightly and end up getting completely toasted after the sprint. Then I'll just sit out a lap and hop back into the back of the pack when they come around again (next lap is usually slow after a prime).

we don't have any primes in the C race...and I'm pretty sure we only get free-laps if there are mechanical issues...I'll ask next week because it would be good practice