Commuting - Alternative to Plastic Water Bottle

I just learned how damaging to the environment water bottles are. It's so bad that so governments are banning 'em. Has anyone found an alternative for the bottle cage? Something like aluminum or stainless steel, maybe.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06/san_francisco_m.php

Those plastic bags from grocery stores are pretty bad too. I'll have to ask for paper from now on.

so do you throw your bottles away after 1 or 2 uses? I get a few years of use out a my bottles.

I suppose you could use a camel-back or something along those lines.

That article talks about single serving bottles. Most people use the more durable reusable bottles.

sdime - you seem to have missed the point of that article entirely.

Ascent Aluminum Water Bottle- $6.99 @ Performance (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=22415&subcategory_ID=4341)

Zefal Aluminum Water Bottle- $5.99 @ Nashbar (http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=&sku=20024&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Show%20All%20Products)

I'm sure there are many others out there...just found these within a few minutes of looking around.

And yeah...the article was talking about single serving plastic water bottles that most people throw away after 1 use, not the reuseable plastic bottles commonly used by cyclists.

Aluminium bottles suck for cycling. I had a sigg bottle once, hot water in the winter burned my hand. Cold water in the summer had it sweating like crazy.

I just learned how damaging to the environment water bottles are. It's so bad that so governments are banning 'em. Has anyone found an alternative for the bottle cage? Something like aluminum or stainless steel, maybe.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06/san_francisco_m.php

Those plastic bags from grocery stores are pretty bad too. I'll have to ask for paper from now on.
It's scary how ill-informed you are. Bicycle water bottles are not single use applications. I get several years out of my bottles and when they're too messed up for use on the bike I reuse them in other applications on a per bottle basis.

As for Paper bags vs Plastic
Compared to paper grocery bags, plastic grocery bags consume 40 percent less energy, generate 80 percent less solid waste, produce 70 percent fewer atmospheric emissions, and release up to 94 percent fewer waterborne wastes.

If you REALLY want to make an impact you can do what we do in my household.

We do a larger portion of our shopping at Save-A-Lot (http://www.save-a-lot.com/) they actually CHARGE for bags there, but many of the item displays are done in their shipping boxes which makes them available to the consumer for free as well the stockers actually bring the boxes up to the front of the building near the check out lines where the consumer is also allowed to rummage to find an appropriate size box. The boxes that we've used have all been recycled.

In addition, we also bring our own cloth bags to the stores and/ or tell the cashier not to bag our items. The few plastic bags that we DO get are reused as garbage can liners and as receptacles for used cat litter.

My wife (an RN) and I sat around and did an evening's worth of research on the subject of water bottles and here's what we came up with:

- single-use: Bad environmentally. Don't re-use, or they might be bad health-wise.
- Polyethylene multi-use: Fine.
- Polycarbonate (Nalgene & imitations): Could be bad for you.
- Aluminum: Most aluminum bottles are-- guess what? Coated with epoxy on the inside, so they're technically plastic. Couldn't get the health implications of the epoxy involved, though.

Sure cloth bags are better for the enviroment and at some stores you can save a few nickles or dimes if you use them. But I like them most as they are durable, never break and can carry far more far more easily than any plastic or paper bag. I can fit 3x the items in one cloth bag vs. paper or plastic - and the wide cloth handle is more comfortable than the 'cutting' handle of three plastic bags. Otherwise I use a backpack or mess bag for shopping, when on bike.

Right now there are two plastic shopping bags hanging very high up in tall trees in full view from my back porch. They have been there for over 4mo. Maybe they are not as bad for the environment in manufacture, but when they get loose (from garbage bins, trucks, etc.) they persist in uglyness. Never seen a paper bag so ugly.

Only problem is since we don't get any plastic (or paper) bags anymore, we no longer have under sink garbage bags.

Al

- Aluminum: Most aluminum bottles are-- guess what? Coated with epoxy on the inside, so they're technically plastic. Couldn't get the health implications of the epoxy involved, though.

Real men use uncoated fuel bottles with raw aluminium. I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

Let's assume an average cyclist use one plastic bottle per year and an average cyclist cycle for 40 years. That's forty bottles per cyclist. Take that and times by total number of cyclists in the world. I'll guess that's a huge number. Besides, these bottles take hundreds of years to decompose. I prefer to use zero plastic bottle.

Regarding the grocery bags, I have thought about bringing my own cloth bags. I might try that soon. We've also stopped using plastic can liners, but it's been quite nasty. Garbage men probably don't like that idea either. I don't know how much longer that'll last.

I use the grocery bags as liners for the smaller trash cans around the house and they all get stuffed into 1 big bag at the end of the week.

I use the grocery bags as liners for the smaller trash cans around the house and they all get stuffed into 1 big bag at the end of the week.
That is what I used to do, but instead of stuffing them in one big bag, took the garbage out every day or two or three (its a short walk to the alley)

But now I don't have any more plastic grocery bags and I refuse to buy garbage bags. I guess I need to remember to 'forget' my cloth bags once in a while.

Al

Real men use uncoated fuel bottles with raw aluminium. I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

The thought had crossed my mind!

That is what I used to do, but instead of stuffing them in one big bag, took the garbage out every day or two or three (its a short walk to the alley)

But now I don't have any more plastic grocery bags and I refuse to buy garbage bags. I guess I need to remember to 'forget' my cloth bags once in a while.

Al

But when you took those tiny grocery bags out, where'd you put them? Our garbage dudes HATE like, humongous piles of tiny tiny bags.

But when you took those tiny grocery bags out, where'd you put them? Our garbage dudes HATE like, humongous piles of tiny tiny bags.
There is a giant (5' tall, 5' diameter) plastic garbage bin with lid on it in the alley - one bin serves perhaps 2-3 homes - collection comes by 1/wk and dumps contents into truck. The joys of suburban life.
Al

Let's assume an average cyclist use one plastic bottle per year and an average cyclist cycle for 40 years. That's forty bottles per cyclist. Take that and times by total number of cyclists in the world. I'll guess that's a huge number. Besides, these bottles take hundreds of years to decompose. I prefer to use zero plastic bottle.



The average cyclist uses 2 bottles which last about 10 years each. I certainly don't throw out my bottles after only one year!!


And .... are you willing to give me and all my coworkers a job, when you rid the world of plastics?

The average cyclist uses 2 bottles which last about 10 years each. I certainly don't throw out my bottles after only one year!!
I only ever aquired two water bottles in the past 3yrs. of heavy cycling, they both still work as good as new and will continue to for at least several more years. Loss is possible, but I'm pretty careful when and where I drink.

Al

Let's assume an average cyclist use one plastic bottle per year and an average cyclist cycle for 40 years. That's forty bottles per cyclist. Take that and times by total number of cyclists in the world. I'll guess that's a huge number. Besides, these bottles take hundreds of years to decompose. I prefer to use zero plastic bottle.

Again Bottles last WAY longer than a year. Most of mine are over 5 years old at this point, and the ones I've retired have been used for everything from shims to seedling pots.

Again Bottles last WAY longer than a year. Most of mine are over 5 years old at this point, and the ones I've retired have been used for everything from shims to seedling pots.


When I make my own powdered drink mixes I keep them in some of my older bottles, in the powdered state, not liquid.

And many plastic bottles can be taken down to your local recycling company rather than just tossing them out.

Bottom line is that whether you use one water bottle per year or for 5 or 10 years, thats not the problem. Its the yahoos who buy 1-3 per day and toss them that is the problem. 500+ per year!

Al

Let's assume an average cyclist use one plastic bottle per year and an average cyclist cycle for 40 years. That's forty bottles per cyclist.

Except some of us are so cheap our bottles last years.
This issue is unrelated to teh single use bottles that fill the trash cans.

.
This issue is unrelated to teh single use bottles that fill the trash cans.

On the issue of single use bottles ... don't most people recycle them? There are recycling bins for them EVERYWHERE! Unless I simply cannot locate a recycling bin (very rare), I toss all my recyclable bottles, cans, paper, etc. into those big blue bins.

On the issue of single use bottles ... don't most people recycle them? There are recycling bins for them EVERYWHERE! Unless I simply cannot locate a recycling bin (very rare), I toss all my recyclable bottles, cans, paper, etc. into those big blue bins.
I know I recycle them. Either the "official" way or I use them for other things around the house. I once fixed my old Mini systems five disc changer using half a plastic soda bottle cap.

There is a lot of hysterics about plastic water bottles copied around the web. Much of it is published by web sellers of competing products. As far as calling Nalgene bottles unsafe (those labeled with #7 on the molded bottom) due to the theoretical leaching properties of polycarbonate (phthalates), I suspect the risk is extremely low, probably nil (now no b**ch t*t jokes, please!). There certainly seems to be no sound evidence of leaching in typical use with consumable beverages. Most bottles get flushed, cleaned and stored dry (or at least drying), the leaching between filling to drinking is minimal. LDPE, (polyethylene, #4) seems to escape criticism. That is the material most cheap shop promo water bottles are molded from anyway.

As far as alternatives go, the Sigg and Sigg-copies are aluminum alloy with some kind of resin liner that is supposedly food safe. (Strangely, they are no longer considered fuel safe due to temperature-induced expansion of hydrocarbon stove fuels when filled and subsequent ruptures and leakage). I guess I am betraying my age, but I remember Sigg was the fuel bottle for backpacking, about the time the Svea 123 was the stove to use. Oh well. They look cool, anyway.

My only gripe about the Sigg is that they are thin-walled and dent easily and that bubble-topped twist-open spout is low-flow compared to squeezing a drink from a LDPE bottle. The steel bottles, like the Kleen Canteen have a retro cool look, but like other single-wall metal bottles, they don't insulate as well as the cheap plastic bottles, you can't squeeze them and they are heavier, if weight shaving is an issue. One nice thing is that they are wide-mouthed, so you can drink easily from them, like with a glass.

I have bought them all and I have come to the conclusion the plastic bottles, while not the best looking, are still the most practical. It doesn't hurt that they are a lot cheaper, either.

What we need is a titanium bottle.

"I'm sorry sir, your bike was completely totaled by the 18-wheeler after it fell off your roof. But your water bottle survived."

Pick up longneck beer bottles off the side of the road. Take them home, wash them, fill with water, stuff a cork in the neck, tape a rag of suffient thickness to fit a bottle cage and viola:
-You've helped clean up the evironment.
-You have a ready supply of free water bottles forever.
-Safe for reuse for centuries.

I've replaced plastic bags with 2 of these:
http://www.reusablebags.com/store/images/products_large/ACM-01-BL_ai.jpg
reusable bags (http://www.reusablebags.com/store/acme-bags-workhorse-style-1500-p-1.html)

Much tougher, won't rip, and hold about 30% more than a typical plastic grocery bag. Plus they fold up and fit neatly into your pocket.

I live in Bush country, i.e., Texas, where most people are too cynical to recycle. My neighbors think Global Warming is a hoax, and they have a natural right to generate as much trash as possible.

Our neighborhood subdivision just recently voted down a plan to require homeowners separate the recyclable material from the trash. Apparently, putting plastic and glass bottom and newspaper into a separate bin is too much of a hassle for the people in this neighborhood.


On the issue of single use bottles ... don't most people recycle them? There are recycling bins for them EVERYWHERE! Unless I simply cannot locate a recycling bin (very rare), I toss all my recyclable bottles, cans, paper, etc. into those big blue bins.

I live in Bush country, i.e., Texas, where most people are too cynical to recycle. My neighbors think Global Warming is a hoax, and they have a natural right to generate as much trash as possible.

Our neighborhood subdivision just recently voted down a plan to require homeowners separate the recyclable material from the trash. Apparently, putting plastic and glass bottom and newspaper into a separate bin is too much of a hassle for the people in this neighborhood.
Move

I'm working in the aerospace industry. The option is limited.

On the issue of single use bottles ... don't most people recycle them? There are recycling bins for them EVERYWHERE! Unless I simply cannot locate a recycling bin (very rare), I toss all my recyclable bottles, cans, paper, etc. into those big blue bins.
In both work locations for my current employer there are absolutely no recycle bins for anything except paper. :(
I've mentioned it but they just say their service doesn't provide recyling.

I see you also live in Bush country.

On the issue of single use bottles ... don't most people recycle them? There are recycling bins for them EVERYWHERE! Unless I simply cannot locate a recycling bin (very rare), I toss all my recyclable bottles, cans, paper, etc. into those big blue bins.

throwing plastic bottles in the trash = bad
recycling plastic bottles = better
not generating the wasteful consumption of plastic bottles in the first place = much better

On the issue of single use bottles ... don't most people recycle them? There are recycling bins for them EVERYWHERE! Unless I simply cannot locate a recycling bin (very rare), I toss all my recyclable bottles, cans, paper, etc. into those big blue bins.

Yes, but they don't recycle into more bottles. They only "recycle" down, into less-desirable products. The supply of material exceeds demand at this point, and probably always will.

You mean these?
"Swiss Engineered...." It's got to be good, then.
http://www.mysigg.com/ProductImages/MYSIGG/8067.30.JPG

http://www.healthegoods.com/images/products/kanteens.jpg


There is a lot of hysterics about plastic water bottles copied around the web. Much of it is published by web sellers of competing products. As far as calling Nalgene bottles unsafe (those labeled with #7 on the molded bottom) due to the theoretical leaching properties of polycarbonate (phthalates), I suspect the risk is extremely low, probably nil (now no b**ch t*t jokes, please!). There certainly seems to be no sound evidence of leaching in typical use with consumable beverages. Most bottles get flushed, cleaned and stored dry (or at least drying), the leaching between filling to drinking is minimal. LDPE, (polyethylene, #4) seems to escape criticism. That is the material most cheap shop promo water bottles are molded from anyway.

As far as alternatives go, the Sigg and Sigg-copies are aluminum alloy with some kind of resin liner that is supposedly food safe. (Strangely, they are no longer considered fuel safe due to temperature-induced expansion of hydrocarbon stove fuels when filled and subsequent ruptures and leakage). I guess I am betraying my age, but I remember Sigg was the fuel bottle for backpacking, about the time the Svea 123 was the stove to use. Oh well. They look cool, anyway.

My only gripe about the Sigg is that they are thin-walled and dent easily and that bubble-topped twist-open spout is low-flow compared to squeezing a drink from a LDPE bottle. The steel bottles, like the Kleen Canteen have a retro cool look, but like other single-wall metal bottles, they don't insulate as well as the cheap plastic bottles, you can't squeeze them and they are heavier, if weight shaving is an issue. One nice thing is that they are wide-mouthed, so you can drink easily from them, like with a glass.

I have bought them all and I have come to the conclusion the plastic bottles, while not the best looking, are still the most practical. It doesn't hurt that they are a lot cheaper, either.

All the places I've worked here in Alberta (I do temp jobs in between and during college) have extensive recycling programs. Right outside my current office room (and conveniently located inside the building) are several HUGE blue bins for paper, cans, glass, plastic, etc.

All the colleges I've attended both here in Alberta and also in Manitoba over the past 10 years have had similar recycling programs.

My apartment building in Manitoba got recycling blue bins about 6 years I ago, and the place I live now has had recycling even longer than that.

A quick glance in the phone book and I see 32 recycling businesses in this local area containing maybe 100,000 -120,000 people.

So ... sdime, rest assured that at least Canadian cyclists aren't just tossing out their old bicycle bottles and other plastics. :) And I suspect that there are similar recycling programs in other countries too.

not generating the wasteful consumption of plastic bottles in the first place = much better

I'm sorry ... but in a way, I actually have to disagree. :)

I'm sorry ... but in a way, I actually have to disagree. :)

But you're not going to tell us in what way that actually is?

Yup, plastic takes a long time to decompose. Solution? Burn them.
Seriously, I have 3 cheap water bottles that came with the kids cheap walmart bikes, and I've been using them for the last 3 years. The alternative would have been to throw them away, so I figure I'm at zero impact so far.

Yeah OK, if a cyclist uses 30 water bottles in his lifetime, that's about equal to what I've seen some single people at work going through in 2 weeks. I'm not sweating it personally. After all, I could be tilling my entire lawn into garden and growing my own food, and I could be running my computer off solar, and my car off biodiesel. Any one of those would be vastly more impact than a water bottle every few years.

I use a stainless steel Klean Kanteen most of the time, but on my fixed gear I don't have any bottle cages so I wear a hip pack with a water bottle holder and for that I prefer the fit of a plastic water bottle. As someone who uses both stainless steel and plastic bottles, I can say for certain water tastes much better coming out of the steel container.

My water might get a little warmer in the summer in the steel bottle than in plastic, but I don't mind drinking warm water...but warm water in the plastic bottle has a strange taste. Also, I like the fact that if I'm camping, I can heat my steel bottles for hot water if needed.

But you're not going to tell us in what way that actually is?

I work in Alberta ... in the oil and gas industry. The company I work for makes plastics ... you know ... the little plastic beads that go into making things like ... plastic grocery bags and bicycle bottles. :D :D

It's kind of important to me to keep the production of those sorts of things going. :D

Move
That does no good. If everyone who desired work to improve an area left, it would remain, well, unimproved. It is all part of the world we live in, just cause one doesn't live there, doesn't mean the damage is not being done, or that it doesn't affect you indirectly at least.

Anyway, I do know there are some place in Texas that have municipal recycling programs and other place that are so sparsely populated, it can't be worth recycling on an organizied basis.

Al

I think a lot of the polyester wicking fabrics are mostly made of recycled plastic bottles, right?

Anyway, Soma makes some bottles that don't leach chemicals, if you're interested http://www.glorycycles.com/socrpowabo.html Just seal 'em really tight or your gatorade will leak out all over your bottom bracket.

And to throw in a couple more cents, I use one of these (http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=1&catalogId=1&langId=-1&categoryId=35198&sc1=Search&feat=sr) for grocery shopping and other stuff. It's pretty much indestructible (i've put in about 70 pounds of stuff in it before) and when it gets dirty you can just hose it down.

And if you wanna get really depressed, check out these articles about how all the plastic crap we throw away ends up in the oceans and chokes all kinds of sea life to death.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/oceans/la-me-ocean2aug02,1,7826699,full.story

(This article is a little less depressing)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0620/p01s03-woeu.htm

All the (dare I say it?) hipsters are using those Sigg bottles now, I guess for the retro look. They come in some neat designs now too, but for around 20 bucks, I'll stick with my cycling water bottles which are easy to drink from and haven't failed me yet.

I had an aluminum bottle that resembled that top SIG I used for a year. It was a very pretty purple, and worked well. Except when hot or very cold. I only got a years use out of it b/c the threads at the cap stripped. I imagine the Sig will do the same. The Nalgene I have has a drop-in filter, which is tops. I do miss my white fuel bottle however....so pretty. Regardless, plastic bottles I have used worked better.

Just burn them. Rain will clean the air. :)
Actually we recycle almos everything and plastic, aluminum etc is recycled for my school. We have teams as to who can recycle the most. Winning team gets a pizza party on school time. :)

$2.50 -- http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=72&subcategory=1024&brand=&sku=20009&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Bottles

I live in Bush country, i.e., Texas, where most people are too cynical to recycle. My neighbors think Global Warming is a hoax, and they have a natural right to generate as much trash as possible.

Our neighborhood subdivision just recently voted down a plan to require homeowners separate the recyclable material from the trash. Apparently, putting plastic and glass bottom and newspaper into a separate bin is too much of a hassle for the people in this neighborhood.

Seriously? That's incredible. My city has had a "blue box" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Box_(container)) recycling program in place for over 20 years!!

"Those plastic bags from grocery stores are pretty bad too. I'll have to ask for paper from now on." The plastic bags probably use less fossil fuels than paper. Most fertilizer is for example made of natural gas. I would suggest reusing plastic bags. Paper requires allot of processing. The paper industy is being screwed by the "paperless" world so they are trying to for people to buy paper whatevers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber

As to water bottles, stop drinking liquids. Try fruit like bananas. I knew a guy who guided a tour in a rain forest. The porters each brought a bag of potatoes as their hydration system.

BTW, in many municipalities it is illegal to charge for/sell tap water in local stores/restaurants. So they sell bottled water instead.