View Full Version : Actionbent or Bacchetta
Artkansas
06-26-07, 03:27 PM
I'm looking at recumbents. So far the leading candidates are the Bacchetta Cafe and the Actionbent Jet Stream 3. The Actionbent leads in my mind for price and better gearing. The Bacchetta leads because there is a dealer nearby and fenders available. I took a short ride on the Bacchetta, but cannot test ride an Actionbent.
What do people know about these two or perhaps others in the price range?
BlazingPedals
06-26-07, 08:29 PM
Test ride, test ride, test ride! And when you're done with that, start all over. How many test rides have you done yet? Those are two very different bikes. Why are they the leading candidates?
aikigreg
06-26-07, 11:55 PM
Bachetta - not even close.
Artkansas
06-27-07, 09:24 AM
Test ride, test ride, test ride! And when you're done with that, start all over. How many test rides have you done yet? Those are two very different bikes. Why are they the leading candidates?
I understand. My problem is that I don't think I can test ride an actionbent. They don't have a local dealer and no one I know owns one. So far I have just done a quick test ride on the Bacchetta. I plan to do a longer one this week.
Artkansas
06-27-07, 09:25 AM
Bachetta - not even close.
Can you elaborate?
aikigreg
06-27-07, 09:47 AM
Can you elaborate?
American company, known for quality, phenomenal service, proven people and performance, high quality, great value. I could go on and on, but Bachetta is the number 1 bent company, in my book. They go out of their way to make people happy and support their product. If they made a lowracer I'd jump ship in a heartbeat.
BlazingPedals
06-27-07, 10:01 AM
I understand. My problem is that I don't think I can test ride an actionbent. They don't have a local dealer and no one I know owns one. So far I have just done a quick test ride on the Bacchetta. I plan to do a longer one this week.
No RANS, no EasyRacers and/or Sun? Part of the problem with your inquiry is that we don't know what you'd like any more than you do. The Cafe is OSS, the Jetstream III is USS. All I can advise is like Greg, to say that the 'big names' in bent-dom, i.e. Bacchetta, RANS, EasyRacers, Lightning, Barcroft, even Sun, are in a higher plane of existence than AB, which is nothing more than a China Mascot product, rebranded, and sold through mass-market. As one example of the difference in quality, the Bacchetta has a lifetime frame warranty, the AB has none.
Being a price leader in the bent world, Actionbent is a brand many of us 'love to hate' but it does have one advantage: it's cheap. Sometimes that's not only the priority, it's the ONLY issue.
SoonerBent
06-27-07, 10:34 AM
I had much the same dilemma a year and a half ago. A Bacchetta Corsa was $2000 and an AB was half that. I got the Bacchetta and am glad I did. One, as BlazingPedals pointed out the big names are on a different plane in terms of fit, finish, warranty, etc. Two, Bacchetta has a great forum with lots of knowledge among its members. Three, the Bachetta factory guys are quick to answer calls or emails about anything from really important stuff to silly questions. And they are great about very quickly replacing parts that have failed. I've not had any failures but I know of a few who have and they got great, fast service. I did email once to say I really liked the new head badges and a few days later one came in the mail.
banerjek
06-27-07, 10:56 AM
Being a price leader in the bent world, Actionbent is a brand many of us 'love to hate' but it does have one advantage: it's cheap. Sometimes that's not only the priority, it's the ONLY issue.
I'm not convinced they are that much cheaper when you consider all factors. With the other brands, you get a much higher level of service. For example, if the OP goes with the Bacchetta, he won't have to pay shipping or assemble it himself, and most decent shops include tuneups.
Pretty much the entire AB line is significantly heavier than the products they mimic, and they cut corners on many components. This is reflected in the price, but it's something to take into consideration. The Corsa that SoonerBent got is a sweet ride. I almost got one myself, except the Seiran SL in my avatar is even nicer (21# honest weight and it handles like a dream -- picked it up used for the same price as a new Corsa.)
If AB is in your price range and the competition isn't, I think you may be much happier buying something else used. Besides, then you can take a test ride before buying.
Trsnrtr
06-27-07, 05:33 PM
I'm not convinced they are that much cheaper when you consider all factors. With the other brands, you get a much higher level of service. For example, if the OP goes with the Bacchetta, he won't have to pay shipping or assemble it himself, and most decent shops include tuneups.
Pretty much the entire AB line is significantly heavier than the products they mimic, and they cut corners on many components. This is reflected in the price, but it's something to take into consideration. The Corsa that SoonerBent got is a sweet ride. I almost got one myself, except the Seiran SL in my avatar is even nicer (21# honest weight and it handles like a dream -- picked it up used for the same price as a new Corsa.)
If AB is in your price range and the competition isn't, I think you may be much happier buying something else used. Besides, then you can take a test ride before buying.
Another thing to consider about the AB is that they come pretty much unassembled, or at least they used to. A friend of mine has one, and despite being an extremely accomplished mechanic, had a hard time getting the bike set up properly. It was like they just threw a bunch of out dated parts in the box with the frame and never worried about whether they worked with the frame in harmony.
And since you mentioned the Seiran SL, I have to say sweeeeeeeet. :)
Can only speak for the Cafe because my wife rides one. She likes the ride, I like the quality. Have had zero issues with the bike either from her viewpoint as a rider or mine as lead mechanic.
I've spent a lot of time on the Cafe, and I loved the ride. It wasn't mine, but I got to ride it regularly, and were I to be able to buy another bike, this would be it. I once called Bacchetta to give a little feedback on the Cafe, and found them to be appreciative and their responses to be personable and helpful.
OTOH, I once seriously entertained the possibility of buying an Actionbent because of the price. I spent a lot of time trying to communicate with the owner/importer, and received cryptic incomplete information, and never received responses to many of my questions. I would avoid this company like the plague.
If you're considering an ActionBent, know that there is a great little Yahoo! Groups ActionBent forum on the 'net. It's probably your best resource for everything to do with TW-Bents bikes (the brand that ActionBent and I sell). You may even find an AB owner on there that lives close to you, who is willing to let you test ride their bike.
Sandwarrior
06-28-07, 10:35 AM
I have the Baccetta Agio, and I have to say their service department is great. My seatback was slipping off the back posts and the only way to correct it (properly) was to remove the wire ties holding it together and readjust the seat. My LB wouldn't do the work, instead slapped a couple more wire ties along the top cross bar to keep the back from slipping further. My LB (Bacchetta liscensed) said it was a common problem due to the nylon shrinking. When I e-mailed Bacchetta, They were astounded at wht my LB said, and then sent out a whole new set of ties for my set back twice, free of charge (the first set were stolen out of my mailbox). They answered my e-mails in under a day, where my LB took more than a week.
Artkansas
06-28-07, 11:18 AM
No RANS, no EasyRacers and/or Sun? Part of the problem with your inquiry is that we don't know what you'd like any more than you do.
Yes, there is a lot to sort through. I was asking for experiences not necessarily recommendations for me.
I guess my starting points for looking are
About $1000.
Able to fit on bus bike rack (Sportworks says 48" wheelbase or less)
Low enough gears to climb hills as all the terrain around my apartment is hilly
Able to do a 40-80 mile day on occasion.
Of course I want as much quality as I can afford.
I want a bike that is stable yet has fairly good handling.
I want reasonable customer support or parts availability
And I like fenders and racks.
Some like the Lightning and Barcroft are just out of my league cost-wise. The local dealer quit carrying Rans because he said he had quality issues with them. I'm not looking for a long wheelbase recumbent, that put the Sun and the Easy Racers out. Its a strong argument against the Cafe even.
For me there are factors like there is only one recumbent dealer in the state and he sells only one line of recumbents. i've yet to see a used recumbent being sold locally.
There are not many recumbent riders locally. I know of 4. One is the dealer himself. Another built his from scratch, a third rides an Easy Racer, and the 4th has a low racer from a company that is out of business.
I've been to BentRider OnLine and joined the Actionbent yahoo group. So I'm looking around.
carcassonne
06-28-07, 05:48 PM
I bought an ActionBent HiRacer about a month ago. Never rode a recumbent before, and never tried one. But I read about them quite a lot and read the forums for impressions. I'm very glad of the HiRacer for both the price and the quality. Mind you, I've been taking apart bikes for quite some time, as a hobby of some sort. So I assembled rather slowly the HiRacer in one evening and then adjusted the chain length the next morning. There were no problems, but I had to tap the boom to get it to the proper length, which is not a real problem. After a week of riding I made other adjustements, mainly to the handlebar and brake lever positions and now it's quite good.
One striking characteristic of the bike once assembled, is that it is very light. I'd say lighter than my Cannondale BadBoy. It's impressive.
Next was getting used to it. I'm still developing the set of leg muscles that could ultimately lead to the same ratio of speed/ease of use as on a regular bike. You know, when you just fly by easily. On a recumbent the dynamics are not the same. It's harder to get to that point because it's easier to get going. And then when you push, the other set of muscles are getting exercised. Those, for the HiRacer, are mostly on the front of the legs, behind the knees, towards the hips.
These things aside, which may be more or less the same depending on the recumbent shape, I find that the foam cushion of the AB HiRacer makes it so that it's easy to get a lot of sweat in the back. I'm thinking of chaning for another type of seat cushion, namely a Ventisit. But this is not that much annoying and I find that I now sweat less than 2 weeks ago.
As for service, I find that the AB guys are quite dedicated. I ordered a repair stand with the bike and it was missing. So I wrote once and got no reply. Then I wrote once more and it was shipped right away and I got it inside a week. I do not think anyone is perfect and I can tolerate this little event in the light of the price paid for the bike and the quality of the bike itself.
One thing to mention: on the very first evening I tried it (after trying for 15 minutes to get past the end of the driveway - but that's another story) I lost the headrest cushion on a path somewhere. It was dark and the next morning I didn't found it. That was my mistake for not fixing it properly (i.e. there's a cloth sleeve that now I squeeze between the seat frame and the headrest mount).
All in all I really like the AB HiRacer. Great bike, easy to use, easy to go forward and get speed. The two 26" x 1" wheels makes it so that the rider sits a bit higher and also makes it so that the chain does not need a pulley, pulling in a straight line from the top of the cranks to the rear wheel cogs. I can also hang a regular bike rear pannier off the top of the seat while waiting to install a proper pannier rack over the rear wheel.
In brief:
It's a great bike at a great price. You must know how to put bikes together, especially opening/closing chains.
Cheers.
jab1362
06-28-07, 06:43 PM
I have a Giro 26 and agree with everyone else on the companies quality, and customer service that said you might want to look at a Rans Rocket. New they are about $1,000.00.
Joe
Dahon.Steve
06-28-07, 07:18 PM
I'm looking at recumbents. So far the leading candidates are the Bacchetta Cafe and the Actionbent Jet Stream 3. The Actionbent leads in my mind for price and better gearing. The Bacchetta leads because there is a dealer nearby and fenders available. I took a short ride on the Bacchetta, but cannot test ride an Actionbent.
What do people know about these two or perhaps others in the price range?
I test rode the Cafe and it reminded me of the Rans Tailwind which was discontinued. I actually liked it better than the Tailwind because the that famous rans handlebar shakes a little too much. It felt safer than the Giro 26 which made my feet feel strange after a while.
If the Cafe would fold in half so I could take it one trains, I would have purchased it. Very nice bike.
dpage44
06-28-07, 09:59 PM
I'm looking at recumbents. So far the leading candidates are the Bacchetta Cafe and the Actionbent Jet Stream 3. The Actionbent leads in my mind for price and better gearing. The Bacchetta leads because there is a dealer nearby and fenders available. I took a short ride on the Bacchetta, but cannot test ride an Actionbent.
What do people know about these two or perhaps others in the price range?
I have an Actionbent Tidalwave3. It was my first recumbent and i bought it new. I am a tinkerer at heart and I knew there were some issues with assembly and the lack of instructions before I bought it. The frame is well constructed and the welds are beautiful. The wheels were nice. The rest of the components were low end....they worked but they had there issues. The cables were not of the right length and I had to rig the shift cables to have the proper slack. ( 2 yrs later and I'm still waiting for the replacement cables). The seat bottom did not meet the frame properly and had to be modified. I spent around 1100.00 for the bike and about 6hrs assembling. I have spent another 800-900 on a suspended front fork, new BB, new headset, shortened cranks, ramped and pinned gears, new cabling, a new idler pulley, foam seat pad, XTR rear derailler, and DuraAce bar end shifters. It is a nice ride now. :D
I just bought a used Optima Baron for about the same amount as invested in the AB. It has the gusseted frame, a new Bachetta fork, a new headset, tuned up, Fast back carbon bag, Magura Jule disk brakes, Sram XO rear and Ultegra Triple front deraileurs pared with Sram X-9 push-push shifters, Bontrager Race X-lite carbon triple cranks (170's), and carbon Optima seat (2003 Baron Pro model). There is no comparison in quality. I originally wanted a Baron. I too was drawn to AB because of the price, but if I had it to do over again, I would have saved my money and bought the baron. I would recommend buying a well maintained,quality used bike over a low end new model. Also,the quality stuff seems to retain its resale value. I also bought a used '06 Catrike Speed for a good price. Both the Baron and the Speed were found on the BROL forum.
If you can get a low milage Bachetta for a great deal... buy it... You can't go wrong that way... but full retail? I can't go there personally.
If you want a well equiped 'bent at a great deal, Actionbent is a great option. You don't get that personal attention... your 'importer' knows little about the product (more than other importers!)... the factory (TW/Bents) does care about your experience... and you have to do your homework! Homework: learn about the specific model(s) you are interested in. There are dull stones and diamonds in the rough when it comes to Actionbent models.
So what is a little research worth in $? Probably around $500-.
FlyingAnchor
06-28-07, 11:43 PM
I bought a Bacchetta Agio for under your $1,000 used. my only complaint is it didn't come with a big enough motor. :) It is well made and strong.
There are used bikes out there to be had and I think that is a better way to go for your money.
Steven
Artkansas
06-30-07, 02:31 PM
I test rode a Bacchetta Giro 20 yesterday. For the most part, I liked it. So far it's the only one meeting most of my criteria, low enough gears, will fit on a bus rack, it has optional racks mid and rear, reasonable engineering and weight. The only thing that really bothered me was the high speed instabilty. The slightest adjustment of the handlebar put me over the line. I assume that some of this would work itself out as I learned it. But still it seemed pretty sketchy on a fast downhill.
It would be nice to buy used. I'm not finding a whole lot of sources locally. And perhaps this speaks well for Bacchetta, not a whole lot of Bacchettas when I look at national sources like ebay and BentRiderOnline.
carcassonne
07-01-07, 08:16 PM
Just my two cents, and based on the AB HiRacer experience, I'd say go for a same size wheel at least, like the Giro 26 for some $300 more. You'd get more velocity than a big and a small wheel.
This being said, if I'd had to choose I'd still get the AB HiRacer. I don't know why Bachetta is not routing the chain straight from the chainrings to the cogs but make it go through a pulley instead. Yes, the chain probably wouldn't go by the seat, but that's a design choice.
Regarding the ads on Ebay, there's not much for the AB bikes I think if you exclude the ads put by the company itself.
I own both the Actionbent Highracer and the Giro 20.
Giro 20 2005 Blue: Great bike great company as others have said. I had to drive 100 mi south of me to test drive it. Once I decided to buy one the dealer had to order one in medium size. When I drove back the next weekend to pick-up the Giro the dealer had installed a free computer, bottle cage and mirror. He said That was the bike show package and it was free for my troubles. I now have 1K miles on the bike and it is a keeper. It does all things well. I use it for commuting and excersize rides. I changed the seat from Recurve to Euromesh and it changed the flavor of the Giro 20 (read more sporty). Its been 2 years now and I'm still having an affair with the Giro. Love it.
Actionbent Highracer: Bought about 1 year ago when they were still selling with the FSA Carbon Cranks. Another great bike that I wish people would get past the price and actually see the bike. Easy to assemble and easy to ride. I test rode the Giro 26 and find the Actionbent HR far easier to handle because of its lower bb and seat height. After assy I bought the bike to work and weighed it on our Toledo shipping scale it was 27.0 lbs exactly. I did make a change to the chainline. I also cut the steering riser by 1" and cut the boom about 3". Removed the factory cushion which feels hard and installed 1" foam pad from Power-on-cycling. I also installed Schwalbe Stelvios on front and rear. The Aluminum frame does give a slightly stiff feeling ride. Typical of Aluminum. I set the Stelvios at 105 lbs and find the ride is fine at that pressure (115 lbs max). Its just feels light and the bike goes like stink. Here IMHO are some design differences between Bachetta HR and Actionbent HR:
1) Bacchetta HR use a straight frame that does have some minor flex over bumps. Gives you a smoother ride over the rough stuff. The AB HR with its big tube aluminum frame does not give and rides a bit rougher on bumpy stuff. Longer wheelbase on the Bachetta also helps in this regard.
2) Handlebar: The AB HR uses the praying hampster and the Bacchetta uses the Superman positon. Fortunately I can go with either. This is my second Actionbent (the road runner being my first) and the cockpit on the HR has much more room and is more open than the road runner but not quite as open as a Bacchetta.
3) Bacchettas have an adjustable seat position and the Actionbent HR does not. This is not terribly bad as you can adjust the boom. The recline does take some getting used to at first but the more you ride the more it feels natural. I tried the headrest that was included with the bike but ride without it now. I find it imobilizes my head.
4) At 25" seat height and 25"bb height the AB HR is easy to ride. Bacchettas with their 32" bb give you a smaller wind shadow and its one reason they will always be faster. I'm doing about 26 mph on the flats and thats fast enough for me as I dont ride in pace lines.
It would help if you like to tinker and like to change things when buying an Actionbent. Mech skills are helpful. They changed the cranks to Aluminum and I noticed they upped the weight in the specs to 29 lbs. Not sure why.
I changed the rear cassette that came with the AB HR from 12-26 to 11-32. I find it climbs better with this gearing.
Hope this helps.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/xlr8also/stel3.jpg
mcjabos
07-26-07, 11:32 AM
you may have already made your purchase, but i thought i'd weigh in.
i got a cafe this winter and have no complaints. i ride the blue ridge parkway (western north carolina) with very fit mountain bikers -- i've toured on it in hill country of texas (60-70 mile days with gear in steep terrain)-- i go to the local raceway and get some good speed going.
the handle bar feeling will work itself out. you just have to relax.
the handle bar swings around and will lay down on the seat, so it fits nicely on my bike rack with other bikes (trailer hitch rack).
and having someone close by that can answer those first weeks of questions and do some adjustments and get you a box if you want to fly with it is really helpful.
good luck
mm
I own both the Actionbent Highracer and the Giro 20.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/xlr8also/stel3.jpg
Holy Cow! That really is a short-wheelbase bent....you find that it is stable at higher speeds?
Can you measure the distance between hubs for me - just curious how close they are.
BlazingPedals
07-26-07, 02:19 PM
The website lists the wheelbase as 38 inches. That's extremely short, especially for a SWB with reclined seating. I'm also wondering about the power side chain routing. Please tell me you've installed an idler! Nice comparison to the Bacchetta, though.
Holy Cow! That really is a short-wheelbase bent....you find that it is stable at higher speeds?
Can you measure the distance between hubs for me - just curious how close they are.
Are you sitting down? The measured distance between the hubs is 35". Actionbent lists the bike as 38". Yes I thought so too until I started to trust it and the bike is quite stable. I call it a SSWB (super short wheelbase). You would think that a wheelbase this short might have surprises like a lifting rear under hard braking but not so. I've yet to be surprised.
The website lists the wheelbase as 38 inches. That's extremely short, especially for a SWB with reclined seating. I'm also wondering about the power side chain routing. Please tell me you've installed an idler! Nice comparison to the Bacchetta, though.
Yes quite short. This bike begs you to calm down and relax a bit more than others :) The problem with a power side idler is that it would rub yout thigh and stick out too far. That wire arrangement from the factory seems temporary so here is my fix:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/xlr8also/Hiracer/chain2.jpg
BTW of the three bikes I own this is the quietest drive train and smoothest shifting. The SRAM 990 (installed at LBS) cassette helps.
Yes quite short. This bike begs you to calm down and relax a bit more than others :) The problem with a power side idler is that it would rub yout thigh and stick out too far. That wire arrangement from the factory seems temporary so here is my fix:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/xlr8also/Hiracer/chain2.jpg
BTW of the three bikes I own this is the quietest drive train and smoothest shifting. The SRAM 990 (installed at LBS) cassette helps.
That chainline is in such need of an idler... I just can't help but post. Chaintubes should NEVER be used to guide the power side chain. I would say, put an idler under the seat and properly "suspend" the chaintube about where it is. It is no wonder that it is a quite drivetrain :p
cat0020
07-27-07, 07:58 AM
How much more power is lost when using chaintubes vs chain idler, 10%, 20%?
How often do you need to replace a chaintube vs chain idler?
I kinda see the chaintube as way of keeping the chain cleaner, simpler/different way to fix chainline problem. If the bike works that's all it matter.
As long as you have some mechanical skills and interested in setting up a bicyle to fit the way you want it to fit you, Actiaonbent actually is much more economical and sensable choice... and things like frame warranty and customer service will be there if you know how to ask for it the right way, regardless whether or not it's on paper.
I have no reservations about using chaintubes. They work great to keep your slacks clean when you commute to work. They really shouldn't be used to divert the chainline. The power loss will be minimal until you begin wearing the tube and then the resistance will increase quickly. A little attention to the chainline pays you back with every ride. And a quality idler with such a minor deflection really shouldn't wear out and should, at worst case, rob you of less than a few watts.
Artkansas
08-15-07, 02:26 PM
http://www.bacchettabikes.com/images/bikes/giro20_med.jpg
Well, I sprung for the Giro 20. I just picked it up this morning. Its like the picture except that is has fenders, kickstand and a rear rack. I've yet to get the lights and reflectors on it and I'm still looking for an appropriate lock. Looks like some of the high-end kryptonites may do the job.
The deciding factors were that it was hard to find an Actionbent to test ride. Hard to find any used bents too. I could simply order the accessories for the Bacchetta, I didn't have to search for them. The local Bacchetta dealer was within walking distance and rides a Bacchetta himself, and he is a member of the Bicycle Advocacy of Central Arkansas as I am. I guess as Lance said, It wasn't about the bike so much as service, relationships and giving back to the local economy. :p
The Giro 20 is a keeper that you will be happy with. Looks good in Yellow and black. My local bacchetta dealer is in the next state so you are lucky on that front. I've got 1000 miles since 05 with not a problem. Enjoy it.
5port
Giro 20
AB HR
RANS Fusion
carcassonne
08-16-07, 03:44 PM
That chainline is in such need of an idler... I just can't help but post. Chaintubes should NEVER be used to guide the power side chain. I would say, put an idler under the seat and properly "suspend" the chaintube about where it is. It is no wonder that it is a quite drivetrain :p
I did try it on my AB HiRacer. I mean, to add a clip to hold the top tube. But I much prefer letting it loose, direct to the cogs. I also checked it out with a mechanical engineer at work and his opinion is that the straighter the line, the better. So I wouldn't see why an idler would be needed. Why not just keep the torque line straight to the cogs ?
Cheers.
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