Foo - Ooooooooooooo SHINY!!!!!

Are Doctors being too loose with their verdict of attention deficit dissorder or are our kids just more skrewed up then we were? I CAN"T TELL but all I know is that kids that take their ridallen aren't themselves and I don't like it.

Are Doctors being too loose with their verdict of attention deficit dissorder or are our kids just more skrewed up then we were? I CAN"T TELL but all I know is that kids that take their ridallen aren't themselves and I don't like it.

I am 42, they wanted to put me on drugs for ADD when I was a child, before they started going overboard with it as they are today. My mother refused to do it. Found out later in life that I was a little brighter then average, so probably was just getting bored too easily. I think there probably are such things as ADD and ADHD, but that its WAYYYYYYYYYY over-diagnosed, and teachers are looking for an easy way to pacify. I think teachers probably have much larger class sizes then when I was younger also, so it must be harder for them to control a bunch of energetic little people. The situation is sad really.

I agree completely!

It's way too overdone now...

Are Doctors being too loose with their verdict of attention deficit dissorder or are our kids just more skrewed up then we were? I CAN"T TELL but all I know is that kids that take their ridallen aren't themselves and I don't like it.
both

Are Doctors being too loose with their verdict of attention deficit dissorder or are our kids just more skrewed up then we were? I CAN"T TELL but all I know is that kids that take their ridallen aren't themselves and I don't like it.



uh-hem.. ; *disorder* .. *screwed* .. *ritalin* (*take some*).. :) :beer:

Actually, the diagnosis for disorders is changing rapidly too, as is the understanding of disorders.
Take autism for instance, that's one I've read a bit about, it used to be a clearcut yes or no to the diagnosis, but now it's much more of a 'spectrum' disorder with varying levels of autism as per the autism spectrum.

I think ADD is over-diagnosed....if that many are ADD than just maybe ADD is actually normal.

Think about it, if everyone is claimed to have a psychological disorder (the same one), then wouldn't it be true that everyone was normal, since after all psychology is based on societal norms?

I think ADD is over-diagnosed....if that many are ADD than just maybe ADD is actually normal.

Think about it, if everyone is claimed to have a psychological disorder (the same one), then wouldn't it be true that everyone was normal, since after all psychology is based on societal norms?
They should ban ritalin and give speed to normal kids.

Ritalin is closer to cocaine actually.
ADD was first called reward deficiency disorder I believe. It had to do with an inhibition to dopamine release in the brain coupled with an apparant lack of a filter between stimuli and problems with focusing. This has been said to be due to an abnormality in the areas of the substantia nigra and locus ceruleus parts of the brain. The substantia nigra controls dopamineragic response and is the center for reward response and addiction. The locus ceruleus deals more with focus and response to stress.

One of the reasons the diagnosis of ADD/ADHD is more common today is simply the research behind it. The disorder was not well known even as late as the 80's and much perscription didn't occur until the 1990's. There is a strong link to alcoholism and heredity with ADD. That is, it's found that if any of the parents were chronic alcoholics, their kids are likely to be prone to addiction and have ADD. This is not always the case, but there is a very strong correlation. I've been reading a book by doctors David Miller and Kenneth Blum on the matter. The correlation between ADD and alcoholism was seen first when working with relapse alcoholics.

That said, ADD today is over diagnosed and way overmedicated. There are still people who believe it either doesn't exist or is due to refined sugar and other such bull****. These people are ignorant.

uh-hem.. ; *disorder* .. *screwed* .. *ritalin* (*take some*).. :) :beer:
Am I the only one that just had lightbulb go off in their head?


Ooooh.....now I get it.:D :p

I have no idea if it is overdiagnosed, but lets assume it isn't. How has our society changed in the last 20 years that would cause so many kids to have ADD?

TV, video games, cell phones, computer usage etc.... These are all things that have been shown to alter brain chemistry in children. Children also don't recieve the same degree of discipline as they did in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Kids have no concept of patience, rules or boundries. They want what they want and they want it NOW. If a child is raised to have everything fast paced, instant, and no rewards for patience, then how can we expect them to sit still and pay attention for 45 minutes in math class?

I understand what you're getting at here. I agree to some extent. The thing is, there aren't necessarily more people with ADD than there were in the 50's 60's and 70's. The disorder literally was not known during those times. How can you be diagnosed with something that has not been discovered? Also, up until a certain time, it was only believed to be a childhood thing. That is, until a good number of adults who were children or teenagers in the 60's and 70's were diagnosed.

Mhhhhmmmm... Shiny..

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z269/PinkyJonJon/Giant.jpg

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm...ShiniER! :D Naturally, in the shade. Not photoshopped like the above pic. :p


http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o286/Flycrow/ride2.jpg

And WTF is with Autism? ITS JUST BEING SHY!

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm...ShiniER! :D


http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o286/Flycrow/ride2.jpg
There I fixed it for you. :p

Mhhhhmmmm... Shiny..

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z269/PinkyJonJon/Giant.jpg
Mine has discs. PWNED [lol]

Mine has discs. PWNED [lol]


On a ROAD bike?? Not very weight weenie of you! *shakes head*

And WTF is with Autism? ITS JUST BEING SHY!


Hardly. Have three nephews/nieces who have various forms of autism - the worst being the oldest boy (11) who can't communicate, prefers to stare off in space in a ball on his mother's lap - he's an aggressive biter and needs restraining at times - his other cousins, etc not afflicted with it don't like to be around him due to his violent ways.

On a ROAD bike?? Not very weight weenie of you! *shakes head*
Yes, I use my K2 Attack 1.0SE bike on roads, sometimes.

Hardly. Have three nephews/nieces who have various forms of autism - the worst being the oldest boy (11) who can't communicate, prefers to stare off in space in a ball on his mother's lap - he's an aggressive biter and needs restraining at times - his other cousins, etc not afflicted with it don't like to be around him due to his violent ways.
Sorry, it just seemed like it was just shyness. I'm truly sorry if I offended you in some way.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm...ShiniER! :D Naturally, in the shade. Not photoshopped like the above pic. :p

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o286/Flycrow/ride2.jpg

Hey. That offends me. I don't photoshop pictures. I just wave my magic pink tights and they turn shiny.

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9656/ride2copylt2.jpg

Wow that looks nice, Jon. :)

Hey. That offends me. I don't photoshop pictures. I just wave my magic pink tights and they turn shiny.

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9656/ride2copylt2.jpg
So, what did you do? Just adjust curves in photoshop?

Needs more lens flares.

Just buy cheap UV filters and stack 2-3 on a lens.

Wow that looks nice, Jon. :)
I do what I can. :)

So, what did you do? Just adjust curves in photoshop?
I duplicated the layer, sharpened the lower layer, gausian blurred the top layer to 4.0, and set the top layer to vivid light, with an opacity of 50%. :o

I understand what you're getting at here. I agree to some extent. The thing is, there aren't necessarily more people with ADD than there were in the 50's 60's and 70's. The disorder literally was not known during those times. How can you be diagnosed with something that has not been discovered? Also, up until a certain time, it was only believed to be a childhood thing. That is, until a good number of adults who were children or teenagers in the 60's and 70's were diagnosed.

I'm an adult with ADHD (inattentive type). I was diagnosed as an adult. As a child in the 80s, I was just considered to be shy, maybe a bit spacey, and definitely "lazy" because they could tell I was smart, but I never did my homework. (At that time, nobody looked for attention disorders in girls. They only knew about the hyperactive type, which is predominantly found in boys. Then there's a whole debate around societal factors and the differing expectations of girls and boys, but I digress...).

I struggled all the way through school and crashed HARD in university. I've had twenty years of unhappiness (and a lot of self blame) because of the way my brain is wired differently than average. Now that I know WHY I struggle with certain things, I can work around them instead of bashing my head repeatedly against brick walls. Working to my strengths is much healthier.

I grew up without television and eating organic foods (hippie parents). Those aren't factors in the way my brain works. When I look back in my family history, I can point to at least one person in every generation who has had the same struggles (some of whom dealt with the pressures in unhealthy ways such as alcohol use). It is definitely genetic, and probably has always been a normal part of the human range of types. In certain circumstances, being hyper-vigilant and alert to all stimuli is probably an advantage (there's a theory that ADHD-like qualities may have been useful in hunting), but it can go too far, especially as the demands in the environment change, and become a disadvantage.

My three cents (Canadian exchange rate).

Hey, let's go ride bikes!

Sorry, it just seemed like it was just shyness. I'm truly sorry if I offended you in some way.

Nah. S'ok. Just is a subject that I've been studying up on.

When I took disorders of childhood class in college (70's) Autism was a rare disorder,
I forget the percentages but it was less than 1% of the population.
Now it seems we can't turn on the TV, read a newspaper or listen to the radio
without tripping over stories about Austism.
It's disturbing (to me at least) that an entire generation seems to be
diagnosed with some type of developmental disorder (from ADD, Autism etc.)

Marty

Yes this "whole generation" of 5%

In the seventies they thought autism was caused by mothers who were emotionally "cold," and that hyperactivity was a form of "minimal brain damage." I'm glad we understand things better now.

The surge in Autism also correlates to the increased consumption of Folic acid by pregnant women. The idea is to reduce neural tube defects. It certainly does that. But, perhaps these children that would have had neural tube defects that would have been spontaneously aborted or ended up with a more severe disease end up with Autism instead or ADD.

I agree people are too quick to prescri.......Wanna ride bikes?

Yes this "whole generation" of 5%

Falkon, do you have statistics? I'm curious.

My point was that these diagnoses were rare back in the early to mid 70's and
now seem almost common place. That isn't to say I'm talking about diagnosed
cases, but by the treatment in media etc. I also think a significant number of these
diagnoses are forced by parents who either can't or won't deal with their children's behaviour
and feel it's better to have a behaviourly challenged child ( ADD or ADD with H)
than to admit they are poor parents. Its so much easier to drag the kid to the physician
and put him/her on Ritalin or similiar and blame "the disease". [/ rant]

I would guess from the stats etc. that you quoted that you work in the field?
research area maybe?

marty

I dunno during my elementary school years my teacher said I was attention deficit, demanded I be put on medication. Eventually we went to a few doctors, all of them saying that isn't the case. I was bored with class and that it was a decision that I would not pay attention and screw around, not a brain problem.


If my mom went in and asked for medication because of it, they probably would have handed it over without second thought about me actually having it.


I think its parents wanting a quick fix for their kid bouncing off the walls.

I dunno during my elementary school years my teacher said I was attention deficit, demanded I be put on medication. Eventually we went to a few doctors, all of them saying that isn't the case. I was bored with class and that it was a decision that I would not pay attention and screw around, not a brain problem.


If my mom went in and asked for medication because of it, they probably would have handed it over without second thought about me actually having it.


I think its parents wanting a quick fix for their kid bouncing off the walls.

With the exception of norepinephrine inhibitors, this would not work on someone with ADHD, as most (Ritallin, Cylert, Metadate, etc...) are based on methylphenidate or (Adderol) amphetamines which are heavy stimulants. The substances bond to chemical receptors in the brain much differently in ADD/ADHD subjects. Some can control it with discipline and effort, some like myself and my son cannot. I went from hopeless to a straight A student as soon as I was medicated. It may not have been needed in your case, but the meds have truly changed the life of many people.

Falkon, do you have statistics? I'm curious.

My point was that these diagnoses were rare back in the early to mid 70's and
now seem almost common place. That isn't to say I'm talking about diagnosed
cases, but by the treatment in media etc. I also think a significant number of these
diagnoses are forced by parents who either can't or won't deal with their children's behaviour
and feel it's better to have a behaviourly challenged child ( ADD or ADD with H)
than to admit they are poor parents. Its so much easier to drag the kid to the physician
and put him/her on Ritalin or similiar and blame "the disease". [/ rant]

I would guess from the stats etc. that you quoted that you work in the field?
research area maybe?

marty

I can as of the late 1990's that the number of diagnosed was in the range of 5% to 7%. The diagnosis literally did not exist back in the 70's. That is why there were no such cases. It wasn't until the later 1970's that the disorder was actually given a name. First it was "minor brain damage" which evolved after much research into what is known as ADHD. Much of the research was a kind of serendipity while studying alcoholic behavior. I've done some research into it. I don't work in the field, but I have considered doing a minor in psychology if I can.

I dunno during my elementary school years my teacher said I was attention deficit, demanded I be put on medication. Eventually we went to a few doctors, all of them saying that isn't the case. I was bored with class and that it was a decision that I would not pay attention and screw around, not a brain problem.


If my mom went in and asked for medication because of it, they probably would have handed it over without second thought about me actually having it.


I think its parents wanting a quick fix for their kid bouncing off the walls.

There are tests. It's really crazy. Some of them measure impulsivity, attentiveness, etc. One characteristic of most ADD and ADHD is high impusivity.

There are tests. It's really crazy. Some of them measure impulsivity, attentiveness, etc. One characteristic of most ADD and ADHD is high impusivity. Just seeing how often my school had parents clamoring for the drugs without hearing of such intensive testing as I got just makes me think of how many people didn't get evaluated like me, and are doped out just because some adults didn't like them being bored kids.

Not saying my case is always the case, I'm just saying it makes you wonder how many are properly diagnosed, along with how many people are so "depressed" (again, not saying all people are like it, but those commercials can make anyone feel like they have symptoms of depression ;)). I will agree some people DO have problems like this, in the numbers our drug market reflects? No.



Who knows, in 30 years we'll probably be looking back at this over-drug fascination like we look back on those horror stories of lobotomies being common practice for similar behavior problems...

My son William is a combo of Autism and ADD; a combination which should not be possible. His vaccinations had mercury preservatives and I am ADHD. The theory that the environment has a lot to do with the spikes of Autism and ADHD are sound in my opinion. My ADHD was helped immensly when my parents took me off prepared foods to remove presevatives, artificial flavors, and colors (especially red #40, used in orange colorings). As an adult, I have more self control thanks to martial arts training, however, I can still be triggered by artificial ingredients in food. I now have an extreme migraine rection to MSG. Oh God they are bad! Hence, I believe todays environment has a lot to do with kids issues. Believe me, I know this nerve well.

There are tests. It's really crazy. Some of them measure impulsivity, attentiveness, etc. One characteristic of most ADD and ADHD is high impusivity.

Heh. Yesterday I did the Connor's Continuous Performance Test. That's the computer one where it flashes letters up on the screen, and you have to click the mouse as quick as you can at each one EXCEPT if it's an X. The test is 15 minutes long (torture!) and I think I only managed to NOT click on that dang X once!

I understand what you're getting at here. I agree to some extent. The thing is, there aren't necessarily more people with ADD than there were in the 50's 60's and 70's. The disorder literally was not known during those times. How can you be diagnosed with something that has not been discovered? Also, up until a certain time, it was only believed to be a childhood thing. That is, until a good number of adults who were children or teenagers in the 60's and 70's were diagnosed.


Yeah, but weren't teachers allowed to beat their students back then? Even if I had ADD, I'd keep my mouth shut. Now, you can talk back to a teacher and most times nothing will happen. Just give 'em a pill instead of a hand across the face.

His vaccinations had mercury preservatives After that I stopped reading, it's a misinformed cause of a problem, being as autism isn't a symptom of mercury poisoning, and a small chemistry background helps understand the actual dosage of mercury involved. Not to mention due to parents uproars they were pulling mercury as a preservative in quite a few vaccines awhile ago and it's still happening.

Yay for giving into public opinion instead of doing some scientific research first. I've argued with my fair share of housewives about this, frankly I don't expect you to understand either (not that you're dumb, just like people can't expect me to be awesome at understanding English and memorizing people, places, and dates). Anything that supports it so far has not been peer-reviewed, usually by no-name scientists involved with no or unknown scientific communities. Most scientists insist its a genetic thing at birth. I'm thinking possibly triggered. You know, same as with the ADD "it's not my fault" attitude.


Anyway again, sometimes the drugs are required, but not on the scale of 9% of the US population. So I don't really get what your post is getting at. :P


Yeah, but weren't teachers allowed to beat their students back then? Even if I had ADD, I'd keep my mouth shut. Now, you can talk back to a teacher and most times nothing will happen. Just give 'em a pill instead of a hand across the face. And to be honest, is being a bunch of junkies really better than physical punishment?

And to be honest, is being a bunch of junkies really better than physical punishment?

Nope. Drug free here. I used to get beat.

Nope. Drug free here. I used to get beat. But was that because you'd be diagnosed ADD? Or just a troublesome child? (And to be honest, wasn't that the greatest? :p)

Being as one was replaced with another so quickly, its hard to tell if its just a different solution to the same problem, or a true medical problem on such a level as 9% of the population.

The surge in Autism also correlates to the increased consumption of Folic acid by pregnant women. The idea is to reduce neural tube defects. It certainly does that. But, perhaps these children that would have had neural tube defects that would have been spontaneously aborted or ended up with a more severe disease end up with Autism instead or ADD.I've never heard that before...any references?

I grew up without television

I would think that would help someone with ADHD

I've never heard that before...any references?


Keep in mind correlation is not causation, but do a search on www.pubmed.com and you will see a few studies.


And as to the red dye component. My brother probably would have been diagnosed ADD, but in the 80's that diagnosis didn't exist nor was there any treatment. My mother took us off of sugar and dyes and he stablized. He wasn't a bad kid, just couldn't sit still and would cry out of frustration while trying to do homework. Beatings didn't help. :rolleyes: But laying off soda and cocoa crispies did.